Harvests of God

[WhiteWings]

 
<blockquote> </blockquote> the 10th century BCE (about the time that Solomon built the first temple in Jerusalem) archeologists found evidence of a fall-to-fall calendar being used by Israel.  They found a stone tablet at a place called Tel Gezer which is called the Gezer tablet.  This tablet contains a listing of certain activities to be performed during certain months, starting with the month of September.  It basically follows the agricultural cycle in Israel.  Here is what the tablet says, with our current era months supplied in brackets after each statement:
"His two months are (olive) harvest:             [Sept/Nov.]
his two months are grain planting:                 [Nov./Jan.]
his two months are late planting:                  [Jan./March]
his month is hoeing up of flax:                      [March/April]
his month is barley harvest:                         [April/May]
his month is (wheat) harvest and festivity:    [May/June]
his two months are vine-tending:                 [June/Aug.]
his month is summer-fruit:                          [Aug./Sept.]"

(http://webzoom.freewebs.com/historicconnections/Gezer%20ours%202.jpg)

(http://historicconnections.webs.com/biblicalarchaeology.htm)

[Cardinal]

 :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

I am not teaching this, but I think it is an interesting possibility, that the saints who were resurrected in Mt 27

and lo, the vail of the sanctuary was rent in two from top unto bottom, and the earth did quake, and the rocks were rent, and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who have fallen asleep, arose, and having come forth out of the tombs after his rising, they went into the holy city, and appeared to many.
(Mat 27:51-53)YLT

were a first fruits wave offering. If so it would read, each in His own order, 1 Christ 2) the firstfruits 3) those who are His at His coming(first resurrection overcomers)- then comes the end(second resurrection all the dead that remain as described in Revelation 20:5&12) I think the idea that Jesus is our high priest within the veil and that He went to the throne room with with a group of friends(firstfruits) who are participating in the ministry of intercession and sitting in on the councils and counsels of heaven IS A GAS! (HOLY SMOKES!)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I like it!  :thumbsup:

[thinktank]

Sounds good.

[WhiteWings]

A threshing board is an obsolete farm implement used to separate cereals from their straw; that is, to thresh. It is a thick board, made with a variety of slats, with a shape between rectangular and trapezoidal, with the frontal part somewhat narrower and curved upward (like a sled or sledge) and whose bottom is covered with lithic flakes or razor-like metal blades.

One form, once common in the Mediterranean Sea area, was "about three to four feet wide and six feet deep (these dimensions often vary, however), consisting of two or three wooden planks assembled to one another, of more than four inches wide, in which several hard and cutting flints crammed into the bottom part pull along over the grains. In the rear part there is a large ring nailed, that is used to tie the rope that pulls it and to which two horses are usually harnessed; and a person, sitting on the threshing board, drives it in circles over the cereal that is spread on the threshing floor. Should the person need more weight, he need only put some big stones over it."[1]

The dimensions of threshing boards varied. In Spain, they could be up to approximately two metres in length and a metre and a half wide. There were also smaller threshing boards, as little about a metre-and-a-half long and a metre wide.[2] The thickness of the slats of the threshing board is some five or six centimeters. Nonetheless, since threshing boards are nowadays custom made, made to order or made smaller as an adornment or souvenir, they may range from miniatures up to the sizes previously described.[3]

The threshing board has been traditionally pulled by mules or by oxen over the grains spread on the threshing floor. As it was moved in circles over the harvest that was spread, the stone chips or blades cut the straw and the ear of wheat (which remained between the threshing board and the pebbles on the ground), thus separating the seed without damaging it. The threshed grain was then gathered and set to be cleaned by some means of winnowing.



(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Threshing-sledge.png/800px-Threshing-sledge.png)Tribulation of the grain harvest.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Barriendo_el-_muelo_cereal.jpg/320px-Barriendo_el-_muelo_cereal.jpg)
Sweeping the threshing floor.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Cilindro-sello_trillo.png/800px-Cilindro-sello_trillo.png)
Treshing sledge third millenium BC

[Deena]

Who exactly are the overcomers? If there is no one good and we know nothing apart from what God reveals (we have no control), then it is difficult to understand who or what they overcome that qualifies them as overcomers. Am I one? Who can know?

[Molly]

Who exactly are the overcomers? If there is no one good and we know nothing apart from what God reveals (we have no control), then it is difficult to understand who or what they overcome that qualifies them as overcomers. Am I one? Who can know?

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.



1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?



1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[WhiteWings]

Who exactly are the overcomers? If there is no one good and we know nothing apart from what God reveals (we have no control), then it is difficult to understand who or what they overcome that qualifies them as overcomers. Am I one? Who can know?

That's a very good question Deena. Personally I have no clue. The verses Molly posted are correct but aren't answering your question. It's a paradox for me.
s a

[Molly]

I thought it did answer the question.

It defines who the overcomers are.

It tells us what we are overcoming--the kosmos [world system] created by Satan.

[WhiteWings]

Imo only shallow reading defines what overcomers are.
Overcomers overvome the world. Sin and bad habbits.
That's a good thing to do.
But elsewhere we read we can't do anything good of ourselfs. We can't boast about anything good we do/did.
So if that overcomer is fully controlled by the HS the ovecomer was rather passive. What did the overcomer overcame if all the work was done by the HS?
That's the paradox for me.

[Molly]

It's not sin and bad habits we are overcoming.

It is the world system created by Satan, [where the sin and bad habits come from in the first place.]

We are told to do certain things that are active, put on the full armor of God, renew our minds daily, overcome evil with good, love one another, forgive, pray without ceasing--these things involve a certain amount of effort on our parts.

So it is not just a passive stance.   In fact, even just standing itself is not passive but often takes great courage.

All of which we can do because the one who is in us is greater than the one who is in the world.

[WhiteWings]

It's not sin and bad habits we are overcoming.

It is the world system created by Satan, [where the sin and bad habits come from in the first place.]

Even that answer is a parodox to me.
We should overcome the world but the things that defines the world (sin, habits) should not be overcome?

We are told to do certain things that are active, put on the full armor of God, renew our minds daily, overcome evil with good, love one another, forgive, pray without ceasing--these things involve a certain amount of effort on our parts.

Who does that? The person called Molly? Or the HS working inside Molly?

[Deena]

I am glad that some can understand my confusion. Jesus said that apart from Him we can do nothing. Perhaps He is the only overcomer and I am one siply because i am hidden in Him.  I want to be counted among the overcomers. My heart feels like it will break if I dont see my Savior soon, but frankly my life does not reflect that i have overcome much of anything. Particular sins plague me like a trap door. Do I believe Jesus is the Savior of the world? YES and amen. But if anything is required of me beyond faith, i think im screwed.

[jabcat]

Deena, sometimes I think we need to be careful with some of our overcomer talk.  Sometimes we make it sound like it's about our own effort, even our own goodness, etc.  While I am one that certainly does believe in obedience to the Lord, I am finding that can only be done by looking to Him - both for the strength to do it, but also realizing it's just HIS strength.  I'm one that needs to just surrender to Him, turn things over to Him - I still fail/sin/miss the mark - I agree with Him I've done so, and He reminds me His grace is sufficient.  And by that I think He's growing me (maturing) and that part of that process is realizing that it's about HIM, His sufficiency, His strength.  I only have it if He gives it to me, works His works through me.

That said, I certainly believe we're required to make decisions about it;  do I start my day with prayer and reading the written Word, or do I start with the newspaper.  Do I look to Him and have my mind on Him as I go about my daily activities, or do I totally spend my day consumed with things and thoughts of the world - distracted by and focused so much on those things [which I often do] that I can't hear Him if He whispers something to me [in my spirit], nudges me about something, etc.  Still, again, I'm one that can't focus on my own works to get there, because I get frustrated and it just doesn't work.  I have to remember - and often reminded by my failures - it's about Him.

Some scrips that I think go along with this;  when He saves us, He seals us with the Holy Spirit of promise;  He who has begun a good work in you will complete it;  looking to Jesus, the author (beginner) and finisher (completer) of our faith;  nothing can separate us from the love of God;  ..washed their robes white in the blood of the Lamb;  He will keep that which I've committed unto Him against that day...

Blessings...look to Him, pray for each other, know that He is able.

[lomarah]

Awesome post jab and amen!
I just wrote this in another thread and it's quite relevant here as well:

We have to die willingly so that He can live and overcome in us. As we press in to know Him and His will and submit to that rather than our own selfish wills, He cleanses us and frees us from our sinful selves. Dying isn't easy but it's very freeing and the more "you" die and He lives in you, the more you realize how much in bondage you really were, and the more you can't wait to keep dying til the old man in you is completely dead lol!! It really is a paradox - the more "we" die, the more ourselves we become. 

Salvation IS a free gift, but what is salvation? Salvation is being set free, right? Set free from what? Sin and death! This is attainable NOW as we seek the Lord and follow His will and submit to it and He cleanses us from sin and spiritual death.

His heart IS that of a tender Father. Think of a loving Father who hates to see His children hurting. Sin hurts us. But so many of us are still so much in the babe phase of our spiritual walk that we can't even see that. When my children have to get needles or other painful medical procedures done I dread it and often get teary eyed, yet if I were to deny them of those things they would be much worse off and in much more pain than if they didn't. Same sort of deal with cleansing us from sin. He hates to see us suffer and only does what is necessary. Any pain or curse that we go through in life or afterwards are actually BLESSINGS, intended for our healing and for our good. I know, it's almost impossible to believe sometimes... but when it's all over and done with we will see. He really is good. And He really is love.

[jabcat]

Thanks lo.  Yes,  "He hates to see us suffer and only does what is necessary. Any pain or curse that we go through in life or afterwards are actually BLESSINGS, intended for our healing and for our good. I know, it's almost impossible to believe sometimes... but when it's all over and done with we will see. He really is good. And He really is love", and amen.  My [affected by the world and my own weaknesses] mind usually doesn't see it.  But He really is nothing but good, and His ways are perfect.  Amen.

[lomarah]

 :cloud9:

And in basically every circumstance so far that I have had to walk through I can now earnestly thank Him for. For example just yesterday I was thanking Him for the rejection of men because even though it is excruciatingly painful to go through, I understand now that He was separating me unto Himself. If I am comfortable in good worldly friendships I am not likely to spend my time with Him. (Sad but true.) So He made me a heretic. :) So I am weird to the secular for being a Christian and a heretic to the Christians. To be rejected by the Christians was especially painful. In all honesty my "secular" friends were much more gracious in their rejection lol. It was more a drifting away because we had nothing in common. The Christians flat out cursed me basically lol. But God has granted me forgiveness for them which is another blessing that came out of the rejection. He is setting me free.  :HeartThrob:

[Deena]

Lomara, what you wrote reminds me of something from CS Lewis--sometimes an asprin is enough, but sometimes we need to go to the dentist (yikes!). I know my hope is inHim and He will do the right thing. I think my hangup is that I want and beg to be free of a sin/bad habit, but I seem to have no power and for some reason no matter how much i pray, there it is. Sometimes i think its like praying for healing--sometimes God does. Sometimes not. We are all broken people in bondage to futility, but some seem to be able to live above it more than others. Is this by God's gift, or by "works"? This feels like a tug of war in my mind--if all is done by God, then why doesnt He help me? If i must do something then it seems its all back to works, which i have no power to do. I feel like Paul when in Romans 7 he asked who will set me free from this bondage. I know Romans 8 says it has been done through Christ, but what if practical experience contradicts this. Ok, now you know what kind of crazy lives in my head. :help:

[lomarah]

Deena that is anything but crazy. Well at least in the sense that we all go through that (or at least many of us). Someone on here once said that until we grow up into the full stature of Christ and attain the mind of Christ, we are essentially out of our minds. :) I never forgot that haha.

I for one am still "out of my mind" (and I prove it to myself every day by the stupid things I do) but through the truth God is leading me out of the darkness. The truth sets us free, right? The truth is, you are right we DON'T have the power in our flesh to have victory over sin. But Jesus does. He told us that if we remain in Him, we will bear much fruit and that apart from Him we can do nothing. I used to read that and think, "well crap". Why did I think "well crap"? Because I didn't believe that He loved me and WANTED me. Until I realized that He actually DOES, I couldn't remain in Him. Why? Because He said, "Abide in my LOVE." He also said that if we love Him we will obey Him. This wasn't a threat but a fact. When we truly do love Him (by knowing Him and abiding in His love) that is when we will be able to obey Him.

You are definitely on the right track, and He WILL answer those prayers Deena! Keep seeking and pressing in, and you can also pray for a revelation of His love which really helped me overcome my unbelief.

Huge blessings to you. <3

[Deena]

Thank you for encouraging me. You are right--I will trust Him to reveal His love and truth to be free.

[Molly]

David said moreover, The LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine.

And Saul said unto David, Go, and the LORD be with thee.

--1 Sam 17:37

[eaglesway]

Jabcatsaid, ".....sometimes we need to be careful about our overcomer talk" and I agree.

To overcome is to believe that He is our sufficiency, even when we fail. To remember that love covers a multitude of sins. To confess our faults to one another, maintaining a contrite heart. Thank God that any overcoming we do is the manifestation of "by grace through faith".

Often, the greatest testimony is that despite our failures, our inconsistencies, our weaknesses..... we still declare, "I know Him in whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I hav committed to Him against that day".

What hav I committed unto Him? Surely nothing if not the forgiveness of my sins!  If in any thing I please Him I will give credit to His grace. If in anything I displease Him I will even more be thankful that grace is mine. By the time I hav learned to judge no one He will hav allowed me many failures and I will hav realized that He did not come to judge the world, but so that the world through Him might be saved.

Who shall deliver me from the body of this death! Thank God for Jesuswho died and gave Himself for me. There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.

[redhotmagma]

I agree, the thought of overcoming can become a point of pride as if "I've"done anything.  I am just brought back to its no longer I that live but Christ in me, when overcoming is taking place, and its no longer I that live but Christ in me, when I fail.  His grace is sufficient.  I can do nothing of myself for myself.

[lomarah]

I know I am probably beating a dead horse here but it is only because I really want people to understand that Christ CAN overcome in us now, here, before we die!! We CAN be set free from sin! There is absolutely no pride in it, on the contrary, it is a degrading, crushing, and humiliating experience where He exposes our sins, our flesh is crushed and ripped to shreads and all we can do is beg Him for mercy and the removal of those sins. It is partaking in the cross, spiritually. We die, He is raised. He gets all the glory because it is all HIM. We can do nothing to please God apart from having faith in Him.