satan is saved?

[micah7:9]

Well said means the person has expressed a view in a way they would have responded to the post if the other had not posted first.
Amen actually means "So be it" but in recent years it has changed to mean, "I agree with you wholeheartedly"

I know what you're saying Micah and it's a tough call for me.
On the one hand, do I allow others to do as they will to me and my family in the name of total reliance on and dependence on the Lord?"
On the other hand, do I do what I can to help, save, and or protect myself and family?

Do you wear a seatbelt only because it's the law of the land or because you aren't totally trusting God to protect you.
God gave us a brain to use and statistics don't lie - seatbelts save lives - because you are wearing it for God's sake?
IMO, God wants us to use seatbelts even though he could miraculously intervene (and I've seen that happen also)

Hopefully, I won't ramble this much in later posts :Pray:

I do not wear a seat belt, I know it's a law, but I find the law and infringement on my my safety. As for statistics,  I have not seen nor heard of statistics on how many would have lived had they not worn seat belts. Besides, should it not be a persons choice as to whether they use a seat belt or not?  I speak as a voting citizen.

[sheila]

Ezekiel 34;17  As for you,my flock,this is what the Sovereign Lord says,'I will judge between one sheep

and another. and between rams and goats.........See...I  myself will judge between a fat sheep and a lean sheep.

  YOU,MY SHEEP  the sheep of my pasture..are people,and I am your God.


  wow..look what sheep do!  Is it not enough for you to feed on the good pasture? Must you also trample

  the rest of your pasture with your feet?Is it not enough for you to drink clear water,but must you

muddy the rest with your feet?Must my flock feed on what you have trampled and drink what you have muddied

  with your feet.

  See, I myself will judge between the fat and lean sheep,Because you shove with flank and shoulder

  butting all the weak sheep with your horns,until you have driven them away. I will save my flock,and they

will no longer be plundered.I will judge between one sheep and another. I will place over them one shepherd

My servant David,and He will tend them. I the Lord will be their God and my servant David will be Prince among

them

If a man think he does a righteous work, and say  zealously go off  taking you to court,accuse you and

kill you and think he does God a favour..will not that evil pretend religious spirit go off into the fire when

ordered so". Did not Paul shake a serpent into the fire?The islanders thought devine justice had seized him,

  that work of Pauls hand was surely burnt up in the fire.....he counted it all loss..those works of righteousness

  But Paul was saved..as through fire.[serpent shaken into fire]..Paul,Paul,why do you persecute me?



.  there are wolves in sheeps clothes[flesh of men/evil spirits in mens hearts]

   SHEEPS ARE PEEPS!!

 
  The disciple came to Him and asked.."why do you speak to the people in parables?"

  the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you,but to others I speak in parables

  so that,,though seeing they may not see;though hearing they may not understand.

 

[sheila]

Dan 8  Look at the Vision of the RAM and GOat....Ezekiel 34;17....and between Rams and Goats.

[sheila]

 Dan 8;16  Gabriel,tell this man the meaning of the vision. As he came near the place I was standing

  I was terrified and fell prostrate..'Son of man,he said to me..UNDERSTAND that the vision

concerns the time of the end.....

   I will tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath...Because the Vision concerns the

appointed time of the end.   The two-horned ram represents THE KINGS of Media and Persia

the shaggy GOAT is the King of Greece[principalities in high places]   He will cause deceit to prosper

  he will take his stand against the prince of princes

  the goat set himself up to be as great as the Prince of the Host,it took away the daily sacrifice from him,

and the place of his sanctuary was brought low. Because of rebellion the host of the saints and the daily

sacrifice were given over to it...AND TRUTH WAS THROWN TO THE GROUND.

  when Jesus seperates the people as sheep from goats...He makes a distinction of those who because

of rebellion come under the goat[speak boastfully..take away daily sacrifice..throw truth to the ground...

  UNTIL...........

   what do you think the daily sacrifice taken away from Prince of the Host is?

[reFORMer]

For me, unless I've misunderstood him, the thing Pierson taught, that everybody is already saved, simply grieves my heart.  It's a far fall from being a witness to the truth of God as "the savior of all mankind, specially those that believe."

[jabcat]

For me, unless I've misunderstood him, the thing Pierson taught, that everybody is already saved, simply grieves my heart.  It's a far fall from being a witness to the truth of God as "the savior of all mankind, specially those that believe."

I agree.  IMO, we can go too far one way or another.  Deceit is deceit.  Preaching eternal torment hurts people, teaching everyone they're already "A-OK" also hurts them.   :2c:

[sheila]

well,I believed their already saved by His sacrifice.  But only this needs be done by Him...As I judged

  your Fathers in the desert of the land of Egypt,so will I judge you,declares the Sovereign Lord.

   I WILL TAKE NOTE OF YOU AS YOU PASS UNDER THE ROD[whether a rod of wrath and shepherded

  with an iron rod/nations and broken as of pottery by Him..or disciplined here and now] And I will bring

you into the BOND of the covenant. I will purge you of those who rebel and revolt against me....

although I will bring them out of the land where they living,yet they will not enter the Land of Isreal.[lof]

  the purging I see Jesus doing is the casting out of unclean,evil spirits.

   A free gift is a free gift....a reward something else.

[jabcat]

If they're already saved, why would there be so many instructions (including Paul to the jailor) on how to be saved (believe)?  Also, why would Paul make such distinctions between those in the faith and those not, as well as saying we're ambassadors to proclaim to folks to "be reconciled to God"?  As I understand, yes, it's all the free gift.  However, God has reconciled Himself to mankind through the sacrifice/gift of His Son, but all mankind has not as yet been reconciled to God (been spiritually reborn).  Only some in this age (only as God wills) the rest in the age(s) to come.  In order.  Every knee WILL bow (future tense) and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord.  How is one saved/spiritually reborn according to the scriptures?  "If you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth Jesus.. you will be saved" - "no one can confess Jesus as Lord but IN (literal translation) the Holy Spirit".   IMO, if I tell people they're OK whether they believe or not, I may be participating in setting them up for kolasin aionios.   :2c:  (and speaking of rewards for the saved - I imagine mine will be few).

[jabcat]

P.S.  I DON"T believe in condemning people or judging them.  I believe we are to love and help them.  But (even though I do a lousy job of it) I DO believe in sharing with them Jesus is the Savior and asking if they'd like to call on Him to save and forgive them.  (I also know there are things I don't understand or have a full/clear picture of.  Also, anything I am or ever will be is only by His grace and mercy.)   :HeartThrob:

[ded2daworld]

Surely knowing God/Jesus and having a personal relationship with him in this life
is preferable to going your whole life without understanding or seeing the truth.
IMO, People want to hear "everything is allright" so they can continue to "do their own thing" and mess up their own life.
Just as atheist don't want there to be a God, each person just wants to "do what's right in their own eyes."

History shows this is disastrous. Honoring God and others is love centered.
Doing whatever you want because "it'll all be OK in the end" is self-centered.

[micah7:9]

As to the post question, "satan[adversary]is saved? My answer would be a yes.
Or the ALL in ALL would not be ALL in ALL. 1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

How or why, well that is a question as well. The way I understand it, God the Creator has a purpose and reason for ALL things and one of all those things was an ruthless and fearful adversary.
Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
That is a truth.

And I believe all who the Father has drawn to Jesus, is in the process of being saved[made whole, healed] imo.

[lomarah]

SHEEPS ARE PEEPS!!

Ahahaha I almost fell out of my seat with laughter! That was too cute Sheila. :)

I think the problem here is, what is everyone's definition of being saved? Sheila may have something different in mind than the rest of you maybe? Personally, being saved to me means (at least in part) being freed from sin (and deception falls into the category of sin). It is obvious that most of the human race are still slaves to sin (myself included) and are thus at present either "not saved" (unbelievers and "Christians" by name only), or are being saved (true believers who press in and seek and experience the changing power of God and the progressive freeing from sin).

To me, until I am as free as Jesus was, as free from sin as He was, until I am like Him in this world, I am still in the process of being saved. I am still part of the groaning creation, longing for the glorious freedom of the Sons of God. I get tastes and glimpses.... and I have never longed for anything more than Him. Ohhhhh I get so excited thinking about it!!! The whole creation being set free... just think of it!!!

[dajomaco]

I did not know I was saved.
Until I believed .
Once I believed I was saved the Holy Spirit showed me.
Showed me that I was already saved.

I could not know that I was already saved until after I believed .

I can tell some one that they ARE ALLREADY SAVED .
But unless they believe my words have no power.
I know every thing will come clean in the wash.

Unless the Holy Spirit reveals the power in my words.

So if you are lead of the Holy Spirit speak words of Salvation .

Is Satan saved eventually?
Everything I know tells me God is eternal .
There is no darkness in him.
There is no --------     in him.
I will eternally know that there is no -------- in him.
What is -------- that I will know for all of eternity that God has none of.
I will know for all eternity what ----------  is. How -------- made the light
attractive to me .That Jesus had Saved me from --------.

[micah7:9]

--------= darkness?

[Lazarus Short]

Ohhhhh I get so excited thinking about it!!! The whole creation being set free... just think of it!!!

The Law of the Jubilee gives us a glimpse of that "being set free" in the world of the here-and-now.  Everyone who has had to sell himself into slavery goes free, and can return to their inheritance, their home, the "old home place."

[eaglesway]

I did not know I was saved.
Until I believed .
Once I believed I was saved the Holy Spirit showed me.
Showed me that I was already saved.

I could not know that I was already saved until after I believed .

I can tell some one that they ARE ALLREADY SAVED .
But unless they believe my words have no power.
I know every thing will come clean in the wash.

Unless the Holy Spirit reveals the power in my words.

So if you are lead of the Holy Spirit speak words of Salvation .

Is Satan saved eventually?
Everything I know tells me God is eternal .
There is no darkness in him.
There is no --------     in him.
I will eternally know that there is no -------- in him.
What is -------- that I will know for all of eternity that God has none of.
I will know for all eternity what ----------  is. How -------- made the light
attractive to me .That Jesus had Saved me from --------.

Sounds nice and sweet, but runs contrary to the scriptures. All those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. A provision has been made for our reconciliation- the blood of Jesus, and for the whole world also, but they are not yet saved, unless the have received the reconciliation. Was Noah's generation already saved? What efficacy then the ark? Why build it at all?

Luk 8:12  Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. - Jesus

But Jesus, don't you know? They were already saved!

Joh 5:34  But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. - Jesus

But Jesus, don't you know? They were already saved!

Joh 10:9  I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. -Jesus

But Jesus, don't you know? They were already saved!

Joh 8:23-24  And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.



Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved(realize that you are already saved), and thy house.
(Act 16:30-31)

It is one thing to REALIZE THE PROVISION HAS BEEN ALREADY MADE FOR OUR DELIVERANCE AND BELIEVE IT AND RECEIVE IT. It is another thing to think you were already saved, and teach it as the gospel. IMO, that language exceeds the revelation of Jesus and the apostles.

[dajomaco]

For you are saved by grace through faith,
and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift—

Then everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people, and we must be saved by it."

"Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."

I don't know I am saved until I believe.
I know I am not saved by my believe I am saved by grace
My abilities to believe is a gift.
Won for me by Jesus given freely.
Not as reward for my believe
but as an encouragement for me, to keep seeking the truth.
When I found out I didn't have to love Jesus.
I was free to Love him.
When I found out I didn't have to believe.
I was free to believe because it was the truth.
You can only be free to know and find the truth if you are willing to risk
finding a lie.


If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

[eaglesway]

That all sounds nice and I agree- you can't know you are under a lie until you see the truth. That is by grace and until you see it you are under the lie. That is what you get saved from, and while you are under it, you are not yet saved from it. 

[reFORMer]

I had just come in and turned on the TV.  It came on with a live broadcast just about a mile or so from me.  I think I can quote what he said.  Carlton Pierson just began with "Now brethren, I know I'm going to touch a sacred cow here," mentioning how we need to take a closer look at what we're teaching when we make God worse than Stalin or Iddy Ammin (sp?)  That was all of it!

In the next couple of days I saw them lie about him.  Paul Crouch said something false about him.  I saw Pat Robertson say he was teaching another way of salvation other than Jesus.  His female sidekick said, "I believe I'll just stay with my Bible, Pat."

I presume that was in reference to what I've been accused of too.  If people don't accept Jesus before they die and you say they'll eventually be saved anyway, the torture lovers say you teach they'll be saved by fire, another way than Jesus.  But scripture says, "...each one's work will become apparent, for the day will make it evident, for it is being revealed by fire. And the fire, it will be testing each one's work -- what kind it is.  If anyone's work will be remaining which he builds on it, he will get wages.  If anyone's work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus, as through fire." (1 Co 3^13-15, CLT)

But what Carlton Pierson taught, unless I've misunderstood him,  that everybody is already saved, simply grieves my heart.  It's a far fall from being a witness to the truth of God as "the savior of all mankind, specially those that believe." (1 Ti 4¹⁰)  What a witness to the truth he might've been we can only wonder; but, that people practicing homosexuality don't have to repent?  They're already saved?  There was a news hour for television that brought out these things about Carlton.  That it should become such a fiasco, falsely confirming what many have been wrongly taught is the inevitable result of believing in Universal Salvation is very hard to take!

It is so rebuked by the presence of many sincere and devout Christians worldwide who know the salvation of God.  They couldn't exist if Carlton's friends and their doctrine were correct.  Jesus was called a friend of sinners, but He told them to change their minds.  Most people who've come out of a gay lifestyle don't go around with a target on their back, advertising themselves as "ex-gay."  That many are married, going to work to provide for their families and regularly participating in local church groups is a hated truth that radical elements want to silence.  It's very similar to alcoholism, as far as going in the right way is concerned.  Live in those sins of the flesh and you are not inheriting the realm in which God is in control.

1 Co 6^9-11, Concordant Literal...
9 Or are you not aware that the unjust shall not be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom? Be not deceived. Neither paramours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor catamites, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; no revilers, no extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom.
11 And some of you were these, but you are bathed off, but you are hallowed, but you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.

[dajomaco]

Live in those sins of the flesh and you are not inheriting the realm in which God is in control.

Live in those (good deeds) of the flesh and you are not inheriting the realm in which God is in control.

[eaglesway]

That is absolutley tru, the flesh profits nothing, only the spirit gives life.


Rom 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

God knows who is in the flesh and who is in the spirit.

But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."
(2Ti 2:16-19)

[jabcat]

But what Carlton Pierson taught, unless I've misunderstood him,  that everybody is already saved, simply grieves my heart.  It's a far fall from being a witness to the truth of God as "the savior of all mankind, specially those that believe." (1 Ti 4¹⁰)  What a witness to the truth he might've been we can only wonder; but, that people practicing homosexuality don't have to repent?  They're already saved?  There was a news hour for television that brought out these things about Carlton.  That it should become such a fiasco, falsely confirming what many have been wrongly taught is the inevitable result of believing in Universal Salvation is very hard to take!

Unfortunately, I believe what you say is correct.

It is so rebuked by the presence of many sincere and devout Christians worldwide who know the salvation of God.  They couldn't exist if Carlton's friends and their doctrine were correct.  Jesus was called a friend of sinners, but He told them to change their minds.

Agreed.  Good post.

[sheila]

well,now..the jews had a hard time accepting  God's mercy to gentiles..and God extending that to

others,in thier day. The disciples also were accused of  of the same thing.Every time God makes a

a move to 'increase His Glory' in the Priesthood..satan is  resisting[Joshua's change of Garments.]

  One thing to remembe;r the hard time of transition from law to grace back in Jesus day....

  Don't forget..in the last days He pours out His spirit on ALL FLESH..now certainly it is His spirit

that sanctifies..even more than any man repenting or anything else.Everything is accomplished of His spirit

  what..a man saying 'i repent' has more power then God pouring out His Holy spirit and sanctifying?


also,do NOT forget the weightier matters of the LAW OF LOVE  that Our God has..such as JUSTICE

and MERCY[all men bear the image of the corrupt,all shall bear the image of the incorrupt one]

   Legally through God's law..they are all justified.

  God and Christ will move along at thier own pace...those who do not move with them will be left behind.

  Now Jesus Christ revelation the first time...made the religious leaders of the day lose some of their

'exclusiveness" and now Christian churches are feeling the same..with this ALL inclusiveness that

is declared of God.

  Who is going to stop GOD and JESUS from raising someone from the dead? You? Me?

  The GLORY OF GOD AND JESUS CHRIST SALVATION OF ALL CAN NOT BE STOPPED BY MEN

can not be stopped by satan..nor any power.

  First the LOVE of GOD that will have ALL MEN SAVED..The JUSTICE of GOD that All men bear the image

of HIS SON.

Now..when salvation went forth to the gentiles..God evidenced it by pouring out His Holy spirit on them..

  He had to give a vision to Peter 3 times for him to catch on to what God was doing....be looking

for things like this. as He moves....Peter had to testify..and say..what else was I to think..should

I resist God? when He give them the Holy spirit?

   Now,God took out a people for His name..and satan made a move against them..God again made a

move and brought in Gentiles..and satan moved against them..God is now making a move and

shall take all men...and satan is moving against them.

all men shall be receivers of the grace of God..jew..christians..all[sinners]......

  He's trying to change your Preistly garments..but satan is resisting

[Molly]

Sheila, what's your opinion of the 'rapture' described in 1 thess 4?

Is all humanity going to participate in that?  Or just the elect?

[sheila]

ALL............. so if God gave them the same gift as He gave us,who believed in the Lord Jesus,

  who was I to think I could oppose God?

....and in the last days,I shall pour out my spirit on all flesh.