Why is Cain not listed in Adams descendent?

[misszoolander]

Hi guys,

Am I missing something here? Where is Cain?  :dunno2:
Is there a reason he and his descendent was not listed?



1 This is the list of the descendants of Adam. When God created humankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them "Humankind" when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived one hundred thirty years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. 4 The days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years; and he had other sons and daughters. 5 Thus all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred thirty years; and he died. 6 When Seth had lived one hundred five years, he became the father of Enosh. 7 Seth lived after the birth of Enosh eight hundred seven years, and had other sons and daughters. 8 Thus all the days of Seth were nine hundred twelve years; and he died. 9 When Enosh had lived ninety years, he became the father of Kenan. 10 Enosh lived after the birth of Kenan eight hundred fifteen years, and had other sons and daughters. 11 Thus all the days of Enosh were nine hundred five years; and he died. 12 When Kenan had lived seventy years, he became the father of Mahalalel. 13 Kenan lived after the birth of Mahalalel eight hundred and forty years, and had other sons and daughters. 14 Thus all the days of Kenan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died. 15 When Mahalalel had lived sixty-five years, he became the father of Jared. 16 Mahalalel lived after the birth of Jared eight hundred thirty years, and had other sons and daughters. 17 Thus all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred ninety-five years; and he died. 18 When Jared had lived one hundred sixty-two years he became the father of Enoch. 19 Jared lived after the birth of Enoch eight hundred years, and had other sons and daughters. 20 Thus all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty-two years; and he died. 21 When Enoch had lived sixty-five years, he became the father of Methuselah. 22 Enoch walked with God after the birth of Methuselah three hundred years, and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty-five years. 24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him. 25 When Methuselah had lived one hundred eighty-seven years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 Methuselah lived after the birth of Lamech seven hundred eighty-two years, and had other sons and daughters. 27 Thus all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty-nine years; and he died. 28 When Lamech had lived one hundred eighty-two years, he became the father of a son; 29 he named him Noah, saying, "Out of the ground that the Lord has cursed this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the toil of our hands." 30 Lamech lived after the birth of Noah five hundred ninety-five years, and had other sons and daughters. 31 Thus all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy-seven years; and he died. 32 After Noah was five hundred years old, Noah became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

[Lazarus Short]

The Seedline folks try to get a lot of mileage out of this, but my take on it is that Seth was the son of choice, after Abel was killed and Cain was banished and his bloodline not to figure into God's Plan.

[misszoolander]

That makes sense thanks Laz   :thumbsup:

[ded2daworld]

Little Kwai Chang Cain was lucky the monks took him in and taught him Kung Fu.

[ded2daworld]

Abel brought the acceptable sacrifice to God which involved the shedding of blood.
There is no shedding of blood, no sacrifice of a life, in the offering of vegetables.
Any one with little children knows they will usually offer to "sacrifice" their vegetables
rather than meat.
Abel was accepted by God and his was basically "innocent" blood. Seth was the replacement of Abel.
It was through Seth (his Son Enosh)that people began calling on the name of the Lord. There is no record that Cain did anything but whine about everything.
:Peace2:Many people have found tons of symbolism in this story so I'll stop here.

[Lazarus Short]

There is something deeper to consider here, too, and it is something I have written about in my book manuscript:


THE CHOOSING – A NON-RANDOM WALK

     One of the themes running through the pages of the Bible, and there are many, many themes all intertwined, is the theme of the Two (sometimes Three), one accepted, one (or two) rejected.  Beginning with Cain and Abel, we see such pairs over and over, such as the two thieves who were crucified with Christ, only one of whom was promised a good End.  Ultimately, we see in the Great White Throne Judgment that the peoples and nations of the world are divided like sheep and goats.  Keep in mind that both sheep and goats are clean animals, but the "sheep" nations seem to receive the nod of acceptance.  Rather like the casting of lots in the seventh chapter of Joshua, where the focus narrowed from tribe, to clan, to family, to Achan, we see God dealing with an ever narrowing bloodline, as we shall see.  It puts me in mind of farmers in the days before seed companies - they would set aside the very best seed of each harvest for next year's planting.  I could almost call it a breeding program, and perhaps it was.  We can see how Noah and his sons were chosen, while the rest of humanity perished, including (presumably) the entire Cain line.  Of Noah's sons, Ham was rejected, and Japheth was a close second to the son of choice, Shem.  We will see later a broad hint that Shem was the favorite son of his father.  The line goes thus:  Noah, Shem, Arphaxad, Salah, Eber (the father of all Hebrews), Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah, Abram.  The eleventh chapter of Genesis, from which I drew the "begat" list, states that a father lived so-and-so many years after he sired the son of record, and begat other sons and daughters.  So, there was a lot of choosing going on, as God kept an eye out for just the right lineage to turn up, according to His Plan. 

[ded2daworld]

Yep. All of Cain's descendants would have perished at or before the flood. The focus is on the line that survives through Noah. :thumbsup:

[redhotmagma]

Cain is a type of the carnal man.  The line that is followed is a type of the new man. :2c:

[sheila]

 :iagree:  two men will be in a bed..one will be taken..the other left behind..two women at

a hand mill..one taken..the other left behind.

[micah7:9]

Cain is a type of the carnal man.  The line that is followed is a type of the new man. :2c:

Yes and Cain's descendant's are not given a geneology(sp) in print, but the gene's are very well at work today. I probably said the same thing you said Red.    :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

Cain is a type of the carnal man.  The line that is followed is a type of the new man. :2c:

Yes and Cain's descendant's are not given a geneology(sp) in print, but the gene's are very well at work today. I probably said the same thing you said Red.    :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

Do you have a theory as to how Cain's genes survived the flood?  I can't think of any way, unless one of the wives of Noah's sons was part Cain-ite.

[redhotmagma]

It's the same kind of genes as "you are of your father the devil".

[lomarah]

Coincidentally I just read an article about demonic DNA and how they are all born completely evil because the DNA of their parents were created completely evil.

Biology and especially DNA have always fascinated me. It was my favorite subject in school.

[Lazarus Short]

Ah, seedline theory!  If the Cain line was literally of the Devil, a very nasty can of worms, theologically, and was NOT wiped out in the Flood, then any one of us could be contaminated and be a tare without knowing it.  Scary, very scary. :doh:

[redhotmagma]

My sarcasm monitor seems to be off today, so forgive me if I'm missing  it.

Just to be clear Laz, I'm not speaking of literal genes. 

[Lazarus Short]

I see that we need a "sarcasm" font.  Any suggestions?  How about this:  Sarcasm Font?  This font [Comic Sans MS] is available in our own "Post reply" window.

[VineBranch]

My sarcasm monitor seems to be off today, so forgive me if I'm missing  it.

Just to be clear Laz, I'm not speaking of literal genes.

It would be hard to imagine some of the same genes Adam gave to Abel wouldn't be in Cain.  Maybe Cain and Able had the same colour eyes, or the same hair loss problem (that would have been Eve's, never mind).  I would buy that the same genotype produced by Adam would be applicable to both Cain and Abel.

I am having trouble with the non-literal gene though.  Would they be in charge of character, or behaviour, or maybe conscience?  Wouldn't they also stem from Adam?  Wouldn't this eliminate the seedline theory, in that Adam was of God, not the devil?

[redhotmagma]

Adam, Cain, Ishmael, Esau

These are types

Christ, Able, Isaac, Jacob

poor Esau, why did God hate him before he was even born?

poor Hagar, that bondwoman is to be thrown out

[VineBranch]

Adam, Cain, Ishmael, Esau

These are types

Christ, Able, Isaac, Jacob

Could you elaborate on this.  I'm afraid I don't get that.  Is type a form of kind?

[marie glen]

..I know! Poor Hagar. ..but God helped her.. it wasn't personal? She's not thrown out, as we know in UR, just the 1st covenant which was with Israel which Paul used her as an illustration, which I guess all of life is (an illustration!) A 1st covenant, I think so Israel would be swaddling cloths for the Christ..

Say.. has anyone ever thought that the Cainites were the ones with the prominent brows, which perished.. or that it to say, we don't have the Neanderthals around any more.. I think I got that right.. I've had trouble keeping Cro Magnon and Neandertals straight, but I think I finally got it so I remember..(?) I know the Bible says God put a mark on Cain and we usually think of that like a big x or something on his forehead.. but when we look at history...?

Here's another weird thought I've had.. remember how the oldest artifacts found of a religious nature, they assume, in archeology, were of a rather stout mother 'goddess'? And like legends of a great flood, they've been found in all lands.. I've found myself wondering if these artifacts weren't vague memories of Eve (the "mother of us all? as Adam called her) and perhaps by time her days were up, she hadn't become a rather stout lady?
- Well.. it's just an idea.. :smile:

[redhotmagma]

We aren't talking any literal descent. 

Rom 5
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

1 co 15
45So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

The Hebrew word for earth is adamah, it is from the same word  Adam comes from which means or red/ruddy
Adam is the old man, the natural man, the man of dust, he brings death

Gen 25
The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger."

Rom 9
3For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, 5whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
      6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9For this is the word of promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON (Isaac)." 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." 13Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."

Gal 4
21Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

27For it is written,
         "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR;
         BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR;
         FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE
         THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."

28And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

30But what does the Scripture say?
         "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
         FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."

31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

Rom 8
1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Here's a fun nugget.  Esau's territory is called Edom.  Edom is the exact same word as Adam, except it has different vowel points (which are not original, they were added by the masoretes). 

Gen 25
Now the first came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau.

Remember Adam comes from the word red/ruddy, the word red in Gen 25 for red is adimony the word that adam comes from

[Molly]

6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

We are the children of the promise, miracle children like Isaac, born from above.  It is through Isaac that the seed will be reckoned.

The first covenant, the everlasting covenant, was made with Abraham.  I will make you a father of many nations [Gentiles].

He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because the birthright covenant comes down to us through that line.



Romans 4:13 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.


As for me, behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.

Gen 17:4


"nations"

H1471
גּי    גּוי
gôy  gôy
go'ee, go'-ee

Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

[micah7:9]

It's the same kind of genes as "you are of your father the devil".

I believe I may have erred in using genes as my reason. As for Laz, "Do you have a theory as to how Cain's genes survived the flood?  I can't think of any way, unless one of the wives of Noah's sons was part Cain-ite."
It were not genes or dna that survived a flood or any other disruption. The truth, the "knowledge of good and evil" had established it's self in mankind/human being and there would be no need for a Cain, as descendants to be printed, Cain's mind and nature is the nature of man, as Redhotmagma stated, the carnality of man is Cain. Can anyone deny the shortness of Cain's ancestry as written in Genesis is a witness as to what his line would produce?
Gen 4:17  And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
Gen 4:18  And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
Gen 4:19  And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
Gen 4:20  And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
Gen 4:21  And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen 4:22  And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
Gen 4:23  And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
Gen 4:24  If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

Redhotmagma, in my opinion, has it correct. :HeartThrob:

[redhotmagma]

Say.. has anyone ever thought that the Cainites were the ones with the prominent brows, which perished.. or that it to say, we don't have the Neanderthals around any more.. I think I got that right.. I've had trouble keeping Cro Magnon and Neandertals straight, but I think I finally got it so I remember..(?) I know the Bible says God put a mark on Cain and we usually think of that like a big x or something on his forehead.. but when we look at history...?

I've kicked that idea around before.  Not necessarily the brow being the mark.  But the sons of God coming down to the daughters of men.  The sons of God being the sons of Seth, the daughters of men being those of Cain. 

[VineBranch]

Homo sapiens neaderthalensis, and Homo sapiens sapiens (cro-magnon) are now known to have been the same species.  If you dressed Neaderthal in a suit and tie and sent him or her into a city, they wouldn't stand out.

Secondly, I don't think we can make the assumption that Adam could actually have sired a lesser and a greater being (either Abel, or Seth).