the last 7 plagues held for the false church [Babylon ]

[marie glen]

Rosered,  :hiya: and all..  This whole thread is very interesting! very many revealing verses.. and there were some things that really jumped out at me!

..."For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds."

..i can see her belligerently shaking her fist at heaven.. in this world, i can't help thinking the whole path the world has taken is a great offense, and is an unpleasant thing (it says, in the nostrils of God).. The world has declared "there is no God" and shakes its fist at God! But... all Praise to our Father, it's all part of His truth revealing drama.. this drama of the ages which all from the beginning are witnessing.. i find myself thinking that when she crashes, it will be a resounding crash.. from .."in one hour" .."the merchants who were made wealthy by the abundance of her charms will weep over her.." in all 7 nations which were "deceived by her sorcery".. "seduced by her harlotry"?

to, in one day.. "when the towers fall.." (Is 30:25) "the kings/politicians who were in bed with her.." as you quoted, will look upon her charred remains.. It's like what Jude wrote about Sodom and Gomorrah being examples of the 'ever' 'lasting' fire as it's been translated, we know erroneously. "The smoke" (memory? recollection?) "of it will rise up for ever and ever"..

"..the cup that she has mixed, let her drink double" ..her "golden cup full of perversions and fornication" ..a cup of the side effects of "the wine of her harlotry which made the nations drunk"... the side effects of lawlessness, disrespect, assaults, abominations, abortions, sex slave trade..

"the merchants will weep because no one buys their merchandise anymore, the luxuries, delicacies, necessities, cloths and spices and the bodies and 'souls' of men".. (male & female)

"the kings of the earth who lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament".. "all which grew rich by her".. "with violence the great city" (Godlessness) "shall be thrown down and not seen again.. no sound of a millstone will be heard in you again.." .."rejoice!! ..in her was found the blood of all slain upon earth.." [Her forehead (psyche?) is Babylon]



Eaglesway wrote,
(about Jerusalem) -- "..Babylon will come to you there. She will surround you and when she does the Lord will stir Himself from His place and the glory of the Lord will shine

Did they not climb over one another and collect tolls at the gates and tax your food and wine?

..begathered with my fathers and my mothers and my sisters and my brothers and we will sit at a table with Abraham Isaac and Jacob and we will drink the fruit of the vine, and rejoice at the wedding feast of the Bride and the Lamb. We will celebrate the Jubilee of God until all are free... ..For upon this mountain will I remove the veil that covers all the people."

Won't that be a great 'day'..!!

It sounds to me like it will be a loud collapse/destruction.. "come out of her, my people" ...lest you suffer the torments, of the results of her Godlessness? God-less-ness within any heart, surely, can only ever result in a self destructive puff of smoke..

reminded me to look deeper for the connection between the physical ark and the spiritual ark (Christ)...   there's must be a great connection... Jesus mentions the days of Noah in the same discourse as He shares (warns) about the tribulation.... (Matt 24)...

Yes, I think the ark of Noah and the secret place of the most high are the same. Noah's ark was the secret place for him and his family in his time.

What will it be in ours? "Today if you hear His voice...."

No man knows the day or the hour.....

Blessed is that servant whom the Lord finds so doing when He comes......

Come my children, hide in your rooms for a awhile, till my wrath is spent and the indignation is finished :o)

:gsmile: :mthumbsup: ..amen, hide in Him..

[anna274]

Thanks eaglesway for taking the time to share so many Scriptures... and of course, I will print your entire post.  Of particular interest was Isaiah 54:7-14...I usually read all scripture verses quoted in context and to my great, great delight Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee---

reminded me to look deeper for the connection between the physical ark and the spiritual ark (Christ)...   there's must be a great connection... Jesus mentions the days of Noah in the same discourse as He shares (warns) about the tribulation.... (Matt 24)...

Yes, I think the ark of Noah and the secret place of the most high are the same. Noah's ark was the secret place for him and his family in his time.

What will it be in ours? "Today if you hear His voice...."

No man knows the day or the hour.....

Blessed is that servant whom the Lord finds so doing when He comes......

Come my children, hide in your rooms for a awhile, till my wrath is spent and the indignation is finished :o)

Oh my, I'm getting ready for a short vacation away from my computer, but decided to do a final check of recent posts and found this one of yours... and I am so happy I did...  you have given me  a "connection" that I would very probably never have even considered had YOU not shared this "connection"... I value your input because I find it always Scripturally sound. 

I very carefully filed your post  under NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION... after my vacation, that is.

[marie glen]

..have a great vacation! :hiya: (you're a very gracious lady i have seen, in your posts)



..I came back to say.. Babylon, to me is all untruth.. so to me, parts of the Church are in there..

[eaglesway]

Have a Happy Holiday!  :laughing7:

[marie glen]

"come OUT of her my people.."

...because it will be a resounding crash of mankind's ways and empire, I agree, it's vitally important that believers ("our little sister which has no breasts" / sorry i don't usually talk like that!) vitally important they come out of babylon for they have become babylon.. even tho she rides on the beast's back right now, it's his ten horns which will burn and devour her and her crash will not be pleasant. May we pray more and more (believers in this case) look up and see the rays of God's affection and enter instead his ark of calm and peace and abide there..

"come OUT of her my people.."

[marie glen]

P.S - "in one day her (the) plagues will come"

[eaglesway]

2Pe 3:8
(8)  But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

[marie glen]

 :sigh: I find whenever someone mentions the last book of the Bible, so many assume (#1) the one making mention is scared and nervous about it, (#2) is speaking of it as being imminent, or (#3) is hysterical. Yet the book itself says "blessed the ones who read, and the ones who hear" (in all humility i can't help but think this may imply someone is speaking it, since to many it is a closed and sealed book, yet He does unseal it as the days approach even if they be a ways off in the distance, according to man's seeing of time "to Him a thousand yrs is as a day" - i may not see it as imminent, but..)

I say this next as intro, I don't deny that the Word and life is allegory (with spiritual meaning that lasts always, so superior to the literal) but if His crucifixion and resurrection is literal, and history was literal, why would future and prophecy be only allegory? And if it were, where do we draw the line as to what actually occurred and what didn't? And why would He only provide prophecy for a part of time, and none pertaining to the last almost 2000 years..?

..a 1000 years to Him is "like" a day.. Please let me humbly mention these following verses,

"When you" (individual?) "see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.." .."when you" (individual?) "see the abomination which desolates, set-up" ..

"end of the age" - after 70a.d. Israel was not for almost 2000 yrs - "when you see the fig tree blossom" - (and surely there will be an actual end of this increasingly wicked and Godless age of very modern man?? The modern western civilization since Christ ascended, now called post Christian, implying a falling away.)

"watch therefor"
"give them food in due season"
"shall not live by bread alone but by every, word of God"
"what God speaks to you in private, speak from the rooftops"
"if the watchman see the sword coming and not give warning.."
"there comes a day when no man can work" and "a dirth of the Word".

Rev chapters 17 and 18 (whole) describe exactly what to come out of.. that they not suffer her plagues.. false religion may be part of her, that crashes, but not the total.. To me, I can't help but think that the idea that our loving Father will condemn to horror those who believe in Him, but have some doctrinal points wrong.. is almost as illogical as the blasphemy called 'hell'. I believe God has repeatedly told me there cometh a crash (the fall of her will be great) and a collapse of man's modern world (which where we are now) is going global. "In the day when the towers fall.." Fall where? Into the streets. "Come out". "There comes a day when no man can work" and "a dirth of the Word". Imo, I see no reason to delay communicating Bible prophecy, and I also think the more of His own who understand it the (vastly?) better. :gsmile:

Are you of the belief this world system will endure, because it will be redeemed by the Lord's people?

[mplsfitter539]

Marie you said, Are you of the belief this world system will endure, because it will be redeemed by the Lord's people?
After giving this some serious thought this makes the most sense of all things considered to this point. As the Sons of God come to life at the end of this age they (sons of God) will begin to transform through Christ those whom they already are in contact with. IMO you can sum up your future work in the kingdom of God beginning with yourself and then those on first level of contact. I guess that is to say you have a part in making the nest that you must sleep in (rest). Focus on God's goals, the things God is focused on, and it just gets clearer every day. :banana:

[eaglesway]

:sigh: I find whenever someone mentions the last book of the Bible, so many assume (#1) the one making mention is scared and nervous about it, (#2) is speaking of it as being imminent, or (#3) is hysterical. Yet the book itself says "blessed the ones who read, and the ones who hear" (in all humility i can't help but think this may imply someone is speaking it, since to many it is a closed and sealed book, yet He does unseal it as the days approach even if they be a ways off in the distance, according to man's seeing of time "to Him a thousand yrs is as a day" - i may not see it as imminent, but..)

I say this next as intro, I don't deny that the Word and life is allegory (with spiritual meaning that lasts always, so superior to the literal) but if His crucifixion and resurrection is literal, and history was literal, why would future and prophecy be only allegory? And if it were, where do we draw the line as to what actually occurred and what didn't? And why would He only provide prophecy for a part of time, and none pertaining to the last almost 2000 years..?

..a 1000 years to Him is "like" a day.. Please let me humbly mention these following verses,

"When you" (individual?) "see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.." .."when you" (individual?) "see the abomination which desolates, set-up" ..

"end of the age" - after 70a.d. Israel was not for almost 2000 yrs - "when you see the fig tree blossom" - (and surely there will be an actual end of this increasingly wicked and Godless age of very modern man?? The modern western civilization since Christ ascended, now called post Christian, implying a falling away.)

"watch therefor"
"give them food in due season"
"shall not live by bread alone but by every, word of God"
"what God speaks to you in private, speak from the rooftops"
"if the watchman see the sword coming and not give warning.."
"there comes a day when no man can work" and "a dirth of the Word".

Rev chapters 17 and 18 (whole) describe exactly what to come out of.. that they not suffer her plagues.. false religion may be part of her, that crashes, but not the total.. To me, I can't help but think that the idea that our loving Father will condemn to horror those who believe in Him, but have some doctrinal points wrong.. is almost as illogical as the blasphemy called 'hell'. I believe God has repeatedly told me there cometh a crash (the fall of her will be great) and a collapse of man's modern world (which where we are now) is going global. "In the day when the towers fall.." Fall where? Into the streets. "Come out". "There comes a day when no man can work" and "a dirth of the Word". Imo, I see no reason to delay communicating Bible prophecy, and I also think the more of His own who understand it the (vastly?) better. :gsmile:

Are you of the belief this world system will endure, because it will be redeemed by the Lord's people?

I agree with most that :o) Except perhaps, I think Peter wasn't saying "like". I think he was saying "as".

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.(NKJV)

(Another one of those sticky little translation issues I guess :o)




But he was referencing TIME, I agree with that, and that WE SHOULD BE PATIENT- because God looks at time from the inside out- we look from the outside in. We see the skin of the sphere- He dwells at the core and, imo, sees EVERY MOMENT at once.

But don't get me wrong. i am not a preterist. I believe in the historical fulfillment of the end times prophecies. The problem I see is this,
just to explain how I "see" and "hear" these things.........

As one example.....

John spoke of "anti-Christs" that are already in the world.

We miss out on "the principle of anti-christ" because we are looking for some anti-christ in the future. Every president for the last 50 years has been somebodies "anti-Christ", even tho the scriptures CLEARLY state in SEVERAL PLACES(for a literalist/historical view) that he will come with false signs and wonders, works of satanic power and be accompnanied by his own "false prophet".

Meanwhile, the spirit of anti-Christ is working in our midst EVRYDAY and we dont see it, because we have missed the fact that the MAJORITY of texts referencing eschatology are ACTIVE IN THE NOW and have been since they were written. As I have said before, IMO John's Revelation is written to the churches. it is fundamentally about the church age and a revelation of God "coming down out of the heavens adorned in white linen as a Bride for her Bridegroom". The church age is a historical dispensation but, as far as where we are in it historically, "no man knows the day or the hour". The disciples asked Jesus, "When is the kingdom gonna come", He replied(prphse)- "It is not for you to kno the times that are within the Father's purvview, you go wait in Jerusalem until you be endued with power from on high". They were intent upon "the when", Jesus was intent upon "THE NOW".

The same principle, or "example" applies to Babylon or the New Jerusalem and a dozen other time transcendant 'spiritual icons' that have historical implications(beginnings, periodic manifestations and endings)- we have to recognize them and respond to them in the NOW, TODAY. IMO that is primary. The rest is secondary. We know the "season" seems upon us. The "hour" seems late. But we ought not be distrated into it, we ought to be waiting upon the Lord, hidden in the secret place, lanterns full, with extra vessels of oil.

Fact is, most "literalists" don't care what the word literally says if it interferes with whatever they are currently excited about from their present perspective.

IMO, we are to be seeking the Lord, preparing to be "anointed" to do His works in the earth- not worrying about which of the latest geo-political developements is the next or last trumpet or bowl. WE DO PAY ATTENTION to events in the world around us, but IMO, it is a distraction as a CORE FOCUS from our CORE MISSION which is to walk with Christ as ministers of reconciliation IN OUR GENERATION. To do that we have to listen to....."Today if you hear His voice" and....."Let the one who has ears to hear HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT IS SAYING TO THE CHURCHES and....and speaking with His voice, "the Spirit and the Bride SAY COME".

For instance, for a literalist, the antiChrist of Daniel, John and Paul is a sorcerer. He does not have the natural love for a woman. He comes to power through a coup or some such  takeover of a government that is most likely European. He takes over the holy land and sets himself up to be worshipped in the temple. He institutes the mark of the beast, he exalts himself above every God and so-called God........   No one as yet comes close, at least I would say since Hitler, who was a proto type "antichrist" in germany as a political and spiritual leadr- but a toddler compared to what the real "anti-Christ will be at the time of the end(IMO). A deceiver so slick, Jesus warns that "EVEN THE VERY ELECT COULD BE DECEIVED". People want to say this is lukewarm Christians and such. I think Jesus meant JUST WHAT HE SAID> EVEN THE VERY ELECT. So I agree with you that it is not as "imminent", in the historical sense as some think BUT, IT IS TOTALLY IMMINENT IN OUR GENERATION IN THE CHURCH so I tend to focus on the broader SPIRITUAL REVELATIONS BEING SPOKEN NOW to us as believers as opposed to dancing around the fires of speculation that arise after every major sign in the earth or the heavens.

If we hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches NOW, TODAY we will be ready for ANYTHING. If we do not hear what the SPIRT IS SAYING to the churches TODAY- we will not be prepared, EVEN IF WE SHOULD HEAR THE CRY- THE BRIDEGROOM COMES.
EVEN IF HE WERE TO TELL US THE DAY AND THE HOUR- which of course, He won't :o)

Because the lesson is to abide in Christ and walk in the Spirit moment by moment, taking no thought for tomoro. living as the sparrow, sowinf trust and reaping peace-----Every one in the world is running to and fro and knowledge is increasing exponentially, but to to us, and through us, God is saying, "Be still and kno that I am God".


1 God is our refuge and strength,
    an ever-present help in trouble.
2 Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way
    and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea,
3 though its waters roar and foam
    and the mountains quake with their surging.[c]


4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God,
    the holy place where the Most High dwells.
5 God is within her, she will not fall;
    God will help her at break of day.
6 Nations are in uproar, kingdoms fall;
    he lifts his voice, the earth melts.


7 The Lord Almighty is with us;
    the God of Jacob is our fortress.


8 Come and see what the Lord has done,
    the desolations he has brought on the earth.
9 He makes wars cease
    to the ends of the earth.
He breaks the bow and shatters the spear;
    he burns the shields[d] with fire.
10 He says, "Be still, and know that I am God;
    I will be exalted among the nations,
    I will be exalted in the earth."


11 The Lord Almighty is with us;
    the God of Jacob is our fortress.

[eaglesway]

Marie you said, Are you of the belief this world system will endure, because it will be redeemed by the Lord's people?
After giving this some serious thought this makes the most sense of all things considered to this point. As the Sons of God come to life at the end of this age they (sons of God) will begin to transform through Christ those whom they already are in contact with. IMO you can sum up your future work in the kingdom of God beginning with yourself and then those on first level of contact. I guess that is to say you have a part in making the nest that you must sleep in (rest). Focus on God's goals, the things God is focused on, and it just gets clearer every day. :banana:

You said it better faster LOLOL

[rosered]

  I am just going to add this as a consideration   only ,
 
and what   thoughts have come up   thinking and pondering this part of the "rest in the Lord " as a Day and 1000 years  reign of Christ 

  for me Jesus has said , its so simple a child could understand it , and to me thats ' the little child  of innocence "   trusting in the Lords work  , a perfect and complete work at that . with no  human  hands  at all involved  nor human minds can understand the work and glory of God  , for the carnal mind is the emnity against the Spirit  , and the Word and Spirit of God is what does  everything  in His plan  to the perfect END , and the End is salvation to all  ,  by the JESUS CHRIST [corperatly[the gathering  to ONE   ]     
I believe Daniels   entering  rest  was going on into   the Body of Christ   as Christ [meaning annointed]   Jesus  meaning salvation of YAH           Daniel  is no longer doing the works but the LORD IS  ,  THIS DAY [DAY OF THE LORD ]  is the 1000  years
   for me its clues were     that Adam lived 930 years  , works of  man and  Babylon works 70 years of  captivity    , they both equa= l 1000  years , being works of mans  hands against the WORD and Spirit of the Living God

    many will not agree  with  this and thats fine , but its something so sweet and simple  and  I can see truth in it , and its  a comfort for me to know that  the gathering and "rest "  is  going on right now   as the Lord gathers into Himself    those whom have entered His rest  , Jesus confirms this with His own Words Come all you  who are heavy ladden and I will give you rest from your souls [lives ]   , just consider it , for I have and it gives  great peace   

[redhotmagma]

I started typing out a response but erased it, probably because I knew yours would pretty much embody mine EW :laughing7:  I agree with most of what you wrote there. 

The only thing I disagree with is that I don't think there will be a literal anti-christ singular.  I personally see it as my natural self. 

[eaglesway]

I see that Daniels, Habbakuks, Zechariahs, Jeremiahs,Exekiels etc., prophecies(coming of Christ, replacement of Levititcal priests by the sons of Zadok, 70 years captivity, restoration of Israel by Cyrus, etc.) were fulfilled literally and spiritually. I think there is a literal and spiritual fulfillment to most of these things. Nebuchadnezars dream  of the statue with the golden head, has been, and still is, being literally being fulfilled- and spiritually being fulfilled as well- the little stone is still rollin up the world till all be fulfilled :o).....
so I apply that rule through out the scriptures and it works for me. I just cant see the figure Paul speaks of  when he says, "the day of the Lord will not come until the son of lawlessness is manifested", and as coming "with all deceiving signs and wonders of the devil" - as being me, since we were all born as adversaries in Adam, and few if any of us have done those things, even though those "principles" and "spirits" have worked in most of us at one time or another.

:2c:

[sheila]

Beauty for ashes......the subsequent fall of Babylon in it's reduction to ashes...precludes the coming Beauty of God.

   Isaaih 61;  the yEAR OF THE lORD'S FAVOUR......THE ANOINTING..TO BIND UP THE BROKEN-HEARTED

   TO PROCLAIM FREEDOM FOR THE CAPTIVES[IN BABYLON BONDAGE] AND RELEASE FROM DARKNESS FOR THE

   PRISONERS..TO PROCLAIM THE YEAR OF THE LORD'S FAVOUR,AND THE DAY OF VENEGEANCE OF OUR GOD

  TO COMFORT ALL WHO MOURN,AND PROVIDE FOR ALL WHO GREIVE IN ZION


   TO BESTOW ON THEM A CROWN OF BEAUTY INSTEAD OF ASHES,THE OIL OF GLADNESS INSTEAD OF

MOURNING,A GARMENT OF PRAISE INSTEAD A SPIRIT OF DEPAIR


   IT IS THE LORD TEARING DOWN AND PLANTING...THE WORK OF HIS HANDS...THAT WILL RESULT IN A GARMENT

OF PRAISE..INSTAED OFTHE  DESPAIR OF ALL THE ATROCITIES DONE IN THE NAME OF GOD..BY MEN OF

LALWLESSNESS AND SIN...........

  THE WHOLE CREATIONS GROANING FOR THE REVEALING OF THESE 'SONS' OF  GOD...THE PLANTING OF

HIS HANDS..EVEN THE TREE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE RIVER ..THAT LEAVES ARE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS

AND BEARS FRUIT EVERY MONTH.  THE BUDDING OF THE LEAVES OF THE TOL IS FOR THE HEALING OF THE NTIONS

THE FRUITAGE OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT TO SUSTAIN ETERNAL LIFE...DOES NOT FAIL TO RESULT IN PRAISE OF

GOD AS A GARMENT OF GLORY.  THERE IS NO DEATH IN THE WATERS OF LIFE..NO STREAM BUBBLING FORTH

  THE BITTER AND SWEET..SUCH AS THE CONDEMNATION OF MEN AND PRAISE OF GOD OUT OF THE

SAME MOUTH. THE SWEET BRANCH IN THE BITTER WATERS REMOVES THE CURSE OF 'DEATH' IN THE POT

OF THE COMPANY OF PROPHETS.

  THERE IS NO LIARS PIRIT OF ABOMINATION IN THE HOLY CITY THAT DESOLATES THE TEMPLE[MAN] OF GOD

THERE IS THE LIGHT ND THE OIL SHINING IN A PLACE OF FORMER DARKNESS. GOD AND THE LAMB  IS IN HER

   THE SALVATION OF MAN IS THE GLORY OF GOD..THAT MAN SHOULD BEAR HIS IMAGE.......THAT THE

WHOLE CREATION SHOULD NO LONGER GROAN..BUT OFFER UP PRAISE UNTO HIM WITH GREAT JOY,AS

A GARMENT OF PRAISE

    zEPH 3;20 jEREMIAH 29;14.....AT THAT TIME I WILL BRING YOU HOME......THE SEEKING OF A DWELLING PLACE IN

HIM[O'IMMANUEL] A CITY NOT BUILT BY HUMAN HANDS..PLACE PREPARED..THE WORK OF HIS HANDS..JUST

AS THE STONE NOT MADE OF HUMAN HANDS DESTROYED THAT WHICH NEED BE...THAT BEAUTY MAY BESTOWED

INSTEAD OF ASHES. ALL TO THE GLORY AND PRAISE OF HIS NAME

[mplsfitter539]

redhotmagma, you said I don't think there will be a literal anti-christ singular.  I personally see it as my natural self.
This is how I see it also. You have to take Revelation personal to a point where it is speaking directly to you.  :banana:

[marie glen]

I don't think I can continue on here.. the thinking to me makes no sense.. everything in the Bible is me..? that's cancelling out what God is doing.. The whole human race (and the angels are watching) is chewing upon the knowing of good from evil.. and it's not just in our minds.. I have to think many are turning away from here with only allegory and not literal understanding of God's Word. And there's no conversation.. it's just "you're wrong, and this is how you're wrong".

I'm going to post one more thing, a study.. please if anyone will, please read it and consider. Possibly without the preconceived.. Keep in mind, it's not that I believe the manchild theory is wrong, I just think the interpretation is from the wrong place in the scriptures.. I was thinking for a short while that we could communicate and see if there was allegorical/within interpretation plus literal world and world stage interpretation.. but I'm thinking probably not.. did anyone reread rev chapters 17 and 18?? What about the new heavens and the new earth? is that only within also? I suppose it's all personal interpretation.. relative.. why all the visions of revelation? why not just say what God's Spirit was (supposedly) saying? Didn't seem to have much trouble elsewhere..  :dontknow:  :eek:

[rosered]

I don't think I can continue on here.. the thinking to me makes no sense.. everything in the Bible is me..? that's cancelling out what God is doing.. The whole human race (and the angels are watching) is chewing upon the knowing of good from evil.. and it's not just in our minds.. I have to think many are turning away from here with only allegory and not literal understanding of God's Word. And there's no conversation.. it's just "you're wrong, and this is how you're wrong".

I'm going to post one more thing, a study.. please if anyone will, please read it and consider. Possibly without the preconceived.. Keep in mind, it's not that I believe the manchild theory is wrong, I just think the interpretation is from the wrong place in the scriptures.. I was thinking for a short while that we could communicate and see if there was allegorical/within interpretation plus literal world and world stage interpretation.. but I'm thinking probably not.. did anyone reread rev chapters 17 and 18?? What about the new heavens and the new earth? is that only within also? I suppose it's all personal interpretation.. relative.. why all the visions of revelation? why not just say what God's Spirit was (supposedly) saying? Didn't seem to have much trouble elsewhere..  :dontknow:  :eek:

Hi Marie
  not everything in the bible is me 
its   everything in the Bible is the GLORY of God  being revealed     the Spirit and Truth   in the earth[ mankind ]

  I certainly will consider you new post
  Blessings

[marie glen]

..thank-you

[rosered]

Amen Sista Shelia , its all about the Glory of GOD    revealed in the earth

and the new heavens and earth shall glorify  His Holy Name  :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

redhotmagma, you said I don't think there will be a literal anti-christ singular.  I personally see it as my natural self.
This is how I see it also. You have to take Revelation personal to a point where it is speaking directly to you.  :banana:

Perhaps, but not to the point of canceling out every other voice.

The problem is poles and opposites. The word is clearly full of types and shadows that speak to our hearts where we are inside.

A parable is different than a proverb but they both have there place.

An exhortation is different than a mystery- but they both have their place.

Why pit one against the other? They are two sides of one coin!

How can anyone eliminate the historical voice of the scripture!

How can anyone eliminate the literal voice of the scripture!

How can anyone eliminate the types and shadows of the scripture, or the apocalpyse(revelation) and musterion(mystery)!

Really i don't get it. It is not either/or, it is all of the above- and if it isnt, you may be missing something you really need.

[rosered]

  Thanks Bro John    :HeartThrob: , 
I needed that too  :ty:    awesome   truths

[eaglesway]

YW, Rosered :o)

[mplsfitter539]

redhotmagma, you said I don't think there will be a literal anti-christ singular.  I personally see it as my natural self.
This is how I see it also. You have to take Revelation personal to a point where it is speaking directly to you.  :banana:

Perhaps, but not to the point of canceling out every other voice.

The problem is poles and opposites. The word is clearly full of types and shadows that speak to our hearts where we are inside.

A parable is different than a proverb but they both have there place.

An exhortation is different than a mystery- but they both have their place.

Why pit one against the other? They are two sides of one coin!

How can anyone eliminate the historical voice of the scripture!

How can anyone eliminate the literal voice of the scripture!

How can anyone eliminate the types and shadows of the scripture, or the apocalpyse(revelation) and musterion(mystery)!

Really i don't get it. It is not either/or, it is all of the above- and if it isnt, you may be missing something you really need.

All I want to say in my own defense is that although I do believe most things are allegorical that is not to say that I believe it is any certain percentage of literal vs allegorical. As far as mysteries go I believe there are very few mysteries left unsolved at this point. I would compare it to the parable of the rich man and Lazarus which is the allegory of the Jew (rich man) vs Gentile (Lazarus).  Eaglesway made a good point so I am fixing my post. Many mysteries have already been reveled and I agree there are way more left unsolved.  :banana:

[eaglesway]

There are sooooo many mysteries my friend :o)  The scriptures are oracles, living words, manifaceted and always new.

And there is no need to defend yourself, we have various opinions and we are just sharing them with one another. I respect your opinion, tho we may disagree at points along the way. Peace. ;o)