Whence this idea in my head that the lake of fire is the death of Christ?

[Speusippus]

Hi all,

It's been about ten years since I used to frequent tentmaker and related fora. (I got my start on Matt Slick's board. ;) ) My name back then was Kris Rhodes, I think. Probably no one remembers me--if anyone from back then is even still here!

Anyway I'm posting because I was trying to remember where I got this idea I have in my head that the lake of fire IS the death of Christ. Is that something any of you have heard before? Or was it my own idiosyncratic conception? I know I thought it was true (or thought it may well be true) ten years ago, but I don't remember if it was my own idea or someone else's.

Anyway, is this something that someone here has heard before and knows where it came from?

Thanks!

[jabcat]

Hey there.  I've only been here since '08, but I've never heard that before. 

[eaglesway]

Actually, tho I never heard of it, i makes sense because.....

Joh 3:19  "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

"Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.
(Joh 12:31-33)

Since everyone is judged by the  Lamb, the laying down of His life in a "free will offering" is the one act by which every act is judged.

Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
(1Co 3:12-15)

"His eyes are as flames of fire"(rev) and "all things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do"(Hebrews)

All this is because He willingly layed down His life. This is why He is the plumbline

[sheila]

  since we have all come out of the church systems..He has been sitting as a purifier and refiner....

   many of our old 'sacred cows' and 'lying doctrines/hay stubble' have already been burned up...

  He will sit and continue to refine us.....   

  I remember when I come out..of religious Babylon...I thought all that I did..I did for nothing!!  all that was

just hay and stubble!! I felt like the biggest spiritual flop!  I thought..How am I going to face Him? All

that for a big lie of men!!!

[ded2daworld]

IMO, the lake of fire is the death of death and hell.

[lomarah]

Hehehe spiritual flops galore around here Sheila!  :mblush:

[sheila]

 :laugh:

[reFORMer]

One of the good things about having never done much of anything to better humanity or glorify God is that if anything significant like that occurs through you're life you know it is NOT you that did it.

[lomarah]

Very true reF! He put quite a few "difficult" people in my path at one time. Told me to love them. I tried and failed miserably. Finally I threw my hands up, sank down on the couch and just cried and cried. I said Lord, I can't love this person. He said, stop feeling like a failure. Nobody can love _________ without Me.

Well that was a lightbulb moment if I ever had one LOL! So I started praying, Lord, if you want me to love this person You're going to have to do it! And I started realizing that I've been "turning the other cheek" rather than talking back. When I noticed it I was shocked. And I KNEW it was all Him because on my own that was something I never could do, no matter how hard I tried!

So I guess spiritual floppage is a good part of the process. :)

[ded2daworld]

John the Baptizer had an advantage in that the Holy Spirit was in him from the time he was in the womb.
Other than John, I can't think of anyone "great" that didn't emerge from failures and setbacks. You're in good company lomarah. :thumbsup:

[lomarah]

Hehe true!!

[eaglesway]

Praise God for His grace in drawing us through the muck and mire of man's concepts and our own confusion into the true knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ!

[sheila]

the thought occurred to me regarding the works being burnt up yet saved as through fire..and how many

would come say 'Lord,Lord..I did this and that in your name" and  Him saying 'get away from me,ye workers

of lawlessness"  and how it is the works that are burnt up..thus no reward..but saved through thefire/ free gift.

  no boasting etc in any 'works' before Him[of the workers of lawlessness=pride/boast] and then

I remember Paul speaking about clanging symbols[blowing trumpets?] because the absence of genuine

  LOVE OF LORD & MANKIND WAS NOT THERE.......and how..this LOVE MOTIVATION IS THE TOUCHSTONE

  THAT HE APPEARS TO MEASURE THE VERACITY OF ANY WORK..and also this...love is as strong as

death, Love being the true essence of the spirit of God..and those that love are born of God..and those

that walk in Love sin not against the Holy spirit but fulfill the LAW[those that don't apparently are the lawless]

   Love never fails...just as HIS SPIRIT THAT HE SENDS FORTH DOESN'T RETURN VOID.

   What the world needs now..is Love sweet Love..no not just for some, but for everyone......

[eaglesway]

That's the only thing that shines in the fire :o)

[sheila]

Mountain of Love....[ I can't help seeing this as Jesus speaking to the fallen church]

   mountain of love,mountain of love,you should be ashamed, you used to be a mountain of love

  but you just changed your name.  Way down below there's a half a million people

   somewhere there's a church with a big tall steeple. Inside the church there's an altar filled with flowers

  wedding bells a ringing that should of been ours

  that's why I'm so lonely, I dream from above, High on a Mountain of love.

[Brad]

How could the second death possibly be the death of Christ?

[ded2daworld]

I'm with Brad on this one.
IMO, the second death has always been in reference to the believer.
Christ died "once for all" and was raised up to "live forevermore" so there is no scriptural support (that I can see) for a second death for Christ - unless this is one of those way out, esoteric, multiple meaning, extraspiritual things the average believer cannot understand. :Peace2:

[Speusippus]

How could the second death possibly be the death of Christ?

Not that Christ dies again, but that it's the very same thing as Christ's death on the cross.

The idea would be that believers dying with Christ is believers having their own "lake of fire experience," while those who don't believe will also die with Christ, and that will be their "lake of fire experience."

[eaglesway]

I don't believe he was saying a second death for Christ.

I thought he was saying the death of Christ- His sacrifice, is the substance of the fire.

Perhaps there should be some clarification.

[lomarah]

Mountain of Love....[ I can't help seeing this as Jesus speaking to the fallen church]

   mountain of love,mountain of love,you should be ashamed, you used to be a mountain of love

  but you just changed your name.  Way down below there's a half a million people

   somewhere there's a church with a big tall steeple. Inside the church there's an altar filled with flowers

  wedding bells a ringing that should of been ours

  that's why I'm so lonely, I dream from above, High on a Mountain of love.

Wow! What is that from? Is it a song?

[eaglesway]

Mountain of Love

http://youtu.be/F5R-_ZUf0wY

[sheila]

 yeah  Lomarah..I remember hearing it back in the "60"s....performed by different artists...

    you know,in regard to Christ's death...He tasted death for every man[believers and unbelievers both,

   I suspect]   

[sheila]

 thanks..Ew.... :friendstu:

[eaglesway]

How could the second death possibly be the death of Christ?

Not that Christ dies again, but that it's the very same thing as Christ's death on the cross.

The idea would be that believers dying with Christ is believers having their own "lake of fire experience," while those who don't believe will also die with Christ, and that will be their "lake of fire experience."

Now I'm Confused :doh:

[eaglesway]

thanks..Ew.... :friendstu:

YW :o)