aprrently the rapture will know be on july 24...

[Molly]

Who is the god of forces, also known as a strange god, honored by the AntiChrist in the book of Daniel [Dan 11]?


"strange" god

H5236
נכר
nêkâr
nay-kawr'
From H5234; foreign, or (concretely) a foreigner, or (abstractly) heathendom: - alien, strange (+ -er).

[dajomaco]

Some things are just plan funny.
The rapture site has a pleading with it's readers not to vote for
Obama but rather the readers should vote for Romney.

Further down in the site is a huge section that( we are living in the end times)
because of the advent of various cults and there anti Christ doctrines.
The most be railed Cult is Mormonism the most anti Christ and powerful
Cult the world has ever seen .Mormonism

yet the rapture site says vote for
Romney the proud leader and elder of the cult.
Do not vote for the self proclaimed Christian.

Oddly enough the Christian Research Institute.
Has thousands of tracts and videos on the evils of Mormonism.
They say it's better to vote for Romney than Obama.

Some people love the law even though it puts them to shame.
There is no shame in Love of Love no shame in Jesus All in All.

Every thing described in the above comments point to how vulnerable
we are as sheep, thank God we only need to call for our Shepard and he is there
before the Bah Bah leaves our lips.     

[jabcat]

Yeah, the poor guy

Ah yes, he's a great innocent little fella.  No harm at all intended.   :LH:

OTOH, are any of them [politicians]?   :faint:  Some are likely more powerful vessels of dishonor than others.  We've heard the saying, about choosing "the least of 2 evils"?

"My kingdom is not of this world". Jn. 18:36

[jabcat]

Connecting to the OP, so as to not just veer this into a "political" thread;  I personally don't believe Obama is "the anti-Christ".  John said in his day there were already many anti-Christs...Basically, in many things, I believe there's much more than what usually meets the eye (on the surface of things).    :2c:

[lomarah]

Good golly miss Molly!  :laughing7: And sir Jab!
I am not saying Obama is innocent... on the contrary, he is as guilty as the rest of us. I'm just saying he's no sub human force of evil... he's just a man, like the rest of us, dealing with the same sin issues as the rest of us. If any of us could run a country flawlessly, then maybe we could judge better. I certainly would NOT want his job!

And yes Moll, I do see the anti-Christ being in us each individually and also in a more corporate body... the modern day church system. (Uh oh, there's that heretic in me coming out again...  :laughing7:) In all seriousness, the Lord showed me a couple of months ago that the religious spirit in me had actually been persecuting Him. (The religious always seek to kill Him... think Pharisees, etc. They persecute Love; they prefer doctrine, letter, etc.) This was while I was in the church, which was why the religious spirit in me was so dominant. It was horrifying and humiliating when He showed me that. Anyhow, what I'm trying to say is, yes the anti-Christ spirit is quite present in each of us, and especially in the "church" as a whole. And being set free from that is sooooo freeing!!! (I'm in the process.  :smile:)

[jabcat]

You might like the edit of my post while you were posting.   :wink1:

[jabcat]

Again, I don't want to get too deeply into politics, unless it's very connected to the OP.

But, I personally basically believe the whole worldly system to be corrupted, and even controlled by "principalities and powers" behind the scenes.

Watch and pray.

[lomarah]

You might like the edit of my post while you were posting.   :wink1:

Hahaha Jab  :thumbsup:

[Molly]

Yes, there is an antichrist spirit which is like any other spirit out there.  It can affect people.

But Daniel the prophet and the book of Revelation point to one man at the end of time who will be indwelt by Satan, as Satan seeks to beat Jesus to the punch and establish his one world government before Jesus does.  He is the Antichrist.





25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
--Daniel 7

[redhotmagma]

666 is the number of mankind. Anthropos

[Molly]

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

--Luke 21:36

[anna274]

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

--Luke 21:36

Thanks Molly, I really needed to be reminded of Watch and Pray.  I was also reminded of Hab 2:1 and Hab 3:17-19 (A meditation on Hab watching and praying brought great peace to my mind and heart at a time I was deeply troubled with all the "churches" denominations--I so wanted to assemble ... as well as with my ongoing struggles with our government (local and national).... in a way:  watching keeps me from sticking my head in the sand and praying keeps me from standing on my soapbox. 

[Molly]

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

--Luke 21:36

Thanks Molly, I really needed to be reminded of Watch and Pray.  I was also reminded of Hab 2:1 and Hab 3:17-19 (A meditation on Hab watching and praying brought great peace to my mind and heart at a time I was deeply troubled with all the "churches" denominations--I so wanted to assemble ... as well as with my ongoing struggles with our government (local and national).... in a way:  watching keeps me from sticking my head in the sand and praying keeps me from standing on my soapbox.

I still don't get this, Anna.  What is wrong with your soapbox?  I would rather listen to you than many who are out there influencing the marketplace.  Why the vow of silence?


What I tell you now in the darkness, shout abroad when daybreak comes. What I whisper in your ear, shout from the housetops for all to hear!  Mat 10:27

[anna274]

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

--Luke 21:36

Thanks Molly, I really needed to be reminded of Watch and Pray.  I was also reminded of Hab 2:1 and Hab 3:17-19 (A meditation on Hab watching and praying brought great peace to my mind and heart at a time I was deeply troubled with all the "churches" denominations--I so wanted to assemble ... as well as with my ongoing struggles with our government (local and national).... in a way:  watching keeps me from sticking my head in the sand and praying keeps me from standing on my soapbox.

I still don't get this, Anna.  What is wrong with your soapbox?  I would rather listen to you than many who are out there influencing the marketplace.  Why the vow of silence?


What I tell you now in the darkness, shout abroad when daybreak comes. What I whisper in your ear, shout from the housetops for all to hear!  Mat 10:27

MY soapbox is very, very different from MY "housetop" (a place  for meditation and prayer).  No vow of silence... just being prayerfully cautious to not "shout" BEFORE the daybreak comes.

Shall we start a new thread Matt 10:27... it might provide a place where people can share what they've been told... or heard from that "still small voice"...

[Molly]

Feast of Trumpets in Scripture

[Num 29:1] And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.

[Lev 23:24] Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
[Lev 23:25] Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

[Pss 81:3] Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.  KJV

[Col 2:16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday [festival], or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
[Col 2:17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

[1Cor 15:46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

[Num 10:10] On the day of your gladness also, and at your appointed feasts, and at the beginnings of your months, you shall blow the trumpets over your burnt offerings and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; they shall serve you for remembrance/memorial before your God: I am the LORD your God."

[Num 10:2] Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps.
[Num 10:3] And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

[Neh 8:1] And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.
[Neh 8:2] And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
[Neh 8:3] And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.

[Ezra 3:5] And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.
[Ezra 3:6] From the first day of the seventh month began they to offer burnt offerings unto the LORD. But the foundation of the temple of the LORD was not yet laid.
[Ezra 3:7] They gave money also unto the masons, and to the carpenters; and meat, and drink, and oil, unto them of Zidon, and to them of Tyre, to bring cedar trees from Lebanon to the sea of Joppa, according to the grant that they had of Cyrus king of Persia.

Pss 104:19 He appointed the moon for seasons [seasons--Mo'edim--appointed times]: the sun knoweth his going down.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Door Opened in Heaven on Trumpets & at the Rapture;
is the rapture into that
Heavenly Mansion / Pavillion / Bridal Chamber / New Jersualem
Ezek 46:1 "Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days; but on the sabbath day it shall be opened and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

[Mat 25:10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

[John 10:7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
[John 10:9] I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

[Isa 26:2] Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.

[Pss 118:19] Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD:
[Pss 118:20] This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.

[Isa 26:19] Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
[Isa 26:20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
[Isa 26:21] For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

[Luke 13:24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

[Pss 27:4] One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.
[Pss 27:5] For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

[John 14:2.3] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[John 14:3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

[Rev 21:2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her
husband.
[Rev 21:3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven [great trumpet?] saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

[Rev 21:9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
[Rev 21:10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem,
descending out of heaven from God,



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wedding at a Feast of Trumpets
[Pss 81:3] Blow the trumpet at the new moon, at the full moon, on our feast day.
[Pss 81:4] For it is a statute for Israel, an ordinance of the God of Jacob.
[Pss 81:5] He made it a decree in Joseph, when he went out over the land of Egypt. I hear a voice I had not known:

[Gen 41:45] And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphenath-paneah; and he gave him in marriage Asenath, the daughter of Potiphera priest of On. So Joseph went out over the land of Egypt.
[Gen 41:46] Joseph was thirty years old when he entered the service of Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went through all the land of Egypt.
[Gen 41:47] During the seven plenteous years the earth brought forth abundantly,


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Concealment at the Feast of Trumpets
[Pss 81:3] Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.  KJV
[Pss 81:3] Blow the trumpet at the new moon, at the full moon, on our feast day.  RSV
[Pss 81:3] "Sound the shofar on the New Moon, in concealment of the day of our festival"
 

03677 kece' {keh'-seh} or keceh {keh'-seh}
                 apparently from 03680; TWOT - 1006; n m
                 AV - appointed 2; 2
                 1) full moon
03680 kacah {kaw-saw'}

                 a primitive root; TWOT - 1008; v
                 AV - cover 135, hide 6, conceal 4, covering 2, overwhelmed 2, clad 1,
                 closed 1, clothed 1; 152
                 1) to cover, conceal, hide
                 1a) (Qal) conceal, covered (participle)
                 1b) (Niphal) to be covered
                 1c) (Piel)
                 1c1) to cover, clothe
                 1c2) to cover, conceal
                 1c3) to cover (for protection)
                 1c4) to cover over, spread over
                 1c5) to cover, overwhelm
                 1d) (Pual)
                 1d1) to be covered
                 1d2) to be clothed
                 1e) (Hithpael) to cover oneself, clothe oneself

From the above verse and Concordance meaning of the word, one meaning of Trumpets is concealment.

The day is called "the hidden day" as an expression or Jewish Idiom.
The day is referred to as "that day or hour no man knows", because it happens at the first sight of the sliver of a new moon, which can happen on either the 29th or 30th day, and thus, uncertain. Also, this phrases is associated with a wedding in Matt 25:13
The "mystery" of the rapture happens on this day. 1 Cor 15:52
And those caught up in the rapture will be hidden away in that Heavenly Bridal Chamber, the many mansions of John 14:2,3.
[Zeph 2:3] Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger.
[Pss 27:5] For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
[Isa 26:20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
In addition, from the above, those in the rapture will be covered by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and also clothed in white robes, the righteousness of the saints.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two Main Rapture Verses
[1 Corinthians 15:51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[1 Corinthians 15:52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[1 Thessalonians 4:16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[1 Thessalonians 4:17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[1 Thessalonians 4:18] Therefore comfort one another with these words.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Born Again / Made incorruptable / Baptism
at the rapture on the Feast of Trumpets

The New Moon is "born again" at the Feast of Trumpets.

Believers are "born again" at baptism.

John 3
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

I understand this question "art thou a master of Israel and knowest not these things?" to mean that, Jesus believed a master of Israel should have known about being baptised by water and holy spirit and being born again into incorruption at the rapture to enter heaven.

[1 Corinthians 15:51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[1 Corinthians 15:52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[1 Corinthians 15:53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Certainly, at the rapture, the change to incorruptible is like being born again, made new.

[1Pet 1:23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

As the moon represents believers; both are "born again" at the Feast of Trumpets.

The moon reflects the light of the sun, as believers reflect the light of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Even the diameter of the moon ALSO reflects the diamater of the sun, when multiplied by 4. The diamater of the sun is 864,000 miles. The diameter of the moon is 2160 miles. Multiplied by 4, the diameter of the moon is 8640 miles. Containing the same 864 number. The 24 hours in a day, multiplied by 60 minutes and 60 seconds give us 8640 seconds in a day.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The number 4, in Hebrew, is dalet, and is the forth letter of the alphabet, and also means door.  Jesus came 2000 years ago, about at year 4000 since creation. The Lord Jesus Christ said he was the door.
[John 10:9] I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

We go through the open door (4, Jesus Christ) at the rapture, on the feast of trumpets, on the new moon.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Lord Jesus Christ, like the sun, is the light of the world, and we reflect his light, like the moon.
 

[Mal 4:2] But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

[John 8:12] Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

[Mat 5:16] Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The rapture in Rev. 12 is a rapture of a new born child, the Church.

[Rev 12:4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

[Rev 12:5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Jesus was not caught up to God as a child, and it seems rather pointless to rehash the resurrection with figurative language that does not accurately picture Jesus only.  Remember, the Church is also called the "body of Christ".  That this is not only describing Jesus is evident in the fact that his bride, the Church also rules with a rod of iron:  Christ rules, and we rule as his bride (also with a rod of iron), but the Lord Jesus Christ is the head.

[Rev 2:26] He who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, I will give him power over the nations,
[Rev 2:27] and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received power from my Father;

[Rev 5:10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The "man child" is spoken of in Isaiah as a "nation being born" before the labor pains of tribulation. This represents the rapture before the tribulation; being born, made new, incorruptable, at the rapture.

Isaiah 66:
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?
for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

The resurrection is also described as being reborn.

[Col 1:18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To summarize so far:
The Feast of Trumpets speaks of the moon being reborn.
Revelation 12 speaks of a newly born man-child being raptured.

Rev 12 has actually been playing out in the stars over Jerusalem exactly during the Feast of Trumpets for four years, from 1996, '97, '98, & '99.

The moon was "birthed" between the legs of the constellation virgo, showing that the man-child of revelation 12 is the new moon.

Thus, when the moon is reborn, at the new moon, it is a highly appropriate time for the rapture and resurrection. The Feast of Trumpets is the only Feast on a new moon.

More "birth" scriptures, having to do with the rapture &/or the tribulation "time of trouble":

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The tribulation is also known as the "time of Jacob's trouble"

Jeremiah 30:
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From John 3, recall, we see that Baptism is being born again, with water and Holy Spirit.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Baptism (& being born again) is also a symbol of death and resurrection, which occurs at the rapture.




Bibleprophesy.org

[lomarah]

Baptism (& being born again) is also a symbol of death and resurrection, which occurs at the rapture.

NOOOOOOO!!! It doesn't occur at any "rapture"!! It is to occur now, here! There is a great chapter on the Feast of Trumpets in George Warnock's Feast of Tabernacles book. I would encourage everyone to read it!

[Molly]

Baptism (& being born again) is also a symbol of death and resurrection, which occurs at the rapture.

NOOOOOOO!!! It doesn't occur at any "rapture"!! It is to occur now, here! There is a great chapter on the Feast of Trumpets in George Warnock's Feast of Tabernacles book. I would encourage everyone to read it!

Not sure what you mean.  Our bodies will be changed at the rapture, mortality swallowed up by immortality--at the last [7th] trump.

[Molly]

I like to think of it as we are like premature babies, born out of due time, an aion early, so we do not yet have our fully developed bodies.  We will not receive these until the end of the age, which is why we only see in a darkened mirror at this time.



And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

--Rom 8:23

[lomarah]

Being born again and partaking in the resurrection are to occur now! Douglas Duncan's book is good for this topic too. (Modern Day Prophet).

[Molly]

Being born again and partaking in the resurrection are to occur now! Douglas Duncan's book is good for this topic too. (Modern Day Prophet).

Yes, but we will not receive our immortal bodies until the end of the age, at the last trump.

[lomarah]

(Not sure about our physical bodies, I'm talking spiritual.)

[Molly]

(Not sure about our physical bodies, I'm talking spiritual.)

I'm talking fully physical and fully spiritual.  We just have a downpayment now, an earnest, which guarantees that we will be fully redeemed some day, at the last trumpet, when this corruptible puts on incorruption and we are given immortal bodies like the resurrected Christ.


In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
--1 Cor 15:52

[jabcat]

Some say we turn into immortal beings in this life, others say Christ returns and He changes the mortal into immortal (IMO, I Cor. 15 and I Thes. 4)

[Molly]

Some say we turn into immortal beings in this life, others say Christ returns and He changes the mortal into immortal (IMO, I Cor. 15 and I Thes. 4)

Why can't it be both.  I believe we are already immortal, having passed over from death to life, but that we won't be given our final bodies, that is, fully redeemed,  until the end of the age.

[Molly]

I personally agree, it's probably bits and pieces of several different views.

We know the body is in the grave--dig it up and see.

We are told that body will be resurrected.

But, we are also told, that a body is prepared for us in heaven, while we wait, so to speak.

So I don't understand the problem.



5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.

--2 Cor 5