Incompatable Theology -? -

[ded2daworld]

and I know God uses dreams. What I was talking about was called concious dreaming. I learned how to be awake and dream and direct my dreams to what I wanted to happen. I haven't done it for years. It's self centered. I would spend hours on end living a fantasy life and not accomplishing anything in real life. :sigh:

[sheila]

what about...the eating of what was forbidden..done in faith..and some do not eat..out of faith..and some eat

with thanksgiving and faith...and anything out of faith is a 'sin' unto you?  Could this apply to what is

  'quickened of the spirit in the scriptures' to us.?

[ded2daworld]

 :dontknow:
Each person must work out on their own what the Spirit of God/Jesus is telling them. :Chinscratch:

[sheila]

 wow,ded2...I had never heard of such a thing... but, you know...I think we be spiritual creatures and maybe we

  spiritually expierement and explore different things and ideas[not saying such things are fruitful,just that

   the little children 'explore' such things]

  and regarding conscious dreaming......And I in righteousness I will see your face; when I awake,I will

be satisfied with seeing your likeness..  and as far as the illusion goes...the whole world of mankind

has been blinded  by the prince of this world

[ded2daworld]

I merely answered your question the best I could, Sheila. I guess I should have left it at  :dontknow:

[misszoolander]

I have not found one, however I have knocked the socks off friends that belong to the Gaudiya Vaishnavism movement, using "the good news".

These people believe that Yahweh is Krishna, that Jesus is God, their bible parallels the same biblical stories of the OT.

Me and my friends (that belong to the above faith) often chat about our faiths,  I am the only Christian based one, but I participate and fill in any queries they have about Jesus. One day I introduced to them my belief of universal reconciliation.

They were dumbfounded. They believe in a hell too, not exactly the same hell as Christians. Their rebuttal is that God is too perfect too allow anyone near his true form, even the righteous. I reminded them of Jesus's self-sacrifice (these are people that have not grown up in Christian theology) and then they began to ponder, and ask a lot of questions. I managed to satisfy each answer using Gods word, and so far a few of my friends that belong to this movement are looking into their own faiths. Each one admitted it would be wonderful for God to show his truth to everyone.

[ded2daworld]

That sounds wonderful missz :thumbsup: :dsunny:

[jabcat]

yeah, wow.  fantastic.   :2thumbs:  Praise God.

[dajomaco]

Ded I understand that you have to look at  things for it's hidden agenda.

When ever I decide to direct my mind to think about my relationship with God.
I marvel at how it is a perfect Love relationship.
That Jesus who calls himself my brother.
Died in my place took my death sentence.
Has erased any fears that I have of my Father God.

At that moment I am very conscious of Christ.

I have a Christ consciousness that would make a new ager
jealous. I am free of labels.

I don't have to believe scriptures (but I do) If the Spirit agrees with them.
I don't have to perform for God.(but I love that he sees every thing I do and think)
I don't have listen to the quite voice of the Holy Spirit (but I do).

I can freely get every thing wrong, and I am free enough to get it right.

IMO we have enough cautionary out there,
warning about words.

[sheila]

I'm sorry Ded2...I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought your pov was wrong, or not valid. about

your expierence with conscious dreaming.I didn't mean to give that impression in my post. :sigh:

   I guess what I was trying to get at was just this thing...all things are lawful..but not all things are expiedent.

      for instance  oob expierences.  8-9 yrs ago..my best friend was dying from als bulbar type and was in

  nursing home. When I would turn out the light and go to bed and pray..my mind would go to her

  and I would put my arm around her and hold her and tell her I loved her. I did not know why this was happening

  something in my spirit was doing it. I did not know if it was 'proper' to even do this..if" I" waseven  doing

it..  Anyway,she died and my other friend and I was standing in front of her coffin at mortuary. And I

said to her' I'm going to tell you something that you may think sounds 'crazy" but I'm going to tell you

anyway.  Then I told her..when I go to bed at night, and turn out the light and pray...I go to Pam and hold her

and tell her I love her...sounds crazy doesn't it.  And she said 'No, and I'll tell you why. When I go to bed at

night and turn off the light and pray, I ask Jesus to go to Pam and hold her and tell her He loves her."

   I never felt more a part of Jesus body then at that time.  Do I support oob  trips/travel etc? No.  I can

only speak of this expierence..   There is no law against the Holy spirit.

   that being said...is there another spirit thatwill twist and turn and imitate the genuine? yes.

[lomarah]

Well that made me cry. That's awesome.

[VineBranch]

What is a cult?   I was listening to a garden variety preacher on the radio this morning.  He was saying that all cults refuse to enter into God's grace.   They are still living under law, however they may define that.

This refusal to live under the grace of God binds man from every side, through fear and threats.   This is not to say we are to live in lawlessness.  On the contrary, if we live in daily communion with Jesus Christ, our path is lighted and set out before us through commitment, grace,  and love.   Our reward is Him.   

How many churches stress this kind of freedom in Christ?



But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

--Rom 2:29

Actually Molly, if he was a garden variety he was a ... cultivare! :laugh:

[VineBranch]

"Buzzwords,"  interesting.  Their own language that is allowed or disallowed.

What was the cult that said nothing mattered?

I think a simple definition of a cult is any person or group that puts itself between you and Christ.

I have a friend who would disagree Molly, he thinks that's the definition of in-laws.

[VineBranch]

Or, how about,  that translation is wrong.  It doesn't say the Word was God in the Greek, it says the Word was a god.

That's when I decided to learn some Greek.

And, no it doesn't.

King James got it right.

I had the same experience Molly.  A JW showed me his interlinear New Testament.  In English it read 'a god'.  I asked him to show me where the article was in the Greek because I couldn't find it anywhere.  He looked at me like I was something his cat just dropped at his feet.

[VineBranch]

I thought the new age of Christianity does not believe there is a hell.
The old age of Christianity believes in a literal hell.

I believe in a literal hell.  Been there, done that.

Are we still talking about Spokane?

[VineBranch]

and I know God uses dreams. What I was talking about was called concious dreaming. I learned how to be awake and dream and direct my dreams to what I wanted to happen. I haven't done it for years. It's self centered. I would spend hours on end living a fantasy life and not accomplishing anything in real life. :sigh:

Psychologists call it Lucid Dreaming.

[reFORMer]

To go back to an earlier topic in this thread . . . In the Soviet Union the arm of the government that dealt with religion, all of it, was called The Ministry of the Cults.  To the best of my understanding, all religious groups are cults.  We in  the USA have had a more restricted view of what a cult is by way of certain events used to propagandize that point of view from an institutional Christian bias.  Government didn't want to alienate their support.

I think it was intended for controlling what the populace thinks about the unincorporated Bible study and home fellowship, or the "house church" in a neighbor's home down the street.  Calling them "cults" with their definition of a cult would make it easier to suppress the burgeoning number of independent home groups should it become more convenient for certain aspects of civil government at the time.  Now it's possible the attempt is to make these gatherings seem more political or terrorist oriented.  Certainly the idea keeps being pushed that Christian or evangelical fundamentalism is to be equated with Moslem fundamentalism, regardless of how ridiculously far from the facts that is.

My concern about a doctrine incompatible with Universal Salvation is that of Statism.  When the government or a man at its head is seen more and more in Messianic terms, the people left out of their secular salvation in previous incarnations during the 20th Century have been Christians and Jews.  The constant drivel against us has been too much ignored by believers.  Many among us grew up taking it as truth that born again Christians are at the least uneducated bigots hindering the progress of the world, for instance.  With Al-Jeziera manning two cable and satellite channels now I don't suppose this situation will improve.  While we don't have to turn them on, many will.

[VineBranch]

To go back to an earlier topic in this thread . . . In the Soviet Union the arm of the government that dealt with religion, all of it, was called The Ministry of the Cults.  To the best of my understanding, all religious groups are cults.  We in  the USA have had a more restricted view of what a cult is by way of certain events used to propagandize that point of view from an institutional Christian bias.  Government didn't want to alienate their support.

I think it was intended for controlling what the populace thinks about the unincorporated Bible study and home fellowship, or the "house church" in a neighbor's home down the street.  Calling them "cults" with their definition of a cult would make it easier to suppress the burgeoning number of independent home groups should it become more convenient for certain aspects of civil government at the time.  Now it's possible the attempt is to make these gatherings seem more political or terrorist oriented.  Certainly the idea keeps being pushed that Christian or evangelical fundamentalism is to be equated with Moslem fundamentalism, regardless of how ridiculously far from the facts that is.

My concern about a doctrine incompatible with Universal Salvation is that of Statism.  When the government or a man at its head is seen more and more in Messianic terms, the people left out of their secular salvation in previous incarnations during the 20th Century have been Christians and Jews.  The constant drivel against us has been too much ignored by believers.  Many among us grew up taking it as truth that born again Christians are at the least uneducated bigots hindering the progress of the world, for instance.  With Al-Jeziera manning two cable and satellite channels now I don't suppose this situation will improve.  While we don't have to turn them on, many will.

Yet ... this too shall pass.  Would its incompatibility not pass as well?

[dajomaco]

1.   The political expression of altruism is collectivism or statism, which holds that man's life and work belong to the state—to society, to the group, the gang, the race, ...


ImO the ability of one man to think of himself,
as representing more than one of his kind.
Leads to the insanity of this worlds wisdom.

I can listen to a Muslim talk and say something about getting
to rape virgins when he dies. That his God rewards this way.

A Muslim can hear, a westerner talk about how his, Christian God
is going to torture for ever those that disagree with him.

I am responsible for knowing and owning what I believe.
I have been separated by God called according to Christ.

I am the only person on the face of the earth that represents
my point of view.

I struggle with giving that same definition to other individuals.
I all ways see them representing more than they actually do.

[Molly]

The political expression of altruism is collectivism or statism, which holds that man's life and work belong to the state—to society, to the group, the gang, the race, ...

No it's not.  That's the political expression of robbery and tyranny.

Go and read Animal Farm again.

Altruism comes from the heart, not from the point of a gun.


You were bought for a price. Stop becoming slaves of people.

--1 Cor 7:23



Altruism

The belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.

[ded2daworld]

Daj said. "I am the only person on the face of the earth that represents
my point of view." :iagree: :thumbsup:

[Molly]

Daj said. "I am the only person on the face of the earth that represents
my point of view." :iagree: :thumbsup:

Is it different from the communists and the fascists?  I hope.

Just don't think you can own the fruits of my labor without my permission or compliance.  Then your point of view is treading on me.

[jabcat]

  That's the political expression of robbery and tyranny.

Go and read Animal Farm again.

Altruism comes from the heart, not from the point of a gun.


You were bought for a price. Stop becoming slaves of people.

--1 Cor 7:23



Altruism

The belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.

:thumbsup:

[ded2daworld]

But the definition says "disinterested - concern" an oxymoron.
The opposite of love is not hate
the opposite of love is apathy
I therefore submit there is no such thing as disinterested concern. :Peace2: :icon_jokercolor:

[Molly]

I think by 'disinterested' it means you don't have a conflict of interest--such as we will be altruistic to all those who vote for me, or who are a member of the party, or who are a certain color of skin, or whatever agenda one might hold as a reason to appear 'generous.'

In which case, you are not 'disinterested,' but have an interest in an outcome.


4 Love [charity] is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way.

--1 Cor 13