Could we get personal about UR

[omantodd2000]

Maybe you are missing my point:o)  I am not trying to disagree with your statement about the eloah. I am saying there is not enough empirical evidence in that to exclude the voice of YHWH from the response to the creation of light and limit it to the angels.

In my post, that you responded to, I was introducing the question/idea, "Did God experience anything in the creation". My point was directed to whether, as some seem to infer, that everything is such a foregone conclusion that God does not experience anything as that which is finished in His mind, "becomes real" in time.

My point with you has been STRICTLY LIMITED as to whether or not the plural use of elohiym somehow affects that in some way. I don't think it does.

Well you can never exclude YHWH in any of it, the angles or eloah do only Gods will.  Well we will just agree to disagree then as I don't think it is even talking about God directly but of angels.

[Paul L]

author=VineBranch link=topic=10878.msg146443#msg146443 date=1355809364]

"Actually Vine Branch, I haven't been taking any shots at you. It seemed to me you misinterpreted Deds post, I was simply attempting to respond ideologically."   (Eaglesway, Reply #77, December 17, 2012, 09:11:19 AM)

Are you serious?  You left a paper trail.  Seriously dude, denial is a lie and not an option.  Allow me to refresh your memory.

"You are misundrstanding what ded said. All black and white, eh? There are many levels to the mysteries of the scriptiures, you have to read what people say and try to understand what they are saying.....not jump off the cuff with assumptions." (Reply #52)  First you interpret what I say and instead of calling it different, you call it wrong (I didn't understand it correctly), then you take my thought processes to task (accusing me of seeing things only in black and white).  Thirdly you accuse me of not trying to understand the post and then jumping of a cuff (I have no idea what that means).

"I think Ded said He knew it before intellectually (meaning, IN THE MIND OF GOD) and experienced it in time with Abraham- that is what I got right off, I think you need to re-read it ALL slowly and thoroughly :o)" (Reply #59)  You don't think that condescending, using yourself as the paragon of understanding and giving remedial advise to one who saw it differently?


"You can't speak clearly enough for someone determined not to hear you." (Reply #75)  You actually placed this right after a direct quote from me.

I would advise you to re-read reply 73 by Lazarus short (if you read it at all) .   I got what he said right away, but the fact that you continued to keep this going after he posted his reply shows me you didn't.  In order for you to have the right understanding, you might want to re-read it slowly and thoroughly:  I know how you hate it when people don't do that.

VB,

I presume you understand the concept of Preterism Theology alias Replacement Theology. Eagleway is hardcore Replacement Theology, that is that the Christian Church has become the inheritor of the promises God has given to Israel. He makes no wall of separation between Body of Christ Saints & Israelite Saints. Until such a time as the Christian church knuckles under & recognizes this distinction, it will continue to twist & mangle plain & clearly written words of Holy Writ to suit  unfounded conclusions, the conclusions of Replacement Theology.

Christ's ministry was to Israelite saints, he clearly stated his ministry was to the House of Israel, not Gentiles, he spoke nothing of the Body of Christ. It is the Apostle Paul who introduced the Body of Christ to the world, thus began a whole new era of salvation to all, a revelation heretofore unheard of from the time of Moses.

Body of Christ saints have different promises than Israelite saints. Body of Christ saints must undergo change of their mortal bodies to immortal bodies to inherit their promises which exist beyond the environs of planet earth. Israelite saints are returned to their mortal bodies when they are resurrected, the prophetic text in Ezekiel 37 plainly attests to this. This of course is in sharp variance to the statements made by the apostle Paul that those who go up with Christ in the resurrection of the Body of Christ will be "changed", 1 Cor 15:51-54, a heretofore unknown secret has been revealed by Paul of a resurrection that involves "changed" bodies, this  is in sharp variance to what Ezekiel speaks of as a resurrection back to the same old flesh & blood for Israelite saints. Body of Christ saints have different promises than Israelite saints, I don't want to come back as flesh & blood & undergo this fleshly life stuff all over again.

[ded2daworld]

I know it is only the words of Paul but:

Rom 10:10-13 -
"10 When we believe in our hearts, we are made right with God. We tell with our mouth how we were saved from the punishment of sin. 11 The Holy Writings say, "No one who puts his trust in Christ will ever be put to shame." 12 There is no difference between the Jews and the people who are not Jews. They are all the same to the Lord. And He is Lord over all of them. He gives of His greatness to all who call on Him for help. 13 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved from the punishment of sin."

[micah7:9]

"Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall He make to understand DOCTRINE? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts [ready for solid foods and Paul would say]. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon LINE; HERE a little, and THERE a little" (Isa. 28:9-10).

So what real, Scriptural, justification is there for teaching that God has TWO different groups of saints?, who were taught TWO different gospels?, who are saved by TWO different methods (works and grace)?, who are looking for TWO different comings of our Lord?, who will be resurrected at TWO different times?, at TWO different places?, with TWO different bodies (terrestrial and celestial)?, for TWO different callings and expectations?, always being with Christ at TWO different locations?, and having TWO different rewards (one "UNUTTERABLY HIGHER" THAN THE OTHER)?, when the facts of God's Word tells us otherwise?

That there were, historically and Scripturally, two different groups of people who received the ONE gospel, there can be no question. Jesus came unto His own (Israel) and except for those designated for the kingdom beforehand, as a nation Israel rejected Him and crucified Him. But Jesus told His disciples after marveling over the faith of one Gentile Centurion, that

"... MANY shall come from the east and the west [Gentiles], and shall sit down WITH Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the Kingdom of Heaven [not to some different calling at a different location]..." (Mat. 8:11-12).

Clearly the Gentile saints are going to be WITH the Jewish saints in the Kingdom of Heaven!

Jesus Christ Himself foretold of the one union of these two different peoples:

"And other sheep have I which are not of this fold. Those also I must be leading, and they will be hearing My voice, and there will be O-N-E FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD" (John 10:16)!

Since our Lord says that there is "ONE flock and ONE Shepherd" who is man to SPLIT THEM INTO TWO?

"What GOD then, yokes together, let not MAN be SEPARATING" (Mat. 29:6)!

Paul told the Thessalonian Gentile (and Jewish) saints that they would all be

"... unblamable in holiness in front of our God and Father, in the presence of our Lord Jesus with ALL HIS SAINTS" (I Thes. 3:13)!

And Zechariah said,

"And the Lord, my God, shall come, And ALL THE SAINTS WITH HIM" (Zech. 14:7)!

Now, how many groups of "ALL the saints" are there? We object to those who would make two different groups of the "all" in I Cor. 15:22,

"For even as in Adam, ALL are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall ALL be vivified."

Clearly these are both the SAME "ALL."

And so it is with "ALL" the saints. We are not speaking of ALL the saints verses ALL the unbelievers. That would be two different groups. But no, we are speaking of "ALL the saints"(I Thes. 3:13), and "ALL the saints" (Zech. 14:7). If "all the saints" are not included in "ALL the saints," then maybe we should start looking for another form of communication that doesn't use words.

Do we think that Jesus prayed in vain

"Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, in which Thou hast given them to Me, that they be one, according as We are" (John 17:11)

"... That they all may be ONE" ... "That they also may be ONE in US..." (Ver 21),

"... that they may be ONE, according as We are ONE ... that they may be perfected in ONE ..." (Ver 22).

Later Paul taught us that,

"For even as, in one body, we have many members, yet all the members have not the same function, thus we, who are many, are ONE body in Christ ..." (Rom. 12:4).

Whoever is "IN Christ" is ONE--ONE body. For there is only ONE body:

"I am entreating you, then ... keep the unity of the spirit with the tie of peace: ONE BODY ..." (Eph. 4:1,3-4).

Now just in case someone has the audacity to suggest that the "one body" of this one verse is only in the CONTEXT of these verses, let me present the following:

According to Eph. 4:1-5, how many "Gods" are there? "ONE God and Father of all ..." (Ver 5). How many "Lords" are there? "... ONE Lord ..." (Ver 5). Is someone seriously going to suggest that it is only in the "CONTEXT" of these verses that there is ONE God and ONE Lord?

Yes, there is but ONE God and ONE Lord--in this "context" or in ANY context! And, if one insists on "contexts," then also in this context there is but: "ONE body and ONE spirit, according as you were called also with ONE expectation of your calling; ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE God and Father of all, Who is over all and through all and in all" (Eph. 4:4-5)! I am convinced that there are probably a THOUSAND ways to prove that there are not TWO different groups of saints that will be raised at two separate comings of our Lord.

Let's notice just one more in these verses. Notice that there is "... one SPIRIT ..." Notice also that there is a "... UNITY of the spirit ..." Okay then, by the unity of one spirit the apostles (and Circumcision Saints) were made ONE in Christ and the Father (John 17). Now Paul comes along and is inspired to tell us (Uncircumcision Saints) that we should "... KEEP the unity of the spirit ..." Let me suggest in all sincerity that one does not "keep the unity of the spirit" by splitting asunder the very saints that make up that unity! And there are so many examples of this truth.

Notice:

"I am the true Grapevine, and My Father is the Farmer ... I am the Grapevine. You are the branches" (John 15:1 & 5).

Paul thoroughly explains this in a similar metaphor in Rom. 11.

"... if the root is holy, the boughs are also. Now if some of the boughs are broken out [the Jews], yet you, being a wild olive [Gentiles], are grafted among them [not on a different olive tree], and become JOINT participant [not a separate, different, more 'holier than thou' group of saints] of the root and fatness of the olive, be not VAUNTING over the boughs. Yet if you are vaunting, you are not bearing the root, but the root you."

"Vaunting." Vaunting is vain boasting. Need I reiterate the attitude that goes along with this secret rapture theory? Listen again to what we have read:

"But our future allotment will not simply be glorious. That would not be too strong a term for the allotment of Israel on the earth. OURS WILL BY FAR TRANSCEND IT." (Page 51, Consolation in Expectation).

"But this is not OUR calling! WE will not be the lowest on earth, BUT THE HIGHEST IN THE HEAVENS!" (Page 48).

"This new faith, which made the nations the peer of Israelites in an allotment UNUTTERABLY HIGHER than that which they will have upon the earth ..." (Page 51).

Notice what God says regarding such attitudes:

"Be NOT haughty, but fear. For if God spares not the natural boughs, neither will He be sparing YOU!" (Rom. 11:20-21).

Paul then explains that when Israel is again grafted back into the same olive tree, they will be every bit as glorious as those (Gentiles) who were grafted in from a wild olive tree! So

"God locks up all together [both Jews and Gentiles] in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to ALL [Jews and Gentiles]" (Ver 32).

And so a few verses later Paul tells us that we who are many [Jews and Gentiles, all believers, ALL the saints] "... ARE ONE BODY IN CHRIST" (Rom. 12:5). Listen, Paul's thoughts and prayers were always with the Jewish saints in Judea (Rom. 9:3), and Peters thoughts and prayers were always with the Gentile believers under Paul's care (II Pet. 3:15-16).

Peter read and studied "... ALL the [Paul's] epistles ..." In Rom. 15:4 Paul says "... that through the endurance and the consolation of the SCRIPTURES we may have expectation." The only Scriptures at this time were the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures. And any "expectation" of the Gentiles would be one shared with Israel. Later Paul says that Christ came to the Circumcision, "... to confirm the patriarchal promises" (Rom. 15:8). With this promise in mind, Paul says, "... it is written ...'Be merry, ye nations, WITH HIS PEOPLE [Israel]" (Ver 9 & 10).

Can't we believe these verses? The Gentiles have their expectation "WITH" God's people Israel. Not in a reward that is a million light years away and a million times higher than "His people, Israel.:" Jump across the page, "... yet now I [Paul] am going to Jerusalem, DISPENSING [service] TO THE SAINTS [Circumcision Jews]!" (Rom. 15:26). Paul said that Macedonia and Achaia are delighted to send contributions to the poor saints in Jerusalem. He says that "For they are delighted, and they are their DEBTORS, for if the nations PARTICIPATE in their SPIRITUAL things, they ought to minister to them in fleshly things also" (Ver. 27).

The Gentiles participate in the spiritual things of ISRAEL!

The Gentiles' "consolation in expectation" is found in the Hebrew Old Testament concerning ISRAEL. They are now "ONE body, in Christ [with Israel]." They "PARTICIPATE in THEIR [Israel's] spiritual things" The Gentiles who were "... alienated from the citizenship of Israel and strangers of the promise covenants, having NO expectation, and WITHOUT God in the world ... nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, that He should be creating the TWO [Circumcision Jews and Uncircumcision Gentiles], in Himself, into ONE new humanity, making peace; and should be reconciling both in ONE BODY to God ... for through Him we both [Jews and Gentiles] have had access, in ONE spirit ... Consequently, then, no longer are you strangers and sojourners, but are FELLOW-CITIZENS OF THE SAINTS [The Circumcision Saints] and belong to God's family ..." (Eph. 2:12-19). (L. R. S.)

[Paul L]

author=micah7:9 link=topic=10878.msg146464#msg146464 date=1355846327]

So what real, Scriptural, justification is there for teaching that God has TWO different groups of saints?

Exactly what I pointed out in the two extraordinarily differently described resurrections. That which Paul spoke of in which those of the Body of Christ are "changed" to immortality, and those which Ezekiel pointed out in chap 37 that the House of Israel is resurrected only to return to flesh & blood. It's simply a matter of accepting the words of the text & then musing about why such a stark difference.

Body of Christ saints do not operate concurrent with Israelite saints, that is why there are two much differently described resurrections. Body of Christ saints live within the period of the commencement of the Apostle Paul's ministry ushering in the age of grace & the end of that age. The age of grace concludes when the Body is removed & the time for fulfillment of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy commences.

[micah7:9]

Did you miss the word ONE?

[Molly]

Interesting,Paul.

I've been nibbling around the edges of this, myself.

God divorced the house of Israel, but he never divorced the house of Judah.

So I can't really see how calling Judah a bride of Christ makes  a lot of sense.

[eaglesway]

author=VineBranch link=topic=10878.msg146443#msg146443 date=1355809364]

"Actually Vine Branch, I haven't been taking any shots at you. It seemed to me you misinterpreted Deds post, I was simply attempting to respond ideologically."   (Eaglesway, Reply #77, December 17, 2012, 09:11:19 AM)

Are you serious?  You left a paper trail.  Seriously dude, denial is a lie and not an option.  Allow me to refresh your memory.

"You are misundrstanding what ded said. All black and white, eh? There are many levels to the mysteries of the scriptiures, you have to read what people say and try to understand what they are saying.....not jump off the cuff with assumptions." (Reply #52)  First you interpret what I say and instead of calling it different, you call it wrong (I didn't understand it correctly), then you take my thought processes to task (accusing me of seeing things only in black and white).  Thirdly you accuse me of not trying to understand the post and then jumping of a cuff (I have no idea what that means).

"I think Ded said He knew it before intellectually (meaning, IN THE MIND OF GOD) and experienced it in time with Abraham- that is what I got right off, I think you need to re-read it ALL slowly and thoroughly :o)" (Reply #59)  You don't think that condescending, using yourself as the paragon of understanding and giving remedial advise to one who saw it differently?


"You can't speak clearly enough for someone determined not to hear you." (Reply #75)  You actually placed this right after a direct quote from me.

I would advise you to re-read reply 73 by Lazarus short (if you read it at all) .   I got what he said right away, but the fact that you continued to keep this going after he posted his reply shows me you didn't.  In order for you to have the right understanding, you might want to re-read it slowly and thoroughly:  I know how you hate it when people don't do that.

VB,

I presume you understand the concept of Preterism Theology alias Replacement Theology. Eagleway is hardcore Replacement Theology, that is that the Christian Church has become the inheritor of the promises God has given to Israel. He makes no wall of separation between Body of Christ Saints & Israelite Saints. Until such a time as the Christian church knuckles under & recognizes this distinction, it will continue to twist & mangle plain & clearly written words of Holy Writ to suit  unfounded conclusions, the conclusions of Replacement Theology.

Christ's ministry was to Israelite saints, he clearly stated his ministry was to the House of Israel, not Gentiles, he spoke nothing of the Body of Christ. It is the Apostle Paul who introduced the Body of Christ to the world, thus began a whole new era of salvation to all, a revelation heretofore unheard of from the time of Moses.

Body of Christ saints have different promises than Israelite saints. Body of Christ saints must undergo change of their mortal bodies to immortal bodies to inherit their promises which exist beyond the environs of planet earth. Israelite saints are returned to their mortal bodies when they are resurrected, the prophetic text in Ezekiel 37 plainly attests to this. This of course is in sharp variance to the statements made by the apostle Paul that those who go up with Christ in the resurrection of the Body of Christ will be "changed", 1 Cor 15:51-54, a heretofore unknown secret has been revealed by Paul of a resurrection that involves "changed" bodies, this  is in sharp variance to what Ezekiel speaks of as a resurrection back to the same old flesh & blood for Israelite saints. Body of Christ saints have different promises than Israelite saints, I don't want to come back as flesh & blood & undergo this fleshly life stuff all over again.

Actually Paul I am not hadcore replacement theology. Youe seem to be busy about reactionary response and categorizing people. Unfruitful as those categorizations are in the first place, you would seem to have all of the body of Christ broken into two camps. I don't recognize those parameters as accurate ar all. The idea of coming back in a fleshly body, for instance, is something I know no one who believes that. The ressurection is immortal and spiritual; and the glory of the resurrected body is without sin, infirmity of death- as Jesus described it, "like the angels in heaven".

[eaglesway]

I want to make it clear here that these are simply discussions. This is a blog that has a preset focus(by its owner) towards the salvation of all. Whatever someones theological baseline- we are not here to "debate" such positions- but we can discuss them as long as they do not engender strife and unecessary conflict.

Now, if I have failed in some measure to be as conciliatory in my repsonse as I ought to, I offer apologies to whoever has taken offence.

That does not change the fact tho, that we are not here to judge one another over periferral theoligcal issues or to establish a "preterist primary" bent or a "literalist historical" bent. Anyone from any background can participate in the celebration of the UR perspective. That is what we are here for.

[sheila]

...actually...when your resurrected the earth gives you back as it received you[by this i mean form/recognizable]

  this is so the living will know that the dead are resurrected..after that is testified you make take on any form you like

  gardner,stranger,angel..etc.[like God appeared as man when come down to inspect sodom and gomorrah...]

      the thing is..these new creatures in heaven can start lighting up like a lightbulb.  this light starts up

  in the forehead[yep there really is a mark on the forehead] and totally obliterates former facial features

  it is like a man walking around with a sun shining on His head.[p.s. Moses had to wear a veil for a while]

  big clue in..when it says God is light..that is not a misnomer

    I don't expect you all to take my word for it..but when you see for yourself...you'll know..and you will

[jabcat]

I'm going to post a few reminders and a request;

this is a DISCUSSION forum, not a general debate forum;

we're asked to discuss ideas, concepts, understandings, ALL within the scriptures, related somehow to UR, and in the spirit and attitude of "AS I UNDERSTAND".  A personal blog is for teaching/insisting one's own view is the only correct one, which is not what TM DF is.

Personal attacks, personal insults are not allowed - even unecessary personal inuendo (bating, flaming).  We're skirting the edges here, and the tone has become unecessarily unpleasant.

An apology/offer of conciliation has been made, and it"s asked that we return to discussion that's fruitful about the scriptures, or the thread will be locked.  Any further personal issues need to go to PM so as to end distraction from the purposes of the boards.  Thanks and blessings to all.  We are loved and accepted in the Beloved.  Writer included, as I often fail - let us strive to walk as such.   :HeartThrob:

Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer everyone.  Colossians 4:6

[Paul L]

I know it is only the words of Paul but:

Rom 10:10-13 -
"10 When we believe in our hearts, we are made right with God. We tell with our mouth how we were saved from the punishment of sin. 11 The Holy Writings say, "No one who puts his trust in Christ will ever be put to shame." 12 There is no difference between the Jews and the people who are not Jews. They are all the same to the Lord. And He is Lord over all of them. He gives of His greatness to all who call on Him for help. 13 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved from the punishment of sin."

Absolutely correct, during this "age of grace", as ushered in by the Apostle Paul. The dispensation  of the age of grace became the heart & core of the ascendancy of "dispensationalism" in the mid 1800's. They at least got the most important thing right while breaking ten centuries of shackles during the dark ages. During this "age of grace", all are welcomed into the Body of Christ. The "age of grace" will be shut down at the exact moment of the commencement of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, then it becomes all about Israel again & the gentiles are shut out.

[Paul L]

author=eaglesway link=topic=10878.msg146481#msg146481 date=1355854638]

author=VineBranch link=topic=10878.msg146443#msg146443 date=1355809364]

"Actually Vine Branch, I haven't been taking any shots at you. It seemed to me you misinterpreted Deds post, I was simply attempting to respond ideologically."   (Eaglesway, Reply #77, December 17, 2012, 09:11:19 AM)

Are you serious?  You left a paper trail.  Seriously dude, denial is a lie and not an option.  Allow me to refresh your memory.

"You are misundrstanding what ded said. All black and white, eh? There are many levels to the mysteries of the scriptiures, you have to read what people say and try to understand what they are saying.....not jump off the cuff with assumptions." (Reply #52)  First you interpret what I say and instead of calling it different, you call it wrong (I didn't understand it correctly), then you take my thought processes to task (accusing me of seeing things only in black and white).  Thirdly you accuse me of not trying to understand the post and then jumping of a cuff (I have no idea what that means).

"I think Ded said He knew it before intellectually (meaning, IN THE MIND OF GOD) and experienced it in time with Abraham- that is what I got right off, I think you need to re-read it ALL slowly and thoroughly :o)" (Reply #59)  You don't think that condescending, using yourself as the paragon of understanding and giving remedial advise to one who saw it differently?


"You can't speak clearly enough for someone determined not to hear you." (Reply #75)  You actually placed this right after a direct quote from me.

I would advise you to re-read reply 73 by Lazarus short (if you read it at all) .   I got what he said right away, but the fact that you continued to keep this going after he posted his reply shows me you didn't.  In order for you to have the right understanding, you might want to re-read it slowly and thoroughly:  I know how you hate it when people don't do that.

VB,

I presume you understand the concept of Preterism Theology alias Replacement Theology. Eagleway is hardcore Replacement Theology, that is that the Christian Church has become the inheritor of the promises God has given to Israel. He makes no wall of separation between Body of Christ Saints & Israelite Saints. Until such a time as the Christian church knuckles under & recognizes this distinction, it will continue to twist & mangle plain & clearly written words of Holy Writ to suit  unfounded conclusions, the conclusions of Replacement Theology.

Christ's ministry was to Israelite saints, he clearly stated his ministry was to the House of Israel, not Gentiles, he spoke nothing of the Body of Christ. It is the Apostle Paul who introduced the Body of Christ to the world, thus began a whole new era of salvation to all, a revelation heretofore unheard of from the time of Moses.

Body of Christ saints have different promises than Israelite saints. Body of Christ saints must undergo change of their mortal bodies to immortal bodies to inherit their promises which exist beyond the environs of planet earth. Israelite saints are returned to their mortal bodies when they are resurrected, the prophetic text in Ezekiel 37 plainly attests to this. This of course is in sharp variance to the statements made by the apostle Paul that those who go up with Christ in the resurrection of the Body of Christ will be "changed", 1 Cor 15:51-54, a heretofore unknown secret has been revealed by Paul of a resurrection that involves "changed" bodies, this  is in sharp variance to what Ezekiel speaks of as a resurrection back to the same old flesh & blood for Israelite saints. Body of Christ saints have different promises than Israelite saints, I don't want to come back as flesh & blood & undergo this fleshly life stuff all over again.

Actually Paul I am not hadcore replacement theology. Youe seem to be busy about reactionary response and categorizing people. Unfruitful as those categorizations are in the first place, you would seem to have all of the body of Christ broken into two camps.

Only 2 camps? More like about a 1002. There are Methodists, Baptists, Catholics, Jehovah's Witness, Messianic Jews, Assembly of God, Pentecostals, the unchurched, 7th Day Adventist, Southern Baptist.....how many more camps or denominations could we come up with, all with varying degrees of beliefs in Preterism vs. Dispensationalism & all have a representation within the Body of Christ.  I'm not picking on anyone here, only pointing that within these various groups are varying degrees of Replacement Theology.

I don't recognize those parameters as accurate ar all. The idea of coming back in a fleshly body, for instance, is something I know no one who believes that. The ressurection is immortal and spiritual;

So then what do we do about Ezekiel 37? It's a very real book with very real text..... and.....I know for a fact that a lot of Body of Christ believers do in fact believe Ezek 37 will be a very real event.

[Molly]

...actually...when your resurrected the earth gives you back as it received you[by this i mean form/recognizable]

  this is so the living will know that the dead are resurrected..after that is testified you make take on any form you like

  gardner,stranger,angel..etc.[like God appeared as man when come down to inspect sodom and gomorrah...]

      the thing is..these new creatures in heaven can start lighting up like a lightbulb.  this light starts up

  in the forehead[yep there really is a mark on the forehead] and totally obliterates former facial features

  it is like a man walking around with a sun shining on His head.[p.s. Moses had to wear a veil for a while]

  big clue in..when it says God is light..that is not a misnomer

    I don't expect you all to take my word for it..but when you see for yourself...you'll know..and you will

Tell us some more about this.  :banana:

[eaglesway]

Re:EZ. 37, which of the three events are you speaking of.  My point with you Paul is to say that you are making a lot of emphatic statements in an environment that is geared for discussion about a subject matter that is important to a wider range of doctrinal perspectives than yours alone. Whether or not Ezekiel 37 is a real event or not is beside the point. The point is that on this forum the rule is that we express our opinions about such truths without getting hostile or belittling other peoples opinions. Preterists, Dispensationalists, Literalists, Fundamentalists, Pentecostals, Catholics, Evangelicals all are able to come here- hopefully- and hear about the blessed hope and glorious gospel of Jesus Christ, and discuss it, without being "categorized" or condescended to if they do not agree with your positions on other aspects of theology.

It is for that reason that the moderators on this forum may differ as to some of these questions but DO agree that the discussions will be kept respectful and in a conversational tone, characterized by opinions, NOT a strident and authoratative one, because evryone has reasons for what they believe- and just insisting one's view is "the right one" is not sufficient and it is not profitable.

Most of the people I know on this forum are big enough to take care of themselves. I am not worried about you picking on anyone- the point is to remained focused on the reason for the forum, which is DISCUSSING UR, not dissing other's doctrinal perspectives or getting argumentative about non-UR related topics.

[Paul L]

Re:EZ. 37, which of the three events are you speaking of.  My point with you Paul is to say that you are making a lot of emphatic statements in an environment that is geared for discussion about a subject matter that is important to a wider range of doctrinal perspectives than yours alone. Whether or not Ezekiel 37 is a real event or not is beside the point. The point is that on this forum the rule is that we express our opinions about such truths without getting hostile or belittling other peoples opinions. Preterists, Dispensationalists, Literalists, Fundamentalists, Pentecostals, Catholics, Evangelicals all are able to come here- hopefully- and hear about the blessed hope and glorious gospel of Jesus Christ, and discuss it, without being "categorized" or condescended to if they do not agree with your positions on other aspects of theology.

It is for that reason that the moderators on this forum may differ as to some of these questions but DO agree that the discussions will be kept respectful and in a conversational tone, characterized by opinions, NOT a strident and authoratative one, because evryone has reasons for what they believe- and just insisting one's view is "the right one" is not sufficient and it is not profitable.

Most of the people I know on this forum are big enough to take care of themselves. I am not worried about you picking on anyone- the point is to remained focused on the reason for the forum, which is DISCUSSING UR, not dissing other's doctrinal perspectives or getting argumentative about non-UR related topics.

So what is your understanding of the resurrection of Ezek 37? 

[ded2daworld]

And all this time I always thought there were only 2 camps. Those that get to know God as Lord before they die and those that don't get to know him as Lord untillafter they die.

[Paul L]

And all this time I always thought there were only 2 camps. Those that get to know God as Lord before they die and those that don't get to know him as Lord untillafter they die.

Depends on who you talk to. Talk only to two camps, then two camps. Talk to 100, then 100 camps.........

[sheila]

all I can say Molly..is it was one of the coolest things I ever saw. I can't wait to go myself................I asked why

  He allowed me to see this...and His reply was that a keeper of figs should be the first to eat of it's fruit..

      the resurrected man I was allowed to see and talk with was still learning to control it..when he

   saw me and walked over and was smiling..that was when the light started up[May the Lord God cause

  His face to shine upon thee' will never hold the same meaning for me!! it really shines!!]  He quickly

  'toned' it down..to where I wouldn't be distracted..and could converse face to face.

   Father must of known 40 years ago that He would do this..because of the dream/vision of going

up in a white tornado/whirlwind. [2 Kings2;11] with my friend. given me.[Ezekiel 1;4]] when I was 17.

    I can't wait to go home.......I get melancholy having to stay down here.....but I am useful to them

  down here.at present

[Molly]

Sheila, you mean someone who had died and was resurrected?

Or someone like Moses?

[sheila]

someone who died...I went up at the same time with them to the Holy city.  the wheat when gathered

by the reaping angels[cut off from ground/field/flesh] are gathered into the storehouse of Heaven.

   the angels bring them in as wave sheaves offering unto the House of the Lord. [ there were about 25-30

  coming in when I was up there[for about 10 secounds]

  everyone has their appointed work in the body up there.  some reap..some instruct..it's a very busy place

as soon as someone 'dies' down here..they are gathered into the Holy city..the gates never shut.

  they call it morning and evening sacrifices[of praise] sonset..sonrise[when we set on earth we rise in heaven]

that Jesus  through His gift to mankind offers...to Father...

   Jesus calls their name..they rise[reaped] and the clay shell is left behind on earth for us to bury..etc

    THERE IS NO DEATH  in REALITY

   I mean I always believed those scriptures about the spirit returning unto God..but I never KNEW IT.

   I always believed that we had a celestial body..but didn't Know it.

     

[Lazarus Short]

And all this time I always thought there were only 2 camps. Those that get to know God as Lord before they die and those that don't get to know him as Lord untillafter they die.

There are two groups of people in the world:  those who divide humanity into two groups, and those who don't.

[ded2daworld]

But there are three groups of people, those that understand math and those that don't. :laughing7:
I'm glad everything isn't so intense here all the time. :gimmefive: