What gives us the right to judge?

[Harmony]

I haven't been able to locate the verse, but somewhere in the bible, Paul says 'all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable'.

I'd love it if someone could find that verse for me....I've been looking on biblegateway, but so far, no luck....but I KNOW it's there somewhere!

I've been following the thread about homosexuality, and have been trying to make sense of it all.  For me, the bottom line is WHY do we feel the need to judge anyone for anything?

We were all born with the seeds of sin, and not one of us can boast of being 'better than' anyone else.

But I have found in several forums (different sites) that christians are notorious for bashing gays. 

Even the sentiment of 'love the sinner, but not the sin' has the sting of 'bible bullets'....still judging....I'm better than you, I can offer you love, but not accept who you are.

We are so much 'better' than 'them', that we can pat them on the head and say 'there, there...' 

How very arrogant!

Take a look at the beam in our own eyes before judging another.  No takers?

I'm a little bit sorry for posting this, because I don't normally get involved in these sort of discussions, because they inevitably end up the same way.....people posting all the bible verses that support their particular view....and somehow forgetting the verse that says 'love thy neighbor'....

[lomarah]

1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.

Loved your post Harmony.  :HeartThrob:  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[onlytruth]

I totally agree...I beleive we are all going through a heart change,so we can love as God does, it just can be a rough ride....

[misszoolander]

Our gay brothers and sisters are much loved by the Lord  :HeartThrob:

The Potter has a purpose for everything he makes. We are called to assess our own sin, but it is not our place to judge others.
The same goes with "saving" people, it is not us that saves people, it is God, we merely bear his witness.
I have come to believe that oppressive Christians that take it upon themselves to condemn, harass and bully gays do so because they feel obliged too. They feel they HAVE too, they feel that with the way the world is going, things are totally out of Gods control, so therefore it is time to take matters into their own hands.

God does not need defending, he is Lord. He defends us, he is for us, ahead of us, with us. He doesn't depend on us and the choices we make to try and save people, he uses us yes, but we must not take credit for any good we do, because that is God working through us, for his own purpose.

I've come to realize how precious people are to God. So, so, so utterly precious. We are so, so, so blessed that he choose us to be the gem of his creation. There is not one person on this earth that the Lord would not die for, when this sinks into your mind one can just barley comprehend the wonder of God, I am in awe of his ways.  :HeartThrob:

[Colleen]

And then there's the verse in 1cor 6:2 that says dont you know that the saints are going to judge the world. Can you not then judge the simplest matters. It is all very confusing to me.

[lomarah]

Actually while we're on the topic of judging and in light of the other new confession thread, here is a confession about me regarding judging - for a very long time I have made the mistake of judging people for judging people. Ha!!! Ironically hypocritical hey?!? The Lord has been setting me free from this, praise His name.

And I think you hit the nail on the head MissZ, people (mainly Christians) judge because they think they need to or that they have been called to. We each have ONE master and who are we to judge another mans servant? His Master is able to make him stand - and He will!!

[lomarah]

Colleen we will be judging rightly, being able to see what to condemn (evil spirits/sin) and what to give mercy to (men!). This is my understanding.  :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

yes,and for this reason..we were to judge nothing before the appointed time.  [the man of lawlessness

being revealed..whom the Lord would do away with the breath of His coming.

  and also that is why He commanded to the angels to let the wheat and tares grow togather until

  harvest,lest by pulling up tares they uproot the wheat.  In this case a tare would be an evil spirit

  in the feild with a wheat[all men saved,as wheat]  God removes the tares..an viola' a man free of allsin.



 

[misszoolander]

Actually while we're on the topic of judging and in light of the other new confession thread, here is a confession about me regarding judging - for a very long time I have made the mistake of judging people for judging people. Ha!!! Ironically hypocritical hey?!? The Lord has been setting me free from this, praise His name.

And I think you hit the nail on the head MissZ, people (mainly Christians) judge because they think they need to or that they have been called to. We each have ONE master and who are we to judge another mans servant? His Master is able to make him stand - and He will!!

I confess, I judge fundamentalists more so then gays, I am guilty of this too  :HeartThrob:

[Colleen]

Thanks lomorah and Sheila. That's helpful.

[jabcat]

We all have our understanding, but I personally disagree that there necessarily has to be arrogance involved in attempting to understand the scriptures, and share them with ourselves (because we all need it) and with others.  Paul called it speaking the truth in love.  The summary of that in our current vernacular is "love the sinner, hate the sin".  IMO, that includes within ourselves - not just in others.

IMO, it's called balance, or more scripturally, attempting to understand and share the whole counsel of God - not erring either way.  Not condemning and being unkind, but still having the willingness to say "as I understand, here's what the scriptures say about it.  Take it to God for His help and understanding".  I believe God wants believers to be aware of what is sin and how the ecclesia is to function, i.e., judge behavior, but not the person, in condemnation.  We've supposed to approach all things with the hope of reconciliation.   I can't judge anyone - I'm not qualified, and I have my own sin.   But I believe we're to know right and wrong, and with God's help and empowerment, be salt/savor and light within a world that's quickly sliding into moral relativity and "every man doing what's right in his own eyes". 

So I believe it's indeed very scripturally sound to attempt to share what the scriptures say, even if someone doesn't like it or it's not PC.   I get the feeling many these days would like for the Bible to just be silent, except for verses on love and things that encourage and make us feel good about ourselves and others.  Many "churches" are growing, as peoples' ears are tickled/many won't "endure sound doctrine".  I heard today the Unitarian Universalists have almost doubled in membership the past 10 years.  They also have a segment of their "church" that is pushing for not only homosexual marriage, but of multiple people - 3,4, whatever - multiples of males and females and sexual orientation together - all "married".

Some day somebody will need to get after the Apostle Paul for all that preachin' against sin he did, and for turning the one over to satan due to his unrepentant, persistent sin.  Or for his saying a believer shouldn't even eat [fellowship] with such a one.   :wink1:

[Colleen]

What is OP?

[jabcat]

Opening Post that starts the thread.  Sorry.  :)

[Lazarus Short]

And then there's the verse in 1cor 6:2 that says dont you know that the saints are going to judge the world. Can you not then judge the simplest matters. It is all very confusing to me.

On the other side of the veil, the saints will be glorified:  "We will be like Him."  They will then be equipped to judge rightly.

[jabcat]

having the willingness to say "as I understand, here's what the scriptures say about it.  Take it to God for His help and understanding". 

I certainly do have sins.  I don't do the following, but for example;  If I'm getting drunk every night and beating on my wife, and any one of us as fellow believer know about it.  Do I need you to say, "it's OK James, don't worry about it.  God understands, no big deal.  I sure do love you brother"?   Or do I need you to kindly [in love] say to me "James, will you look with me at what the scriptures say about that, and let me pray with you about it?  We all fail and have sin, but God can help us overcome it"?

[jabcat]

I understand the "can't you judge the simple matters" to be about the here and now.  Paul was talking about not taking things to secular authorities about disputes within the ecclesia.  I believe he's saying, again, to not judge or condemn a PERSON, but to address situations with wisdom and discernment - and yes, always in love, with the goal of reconciliation.   :2c:

And then I believe he also talked about future judging as a couple others mentioned, i.e., ruling and reigning with Christ - when we're immortal and gifted with the ability to judge even more comprehensively than now.  Not sure exactly what that's going to look like though, or what the tasks will be.   :dontknow:   Another  :2c:.

Blessings, love, grace.

[misszoolander]

  :iagree: Jab,  :Peace2:

I hope I don't come across airy fairy with no respect for the scriptures on these boards, rereading some of my posts I kinda thought... well Sarah you sound a bit cheesy! LOL  :rolllol:

[jabcat]

  :iagree: Jab,  :Peace2:

I hope I don't come across airy fairy with no respect for the scriptures on these boards, rereading some of my posts I kinda thought... well Sarah you sound a bit cheesy! LOL  :rolllol:

:laugh:    :happyclap:

[sheila]

   well..we will be educated without interference of negative contrast  'gumming' us up.  we will also 'watch'

  or observe interaction with men and the evil spirits on earth..for we will be able to see what we can not now

  we will also be able to hear how they command and condition men into sinful acts.

  we will observe how they plan and lay traps to ensnare men,men being entirely unaware. we will watch

how they manipulate men's minds and bodies and  then we will be able to make a just judgement

of just who the 'man of sin" is .

   'those who see you stare at you..they ponder your fate,'is this the man who shook the earth,and

made kingdoms tremble,the man who made the world a desert and overthrew it's cities

and would not let his captives go home?..... the offspring of the wicked will never be mentioned again"

[jabcat]

   well..we will be educated without interference of negative contrast  'gumming' us up.  we will also 'watch'

  or observe interaction with men and the evil spirits on earth..for we will be able to see what we can not now

  we will also be able to hear how they command and condition men into sinful acts.

  we will observe how they plan and lay traps to ensnare men,men being entirely unaware. we will watch

how they manipulate men's minds and bodies and  then we will be able to make a just judgement

of just who the 'man of sin" is .

   'those who see you stare at you..they ponder your fate,'is this the man who shook the earth,and

made kingdoms tremble,the man who made the world a desert and overthrew it's cities

and would not let his captives go home?..... the offspring of the wicked will never be mentioned again"

:2thumbs:    :gimmefive:

[ded2daworld]

 IMO, Is the phrasing correct? WHAT give us the right? Technically, a WHAT can not empower us or give us permission. Since there is one judge, God, it is rather, Who gave us the right to judge? If we have that right, it's because he has given it to us to act on his behalf Some are so caught up in their sin that they have no idea they are even doing wrong. There are theives, pedophiles and murderers that think they have done nothing wrong. If society tells people they aren't doing anything wrong and they feel they aren't doing anything wrong, then how else will they know that God says it's wrong (which means it IS wrong) unless they are told or someone lets them know? It is always the act and not the person. When I had employees that screwed up, I didn't berate their personal life or the kind of person they were. That wouldn't have changed anything. I had to discuss the particular act or actions to get any results. In a way, same with God. If you're told you are doing something wrong and don't correct it and no one else will take the blame for you.
You will get "fired" in the consuming fire of our God to come out cleansed. :2c:

[CHB]

And Jab if you were doing that to your wife I would do more than just take you aside and say, "Now brother..." LOL. The example you gave is not a fair comparison at all.

Why would you feel the need to correct Jab for beating his wife and getting drunk and not feel the need to correct gays? Isn't one sin just as bad as the other?

By the way Jab I feel the same way as you do about this.

CHB

[lomarah]

NO!!! LOL

If someone is beating their wife it needs to be dealt with because they are putting that life at risk/harming someone else! If I had to run around correcting everyone because of their sin all the time I would have no time left for anything else. Amen??

[lomarah]

Seriously??? Am I the only one who finds this crazy???

[lomarah]

And for the record I didn't mean I would be correcting Jab. I meant I would be calling the police, getting his wife out of that situation.

AND I took down my previous post because I figured it would ruffle some feathers. Apparently you got to it first CHB lol. But the gist of it is, we need to be led by the Spirit when it comes to "correcting", or anything for that matter.  :2c: