Will

[Molly]

Can you tame freedom, glory, power, and grace without diminishing it?

The answer is Yes.


Hempfling - Signal-Weight-Riding - Bridle-less -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9ehtTrp0c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVciE_KBLYg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P126dqZwcOA

[Molly]

It takes a lot of time to understand the freedom that God brings us into.  The churches are like horse trainers who put the bit in the mouth of the horses and pull back to cause pain whenever the horse does something they don't like.  They put heavy burdens on the horse's back with saddles and tight girths and riders who have no balance or grace.

4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.  Mat 23


But what does God say?


It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. [Gal 5:1]


That means there is something about the characteristic of freedom that God considers to our highest benefit.

The goal is freedom, not slavery, not imposing something which is alien and constricting.

Of course, Satan's view of freedom is that everything will run amuck because that is what Satan does with his freedom.  So first he inspires drugs, sex, and rock and roll as a counterfeit of freedom, and then he puts the bit in the horse's mouth and exerts control through pain.  Maybe he only does the one so that he can do the other.  His nickname is the destroyer.

So many are afraid of freedom because they do not understand that being free to be everything God has created you to be is a glorious thing,-- that's why he calls it, the glorious freedom of the sons of God.

[sheila]

 very High pricple presented here Molly.   :thumbsup:  that black stallion was especially glorious.

[eaglesway]

I Agree Molly. The greatest freedom is to be motivated completely by the love of God in the wisdom of God for the will of God, which is the restoration of all. IMO That is what we, as disciples, sons, and priests are being transformed into.

[ded2daworld]

IMO, God is motivated (solely)souly by Love. It's who He is, It's what he does.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  that's why there is no law against LOVE/SPIRIT.  it is only hate/lawlessness that need be restrained......

    I just can't hardly wait for the new creation...though now we all 'groan'...we all suffer togather.

[eaglesway]

IMO, God is motivated (solely)souly by Love. It's who He is, It's what he does.

Amen, and Jesus is the image of God, Filled with His fulness, and we are being transformed into the same image (the inward image) "For all those who He foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of the son of God :o)

[sheila]

 it's the heart afraid of breaking, that never learns to dance......I say Love it is a flower..and you..it's only seed..

   the Rose. :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

Everyone who is truly "born of God" is a new creation in Christ. As such we are the open portals through which the kingdom of heaven is pouring into the earth. "I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and daughters will prophecy". "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth(in me) as it is in heaven(in Christ)."

If we are open gates, "Be lifted up ye gates, and be lifted up ye everlasting doors, that the King of Glory may come in!" Then the earth is filling up with the glory of God. The banners of the kingdom are the rays of light streaming from the sunrise in His face, which is ours as well if we Behold Him In The Mirror (Fixing our eyes on Jesus).

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the Majestic Glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. Therefore we have a more sure word of prophecy; unto which you do well to pay attention, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns, and the morning star arises in your hearts:
(2Pe 1:16-19)

When is the Majestic Glory testifying that we are well-pleasing in His site? When we prefer one another in love. When we reflect the image of the one we are fixing our eyes upon within the holy of holies in our hearts, with whom we fellowship upon the holy mounts of the renewed mind- Jesus the Lamb.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(2Co 3:17-18)

Glory!  :dsunny:

[dajomaco]

Glory
when I look at this word it seems that there must be a better word to describe
how I felt reading your post Eaglesway

[eaglesway]

That 'better word' will be upon both our lips in the Day when we stand worshipping Him with all creation ;o)

[VineBranch]

IMO, God is motivated (solely)souly by Love. It's who He is, It's what he does.

Exquisite use of wording ded.  I have a friend who says if God had DNA it would be love.

[reFORMer]

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(2Co 3:17-18)

Glory!  :dsunny:

Romans 6 . . .
4 We, then, were entombed together with Him through baptism into death, that, even as Christ was roused from among the dead through the glory of the Father, thus we also should be walking in newness of life.
5 For if we have become planted together in the likeness of His death, nevertheless we shall be of the resurrection also,
6 knowing this, that our old humanity was crucified together with Him, that the body of Sin may be nullified, for us by no means to be still slaving for Sin,
7 for one who dies has been justified from Sin.

[ded2daworld]

and like Eaglesway said Vinebranch(in a different way)
Jesus IS God's DNA and it is indeed love.

[sheila]

 :iagree: the DIVINE NATURE ACTIVATED :banana: :banana:

[VineBranch]

I would like to share where this discussion has lead me so far.

I started this thread thinking I was a devote of Free Will.  Now, I'm not sure.

A long time ago, while I was involved in the intelligent Design argument, I came to understand that not only is the universe designed, so am I.  I told some of the folks with whom I fellowshiped that I thought of it this way.  Say I borrowed your car.  The next day I return with my arm in a cast and say this to you, "...you know as a car your vehicle works great, but as an airplane however, it leaves a lot to be desired."  You might answer by telling me that it was never designed to be an airplane.

My desire to believe in Free Will was based on the notion that somehow we are actively involved in the conclusion of, if not the universe, at least our own lives.  I see now that there is an oxymoron at work here.  I cannot ultimately be designed, and at the same time be free (in the sense of being able to transcend my design).  The only way I could transcend is if I was designed to to so, but that would be a part of my design, and therefore would say nothing of freedom.  I told a friend at work the other day that I didn't think I believed in Free Will.  He looked at me, didn't say a word, just looked.  I saw his lips twitch, his mouth trying to bring forth words, but they weren't coming.  Finely he simply turned away.  Apparently we are changed from glory to glory. (2 Corinthians 3:18)

Free Will has been my obsession for decades, and now, I can simply let it go.  It really isn't important.  I was designed to be in a loving relationship with my father;  it is literally who I was created to be, and who I am!!  Free Will is one of those pieces of dross which fell away, and I'm fine with that.

[ded2daworld]

Dross falling away. I like that.
and being human, I like that you agree with my position :doh: :Peace2:

[micah7:9]

Well Glory! :dsunny:

[sheila]

Creator,Sovereign......we can Not be any other that what HE makes of us.

[micah7:9]

Creator,Sovereign......we can Not be any other that what HE makes of us.

Sheila, not to cause debate but perhaps you meant what I believe and understand, Creator,Sovereign......we can Not be any other that what HE is making of us.  I so love these comforting words,

Jer 18:4  and marred is the vessel that he is making, as clay in the hand of the potter, and he hath turned and he maketh it another vessel, as it was right in the eyes of the potter to make.
Jer 18:5  And there is a word of Jehovah to me, saying:
Jer 18:6  As this potter am I not able to do to you? O house of Israel, an affirmation of Jehovah. Lo, as clay in the hand of the potter, So are ye in My hand, O house of Israel.
:HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[marie glen]

I would like to share where this discussion has lead me so far.

I started this thread thinking I was a devote of Free Will.  Now, I'm not sure.

A long time ago, while I was involved in the intelligent Design argument, I came to understand that not only is the universe designed, so am I.  I told some of the folks with whom I fellowshiped that I thought of it this way.  Say I borrowed your car.  The next day I return with my arm in a cast and say this to you, "...you know as a car your vehicle works great, but as an airplane however, it leaves a lot to be desired."  You might answer by telling me that it was never designed to be an airplane.

My desire to believe in Free Will was based on the notion that somehow we are actively involved in the conclusion of, if not the universe, at least our own lives.  I see now that there is an oxymoron at work here.  I cannot ultimately be designed, and at the same time be free (in the sense of being able to transcend my design).  The only way I could transcend is if I was designed to to so, but that would be a part of my design, and therefore would say nothing of freedom.  I told a friend at work the other day that I didn't think I believed in Free Will.  He looked at me, didn't say a word, just looked.  I saw his lips twitch, his mouth trying to bring forth words, but they weren't coming.  Finely he simply turned away.  Apparently we are changed from glory to glory. (2 Corinthians 3:18)

Free Will has been my obsession for decades, and now, I can simply let it go.  It really isn't important.  I was designed to be in a loving relationship with my father;  it is literally who I was created to be, and who I am!!  Free Will is one of those pieces of dross which fell away, and I'm fine with that.

That's very interesting! I never thought of it quite that way, but I think it's accurate, that 'free will' passes away.. :smile: We were designed with thinking ability and an offshoot of thinking ability is the ability to make choices.. but any choice which differs with God, the Maker's choices, causes us to move away from Him (who is both Life and Perfection, etc). I suppose God's 'other' choice would be no rational creatures.. ever. So isn't this an unavoidable journey we are all on.. and lesson? Unavoidable if there is to be thinking ability, that is. So we are chewing that fruit of knowing good from evil (life from death) and in the 'end' we will firmly realize, as this discussion has pointed out, that any will other than God's will, simply cannot be done, for it becomes the opposite of Perfection, which is nonlife. Then to boot, will occur that (surely?) long 'day' (age?) of the examination and review (judgment) of all things, which will doubly etch and engrave this knowing of good from evil, life from death, upon every heart, mind and psyche.
- The thing that most gets me, though, is how if God is life (itself, the life force, what else could be?) then because He endowed thinking ability, every one suffers, and some even horribly, but He, being life, experiences, suffers and lives through it all, all sufferings which ever occur! Why would He put Himself through all that?! ..I suppose because He's not making an ant farm or robots, but His very own family, and an eternally un-breakable paradise.. Somehow I am quite sure God examined all possibilities before creating, and subsequently has done every single thing, and all things, in order to bring about the absolutely best 'end' result possible. :smile:

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  Right,mICAH..THAT'S WHAT i MEANT :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

MARIE...I LOVE YOUR POST.  GOD ALSO LAY HIS LIFE DOWN IN ORDER TO TAKE IT BACK UP AGAIN/JESUS ONLY DOES

WHAT HE BEHOLDS THE FATHER DOING.  LIKE FATHER/LIKE SON

[micah7:9]

For me, this answers much as to why there is suffering in my walk.
Isa 53:10  And Jehovah hath delighted to bruise him, He hath made him sick, If his soul doth make an offering for guilt, He seeth seed--he prolongeth days, And the pleasure of Jehovah in his hand doth prosper.

1Pe 2:19  for this is gracious, if because of conscience toward God any one doth endure sorrows, suffering unrighteously;
1Pe 2:20  for what renown is it , if sinning and being buffeted, ye do endure it ? but if, doing good and suffering for it , ye do endure, this is gracious with God,
1Pe 2:21  for to this ye were called, because Christ also did suffer for you, leaving to you an example, that ye may follow his steps,
1Pe 2:22  who did not commit sin, nor was guile found in his mouth,
1Pe 2:23  who being reviled--was not reviling again, suffering--was not threatening, and was committing himself to Him who is judging righteously,
1Pe 2:24  who our sins himself did bear in his body, upon the tree, that to the sins having died, to the righteousness we may live; by whose stripes ye were healed,
1Pe 2:25  for ye were as sheep going astray, but ye turned back now to the shepherd and overseer of your souls.
:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

  BEAUTIFUL! MICAH!!!! :girlheart: