Will

[micah7:9]

Ded, to use letters that may be frowned upon, but BS contains only the truth, that you do not really love your wife. I have expressed your "truth" to previous wives and I have no wife now. There is no truth in no truth. :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

I wonder if one can say a truth but in a way that manipulates another to believing what is not true?
If truth is spoken to intentionally cause harm or upset, is it the same as a lie?

Happens all the time. The letter kills, the spirit gives life.

[micah7:9]

I wonder if one can say a truth but in a way that manipulates another to believing what is not true?
If truth is spoken to intentionally cause harm or upset, is it the same as a lie?

Happens all the time. The letter kills, the spirit gives life.

aint no quote from Micah.

[eaglesway]

woops.

[VineBranch]

He was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of liars.

That doesn't mean he can't say the truth if it suits his purposes.

[VineBranch]

A lie in reality is the expression of no faith and is a sin.

An untruth spoken as knowledge is ignorance and is not as sin.

How will they know unless someone is sent.
Sent to tell them the truth the good news.

A lie, is a lie, is a lie.

[VineBranch]

no lie comes from the truth.

No truth hides a lie

Are you serious?  Thousands of lies have come from the truth.

[dajomaco]

no lie comes from the truth.

No truth hides a lie

Are you serious?  Thousands of lies have come from the truth.

Hereis scriptural backing for what I've said
I can give you as many scriptures as you like .
Could you give me one that confirms your philosophy

Thousands of lies have come from the truth.

I have not written to you because you don't know the truth,
but because you do know it, and because no lie comes from the truth.

But you coat the truth with lies; you are all worthless doctors.

Faithful love and truth will join together; righteousness and peace will embrace.

instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth.

They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.

But if you have bitter envy and selfish ambition in your heart, don't brag and deny the truth.

If we say, "We have fellowship with Him," yet we walk in darkness, we are lying and are not practicing the truth.

[micah7:9]

I, don't see a lie coming out of the truth, but there are lies built to deny the truth. The Truth will contain no lies. Now for more scriptures, I wait. Blessings :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

PS. The post is about WILL. We must find out the person in charge of the switch on the tracks. :Peace2:

[VineBranch]

Hereis scriptural backing for what I've said
I can give you as many scriptures as you like .
Could you give me one that confirms your philosophy

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.Rom 1:25

The truth was the source of the lie.

 

[VineBranch]

I, don't see a lie coming out of the truth, but there are lies built to deny the truth. The Truth will contain no lies.

But there are  lies which contain the truth.  You have but to look at the ecclesiastical movement, or the way Christianity is practiced among Hindus.

[eaglesway]

Hereis scriptural backing for what I've said
I can give you as many scriptures as you like .
Could you give me one that confirms your philosophy

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.Rom 1:25

The truth was the source of the lie.

I would have to disagree VB. IMO The truth was not the source of the lie. The lie was planted into the field of the truth, like wheat and tares.

A truth over prioritized becomes a lie. According to Jesus all the prophets and the law "hinged", open and close, on the foundational truth of the two great commandments (You shall love the Lord your God with all you heart and your neighbor as yourself)

The parable of the Samaritan and the man wounded by thieves discerns the foundational truth- that loving your neighbor testifies to love for God and union with Him more than "knowing" the things of God or the "truths" of God like the Pharisee and the Levite possessed.

"I have glorified my word above all my name"

For example, Some folks would disqualify you for a relationship with God because you call Him Jesus rather than Yashua, their spirit of elitism and sectarian legalism infecting the truth of God's love in Christ among all them that know Him for who He is and "live the word" tho perhaps in some measure "ignorant in letters" and systematic theology.

These same kinds of sectarianism are taught daily over issues like baptism, the godhead doctrine, Aminianism and Calvinism, etc., etc. ad infinitum.

Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, who make the "word of God", which is the LOGOS, which is the revelation of the divine nature of Messiah Jesus the image of God- void(not reproducing the divine nature in the hearer) by their traditions, their legalistic sectarian spirit, and their failure to love their neighbor while trumpeting their love for God through their theology, dress, rituals, laws etc.,etc, ad infinitum.

IMO,None of these lies were "sourced" in the truth, but were sowed among the wheat by the adversary in order to produce tares rather than children of the kingdom.

[VineBranch]

Hereis scriptural backing for what I've said
I can give you as many scriptures as you like .
Could you give me one that confirms your philosophy

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.Rom 1:25

The truth was the source of the lie.

I would have to disagree VB. IMO The truth was not the source of the lie. The lie was planted into the field of the truth, like wheat and tares.

I would agree with you eagle, but it seems to me you can't alter something (change it) unles it existed in the first place.  Otherwise IMO it would have been generated, not altered (or changed).  Paul said they changed the truth of God into a lie, it doesn't say they made a lie, or created one.   

[ded2daworld]

I may be stupid but it seems to me that VB and EW are just saying the same thing differently. :dontknow:

[VineBranch]

I may be stupid but it seems to me that VB and EW are just saying the same thing differently. :dontknow:

I'm sorry ded ... I must have goofed in my explanation.

What I am saying is that the lie referred to in Romans came about as the result of people having changed the truth that they knew.  I don't mean to speak for Eagle, and Eagle if you could confirm or deny this I would appreciate it.  What I think Eagle may be saying is that the lie is a totally different thing, which comes from the same general area of thought.  I must stress however, that is just my interpretation of Eagle's words, and needs to be confirmed by him.  This is just the way I see the difference.

[ded2daworld]

Well I'll chalk it up to my humble spirit that sees no difference :laugh:

[sheila]

this is how they 'changed' it into a lie....they said they loved God but despized man made in the image of God......

   the antidote.'Christ'...whatever you have done for one of the least ones of these,ye have done to me....

    ....the seed of Abraham was to be blessing for all nations...but because of their despizing the nations in their elitism

    and lacking 'salt' in themselves...they were only fit to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.. their... lack of faith...

  coupled with..the great faith evidenced in the gentiles...showed they were no longer fit for anything but to be thrown out

[redhotmagma]

The ark was in the HOH.  It was the at the center of worship.  Everytime we see God's glory cloud we see the cherubim carrying it.  (it doesnt' show this is Exodus, but the similarities between the Ezekiel vision and the the glory cloud in Exodus are very similar, so I'm inferring)

It was likely what the Israelites saw bringing them up out of egypt, and why they built a golden calf, which is the god(s) that brought them up out of egypt. 

So here we have the "choice" between the seen, the cherubim, and the unseen, God.  The created and the creator. 

They took the truth, that the cherubim go wherever the Spirit takes them(and is associated with God, in intimate union), and traded it for a lie, that the cherubim was their god(s).

acts 7
39"But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt. 40They told Aaron, 'Make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who led us out of Egypt—we don't know what has happened to him!'i 41That was the time they made an idol in the form of a calf. They brought sacrifices to it and held a celebration in honor of what their hands had made. 42But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets:

"'Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?
43You have lifted up the shrine of Molech
and the star of your god Rephan,
the idols you made to worship.
Therefore I will send you into exile'j beyond Babylon.

a couple connections:

Moloch is a bull.  In Ezekiel the faces of the cherubim are described.  In one verse it calls the face of a calf, in another it calls it the face of the cherub.

Cherub=bull/calf

The root KRB in aramaic means to plow.  It is unknown in Hebrew. 

[sheila]

2 Thess 2;4  he will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called  GOD or is worshipped,so that he sets's

himself up in God's temple,proclaiming himself to be God.[Rev 13;1-10]      it is not God but a beast with carnal understanding

that rules as God.........now,the serpent was the most subtil beast of the field..    It rules and judges without equity or

righteousness.. It sits in the tokogae judging law...it claims divine appointment to rule over people what is good/evil

  it puts to death who it pleases etc[see Daniel Babylon King..given mind of beast and eat grass like the cattle].

   the first instance that I detect is when the people approached Samuel demanding a 'king' like the nations around them...

   a visible rep of the invisible one.............they have rejected me 'the invisible one'...............

    and the 'great grab' for power to rule over the people/world..continues...both secularly/kings and religiously/priests Religions

[VineBranch]

Well I'll chalk it up to my humble spirit that sees no difference :laugh:

You're probably closer to the truth than I in this one.  :icon_jokercolor:

[dajomaco]

Do you think it is possible, by using our free will,
to purposely not see the difference between good and evil.?

Man starts off not knowing the difference between good and evil.

Man eat from the tree and now sees the difference between good and evil.

Man is reconciled BACK to God.
God has now purposely not remembered to see the difference between good and evil.

Can I enter the Kingdom of God now?

[ded2daworld]

Daj said, "God has now purposely not remembered to see the difference between good and evil."

Wha-a-at???
Explain yourself young man!
IMO, Man knowing good from evil does not reconcile him to God.
God may forgive sins based on his own (Jesus)shed blood but he would have to know the difference
between good and evil to even start to forgive sin.
Our sins aren't just forgiven because God is somekind of kindly old man that is forgetful and kind of winks at sin.
He is a holy righteous God that removes sin on the basis of trust in the shed blood of Jesus Christ which most will never know in this lifetime. :2c:

[dajomaco]

DEd Said IMO, Man knowing good from evil does not reconcile him to God.
Daj said ---Ded that is right-on man.


No longer will one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they will all know Me, from the least to the greatest of them"—this is the Lord's declaration. "For I will forgive their wrongdoing and never again remember their sin."

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. For after He says:
16 This is the covenant I will make with them
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws on their hearts
and write them on their minds,
17 He adds:
I will never again remember
their sins and their lawless acts.[c]
18 Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
For I will be merciful to their wrongdoing,
and I will never again remember their sins.[f][g]
13 By saying, a new covenant, He has declared that the first is old. And what is old and aging is about to disappear.

[eaglesway]

man knowing good from evil has no effect upon is capacity to restrain himself from DOING evil.

I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
(Rom 7:21-25)

Only the cross of Christ destroys the flesh, where evil fourishes, and unleashes the Spirit so that "the one who by the Spirit puts to death the deeds of the flesh shall live", so that

"Walk in the Spirit ad you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh"

How do I, by the Spirit,  put to death the deeds of the flesh?

By reckoning the flesh dead- in my flesh dwells no good thing- only the Spirit gives life, the open door of grace, the key of the renewed mind, laboring diligently to enter the Sabbath rest of the believer.

I, can of my own self do nothing.

I am dead, but Christ lives in me, and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith of the son of God who died and gave Himself for me.

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
(Rom 8:1-2)

[dajomaco]

By reckoning the flesh dead- in my flesh dwells no good thing- only the Spirit gives life, the open door of grace, the key of the renewed mind, laboring diligently to enter the Sabbath rest of the believer.

The phrase:  by reckoning

Could this mean: (by a decision of my free will) decide the flesh is dead to me?