Reconcile This?

[jabcat]

I'm going to set this up 2 different ways.  One is a list of 2 things, I'll call "Grace" and "Sin".  The other is matching up two statements side-by-side.  All the same information, just presented in two different formats to help examine it.

"Grace"

all things are lawful
no condemnation to them is Christ Jesus
happy is the man who doesn't condemn himself in what he allows
it's no longer i that do it, but the sin that dwells in me
the things i want to do i don't, the things i dont' want to do, i do
it is finished
it's not what enters into a man that defiles him, but what comes out


"Sin"

turned over to satan for the sinful nature to be destroyed so the spirit will be saved in the day of the lord
there is a sin unto death, you should not pray for it
all unrighteousness is sin
another law...bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness
hate is murder;  lust is adultary

"Wild Card"

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness

------------------------------------------------

all things are lawful ---  all unrighteousness is sin

no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus --- there is a sin unto death, you should not pray for it

happy is the man who does not condemn himself in that which he allows --- another law...bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members

it's no longer i that do it, but the sin that dwells in me --- Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness

it is finished --- turned over to satan for the sinful nature to be destroyed so the spirit will be saved in the day of the lord

it's not what enters into a man that defiles him, but what comes out --- hate is murder;  lust is adultary



Thoughts on reconciling these things?

[CHB]

Hi jabcat,

I know most do not or will not agree with this but here is how I see these things.

It has to do with who is saying it and who it is being said to. I believe after Jesus was resurrected all of the apostles including Paul, taught New Covenant which had rules and regulations with it.

Paul later came to see and understand the mystery which was a little different from the New Covenant. Under the New Covenant one had to be grafted into Israel to be saved. Had to keep the Lord's Supper. Obstain from certain things. Repent. Have faith. None of these things were required with the mystery. Paul said ALL things were lawful to him. we do not now have to be grafted into Isarael, we are in the family of God. Israel is no longer the way to salvation, Jesus is. Paul was given this understanding to teach to the Gentiles. This doesn't mean that none of the Jew's accepted this teaching because some of them did, just like some of the Gentiles still believe we are in New Covenant but I find no where that God made an old or new Covenant with Gentiles.

All of the apostles were commissioned to preach New Covenant teaching, even paul at first, but Paul turned to the Gentiles, the others didn't. The Israelites were given the New Covenant and this is what the other apostles taught. This is why you see a little difference in the writings between Paul and the others.

When I came to see this all of the scriptures made sense. Before it seemed like some of them were contridictory when we know they are not.

CHB

[Molly]

The difference between the Old and the New Covenant is that somebody [Jesus] died.

The Old Covenant is a will.  Under the New Covenant the benefiiciaries inherit the assets in the will because the Testator has died.

We are the co-inheritors with Christ.  Christ is the mediator [Executor] of the will, marshalling the assets and handing them out to the beneficiaries.

This is the grace part of it.  But only a portion is handed out in this age [an earnest of our inheritance to seal us with the promise of our full redemption].  Thus, we are still under the law until we receive the full inheritance, and that is the 'sin' part of it.

So it can seem contradictory but it's not.  We are still children under the schoolmaster until we grow up into the head, even Christ.

Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. [Eph 4:15]

[jabcat]

C, I think that's an awesome post, with much to consider.  At the very least, I agree with "who being addressed", as these are statements from Jesus, John, Paul, etc., all having at least somewhat different focuses to their ministries/missions.  Jumbling all that up can seem contradictory.  You've made distinction there, plus, added some other things to take into account.   :thumbsup:

Molly, could you expound on "we're still under the law" piece?  I find it an interesting thing to consider that people like Zender say we (Gentiles) were never under the law - that it wasn't given to us.  I personally don't see myself as under the Law, but perhaps under "a law", i.e., that sin still works in my flesh (i.e., Paul said "no longer I that do it [THE Law no longer applied?")..but I think that may be a different L/law?   :dontknow: 

Paul also said the "old", "the Law", was passing/had passed away.  That now (yes, after the Death and Resurrection  :thumbsup:) a new work was in progress, the law written on our hearts.  I see that as having the new birth, the Holy Spirit leads and empowers us to please the Father, not serve Him out of drudgery and compulsion (although I personally very much mix them).

[Molly]

There is only one Covenant.

The mystery [the secret hidden from ages] stipulates to the beneficiaries.

Nothing has changed.  They were the beneficiaries before the foundation of the world.

Those beneficiaries, as it turns out, are the firstborn, the wild ox, the wild olive tree, those who were lost and now found.  "Grafted into" the cultivated olive tree is simply acknowledging that they are ready to claim their birthright in Christ.

Another way to look at it.  Christ is the Testator.  Christ is the benefiiciary.  Christ dies.  Christ inherits.  Christ is the Executor handing out the inheritance.

It works just like any other will, except we're talking about God.

[Molly]

What do we inherit under the New Covenant?

Ever think about that?   :girlheart:

[Molly]

Molly, could you expound on "we're still under the law" piece? I find it an interesting thing to consider that people like Zender say we (Gentiles) were never under the law - that it wasn't given to us;

Yes, of course the Law was given to us.  That's part of the Covenant.  He gives us a new heart of flesh [the sacred heart of Christ] and writes his law on our hearts and minds.

I Will Make a New Covenant
This Is the Covenant That I Will Make With Them
I Will Put My Laws Into Their Mind, and Write Them in Their Hearts


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:




33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
--Jer 31

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
[/i]



And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen 17:7

and to thy seed which is Christ.  [Gal 3:16]

Here we are in the Old Testament but he talks of a 'new covenant.'   Yet, we know that this same Covenant was cut with Abraham's seed long before this.

The Covenant with Abraham and this 'new' Covenant are one and the same.

But, we see at Sinai another Covenant was cut, not between Christ and his seed, but between God and Israel, where Israel had a part in upholding the terms of this Covenant.  They agreed, Yes we will keep your laws.  Of course they did not.  They broke his laws over and over again.  Broke them even before Moses came down from the mountain.  Before the ink was even dry, they broke the tablets of the law.  Therefore, this Covenant did not stand, not even from day one.

But this 'new' Covenant, the everlasting Covenant, is not between man and God.  It is between God and himself, therefore it will never be broken.

[rosered]

  Liked this Jab  :thumbsup:
  seeing the sin as death  and the grace as life

  seems the two trees 
as the 2 covenants 

one has good in it as  well as exposing the evil   nature


some scriptures you touched on ,  Paul says in Romans 7  and 8 explains the grace of God though Jesus Christ   =  this is the grace of God   

[jabcat]

Thanks rose.

Bob Wilkin writes;

What on earth did Paul mean when he said that "All things are lawful for me"?

Whatever he meant, he clearly did not mean that it was acceptable for Christians to defile the marriage bed, lie, cheat, murder, get drunk, covet, etc. Notice the three verses which precede verse 12. There Paul warns that the unrighteous-adulterers, homosexuals, thieves. covetous, drunkards, revilers and the like-will not inherit (i.e., possess, have a position of rulership in) the kingdom of God. Likewise, in the subsequent verses Paul commands them to flee immorality (v 18) and to glorify God in their bodies (v 20).

In several of his letters Paul gave lists of sins, things which were unlawful for Christians. See, for example, Ephesians 5:3-5, Galatians 5:19-21, and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11--the verses immediately preceding the verse in question. In Romans 8:7ff Paul refers to the believer's obligation to obey "the law of God." Yes, Paul taught that believers are no longer under the Law of Moses (Rom 10:4; Gal 3:25; 4:9-12, 21-31). However, he did not teach that we are under no law of any kind. We are under the commands of the New Testament. (By the way, nine of the ten commandments are repeated in the New Testament.)


When Paul refers to "all things" he means all things not specifically forbidden in Scripture. This is crystal clear in the immediate (6:1-20) and broader (8:1-11:1). Paul is referring to our liberty in unspecified areas. There is much freedom in our walk with Christ. We can choose any car, any apartment or house, any clothes, any food, any sport, etc., yet with two prominent restrictions.

Paul's first restriction to our liberty in unspecified things concerns its effect on others in the body: "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful." If our choice of clothes or food or the like will cause fellow believers to stumble, we are to restrict our freedom (1 Cor. 8-10).

Paul's second restriction to our liberty in unspecified matters concerns addictions: "All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." To be addicted to anything, even things which are not forbidden in Scripture, is wrong.

If I may tackle a major moral malady today, the consumption of wine and alcohol in my opinion falls in this category. The Scriptures do not forbid drinking altogether. However, in light of the high percentage of alcohol and drug addiction in our world today, would not a wise steward choose to abstain altogether? This would be wise both from the standpoint of not causing your brother to stumble and not opening yourself up to a very addicting substance. For example, if a pastor, elder, or deacon is seen drinking, would this not send the message to the youth and adults in the church that drinking is OK? Might this not contribute to the downfall of many? Indeed, I think it would and does. This is not only true of those in positions of leadership, but of all in the body.

Paul's point is that we have liberty in areas not specifically forbidden in Scripture with two restrictions. We are to restrict our liberty when to exercise it would injure a fellow believer. And, we are to restrict our liberty when we find that we are becoming or could become addicted to something.

[jabcat]

comments on his take?

[rosered]

  well Jab ,  I see  Bobs point on the law of liberty  that is motivated through love and trusting ,letting a conscience   be a guide / aware of the Holy Spirit   within them working ,  Paul worked harder to make up  for his error , where as  those without that debt  under the law of moses  were as one dead  to that law , it did its part /job

also  the Law of Love would never   defile  :HeartThrob: because forgiveness   made all the difference .. Paul / Saul  was a murderer  and was forgiven    and  appearing holy before men and actually being Holy before God and men  is not an act but a real work of the Holy Spirit
 
an  example Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loveth little. 

  its no good until you KNOW your forgiven  , most live with guilt / and still offering for sin , and never get past that  part   ,  we see this all the time in the   churches of babylon

[redhotmagma]

The whole alcohol thing is kind of funny.  I agree there are dangers with substances like alcohol and drugs.  But sugar is much more addictive than alcohol is to many people.  So then we should all completely abstain from sugar.  Video games are very addictive to me, so everyone should completely abstain from video games.  Coffee is the most addictive, and abused drug there is.  Don't drink coffee.  Many runners become addicted to running to the point of doing real damage to their body (I'm anti running so this one I believe everyone should abstain from, I mean if you're out running in the freezing rain in the dark, you have a serious problem :laughing7:).

Where does it end? 

For me I have had an issue with alcohol since I was young.  We grew up in a strict baptist church.  No alcohol, no dancing, etc etc.  My issue was that when I read the bible, there is Jesus turning water into wine, the kind that gets people drunk, not grape juice as my teachers and pastors would say.  At the festivals they drank alcoholic wine.  It would have been 5 months since the grape harvest, there was no new wine left at passover.

My issue is not with an addiction problem to alcohol, interestingly its one of the only substances I've never really abused.  But saying to completely abstain seems to be adding to the burden.  Next all women should only wear burkas, and men should wear full suits everywhere.  My cousins weren't allowed to wear shorts for a while, even when playing outside in the hot summer.

If you're teaching your kids something that goes against what the bible is saying well that becomes a stumbling block for that child.  I know it did for me, it didn't help that most of the people in our church didn't exhibit the traits of Jesus love to others, that I kept reading about. 

I guess I'm more concerned about legalism.  If you're in love with Christ and being led by his spirit the rest will fall into place. :2c:

[CHB]

I think the only laws we have today that God is pleased with is LOVE for God and man. Of course love covers many areas of humanism. Is that a word?  :bigGrin:

CHB

[CHB]

I Will Make a New Covenant
This Is the Covenant That I Will Make With Them
I Will Put My Laws Into Their Mind, and Write Them in Their Hearts


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Molly, this is your quote do you see anything in it about Gentiles?

When Jesus died that ended the Old Covenant and instituted the New Covenant with Israel and Judah. This is what I see written anyway.

Jesus said Himself, "I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". I think he was referring to the Covenants.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

When Paul refers to "all things" he means all things not specifically forbidden in Scripture. This is crystal clear in the immediate (6:1-20) and broader (8:1-11:1). Paul is referring to our liberty in unspecified areas. There is much freedom in our walk with Christ. We can choose any car, any apartment or house, any clothes, any food, any sport, etc., yet with two prominent restrictions.

Paul's first restriction to our liberty in unspecified things concerns its effect on others in the body: "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful." If our choice of clothes or food or the like will cause fellow believers to stumble, we are to restrict our freedom (1 Cor. 8-10).

Paul's second restriction to our liberty in unspecified matters concerns addictions: "All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." To be addicted to anything, even things which are not forbidden in Scripture, is wrong.

If I may tackle a major moral malady today, the consumption of wine and alcohol in my opinion falls in this category.

comments on his take?

Pharisee v2.0

[Molly]

I Will Make a New Covenant
This Is the Covenant That I Will Make With Them
I Will Put My Laws Into Their Mind, and Write Them in Their Hearts


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Molly, this is your quote do you see anything in it about Gentiles?

When Jesus died that ended the Old Covenant and instituted the New Covenant with Israel and Judah. This is what I see written anyway.

Jesus said Himself, "I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". I think he was referring to the Covenants.

CHB

Hi CHB, I have just spent about 70 pages on another thread trying to prove to people that the people mentioned in Jer 31:31 are the Gentiles who come to believe in Christ after his death.  I guess I didn't do a very good job of it.  :laughing7:

But, let me ask you this:  What do you mean by 'the old covenant ended when Jesus died.'  Do you think that God just breaks his own covenants?  Please explain to me how that would happen.  Did God say, I don't like this agreement anymore, I declare it null and void?  We are talking about a contract, here, which is why Paul so often sounds just like a lawyer.


and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. [Heb 12:24]


Let's see what that word, "covenant" means:


"covenant"

.
G1242
διαθήκη
diathēkē
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament


THE COVENANT IS A WILL, IS A WILL, IS A WILL.  THE TESTATOR HAS TO DIE FOR THE CONTRACT TO GO INTO EFFECT.  ONCE IT GOES INTO EFFECT, THE BENEFICIARIES INHERIT.

The Testament goes into effect when Jesus dies.



"testament"

tes·ta·ment/ˈtestəmənt/

Noun:


1.A person's will, esp. the part relating to personal property.

[redhotmagma]

The old covenant was weak, useless, hung on the cross, buried in the ground.  These are not my words. 

[CHB]

But, let me ask you this:  What do you mean by 'the old covenant ended when Jesus died.'  Do you think that God just breaks his own covenants?  Please explain to me how that would happen.  Did God say, I don't like this agreement anymore, I declare it null and void?  We are talking about a contract, here, which is why Paul so often sounds just like a lawyer.

Hi Molly,

You don't think we have two Covenants now do you?

(Heb. 8:13) In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Look at what Paul said about a  husband and wife.

Rom. chapter 7.
The law has dominion over a man AS LONG AS HE LIVETH {Jesus}.

If her husband be dead she is free from that law {Israel}.

(Verse 4) Wherefore, my brethern,{Israel} YE ALSO ARE BECOME DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST. That ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead.

We see here that while Jesus was living the Old Covenant was in force but once he died that annuled the OC. Then it says that "ye should be married to another, even him who is raised from the dead". This brought the New Covenant into force.

(Heb. 9:15-17) And for this cause he is the mediator of THE NEW TESTAMENT, {new covenant} that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament. {old Covenant}

(Verse 16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testor. {Christ}

(Verse 17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

When Jesus died this annuled the Old and brought in the New.

Heb. 10:9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, that he may ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

CHB

[redhotmagma]

But, let me ask you this:  What do you mean by 'the old covenant ended when Jesus died.'  Do you think that God just breaks his own covenants?  Please explain to me how that would happen.  Did God say, I don't like this agreement anymore, I declare it null and void?  We are talking about a contract, here, which is why Paul so often sounds just like a lawyer.

Hi Molly,

You don't think we have two Covenants now do you?

(Heb. 8:13) In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Look at what Paul said about a  husband and wife.

Rom. chapter 7.
The law has dominion over a man AS LONG AS HE LIVETH {Jesus}.

If her husband be dead she is free from that law {Israel}.

(Verse 4) Wherefore, my brethern,{Israel} YE ALSO ARE BECOME DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST. That ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead.

We see here that while Jesus was living the Old Covenant was in force but once he died that annuled the OC. Then it says that "ye should be married to another, even him who is raised from the dead". This brought the New Covenant into force.

(Heb. 9:15-17) And for this cause he is the mediator of THE NEW TESTAMENT, {new covenant} that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament. {old Covenant}

(Verse 16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testor. {Christ}

(Verse 17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

When Jesus died this annuled the Old and brought in the New.

Heb. 10:9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, that he may ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

CHB

:thumbsup:

[Molly]

But, let me ask you this:  What do you mean by 'the old covenant ended when Jesus died.'  Do you think that God just breaks his own covenants?  Please explain to me how that would happen.  Did God say, I don't like this agreement anymore, I declare it null and void?  We are talking about a contract, here, which is why Paul so often sounds just like a lawyer.

Hi Molly,

You don't think we have two Covenants now do you?

(Heb. 8:13) In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Look at what Paul said about a  husband and wife.

Rom. chapter 7.
The law has dominion over a man AS LONG AS HE LIVETH {Jesus}.

If her husband be dead she is free from that law {Israel}.

(Verse 4) Wherefore, my brethern,{Israel} YE ALSO ARE BECOME DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST. That ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead.

We see here that while Jesus was living the Old Covenant was in force but once he died that annuled the OC. Then it says that "ye should be married to another, even him who is raised from the dead". This brought the New Covenant into force.

(Heb. 9:15-17) And for this cause he is the mediator of THE NEW TESTAMENT, {new covenant} that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament. {old Covenant}

(Verse 16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testor. {Christ}

(Verse 17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

When Jesus died this annuled the Old and brought in the New.

Heb. 10:9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, that he may ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

CHB

:thumbsup:

If I write a will, and leave everything to my children, what happens while I'm alive?  Nothing.  They just go on doing their thing and living their life.

What happens when I die?  They inherit all my property.

So, is the will the same before and after I die?  Yes.  But, it doesn't go into effect until I die.

I cannot change my mind and write a new will after I die.  My death does not annul the will, it enforces it.

Now, what if---I write the will and put it aside, but then I make another agreement with my children--while I am alive,  I will give each of you 5000 a year if you work for me during the year.

So, we do that, if they work for me I give them the money, and if they don't, I don't.

After I die, THAT contract is annulled because I am dead, but now my will goes into effect and they inherit everything.

So something deeper is going on here.

And, yes there are two covenants. One is a Covenant with death, but it's temporary, used as a stop gap until the children can inherit.  We see this in wills, too, where trustees are placed over the children until they come of age.

[CHB]

I cannot change my mind and write a new will after I die.  My death does not annul the will, it enforces it.

God/Jesus Christ was married to israel. The Old Covenant was like a marriage contract.  After He died this agreement was no longer valid. The marriage Covenant was replaced by a new one which was promised in Jeremiah 31:31-32. Look in verse 32 where it says "I was a husband unto them".

CHB

[Molly]

I cannot change my mind and write a new will after I die.  My death does not annul the will, it enforces it.

God/Jesus Christ was married to israel. The Old Covenant was like a marriage contract.  After He died this agreement was no longer valid. The marriage Covenant was replaced by a new one which was promised in Jeremiah 31:31-32. Look in verse 32 where it says "I was a husband unto them".

CHB

Yes, I agree.  A divorced woman cannot remarry until her husband dies.  This is a law in Leviticus.

If you look at the OT, you will see that God divorces the house of Israel [the northern ten tribes].  He does not divorce the house of Judah.

Therefore, the house of Israel cannot remarry until her husband [Jesus] dies, which is how the church is now able to become the bride of Christ.  She can marry again.

Yes he does call it a 'new' covenant in Jer 31, but, this is still part of the same covenant made with Abraham, a will under which the seed of Abraham is the beneficiary--

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. Gal 3:16

This is the covenant under which we inherit.  We can't inherit unless the testator dies.  So over the millenia, things happened, things changed, a side agreement was struck, people were divorced, blessings were added to the will,  but this Covenant, will, always remained in effect, for which reason it is called 'everlasting.'


I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me. Jer 32:40

[jabcat]

We talk a lot about "all".

Paul must not have truly meant "all" when he said "all things are lawful", as there are other verses where he condemns multiple things as sinful and should not be done.  Doesn't context define (or at least indicate) what "all" he's talking about?  Or does what does "lawful" actually mean enter in here, i.e., being under the Law vs. having the Law written our hearts are two different things?    For instance, are we under the Law (so some things aren't Lawful) or does the "law written on our hearts" mean something different?  Such as, doing/not doing according to Law vs. doing/not doing according the Holy Spirit leading us and placing in us a desire to please our Father?    Would the latter mean all things are technically lawful, but many things still sinful (not "expedient") for someone believing and desiring to live for Him?

One more question.  Have I asked too many questions?   :laughing7:

[eaglesway]

In both instances when Paul uses this phrase he is speaking about meats sacrificed to idols IMO, and also IMO context is the most important part of any topical examination of the scriptures.

I love the question, because it highlights the trap of our tendency to place absolute meanings on words that do not really play out through all occurrences. Pity, Pity..... we learn again the letter kills, the spirit gives life, ears to hear, be careful how you hear, seeing but not perceiving, hearing but not understanding, etc, etc.

Definitions can only give so much>>>>>>> the heart of God must give the rest.

[Molly]

All things are lawful to me but not all things are expedient--I think he is saying that in the interest of holiness, right living, and a good example, we should not abuse the freedom that we have in Christ.

I don't think he is referring to things like murder, for instance, but rather to things like lifestyle issues.