wild beast

[Lazarus Short]

The wild beast in Rev. 13 is described in a sort of shorthand manner.  To see it more fully, we need to go to the Book of Daniel.  Here, we see more detail.  Looking at chapter seven, we see four beasts in a dream of Daniel's, as follows. At the same time, keep chapter two in mind, for Daniel's dream in chapter seven ties in with Nebuchadnezzar's dream in chapter two.
First, there is a lion with eagle's wings, and being the first beast in the series, it would represent Babylon, and would correspond to the head of gold in Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
The second beast is a bear, which raised itself on one side, representing the successor kingdom of the Persians and the Medes, the Persians being dominant, thus the lopsided stance. This bear carried three ribs in its mouth, perhaps to stand for three previous empires it had conquered, maybe Babylon, Egypt and Lydia.  In terms of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, this beast/empire is the chest and arms of silver.
After the bear, we have beast number three, a four-headed leopard with wings.  This swift leopard would be the Greek empire of Alexander and his successors, divided after the death of Alexander, like the brass of the belly of the figure of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, divided into the two thighs, but in fact, his empire was divided into four parts, correstponding to the four heads.
Now we reach the strong meat, our real subject matter:  beast number four.  The first three are important to know and understand, but I've mentioned them mostly for context, which is always important.  After the brass in the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, came the two legs of iron, and iron is the key to this beast and empire.  As Daniel said about the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, "...as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things:  and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise."  Moving on to Daniel's dream, we can see added detail.  Daniel said in chapter seven, "Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; and of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of the horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.  I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom."  Daniel was answered thus, also in chapter seven, "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.  And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise; and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.  And he shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."
OK, let's break all this down.  First, iron came along long after bronze had been the dominant metal, not all at once, but for me, iron suggests late antiquity, when Rome came to power, a little at first, and then ever larger.  Teeth of iron, and nails (or claws) of brass, so there is also a connection with the Greeks and their culture and civilization.  The Romans were famous for adopting anything Greek, especially after

[Lazarus Short]

they had overrun the decadent Greek world.  Even the gods and mythology of the Greeks was recast into a Roman mold. So the brass claws fit with the iron teeth.  Next, let's look at the ten up and three down horns.  Here's a rough list of the nations making up the Roman Empire about 14 AD, or the death of Augustus:
Iberia
Gaul
Italy
Illyricum
the Greek world
Syria
Palestine
Egypt
Lybia
the former lands of Carthage (in North Africa)
These make up the ten horns – so what makes up the three fallen horns?  First, we must identify the single horn coming up among the ten.  To do so, I'll list its characteristics:
It has eyes, a mouth speaking great things, a look more stout than that of the other horns, overthrows three kingdoms, wears out and makes war with the saints, prevails against the saints for 1260 years, it speaks against the Most High, it will think to change times and laws, and it will last until the Second Coming. 
Pagan Rome overthrew lots of kingdoms, and forcefully destroyed Carthage, Dacia, and Judea, but did not entirely exterminate their people.  After Pagan Rome  became Papal Rome, the Rugian people were wiped out, and nearly forgotten; the Occitan people were crusaded against, and a person has to dig to find out the attendant horrors.  The third kingdom is the other leg of iron, the Eastern Empire, which split off from the authority of Rome, and paid dearly for it, as repeated Crusades weakened it , although official history will repeat the lie that the reason for the Crusades was to retake the Holy Land – in my (maybe-not-so-humble) opinion, that was not the real reason.  The dominance of the little horn lasted until 1798, when the Napoleonic Wars stripped it of its temporal powers.  Counting back 1260 years – or time (360 years), times (720 years), and half a time (180 years), takes us to 538 AD, and the decree of Justinian, which gave the Church the recognition of the secular State, and with it, the beginning of temporal power.  Persecutions and wars against genuine Christians began at about that time.  Further, Papal Rome spoke against the Most High with non-Biblical traditions, doctrines (like ET) Canon Law.  It changed times (Sabbath > Sunday) and laws (dropped the second Commandment against graven inages, and split another to make ten).
As we go forward to Rev. 13, I think we can bring most of what we learned in Daniel forward, except for one detail:  "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed:  and all the world wondered after the beast."  [Rev. 13:3]  In 1798, the Pope was taken prisoner by General Berthier, and he died in exile. At the time, many thought the institution was finished.  Later, when Italy was united by Garibaldi in the 19th century, Papal Rome was stripped of its land and thus, of its temporal power.  However, in 1929 its temporal power was restored

[Lazarus Short]

by Mussolini, making the Pope a king again.  Anderson, in his book, quotes a Church official as saying, "...it is healing the wound of fifty-nine years."  There is more that I can say, but at least (if I am correct) we know who/what the Wild Beast is, and that is our subject.  Be aware that this is an SDA interpretation, and other views are welcome, especially since I am an ex-Adventist.       


     

[redhotmagma]

The Wild Beast is the animal impulses of the flesh.  Food, covering, reproduction...

The False Prophet is the religious mind of the flesh.

The Devil is the originating identity of the flesh.  This is the father of the carnal nature.

These three entities are the only things clearly said by the Bible to be in the Lake of Fire.

:iagree:

[eaglesway]

I respectfully disagree. Jesus spoke of those who would be cast in the fire prepared for the devil and his angels in Matthew, I believe, because "I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, etc.". Also, I belive He spoke of this also when He said, for it is better to enter heaven maimed than to enter Gehenna whole- or maybe you do not see a connection between these manifestations of the fire?

I see only one fire- the fire that consumes darkness and is shining from the eyes of Jesus- the fulness of God within Him.  But I think it has different affects on beings in different conditions.

When the scriptures talk of the devil being punished in "the presence of God and His holy angels", I see this as the "lake of fire".

Everyman will be salted with fire and every sacrifice will  be seasoned with salt. 

[redhotmagma]

 :iagree: too

I think the different beasts are the carnal nature of men, and all men will enter the LOF, it was prepared for them(the carnal beasts).  Seeing how the LOF is Gods presence, IMO, or His radiance, all will enter, only some will be hurt, all will be saved though as through fire, and all will lose the beast image of the corruptible, and reflect the glory of the lord as in a mirror (basanos), and bear the image of the incorruptible.

[sheila]

 in the valley of ben-hinnom they burned up carcasses of dead beasts? right?.....  we can't be burning up

sons in the valley of ben-hinnon/gehenna..that isBaal's high place of worship Jeremiah 32;;35  they built

  High places for Baal....in the valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech

  though I never commanded nor did it enter my mind,that they should do such a detestable thing.

  whoaa...ain't going there. :eek:..there has to be some other way.......than throwing Israels son and daughters

in the fire.........

   we are told in the parable of the wheat and tares..that angels will bind the tares for burning..thus serpent seed

or demons..that the demons are seperated first from God's wheat[man to bear image of incorrupt one]

  Is Jesus capable of directing His angels to seperate demons from mankind?  Harvest is the end/consumation

  you either end up in the barn or the LOF...two very different ends.

   you all are entitled to your opionion as to who goes into the lof..but I'm not giving any worship to Baal

or Molech..on this front..     THERE IS ANOTHER WAY and the salvation of all mankind is in the barn...

  what will be lost in the LOF..evil rebellious spirits,doctrines of demons/lies/unclean spiritsoppressive spirits

  it is the place where all that is negative/evil contrast..all that causes sin..and stumblings is consumed in

  HIS JEALOUS WRATH.......... It is what He does for us..that we can not do for ourselves  In this wrath and jealousy

  He demolishes all death.all things that cause sin. ..

    discern ever so carefully..and make the distinction between a man and any demons that may be using him..

    Note that Jesus had full authority to cast them out and restore men. that He addressed them,inquired of their

names and spoke to them openly whether they be on the bodies of the Pharisee's sadducees..and say

to them'who will save YOU from the fires?" evidently proclaimingHis sacrifice would not. He come in flesh

because the little children were partakers of flesh.And He said..the flesh is weak,but the spirit willing

  FOR THIS REASON ANTI-CHRIST SPIRITS WILL NOT  CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST COME IN THE FLESH.   


     

[eaglesway]

:iagree: too

I think the different beasts are the carnal nature of men, and all men will enter the LOF, it was prepared for them(the carnal beasts).  Seeing how the LOF is Gods presence, IMO, or His radiance, all will enter, only some will be hurt, all will be saved though as through fire, and all will lose the beast image of the corruptible, and reflect the glory of the lord as in a mirror (basanos), and bear the image of the incorruptible.

We're not all that far apart but I think the lake of fire is a post second resurrection experience of the presence of God for those whose names were blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

My saying there is only one fire means that i think it is all(for us in this life and for the wicked in the aionian kolassis/pur) eminating from God. What we are experiecing in this life, (imo) is not the fire prepared for the devil and his angels- I see that as coming at the end of the next age(but I see it as through a glass darkly :o)

Our beast is slain when we die and are buried and are raised into newness of life in Christ- if any man be in Christ Jesus, "Behold(see, understand)- old things are passed away, all things become new."

The same fire/light we rejoice in will cause weeping and gnashing of teeth among the adversaries until every hidden thing is brought to light and Leviathan, the fleeing twisting serpent(ego/self) is brought up and slain by the sword of His mouth and the knee bows and the tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord with rejoicing heart and mind set free and spirit delivered.

I don't see it all as allegory lived in the now, I see it as an administration suitable to the completion of time, with ages to come.

[lomarah]

Sheila wow amen! And your last line in caps really struck deep!

[reFORMer]

We're not all that far apart but I think the lake of fire is a post second resurrection experience of the presence of God for those whose names were blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Scripture never tells us if anyone's name was actually blotted out, only, "If anyone's name was not written..." an "if" that was never answered.  Then too, only the kind of people, like murderers and liars, who would have a part (not all their lot) in the lake, not that any or how many were found.  That wasn't written either.  We'd have to add to the scroll to say.  These facts continue to amaze me.