satan is saved?

[Molly]

Ok, so there is not a rapture of just the believers, then, is this in accord with 1 Thess 4?

The dead in christ rise first--so you are saying all the dead are in Christ?

Then we who remain--means all living people?

Then, what is the second resurrection?

And, who are all those people still outside the city in Rev 22?

[eaglesway]

I am saying that the dead in Christ (those who have fallen asleep in the Lord), precede those who are alive and remain(rapture/parousia), at the first resurrection, which occurs at the coming of the Lord, at the last trumpet(1 cor 15:52, 1 thess 4:16, Mt 24Rev 11:15). We know from john's epistle that "when He appears we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is", and, we shall be changed "in a moment in the twinkling if an eye, at the last trump" and that the "dead" in Christ"(all those who have died in the Lord up until He comes to "gather His elect form the four winds"Mt 24).

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

When Jesus comes in the clouds, the  Hebrews 12: comes with him

[sheila]

all men are either dead in Christ or live unto Christ..He is Lord of the living and the dead.the dead He resurrects

   Joshua 3 crossing the Jordan[baptism of death]

  so when the people broke camp to cross the Jordan[camp of the Holy city] the priests carrying the

  Ark of the covenant went ahead of them.....Now the Jordan is at flood stage[dragon floods/death plague]

  though they pass tyhrough the water].....all during harvest............yet as soon as the preists who

carried the ark reached the Jordan..and their feet touched the waters edge..the water from

upstream stopped flowing. the Preists who carried the ark[testimony of Jesus]..stood firm

on dry ground in the middle of the Jordan.....WHILE ALL ISRAEL PASSED BY[ALL REDEEMED MEN]

  When the whole nation had finished crossing the Jordan...take up 12 stones from the middle of the Jordan

    tell them that the flow off the Jordan[death] was cut off  before the Ark of the covenant of the Lord..

   Death is cut off from the face of all men.

  those overcome of the dragon are the dead in Christ..fallen men in the spiritual warfare with the dragon

  He raises them up

  God has given 'tokens' of the fullness of the spiritual work He is doing.  Joshua's change of garments..

  Paul,as one of the class that were to be saved last[resisted Christ in favour of old covenant] Paul showed this

as being born prematurely.  The gentile believers added by the spirit such as Cornelius and others

who beleived,are but tokens of the FULLNESS OF GOD'S REDEMPTIVE WORK TOWARDS MAN IN CHRIST

   He has given men..these 'tokens' of salvation..the sinners that ate with Christ,the tax-collectors..the harlots

  all of this evidence of 'tokens' of the spirit of HIS FULLNESS........so  all former prostitutes and immoral

women[receive free gift] lepers,blind,deaf,sinners,all that are despised..dogs..etc..whatever former

abhorrant state that man was in when he bore the image of the corrupt...

  God has don ea 'token' work of His spirit in Christ on this earth..but the time of fullness has arrived

  the floodgates of heaven are about to open so that He pour forth a blessing upon man..til there is no more want

[sheila]

now..I ask You......How can He give you more[fullness] when you are curled up in a ball clutching the

"  token" He already give you..and will not open your arms up to receive it?

[sheila]

ok.....Paul kept hoping for the better resurrection[fullness that is in the city..for with just the token of the spirit

we can have access to go in and out but not 'dwell with the Lord forever] we deal with the sin in our flesh

which is a lesser resurrection[resurrection of the righteous and the wicked=sin in our flesh]

  outside are the sinful things in our corrupt flesh[flesh and blood can not inherit] only in the spirit

do we commune with that city and sit in it.[token]..the fullness..the first resurrection is the upward call

to always dwell with the Lord..

  Christ is the resurrection..and His spirit in you/token is what makes you spiritually alive..but it is the fullness of it

that is given that makes a first resurrection[immortal/incorruptible]

  that is why satan can go forth and deceive and war and fight and still overcome..as long as we remain this

good/evil mix in our being..

  this is further evidenced by Jesus bringing to life those who had died..back to a physical existence..yes..

they are living..but they can still be overcome with sin and death as long as they dwell in weakcorrupt flesh

   that city has all former humans in it..raised up in fullness/celestial bodies..and we...with our token

have access to it. But until the time of our fullness/change we can not dwell with the Lord forever in it..

we go in and out

[Molly]

Sheila, are you saying the believers will be the priests that hold back death [stand in the middle of the Jordan] so the rest of humanity can cross over?

[lomarah]

Sheila - wow. I can't even begin to say how much those posts blessed me. And if the Lord is trying to change my garment I am more than willing!

God has done a 'token' work of His spirit in Christ on this earth..but the time of fullness has arrived  the floodgates of heaven are about to open so that He pour forth a blessing upon man..til there is no more want

This made me cry tears of joy.

I thank God for people like you and Card who aren't afraid to speak what the Lord has given you, no matter how likely it is you'll be stoned by men. Those of the church of the Philadelphians.  :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

the Ark of the Covenant is Jesus..He broke through the way for all men to cross over..In reality it is God

that does the work through His son..I am the first and I am the last..that is why we which remain

alive and wait for Him are with the end/last to cross over.

  this is also tesified to in Jacob/Israel..when He returned from Labans land[leprosy]  He sent others ahead

  and Rachael and Joseph and him brought up the rear.

  further testified to in Sos..who is this coming  up from the wilderness[this world/good/evil exercize] like

the sun and the moon and the stars in procession.

   When the heavens roll up like a scroll[in one place/Holy city]] it is all Gods children[that fell to earth]

   dragged back up into heaven/Holy city.....as HE MAKES ALL THINGS NEW

[sheila]

when you start seeing secular newspapers declaring HIGH SPIRITUAL REALITIES in their headlines..

  when you see common musicians speaking HIGH SPIRITUAL TRUTHS in their song lyrics...

  then you can know that He is pouring out His spirit on all flesh.

  when I see or hear of spiritual dreams being given to people who have no or little understanding..

  I know He is pouring out His spirit on all flesh.

  also..when you see satan's reaction and demonic madness to this move of His spirit.....you know

  He is near and even at the door.

[redhotmagma]

Sheila yes amen :HeartThrob:

[seekfirst]

Sheila - wow. I can't even begin to say how much those posts blessed me. And if the Lord is trying to change my garment I am more than willing!

God has done a 'token' work of His spirit in Christ on this earth..but the time of fullness has arrived  the floodgates of heaven are about to open so that He pour forth a blessing upon man..til there is no more want

This made me cry tears of joy.

I thank God for people like you and Card who aren't afraid to speak what the Lord has given you, no matter how likely it is you'll be stoned by men. Those of the church of the Philadelphians.  :HeartThrob:

Re:  speak what the Lord has given ---> stoned by men...

Lomarah, I agree... but I do want to share what the Lord has shown me just this week  (actually reminded me of what He had shown me a few years ago!!)

This will be a bit long -- I share it in sisterly love.

I've been a victim of stone throwing; extremely painful--and I was very discouraged at the time as I had shared what the Lord had shown me joyfully anticipating the hearer's praising, thanking God for His great love, mercy, wisdom.

I finally realized they were not "hearing" the message; they saw only the messenger (one who had separated from all man-organized churches.)

Also on at least one occasion when the Lord had shown me something so spectacular in the book of Job, He very quickly added (not in a still small voice:)  )but in an audible voice: "Now don't go making a teaching out of this, for now it's just for your own growth."

Also, I've been encouraged by like-minded and perhaps like-tempered (personality) friends to share whatever the Lord has shown me and leave it with Him... He will quicken the word to whosoever's heart He wills...

Also (I have many also's!!) very recently He has shown me that He enjoys showing/revealing great spiritual truths to His many, many different "personalitied" children.  Personalities can get in "our" way; but never in the Lord's way...

I'm grateful to Tentmaker Forum for allowing the different writing styles (poetic, prose, etc.)
in sharing what has been learned; to ask questions; to answer questions; or simply to just comment with "Amen...well said."

[lomarah]

 :goodpost:  :cloud9:

[jabcat]

I am saying that the dead in Christ (those who have fallen asleep in the Lord), precede those who are alive and remain(rapture/parousia), at the first resurrection, which occurs at the coming of the Lord, at the last trumpet(1 cor 15:52, 1 thess 4:16, Mt 24Rev 11:15). We know from john's epistle that "when He appears we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is", and, we shall be changed "in a moment in the twinkling if an eye, at the last trump" and that the "dead" in Christ"(all those who have died in the Lord up until He comes to "gather His elect form the four winds"Mt 24).

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

When Jesus comes in the clouds, the  Hebrews 12: comes with him

:thumbsup:  That seems scripturally sound John.

[jabcat]

Suggestion - clarifying, questioning - even disagreeing - isn't stoning.

But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;

but test all things. Hold on to what is good.   I Thes. 5:21

[jabcat]

I'm grateful to Tentmaker Forum for allowing the different writing styles (poetic, prose, etc.)
in sharing what has been learned; to ask questions; to answer questions; or simply to just comment with "Amen...well said."

Amen..well said.   :bigGrin:

[Molly]

Suggestion - clarifying, questioning - even disagreeing - isn't stoning.

But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;

but test all things. Hold on to what is good.   I Thes. 5:21

:thumbsup:


I was gonna say, Who's stoning Sheila?  :laugh:

I have more questions but, I'm taking a break now.

[lomarah]

Ahaha no one here is stoning Sheila, I didn't mean that!

[jabcat]

Ahaha no one here is stoning Sheila, I didn't mean that!

:eek:    :laugh:    :thumbsup:

[jabcat]

if so, we're using some awfully soft rocks   :LH:    :HeartThrob:

or maybe we just all throw like girls   :footmouth:

[lomarah]

Any sharing of anything different from what the majority believes is always liable to bring stoning. I'm not saying that anyone has stoned her here. Only that she is risking it for truth's sake.

[lomarah]

if so, we're using some awfully soft rocks   :LH:    :HeartThrob:

or maybe we just all throw like girls   :footmouth:

Alright now YOU are liable to get stoned Mr jab! Come on a bit closer and I'll show you how hard a girl can throw!! ROFLOL

[jabcat]

 :help:

[lomarah]

 :thewife:

HAHAHAHA

[seekfirst]

Jabcat --Lomarah

Oh those wonderful personalities.... I think I'll go make myself a cup or two of cappuccino... happy stoning!!!!!!!!  the gentle--oops-- the gender way !!!!

[sheila]

.....that's the way it's always been...first thing that happened to Peter after he followed the Holy spirits leading was he got

accused..."YOU WERE IN A GENTILE'S HOUSE..AND THAT IS UNLAWFUL"

     there was no little commotion about it.  We all expierence it when we try and share with others out in

  christendom/babylon.

  seems like we don't want anything 'changed' and thats the very thing we need. It is less 'scary' to stay where we are

  then to 'step out' in faith.  'I will lead them by a way they have not traveled before"

   add to that all the legitimate warnings of deception ..and that we are to be 'cautious'......

  what else you gonna do?

   at the mouth of two or three wittness's let every matter be established.