Holy Spirit in everyone?

[lomarah]

Romans 12:2
And do not be fashioned according to this age, but be transformed by the renewing (anakainosis) of the mind that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and well pleasing and perfect.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and the renewing (anakainosis) of the Holy Spirit.

Regeneration--we are spiritually reborn every day by the Holy Spirit.

We are made new, re-newed, every day by the Holy Spirit.

Anakainoo means to make fresh[implied through repetition] :

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
--Eph 4:23

The manna must be collected and eaten every day.

In this way, we are transformed.


49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
John 6:50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.

Thanks Moll, that answered some stuff for me for sure.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

And that was something that I really needed to hear right now.

[SkyOverCloudNed]

And God breathed His breath of life into that pile of molded clay and it became a living soul. The wording seemsquite emphatic, I can't argue with the fact that it takes clay and God's breath of life to create a living soul. Nowhere does it say otherwise and if it did then it would seem scripture would be contradicting itself making itself out to be a hypocritical lie.

[Molly]

And God breathed His breath of life into that pile of molded clay and it became a living soul. The wording seemsquite emphatic, I can't argue with the fact that it takes clay and God's breath of life to create a living soul. Nowhere does it say otherwise and if it did then it would seem scripture would be contradicting itself making itself out to be a hypocritical lie.

You are, of course, talking about Adam.  Yet, no where else do we see that description of God deliberately and specifically breathing into his creation, save one place in the New Testament.  Are we to assume that something that is not described for Eve or anyone else actually happened?


And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

--John 20:22

[WhiteWings]

And God breathed His breath of life into that pile of molded clay and it became a living soul. The wording seemsquite emphatic, I can't argue with the fact that it takes clay and God's breath of life to create a living soul. Nowhere does it say otherwise and if it did then it would seem scripture would be contradicting itself making itself out to be a hypocritical lie.

You are, of course, talking about Adam.  Yet, no where else do we see that description of God deliberately and specifically breathing into his creation, save one place in the New Testament.  Are we to assume that something that is not described for Eve or anyone else actually happened?

It's like the flowers in your garden. Did God create them today/this year? Or did He create the laws of nature back then; and the seeds of the first flower kept the proces running? Same for the breath which is mulitplied by the human reproduction system.
That brings us to anonther issue: Animals have breath too. The flood story cleary writes about animals with breath in their nostrils drowning. Is it a coincidence the creation itself uses the exact same words? (breath/nostril)

[Molly]

And God breathed His breath of life into that pile of molded clay and it became a living soul. The wording seemsquite emphatic, I can't argue with the fact that it takes clay and God's breath of life to create a living soul. Nowhere does it say otherwise and if it did then it would seem scripture would be contradicting itself making itself out to be a hypocritical lie.

You are, of course, talking about Adam.  Yet, no where else do we see that description of God deliberately and specifically breathing into his creation, save one place in the New Testament.  Are we to assume that something that is not described for Eve or anyone else actually happened?

It's like the flowers in your garden. Did God create them today/this year? Or did He create the laws of nature back then; and the seeds of the first flower kept the proces running? Same for the breath which is mulitplied by the human reproduction system.
That brings us to anonther issue: Animals have breath too. The flood story cleary writes about animals with breath in their nostrils drowning. Is it a coincidence the creation itself uses the exact same words? (breath/nostril)

I guess it depends whether you think the breath of God and the breath of life to be the same thing.  And, if they are, what was Jesus doing with his disciples?

[WhiteWings]

the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

I think the above verse shows a strong connection between that breath and becoming alive.
The breath came from God's lungs so doesn't that mean that breath was from God.

IF they are not the same who gave life? Satan? Darwin?

Generally speaking: Translators did a bad job in that area. Several Hebrew words are translated to breath. Imo before we can seriously discuss this we should have correct translations of those words.

[Molly]

Clearly the resurrected Christ was breathing upon already living [but spiritually dead] humans.  He tells them to receive the Holy Spirit.  This fulfills this scripture:

So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a quickening spirit.  1 Cor 15:45

And this:

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

And this:

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
--John 3:6


There are some religions that worship the breath, but that is not what is happening here.

[WhiteWings]

Were those spirits really dead? Or sleeping? Or imprisoned by veils?

[Molly]

For me, it's six of one, half a dozen of another.

The point is, you can't get there from here without Jesus.

[Molly]

We see a two part process.


John answered them all, saying, "I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
--Luke 3:16


After Jesus breathes on them and tells them to receive the Holy Spirit, he tells them..

(Acts 1: 4-5) "Do not leave Jerusalem but
wait for the promise of the Father, which you
have heard Me speak about. For John baptised
with water but in a few days you will
be baptised with the Holy Spirit."

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--
--John 14:16

We see now the Spirit lands on them as a mantle in the upper room.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. Acts 2

They are filled with the Holy Spirit, as well, and are now like the ark of the covenant, with beaten gold both inside and outside, covering both sides of the wood.

They are prepared now to do the works of God.

For the Kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
1 Cor 4:20

[Molly]

"power"

G1411
δύναμις
dunamis
doo'-nam-is
From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

[Cardinal]

Clearly the resurrected Christ was breathing upon already living [but spiritually dead] humans.  He tells them to receive the Holy Spirit.  This fulfills this scripture:

So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a quickening spirit.  1 Cor 15:45

And this:

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

And this:

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
--John 3:6


There are some religions that worship the breath, but that is not what is happening here.

Here's a thought.......one is a house, the other is the occupant of that house. He sort of built it (soul), so He could come, in visibility. The soul was given life, but it can't quicken life as the Spirit does. One receives seed, the other gives seed. One was created, one always existed. The first Adam was created, the last Adam creates.

For this reason, one is feminine in nature, one is masculine in nature, which is how we are made in His image.

[eaglesway]

IMO, When Jesus breathed on His disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit"- I believe He was illustrating a parable. He had not yet ascended to the Father. When Peter preaches the first message on the day of Pentecost he says that Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father "where He received the Holy Spirit and poured forth this which you do now see and hear"(Acts 2). The Comforter had not yet come. Jesus said earlier in John's gospel , "Rejoice that I go to my Father because the Comforter will come(paraphrase)".  Also,"He that believes in me, out of his innermost being will gush forth rivers of living water...This He spoke of the Spirit whom those who believe should receive.....But the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified(Jn 7)......and"This is that which was prophesied by the prophet Joel, I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh"(Acts 2)

IMO This particular dispensation of the Spirit is uniquely spoken of and too clearly identified in too many places to be some analogous fuzzball of maybes and could be's. It is clearly a distinct manifestation of God apart from, or better perhaps, in addition too, either the breath of life given to all men, or even the spirit of life that indwells those who believe- The first thing that Paul asks the disciples of John(Acts 19) is, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit since you believed?" To which they answered, "We never even heard of a holy spirit".

Similarly, Apollos, having only the baptism of John, demonstrated powerfully from the scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.  Priscilla and Aquilla showed Apollos the whole gospel, incorporating I am sure, baptism in water into the name of Jesus Christ, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit, as declared by Peter on the day of Pentecost.

To me, there is NO DOUBT that the spirit of God dwelled within the disciples of John the Baptist that Paul met, and also in Apollos, and definitely also in the 12- even before the time Jesus breathes on them in John 20....as John says in his epistle "No one can call Jesus Lord but by the Holy Spirit".   

What I believe we are talking about are different levels of, or depths of experience of, the Spirit of God in whom all men "live and move and have their being"(Acts 17).

That being said, I think that in John 20 Jesus was simply illustrating the nature of the experience they were to receive- His breath upon, within, and overflowing from them on the day of Pentecost, this being an experience of fulness in the spirit of God previously unavailable to men(except perhaps the prophets) and now only available to believers in Jesus Christ.....and even more than that, only to believing "disciples of Jesus". :2c:

[SkyOverCloudNed]

And God breathed His breath of life into that pile of molded clay and it became a living soul. The wording seemsquite emphatic, I can't argue with the fact that it takes clay and God's breath of life to create a living soul. Nowhere does it say otherwise and if it did then it would seem scripture would be contradicting itself making itself out to be a hypocritical lie.

You are, of course, talking about Adam.  Yet, no where else do we see that description of God deliberately and specifically breathing into his creation, save one place in the New Testament.  Are we to assume that something that is not described for Eve or anyone else actually happened?


And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

--John 20:22

it takes dust and God's breath of life to create a living soul.

all living creatures have a soul.

nephesh = soul

apparently, He did breath His breath of life into all creations/creatures and that is...what? Millions? Would Moses even have had that many years just to fatten the Genesis Creation account? Would it have been necessary?  Might it have swayed, say, the unbelievers, evolutionists, etc?

life = soul. Hebrew. nephesh, as in verses: Gen_1:21, Gen_1:24, Gen_1:30; Gen_2:7, Gen_2:19; Gen_9:4, Gen_9:5, Gen_9:5, Gen_9:10, Gen_9:12, Gen_9:15, Gen_9:16. Lev_11:46,

Gen 1:20  And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Gen 1:21  And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:30  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen 2:19  And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

creature = soul. Hebrew. nephesh

[SkyOverCloudNed]

Man is a soul who has a spirit, and lives in a body.

i'll buy that--is, not has, a soul, beyond that only those IN CHRIST have a spirit, plus The Holy Spirit

Eve was Adam's stony heart,

no sense, scripture book chapter verse?

God always multiplies by division and He's the only one that can do it that way.

no sense, scripture book chapter verse?

Death = division, and life comes out of death, it's a tool for Him to use. Unless a grain of wheat fall to the ground and dies (division of soul and spirit), it abideth alone, but if it dies, it brings forth much fruit (multiplication). We decrease, He increases.

far too much earthly metaphysical psychobabble...in plain scripture, book, chapter, verse--please!

this is all TO and FOR the JEWS--NOT this IN Christ

Ezekiel 11:19 KJV
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze. 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed ; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die , O house of Israel?

Eze. 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Revelation 2:17 KJV
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone

NOT IN SCRIPTURE__NOT GOD's BUT MAN"S UNQUALIFIED OPINION---(CLEAN VIRGIN SOUL THAT COMES DOWN FROM ABOVE = EVERY GOOD AND PERFECT GIFT COMES FROM ABOVE),

and in the stone a new name (NAME MEANS NATURE, A NEW SPIRIT = NEW NATURE)

written , which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

stone. Greek. psephos. See Act_26:10. A white stone was known to the ancients as a "victory" stone.

That which is made to receive, receives seed, and that seed expresses its nature through that which was made to receive it. My two cents...

[lomarah]

Ned I've tried to ignore you because I really don't have anything nice to say. You are a very opinionated person. Fine. But when it comes to Cardinal and what she writes it would be better for you to sit back and mull it over and pray for your eyes to be opened rather than spout out whatever you think is truth that you have not received from the Lord. Cardinal does not write of things she doesn't know. She writes what she receives from the Lord. Do yourself a favour and p ray for enlightenment before you type.

(So sorry jab...) :blush:

[Molly]

creature = soul. Hebrew. nephesh

Ned I understand how the OT treats this word and applies it to animals as well as man.  Am I to deduce from this that there is no difference between my dog and myself?  It's true my dog is exceptional and a genius in the world of dogs, but is he qualitatively just like me?  No.  This was not said of dogs:

Behold, the man has become as one of us to know good and evil.  Gen 3

We see a progressive revelation on these matters in the OT and the NT.  NT talks of the body, soul, and spirit of man.  A distinction is made in the NT between body and soul of man.  Paul even makes a distinction about different types of bodies:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

--1 Cor 15

Of the seed given to us, Paul says:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

--1 Cor 15

So this is a complicated subject matter, such complication only increased by the very fact that  we are being transformed and we shall be changed.



48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

--1 Cor 15

[lomarah]

Ned I've tried to ignore you because I really don't have anything nice to say. You are a very opinionated person. Fine. But when it comes to Cardinal and what she writes it would be better for you to sit back and mull it over and pray for your eyes to be opened rather than spout out whatever you think is truth that you have not received from the Lord. Cardinal does not write of things she doesn't know. She writes what she receives from the Lord. Do yourself a favour and p ray for enlightenment before you type.

(So sorry jab...) :blush:

(Oooohhhh I have so much more I want to say... "psychobabble"... oooooohhhhhh..... I had better go do something....)

[anna274]

Hi Sky:

I've already told you that I appreciate your scholarly approach to the study of the Scriptures; but why not just share your findings without comparing/evaluating others' attempts at seeking truth.  Each of us will answer to God for our individual misuse/abuse of the Scriptures that we "preach", "teach", "share"...  and, of course, it is God who will give the increase to the love, to the truth, etc., that we individually "preach". "teach" , "share"... anna 

[Molly]

I just realized my dog doesn't have an evil bone in his body.

Evil requires intent to do harm.

That makes my dog superior to me.  :faint:

[jabcat]

I think it's OK (and even necessary) to question (seek wisdom and discernment);  "test all things, hold to that which is good [ideal]"  I Thes. 5:21.  Also, to even ask for scriptural relevance/support, etc. from each other (self included).  I've been questioned about things I said, and realized I needed to search a little more/change my own view.  We're all in process.  There are thousands of doctrines and interpretations... "they searched the scriptures daily to see if those things were true" Acts 17:11

I believe it's also OK to either avoid getting caught up in different topics and posts, or to express how we feel about each others' posts and approach - as long as we're not judging/looking past our own beam.  I've often failed to do so, but we all need to talk about such things - on all sides of the issues - with love and gentleness.  Once again, posting "as I understand", "in my opinion", etc., is key.  Thanks, James.

[WhiteWings]

I just realized my dog doesn't have an evil bone in his body.

Evil requires intent to do harm.

That makes my dog superior to me.  :faint:

Did you just notice that?
Dogs sleep, eat and play all day.
You work, worry and pay all day.
(http://www.gifandgif.eu/animated_gif/Dogs/Animated%20Gif%20Dogs%20%28102%29.gif)

[peacemaker]

I just realized my dog doesn't have an evil bone in his body.

Evil requires intent to do harm.

That makes my dog superior to me.  :faint:

I believe dogs are the most amazing creatures.
They give you, unconditional love at all times.

"To err is human; to forgive, canine."

[WhiteWings]

"To err is human; to forgive, canine."[/i]

:laugh:

[jabcat]

You guys speak for yourselves.  Ours is an evil chihuahua that will bite your face off.