book of Revelation?

[dajomaco]

I have heard your prayer; I have seen your tears. Look, I will heal you.

[redhotmagma]

VB   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[MLCCP]

well. I will stand up for the Book of Revelations..even though it mean I am drama seeking,

or have an agenda or seek pie in the sky.  Red herrings,strawman arguments and slippery slopes.

all.....only the word of God is the word of God.  what? remove the book of Revelation section

next?

   People have been twisting scripture for their own agenda from the beginning..and the

  book of revelations is no different.  But, that does not invalidate the scriptures,as the

  word of God..inspiried of the Holy spirit.

I don't think that's the issue sheila.  We are to divide the word.  Even Peter put limits on which parts of Paul's writings should be seen as scripture.  That tells me, the other parts are not.  So, some are important, and it is up to us to divide it properly.

Would you be kind enough to give the verse where Peter questions some of Paul's writings as Scripture?

I know Peter said some of Paul's writings are hard to understand, but that is a far cry from questioning whether it should be Scripture or not.

[VineBranch]

Would you be kind enough to give the verse where Peter questions some of Paul's writings as Scripture?
I know Peter said some of Paul's writings are hard to understand, but that is a far cry from questioning whether it should be Scripture or not.

Hi ML.  Please refer to:

                Re: book of Revelation?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2013, 07:20:40 AM »

[ded2daworld]

just as the Bible says "all scripture is beneficial" BUT, is there a single person ever that benefitted from memorizing the scriptures in numbers that tell how many people did such and such or were such and such?

[VineBranch]

just as the Bible says "all scripture is beneficial" BUT, is there a single person ever that benefitted from memorizing the scriptures in numbers that tell how many people did such and such or were such and such?

Too true.  I tried, when I was a lot younger, and still get part of the headache when I try to remember doing it.  Now I'm okay with saying ... a bunch of folk went and they came back with a bunch of stuff.  Pretty scriptural huh?   :laugh:

God is now teaching me that maybe it's time to stop sweating all the words, all the time.  I have no idea where this is leading:  pst ... it's a bit scary!!  :Pray:

[MLCCP]

Would you be kind enough to give the verse where Peter questions some of Paul's writings as Scripture?
I know Peter said some of Paul's writings are hard to understand, but that is a far cry from questioning whether it should be Scripture or not.

Hi ML.  Please refer to:

                Re: book of Revelation?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2013, 07:20:40 AM »

The Book of Revelation does not mention anything about Peter believing some of Paul's writings should not be in the Scriptures.

[ded2daworld]

He was referring to the thread book of revelation.

[MLCCP]

Thanks for that. However, there is absolutely zero reference in Scripture that has Peter referring to some of Paul's writings which should not be in Scripture. 

[ded2daworld]

I believe he was also referring to the fact that while ALL scripture is beneficial, some carries more weight than others.
Jesus saying, "This is love, that a man willingly lay down his life for his friends" is more beneficial than how many people did what and lived where in the book of numbers. As he mentioned, Paul asking Timothy to bring his cloak for the coming winter has little spiritual signifigance.

[MLCCP]

I believe he was also referring to the fact that while ALL scripture is beneficial, some carries more weight than others.
Jesus saying, "This is love, that a man willingly lay down his life for his friends" is more beneficial than how many people did what and lived where in the book of numbers. As he mentioned, Paul asking Timothy to bring his cloak for the coming winter has little spiritual signifigance.

While it is true that some scripture carries more weight than others, that doesn't apply to Paul. It seems to me that some people treat theology like all it is good for is filler.

[ded2daworld]

So which do you think is better, The study of Theology, or Bible study?
An hour in prayer, or reading what someone else has to say about your God - the God living inside of you? :dontknow:

[MLCCP]

So which do you think is better, The study of Theology, or Bible study?
An hour in prayer, or reading what someone else has to say about your God - the God living inside of you? :dontknow:

I don't see the conflict between the two. Try reading Romans leaving out theology. God speaks to a person through His written Word. Studying scripture IS prayer and praise.

The trouble with the "God told me....." people is there is no way to know what is fact and what is fiction. God spoke to Marry Baker Eddy and Joseph Smith and Russell, and that is how ALL cults are formed. 

[ded2daworld]

But IMO, if someone knows their Bible and knows the God living in them they will not be swayed by those that teach a different God

[sheila]

  there are laws..written in hearts and minds..for people who have no access to scriptures..

   God called them..a law unto themselves...Romans 2;14 indeed,when gentiles who do not have

  theology[law] do by nature things required by the law[theology] they are a theology[law]

for themselves..........v15 since they show that the requirements of the law[theology]

is written in their hearts.

[MLCCP]

But IMO, if someone knows their Bible and knows the God living in them they will not be swayed by those that teach a different God

To know Scripture is to be deep in History an Theology.

[MLCCP]

  there are laws..written in hearts and minds..for people who have no access to scriptures..

   God called them..a law unto themselves...Romans 2;14 indeed,when gentiles who do not have

  theology[law] do by nature things required by the law[theology] they are a theology[law]

for themselves..........v15 since they show that the requirements of the law[theology]

is written in their hearts.

I would call that your conscience, however, that can show there is a God, but it doesn't show what the Essence and Nature and attributes of God are. Hugging a tree doesn't tell you that salvation is by grace through faith, for example.

[ded2daworld]

 :2c: You're (MLCCP)the only one that mentions hugging a tree and I can't see how it might possibly relate :dontknow:

The only nature quote I know is, "The bull charging at you doesn't care that you're a vegetarian." -Jeff Smith

[Lazarus Short]

:2c: You're (MLCCP)the only one that mentions hugging a tree and I can't see how it might possibly relate :dontknow:

The only nature quote I know is, "The bull charging at you doesn't care that you're a vegetarian." -Jeff Smith

Feelings, Jeff, hugging a tree and thinking you're connected to God, not just connected to a tree.

I like your quote - the Dennis Dibben version is, "The other people on your www forum don't care if you're using Microsoft, Apple, Linux, or Ubuntu."

[MLCCP]

:2c: You're (MLCCP)the only one that mentions hugging a tree and I can't see how it might possibly relate :dontknow:

The only nature quote I know is, "The bull charging at you doesn't care that you're a vegetarian." -Jeff Smith

I was making the point that observing Nature is fine as far as it goes. It shows that there is a Creator, but it doesn't demonstrate who or what the Creator is. I didn't think anyone would have a problem seeing what I meant.  I guess the use of a little hyperlole is out of place here.

[dajomaco]

I will put My laws into their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be My people.
11 And each person will not teach his fellow citizen,[e]
and each his brother, saying, "Know the Lord,"
because they will all know Me,
from the least to the greatest of them



God is a trust worthy theologian.
This is his doctrine.
The Holy Spirit was speaking through Paul.
When it is said "I choose only to know Jesus Christ crucified.

[dajomaco]

 MLCCP the above was not to diminish what you are saying .
Just adding some texture to this thread.

[marie glen]

The Book of Revelation alludes to the spiritual struggles which face Christians of all ages.. Sometimes these struggles escalate, as does empires of man fall. Just think if there was a clear warning sign and a 'calendar' (or counting backwards) to go with it.. If it were to come upon the heads of our grand children, perhaps we could pass the instructions on to them.
:2c: :smile:

[marie glen]

well. I will stand up for the Book of Revelations..even though it mean I am drama seeking,

or have an agenda or seek pie in the sky.  Red herrings,strawman arguments and slippery slopes.

all.....only the word of God is the word of God.  what? remove the book of Revelation section

next?

   People have been twisting scripture for their own agenda from the beginning..and the

  book of revelations is no different.  But, that does not invalidate the scriptures,as the

  word of God..inspiried of the Holy spirit.

:iagree:  :cloud9:

To my way of thinking the book of revelation is the story of mankind, and is especially the peak of this experience. (This history and life as we know it.) It is central to the call of God and the message He is engraving upon every heart and mind.. that to stray from Him (Life/Perfection) in any teeny tiny way can only ever result in moving away from Life / destruction in a puff of smoke.. It's life in Him, or there is no life.. I sometimes think we are all in kindergarten, and we're chewing on the fruit of knowing good from evil, which is also life from death, and true from untrue. And I think all of us feel a call more to some parts of scripture off and on during life, than to others in our studies, etc..  :thumbsup: :smile:

[VineBranch]

Hi ML:

We seem to have blurred the lines between the thread about adjusting and the one about Revelation.  Did you check out the reference to the reply for which you asked?  You didn't mention it, and the writings didn't seem to reflect that you had.  I'll give you the quotation I used:  "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures."
(2Pe 3:15-16)

What I read is that Peter is saying that Paul has been given wisdom when he speaks about specific matters in his letters.  In the next sentence Peter uses a preposition and a pronoun (in them); this would be a reference to a former thing.  That thing (according to grammar, but you could argue against that if you wish), must be the closest logical noun ('things' doesn't work because it is part of the phrase):  which is '[these] matters'. Otherwise we would have lot of dangling modifiers and the whole sentence would cease to make sense.  When I read to the end of the sentence he binds his subject (these matters, referenced through the pronoun 'them') with the rest of scripture.  What I see is Peter linking the rest of scripture to Paul's writings when he writes about 'these matters'.