Sons of Jacob

[WhiteWings]

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4015/s2bt.jpg)

Any significance Jacob has sons with 4 different women?

[lomarah]

That's a really good question and I also wonder if there is significance to Rachel having 2 sons?

Joseph = God will increase
Benjamin = Son of my right hand

[Molly]

Rachel was the beloved, beautiful wife.

Leah was dim of eye and homely, but he was forced to marry her first because she was older.


The Law and Grace.

[Molly]

That's a really good question and I also wonder if there is significance to Rachel having 2 sons?

Joseph = God will increase
Benjamin = Son of my right hand

Joseph is the firstborn son of the beloved wife=Jesus.
Benjamin gets the golden cup of Joseph, son of the right hand=us.

[WhiteWings]

Jesus a Son of the right hand was annoited by Benjaminite Mary Magdalena.

[Molly]

Yes Jesus stands at the right hand of God.

He is also the 'younger brother'  [the second Adam].

[reFORMer]

Joseph (a type of Christ) was the first to inherit the kingdom.  The last to enter (the feet are born last) is Benjamin, son of the right hand.  Once he entered he never came back.  His table had five times the provision of the other brothers.  The five-fold ministry produces the likeness of a perfect, mature man, the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

The difference between a bastard and a son, a legal heir in the image and likeness, is not with the Father.  They both have the same father.  It is in the mother.  Are we born of Babylon or Zion, the Jerusalem above or the one that now is below and is in bondage with her children?

I remember discovering one of the bearers of the twelve tribes name "Bilhah" meant, "bearing hire."  Where I got that I don't know.  In blueletterbible it reveals Bilhah is the two Hebrew letters for bath and first mention concerns Adam, "And he begat sons and daughters." (Genesis 5⁴)  "Daughters" here is the same as Bilhah.  That web site shows many ways the word is translated.  Gesenius's Lexicon there is one of the best helps I know; but, I don't know how to get a copy for tentmaker.

I studied certain of these types of things around the mid 80's.  Like the meaning of the Hebrew names of Daniel and the other three princes that were thrown into the firey furnace with him compared to the names given them in Babylon.  This illustrates something of how the false church recognizes those identities born of God.

[WhiteWings]

Benjamin was the first and last son of Israel. By that I mean after God changed Jacob's name into Israel.
That made Benjamin the first son/tribe of Israel. The other eleven were/are tribes of Jacob.
So the last son was the first son of Israel.
Last shall be first????
Joseph the full elder brother of Benjamin was the last "tribe of Jacob" and sold in slavery.
Jospeh was assumed to be dead. When the other 11 vistited Egypt Benjamin got 5x more food (Gen 43:34), 5x more clothes  and 300 pieces of silvel (Gen 45:21-22)

I don't see any relavance in 5x and 300.

[WhiteWings]

Benjamite king Saul was replaced by king David of the Judah tribe.
Judah was the last, fourth, son of Jacob before he slept with his slavewomen. I don't know if that's significant.

Two tribes, Ephraim and Manasseh, are not mentioned in my first post but were formed later. -> Joseph''s tribe split up.
After Solomon died Jeroboam (Ephraim) 'took' 10 tribes and they were named house of Israel.
The remaining two, Judah and Benjamin, are called House of Judah.

[WhiteWings]

Benjaminite Saul was one of the biggest enemies of Jesus' (Judah) teachings.
After being renamed to Paul he became one of the strongest promoteers of  Jesus teachings.
12 tribes are given land. The Levites didn't recieve land but priesthood.
That's a total of 12+1=13 tribes.

[WhiteWings]

The tribe of Joseph (eventually) split up into Manasseh and Ephraim?
Why?
What significance does it have?

[WhiteWings]

All those Jewish adoption laws are confusing but at death Jesus was (also) a Benjamite I think.
He was adopted into his mother's familiy/bloodline after His earthly father died.
So again the Benjamintes seem to place a important role in history.

All that said I still don't have  clue what this all means....

[WhiteWings]

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/12_Tribes_of_Israel_Map.svg/500px-12_Tribes_of_Israel_Map.svg.png)
Larger picture.

Notice that Jerusalem is in Benjamin's territory.

[WhiteWings]

I've updated the chart in post #1 to reflect nothern and southern tribes plus the split of Joseph's tribe.

Manasseh and Ephraim are not on the high priest's breast plate.

[reFORMer]

Joseph, meaning Increaser, shows the result of increase in his offspring; Ephraim, meaning Fruits, or doubly Fruitful, and Manasseh, meaning Forgetfulness.  In the place of Increase we Forget all the trouble and suffering we went through to come into such Fruitfulness in our lives.

Jacob and Rachel were so very much in love it was a great disappointment that they weren't having any children.  It was "the virgin shall conceive" thing again.  When they finally did have Joseph, [when the Messiah finally did arrive,] every time they called his name as he was growing up they were speaking a prophecy that another son was yet on the way (as Bill Britton pointed out.)  Benjamin would be born of the same mother [the whole body of Christ must yet enter in to reign, not the head only, but the rest of the body in the latter days.]

[WhiteWings]

Only the house of Judah existed at Jesus time.

Benjamin was:

- 12th son of Jacob
- 2nd son of Israel (former Jacob)
- Last son of Jacob/Israel.
- 2nd son of a 2nd wife.
- 2nd son of a 4th wife when counting the slave girls.



Jesus is from Judah. The tribe born from Jacob. The old man.
Benjamin is born from Israel. The new man.
Those two tribes merge into the Southern tribe/House of Judah.
That's like merging the old with the new.
???



Usually people just mention Leah and Rachel, but 4 tribes were born from slave girls.
I'm sure they aren't just there to spice up the story a bit.
If it was of no importance the Bible would just as listed 12 sons, like in other chapters/books that gives 'endless' lists of names without further explanations and/or comments.

I think there is a salvation pattern in those 12 manners or birth. But what.....?

[lomarah]

Not sure about the significance of the slave women vs. wives but I know that the names of the 12 sons are very significant.

Sons of Jacob

Meaning of Name------------------------------Mother---------------------Birth Verse

01-Reuben -See, a son                             Leah                       So Leah conceived and bore a son, and she called his name Reuben; for she said, "The LORD has surely seen my affliction. Now therefore, my husband will love me." Gen 29.32

02-Simeon-Hearing                                     Leah                       Then she conceived again and bore a son, and said, "Because the LORD has heard that I am unloved, He has therefore given me this son also." And she called his name Simeon. Gen 29.33

03-Levi-Joined; attached                             Leah                       She conceived again and bore a son, and said, "Now this time my husband will become attached to me, because I have borne him three sons." Therefore his name was called Levi. Gen 29.34

04-Judah-Yah be praised                             Leah                       And she conceived again and bore a son, and said, "Now I will praise Yahweh." Therefore she called his name Judah. Then she stopped bearing. Gen 29.35

05-Dan-Judge                                     Bilhah (Rachel's servant)   Then Rachel said, "God has judged my case; and He has also heard my voice and given me a son." Therefore she called his name Dan. Gen 30.6

06-Naphtali-My wrestling                            Bilhah                   Rachel said, "With great wrestlings I have wrestled with my sister, and indeed I have prevailed." So she called him Naphtali. Gen 30.6

07-Gad-Troop; good fortune            Zilpah (Leah's servant)   Then Leah said, "A troop comes!" So she called his name Gad. Gen 30.11

08-Asher-Happy                                   Zilpah              Then Leah said, "I am happy, for the daughters will call me blessed." So she called his name Asher. Gen 30.13

09-Issachar-Man of hire                         Leah                  Leah said, "God has given me my hire [wages] because I have given my maid to my husband." So she called his name Issachar. Gen 30.18

10-Zebulun-Dwelling                            Leah               Leah said, "...now my husband will dwell with me, because I have borne him six sons." So she called his name Zebulun. Gen 30.20b

11-Joseph-Increaser                           Rachel              So she called his name Joseph, and said, "The LORD shall add to me another son." Gen 30.24

12-Benjamin-Son of the right hand         Rachel      As her soul was departing (for she died), she called his name Ben-Oni [son of my sorrow]; but his father called him Ben-Jamin. Gen 35.18

(Taken from here: http://www.biblestudy101.org/Lists/12tribes.html)

This setup sucks but this is the extent of my computer skills. :)

[lomarah]

(I know you have the meanings in the first post WW but I think the verses are really significant too.)

[lomarah]

What I am wondering is if the first ten represent those who have the initial salvation experience (think the "church") but do not go on to attain perfection in this life. And the last two represent those who, in Card's words, press in and Christ "increases" in them until they attain that perfection and become a "son of the right hand".

Now I do know that the first ten DO represent those in the "church" (talked about it with Card some, like she said, think about it, ten is the number of the law) and that Joseph is a type for us who have been treated horribly by our brothers (most of us are heretics, right? Been thrown in a pit lately? I've basically been deemed as worthy as Satan.). But the best part of the story is, we get lifted up and then are able to go back and "feed" them and aid in their salvation! Very cool stuff!

[WhiteWings]

What I am wondering is if the first ten represent those who have the initial salvation experience (think the "church") but do not go on to attain perfection in this life

The tribe of Judah (Jesus) is 4th of those 10

[lomarah]

What I am wondering is if the first ten represent those who have the initial salvation experience (think the "church") but do not go on to attain perfection in this life

The tribe of Judah (Jesus) is 4th of those 10

I know but the first ten still represent the church. It's true. I asked Card. ;P

[WhiteWings]

What exactly is the pattern then?

but do not go on to attain perfection in this life.

Jesus was of one of those tribes but He attained perfection.

[lomarah]

What exactly is the pattern then?

but do not go on to attain perfection in this life.

Jesus was of one of those tribes but He attained perfection.

No don't think of it that way. That's not saying only those from the tribe of Benjamin will reach perfection. That's just saying as a TYPE, that's what it represents. Types represent many different things all at once usually, this is just one type of the type. Get what I mean? :D

[WhiteWings]

I'm not talking about 'only'.
If the first 10 fail to reach perfection (churches fail), I would say Jesus would be the 11th tribe that does reach perfection. But that isn't the case.

If the 10 first tribes are churches:
- Based on what?
- Which churches?
- And above all: What's the pattern?

[lomarah]

I'm not sure what you mean by what's the pattern. But when I say the "church" I basically mean those who have the initial "I believe in Jesus, thank You for dying for me" experience but then do nothing else, don't press in, don't bother with sanctification or perfection. So I'm not talking about specific denominations or anything like that, just those who are already believers but are not pressing in to attain perfection. Jesus isn't a tribe. He descends from the tribe of Judah but that doesn't make Him the tribe of Judah. He is the Lion from the tribe of Judah. But I don't know if that has any meaning in this type. Card would know better.