aprrently the rapture will know be on july 24...

[Wakawakawaka]

there is this fellow whom claimed that Matthew 10 26 and John 16 13-15 can tell us when Jesus is going to return! Is he wrong here is his book http://www.themysteryunlocked.com/ebooks/the_mystery_unlocked.pdf  and please take a look on page 33 where he says the line about no one being able to predict the return of Jesus is mistranslated! he says the rapture is going to be on july 25

[Wakawakawaka]

can anyone refute what hes saying this rapture stuff is driving me crazy......

[lomarah]

Hey wakawakawaka. I wouldn't waste time worrying about "raptures". :)
God is Love. Focus on that. :)
Peace.

[Wakawakawaka]

yeah i know but what about the lines he is using to support himself, he says that the day is a mysterty waiting to be unlocked......

[shawn]

Of course I see this different than most, but I believe Christ already returned...in the hearts of men on the day of Pentecost.

[reFORMer]

I got to page 1 (which is in the Introduction) and find the author saying, "...the second coming of the Lord has TWO PARTS."  There is nothing said in the Bible about this.  The phrase often used for their first of two second comings is, "the coming for His saints," which also does not exist in Scripture.  The most common time between the two second comings is either 7 or 3 1/2 years.  This also is of course on The List of Popular UN-Biblical Phrases Mistakenly Attributed to the Bible.

That some one uses "rapture," which is not in the Bible and is an UN-Biblical category also, shows they have neither studied into this matter very deeply nor, as a consequence, arrived at advanced knowledge, even additional revelation.  We need to confine ourselves to the vocabulary God has chosen to make His revelation known.  Words like "rapture" or, "hell' are containers of several Biblical words or phrases, often not connected in the original, with traditional and other ideas stirred in.  The Greek word harpazo is part of what is in "rapture; but, for example, when in a discussion recently, I just defined harpazo alone, citing a handful of occurrences ("it means to seize for ones own possession,") the response was that I had some kind of special and original to me definition for this word.  They were rejecting the Biblical category, judging it by a rather new and certainly unBiblical category.

If someone doesn't know the next thing to happen on God's Prophetic calendar (The Barley Harvest) why would we believe he had some kind of rare and advanced knowledge.

He doesn't know what to expect.  How then can he know when it is?

[WhiteWings]

1]
Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts 2000 years ago. That imo means the next time He comes will be during fall feasts. My guess is Feast of Trumpets (Jewish new year) or Atonemnet day (10 days later). That would set the month at September.

2]
My thought is that He will return on a Sabbath or Jubilee year. Meaning no sooner than 2015 or 2016.

3]
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/SecondComing/Chap13.htm

[Wakawakawaka]

I got to page 1 (which is in the Introduction) and find the author saying, "...the second coming of the Lord has TWO PARTS."  There is nothing said in the Bible about this.  The phrase often used for their first of two second comings is, "the coming for His saints," which also does not exist in Scripture.  The most common time between the two second comings is either 7 or 3 1/2 years.  This also is of course on The List of Popular UN-Biblical Phrases Mistakenly Attributed to the Bible.

That some one uses "rapture," which is not in the Bible and is an UN-Biblical category also, shows they have neither studied into this matter very deeply nor, as a consequence, arrived at advanced knowledge, even additional revelation.  We need to confine ourselves to the vocabulary God has chosen to make His revelation known.  Words like "rapture" or, "hell' are containers of several Biblical words or phrases, often not connected in the original, with traditional and other ideas stirred in.  The Greek word harpazo is part of what is in "rapture; but, for example, when in a discussion recently, I just defined harpazo alone, citing a handful of occurrences ("it means to seize for ones own possession,") the response was that I had some kind of special and original to me definition for this word.  They were rejecting the Biblical category, judging it by a rather new and certainly unBiblical category.

If someone doesn't know the next thing to happen on God's Prophetic calendar (The Barley Harvest) why would we believe he had some kind of rare and advanced knowledge.

He doesn't know what to expect.  How then can he know when it is?

what about when he says its a mystery waiting to be unlocked... and that its a paradox with no one knowth the day and the hour and matt 10 26 were he says all things will be revealed... what does it really supposed to mean

[Wakawakawaka]

and there is also this website called fivedoves...there ike an entire ARMY of jack van impes and haorld camping on there!

[lomarah]

Waka I'm telling you, please stop reading all of that garbage and just focus on getting to know the Lord for yourself. Pray, ask for the truth, read the Bible, and when something comes up in there that you don't understand, go to HIM to reveal it to you. Otherwise you are just filling your mind with manmade theories that will only torment you.

[Molly]

No one knows the day or hour refers to the fall feasts which begin on the new moon.  There is a two day period where the priests go to the top of the Temple and watch constantly until the first sliver of moon appears, then the feasts begin.

I agree with ww that Jesus will return at the fall feasts, which are the only ones not yet fulfilled in us.  We have been given forgiveness of sins [Passover] and the Holy Spirit [Pentecost].  We now await the fulfillment of the fall feasts--trumpets, atonement, and tabernacles-- the receiving of our immortal bodies.

feasts are appointments, written in God's appointment book.  He will keep his appointments.

Although if he WERE to appear on July 24th, I certainly would not say, "You're early!" :winkgrin:

[WhiteWings]

I think it's kinda funny that "nobody knows the hour" is pinpointing the day quite accurately :-)

No one knows the day or hour refers to the fall feasts which begin on the new moon.

The quote is clearly related to Jewish new year. But I wonder that's the date or Attonement day on the tenth of that same month.

[Molly]

It's a good question, but clearly the 'rapture' verse cites the sounding of the trumpet, which would be the seventh trumpet, which would be the sounding trumpet of 1Cor 15.   So I would keep my eyes open on feast of trumpets.

It could be that the last three feasts are fulfilling the redemption of our bodies in a progressive way.



16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [harpazo] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

--1 Thess 4

[WhiteWings]

It's a good question, but clearly the 'rapture' verse cites the sounding of the trumpet, which would be the seventh trumpet, which would be the sounding trumpet of 1Cor 15.   So I would keep my eyes open on feast of trumpets.

Feat of trumpets is New year.

But read:

Lev 25:9 Then have the trumpet sounded everywhere on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your land

[WhiteWings]

(Lev 25:9) Then thou shall send abroad the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month. In the day of atonement ye shall send abroad the trumpet throughout all your land.

(Lev 25:10) And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all the inhabitants of it. It shall be a jubilee to you, and ye shall return every man to his possession, and ye shall return every man to his famil
(Lev 25:11) That fiftieth year shall be a jubilee to you. Ye shall not sow, neither reap that which grows of itself in it, nor gather in it of the undressed vines.


Jesus could be the new beginning. New year.
But setting all slaves free from bondage.... sounds even more Jesus like.

[redhotmagma]

my vote is for new year, the birthday of the sons, the birthday of all Israelites (according to WW so... :)  the unveiling is the birthing as the veil is like the hymen of the virgin bride being torn at birth.  tabernacles is word become flesh, and tabernacling amongst us.

maybe the 8th day is the presentation of the newborn sons at(as) the temple?

[WhiteWings]

Tabernacles is 15-21
22nd = 8th day
23rd = the day Jesus spoke in the the Synagoge of Capricum (sp?)


Another thing to consider:
(Lev 25:9) Then shall you cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall you make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.

Translated wrong in most Bibles. Trumpet should be shofar/rams horn.

(Lev 25:9) Then shall you cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall you make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.(Lev 25:9) Then shall you cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall you make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.

Trumpets and Shofars
Silver trumpets (trcAcx, cha-tzotz-rot) were originally used to signal camp movements
during the journey to the Promised Land (Num. 10:1-2). Later they were used by the
Levites during various Temple rituals, especially during the offering of animal sacrifices
(Num. 10:10). They were also sometimes used in times of warfare (Num. 10:9; 31:6; 2
Chr. 13:12-14).
These silver trumpets are to be distinguished from the ram's horn trumpet (rpAv, shofar)
that was explicitly commanded to be sounded during Yom Kippur (Lev. 25:9) and during
the Yovel (Jubilee Year). The common consensus among the sages was that the shofar,
not the silver trumpet, was likewise used to commemorate Yom Teruah. The shofar was a
reminder of the exchange of the divinely provided ram as ransom for Isaac's life (the
Akedah) and of the giving of the Torah to Israel at Sinai (Exod. 19:16).


Not entirely accurate but:
Shofar = salvation
Trumpet = war

Imo there is also a difference between singular an plural trumpet(s).

[lomarah]

That just got me VERY excited... oh for the sound of the shofar!!!

[Wakawakawaka]

Waka I'm telling you, please stop reading all of that garbage and just focus on getting to know the Lord for yourself. Pray, ask for the truth, read the Bible, and when something comes up in there that you don't understand, go to HIM to reveal it to you. Otherwise you are just filling your mind with manmade theories that will only torment you.

I understand its just that people like those on this website http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2012/leigh619.htm it just really saddens me on humanity could just believe this stuff maybe we could all try to eaml th authir and talk some sense into him...or is that just wishful thinking

[WhiteWings]

Another thing to consider.
Nisan is the start of the holy year. The month of Passover. Crucifixion month.
Passover, one of the main Jewish festivals didn't start the 1st of the month but the 15th.
Can't find the verse and am not 100% sure either. "Blessed is he who waits 14 days"
Joshua started preparing crossing the Jordan on the first. Did so on the 4th. Fist passover on the 15th.

I wonder is we should/may use that pattern in Tishri.

1 Nisan = 1 Tishri
15 Nisan = 15 Tishri
Passover = Atonement day

Of course those dates aren't the same. Neither are the festivals the same. It's just my way of showing a pattern (that possibly only exists in my mind)

Atonement is about forgiving sins. I think all agree the death of Jesus (Nisan) is also very closely connected to forgiving sins.
AFAIK Jewish new year isn't ordained by God. The Jew brought it with them from exile.
Atonement day (and Jublilee) are clearly instructed in Leviticus

Altough I'm not making firm statements here; atonement day certainly is high on my list. Highest I would say (with some reservations)

:dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

Waka I'm telling you, please stop reading all of that garbage and just focus on getting to know the Lord for yourself. Pray, ask for the truth, read the Bible, and when something comes up in there that you don't understand, go to HIM to reveal it to you. Otherwise you are just filling your mind with manmade theories that will only torment you.

I understand its just that people like those on this website http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2012/leigh619.htm it just really saddens me on humanity could just believe this stuff maybe we could all try to eaml th authir and talk some sense into him...or is that just wishful thinking

I think that's a lot of wishful thinking. Obviously people who devote a whole website and/or book on a certain topic won't be convinced by a single email.
But even if they are correct waka.... there is nothing you/we can do to stop God's plan. It's like worrying about getting old. You can't avoid it. But you can avoid having a bad life worrying about it.

[Wakawakawaka]

oh look at this http://www.godstimeline.net/rapture_late_summer_2012.html its actually suppsoed to be on the 9 of av which is the 28th of july :icon_joker:

[lomarah]

Waka I'm telling you, please stop reading all of that garbage and just focus on getting to know the Lord for yourself. Pray, ask for the truth, read the Bible, and when something comes up in there that you don't understand, go to HIM to reveal it to you. Otherwise you are just filling your mind with manmade theories that will only torment you.

I understand its just that people like those on this website http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2012/leigh619.htm it just really saddens me on humanity could just believe this stuff maybe we could all try to eaml th authir and talk some sense into him...or is that just wishful thinking

I think that's a lot of wishful thinking. Obviously people who devote a whole website and/or book on a certain topic won't be convinced by a single email.
But even if they are correct waka.... there is nothing you/we can do to stop God's plan. It's like worrying about getting old. You can't avoid it. But you can avoid having a bad life worrying about it.

LOL touchè!!

[dajomaco]

At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
The earth shook, the rocks split
52 )and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.
53 )They came out of the tombs after Jesus' resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

How many resurrections from the grave are there?

[WhiteWings]

(At least) two.
Another thing is : What type of resurrection?
Onto eternal life or like Lazarus who died again (I think)?