ROSH HASHANA BEGAN AT SUNDOWN TODAY

[WhiteWings]

Don't know about the USA but here atheists celebrate Christmas, Easter, New Year, Carnaval etc. Thanksgiving we don't have.

I'm wondering why your thanksgiving isn't at the same date as the Jewish one. Or at least at the harvest of the same type of crop.

[sheila]

 there was a young virgin...whose jewish roots were hidden....she took a babylon name 'ester' an evil plot of Haman to destroy all jews was hatched......

    she sued for her people's lives.........and revealed her jewish identity[christians roots are jewish]

[Molly]

Don't know about the USA but here atheists celebrate Christmas, Easter, New Year, Carnaval etc. Thanksgiving we don't have.

I'm wondering why your thanksgiving isn't at the same date as the Jewish one. Or at least at the harvest of the same type of crop.

They are doing their best to shut down Christmas here and replace it with who knows what, holidays I've never heard of lol.

It's ok to celebrate any holiday in public school as long as it is not a Christian one.

Like I said the Pilgrims celebrated Thanksgiving/Tabernacles at the right time of year, but that was changed in the 1800's and again in the 1900's to bring it closer to Christmas, probably for marketing purposes [in the case of FDR].

Carnival?  What's that?

[sheila]

 thanks for that 'heads up" Molly,regarding Thanks giving and Sukkot.   The  hebrew word for turkey is Indian chicken..and also 'thanks' too,too,much!!

   so 'turkey day' is 'thanks day" lol!  love it! :laughing7:

[Molly]

there was a young virgin...whose jewish roots were hidden....she took a babylon name 'ester' an evil plot of Haman to destroy all jews was hatched......

    she sued for her people's lives.........and revealed her jewish identity[christians roots are jewish]

But don't be afraid of those who threaten you. For the time is coming when everything that is hidden will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all. [Mat 10:26]

I get a lot of comfort in that.  But, sometimes he is the one who hides us, even from ourselves, for purposes of his own.

For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. [Col 3:3]

[lomarah]

Carnaval, I just heard about that in the movie 'Rio'. Don't have a clue what it's about but in the movie there was a huge parade with loads of lights and a bunch of people dressed up like birds... but that may have been because the movie was centered around bird characters... lol now i'm going to have to Google it.

[Molly]

Carnaval, I just heard about that in the movie 'Rio'. Don't have a clue what it's about but in the movie there was a huge parade with loads of lights and a bunch of people dressed up like birds... but that may have been because the movie was centered around bird characters... lol now i'm going to have to Google it.

whitewings really dresses up like a bird?!  :mshock:   :laughing7:

[Molly]

At the time of Jesus, only the Jews [out of 12 tribes] were observing the feast of Tabernacles.


1After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

2Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand.

--John 7


Jesus sends his disciples on ahead to the feast and follows later in secret.  He knows the Jews are seeking to kill him.


8Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come.

9When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.

10But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

--John 7



The Jews are looking for him at the feast.  They knew he would attend.


11Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?

12And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.

13Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.

--John 7



They find Jesus in the middle of the feast teaching at the temple.


14Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.

15And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

16Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

--John 7



Jesus gives a prophecy about a time when God will tabernacle with men.


7In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

--John 7



3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. -[Rev 21]

[WhiteWings]

Don't know about the USA but here atheists celebrate Christmas, Easter, New Year, Carnaval etc. Thanksgiving we don't have.

I'm wondering why your thanksgiving isn't at the same date as the Jewish one. Or at least at the harvest of the same type of crop.

They are doing their best to shut down Christmas here and replace it with who knows what, holidays I've never heard of lol.

It's ok to celebrate any holiday in public school as long as it is not a Christian one.

Like I said the Pilgrims celebrated Thanksgiving/Tabernacles at the right time of year, but that was changed in the 1800's and again in the 1900's to bring it closer to Christmas, probably for marketing purposes [in the case of FDR].

Carnival?  What's that?

It's a 5 (???) day feast that takes place 40 days before easter. There is some dispute what carneval actually means. It's two Latin words carne and vale. Meaning farewell meat/flesh. No meat (except fish) was eaten for 40 days.
It was also a farewell to stored food. Spring arrived and fresh produce of the land was eaten. (weird because I know for a fact nothing is harvested at this time of the year. But possibly in the past when the climate was warmer)
This has some parallels with First Fruits. If you read about it you'll see the Jews ate bread of old grain in the morning and bread of freshly harvested grain in the evening.
It's also a celebration of the spring season. Rebirth of nature.

Carnaval, I just heard about that in the movie 'Rio'. Don't have a clue what it's about but in the movie there was a huge parade with loads of lights and a bunch of people dressed up like birds... but that may have been because the movie was centered around bird characters... lol now i'm going to have to Google it.

Not really as birds. as about everything. All sorts of masks and costumes to scare of evil spirits. A huge boozing festival. In the past there was a spike in November/December births. Count back 9 months and you are at carnaval :winkgrin:
The masks are also said to be worship of the dead. As said a lot of booze that's why it's also called (can't translate it to English) Carnaval bacchanal. Meaning excess of drinking. Of course bacchanal comes from Bacchus. The favorite god of Caligula know for his parties in honor of Bacchus the god of wine and sex. Massive orgies with wine that were celebrated on the very spot the Vatican is build now. It's build on one of Rome's 7 hills. It was a swamp area with lots of shallow graves. Lots of wild dogs/wolves digging there to eat the corpses. The hill was called vaticanis. Dwelling place of the dogs. Rome was founded by two orphan twin brothers called Remus and Romulus. The boy were nutured by a she-wolf. Romulus killed Remus and founded Rome. Wolves are dogs = canis. So there is also link between carnival and wolves. The special Wolfe day was 15 February. Now know valentines day. Two nude young men representing Remus and Romulus ran around in Rome with bloody strips of wolf skin. Young virgins showed their genitals and were whipped with the blooded wolf skins. It was a fertility festival. Valentines day back then was called Lupercalia, wolf festival. The symbol of Bacchus was a heart shaped ivy leaf. And of course links back to Nimrod the great warrior. The great archer. Cupid. Some tunnels beneath the Vatican are made of human bones.
That brings us to another possible meaning of carnival. Flesh raising.


Yes you guessed it by now... Carnival is a Catholic festival :winkgrin:

[WhiteWings]

Carnaval, I just heard about that in the movie 'Rio'. Don't have a clue what it's about but in the movie there was a huge parade with loads of lights and a bunch of people dressed up like birds... but that may have been because the movie was centered around bird characters... lol now i'm going to have to Google it.

whitewings really dresses up like a bird?!  :mshock:   :laughing7:

Yup. Below last year's picture of me after a few glasses of Bacchuscardi  :icon_jokercolor:

(http://94.100.122.139/223300001-223350000/223319401-223319500/223319443_5_J7AZ.jpeg)

[redhotmagma]

aka Mardis gras here in the states

[WhiteWings]

aka Mardis gras here in the states

The pictures surely look similar.
BTW Prince Carnaval is elected November 11th (11-11) each year. And is "burried" at the end of carnaval.

[Molly]

aka Mardis gras here in the states

The pictures surely look similar.
BTW Prince Carnaval is elected November 11th (11-11) each year. And is "burried" at the end of carnaval.

well, now that we know what the other side is doing, let's see what our side is doing.  :laughing7:



The Feast of TABERNACLES (Sukkot) Tishri 15-22 ~ September/October


The seventh and final Festival of the Lord is called the Feast of Tabernacles. It starts five days after the Day of Atonement on the fifteenth of Tishri (October).

This festival is also called the Feast of Ingathering:

"And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field."
(Exodus 23:16)

The Feast unto the Lord:

"Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath."
(Leviticus 23:39)

And, the Feast of Booths, or simply "the feast"; (Leviticus 23:36; Deuteronomy 16:13; I Kings 8:2; II Chronicles 5:3, 7:8; Nehemiah 8:14; Isaiah 30:29; Ezekiel 45:23,25) because it was so well-known.

Historical Significance

After the Israelites returned from exile, Ezra read the law and led them in acts of penitence during the Feast of Tabernacles.

"And on the second day were gathered together the chief of the fathers of all the people, the priests, and the Levites, unto Ezra the scribe, even to understand the words of the law.
And they found written in the law which the LORD had commanded by Moses, that the children of Israel should dwell in booths in the feast of the seventh month:
And that they should publish and proclaim in all their cities, and in Jerusalem, saying, Go forth unto the mount, and fetch olive branches, and pine branches, and myrtle branches, and palm branches, and branches of thick trees, to make booths, as it is written.
So the people went forth, and brought them, and made themselves booths, every one upon the roof of his house, and in their courts, and in the courts of the house of God, and in the street of the water gate, and in the street of the gate of Ephraim.
And all the congregation of them that were come again out of the captivity made booths, and sat under the booths: for since the days of Jeshua the son of Nun unto that day had not the children of Israel done so. And there was very great gladness.
Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner."
(Nehemiah 8:13-18).

The dedication of Solomon's' Temple also took place during this feast.

"And all the men of Israel assembled themselves unto king Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which is the seventh month."
(I Kings 8:2)

Later, Josephus referred to the Feast of Tabernacles as the holiest and greatest of all the Hebrew festivals. Also, in Israel, the rains normally stop in March. There is no rain for almost seven months following. If God does not provide the "early" rains of October and November there would be no spring crop because famine would devastate the land and its people. This festival then, was intended to invoke God's blessing on the nation by providing life-giving water.

Festival Observance

On the first day of the feast, each participant had to collect twigs of myrtle, willow, and palm in the area of Jerusalem for construction of their booth (Nehemiah 8:13-18). These "huts" or "booths" were constructed from bulrushes as joyful reminders of the temporary housing erected by their forefathers during the Exodus wanderings (Leviticus 23:40-41; Deuteronomy 16:14). The "booth" in Scripture is a symbol of protection, preservation, and shelter from heat and storm. That is why this festival was commonly known as the Feast of Booths.

"For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock."
(Psalm 27:5)

"Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues."
(Psalm 31:20)

"And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the day time from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain."
(Isaiah 4:6)

The festival and rejoicing was to include the entire community, your family, servants, orphans, widows, and even strangers, anyone within the gates of the city.

"Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:
And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates.
Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD shall choose: because the LORD thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice."
(Deuteronomy 16:13-15)

Besides the construction of the booths and ingathering of the labors of the field as noted above, other festivities included the ingathering of the mills and winepress, and the ingathering of the fruit of the earth. Samples of the fall crop were hung in each family's booth to acknowledge God's faithfulness in providing for His people.

"Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:"
(Deuteronomy 16:13)

"Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath."
(Leviticus 23:39)

On the eighth and final day of the feast, the high priest of Israel, in a great processional made up of priests and tens of thousands of worshipers, descended from the Temple Mount to pause briefly at the Pool of Siloam. A pitcher was filled with water, and the procession continued via a different route back to the Temple Mount. Here, in the midst of great ceremony, the high priest poured the water out of the pitcher onto the altar.

Another ritual included the lighting of huge Menorahs (candelabras) at the Court of the Women. This is believed to be the probable background for Jesus' statement:

"I am the light of the world."
(John 8:12)

Spiritual and Prophetic Significance

It is in connection with the Festival of Tabernacles and this eighth day that the gospel of John records a fascinating event. John wrote:

"In the last day (eighth day), that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water"
(John 7:37-38)

The Son of God was saying in the clearest possible way that He alone was the source of life and blessing; that He could meet every need of the human heart.

The water and the "pillar of light" provided during the wilderness wandering (when people dwelt in tabernacles) was temporary and in contrast to the continuing water and light claimed by Jesus during this feast which commemorated that wandering period.

The various prophetic revelations, which speak about the coming of all nations to worship at Jerusalem, refer to the Festival of Tabernacles on the occasion of their pilgrimage.

"And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts."
(Zechariah 14:16-21)

This feast speaks eloquently of Christ's Millennium Age and Kingdom where there will be a new beginning without the ravages of the curse of sin. In that day, the earth will give her full bounty, all animals will be docile;

"The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."
(Isaiah 65:25)

Armies will no longer march, every man will sit under his own fig tree;

"But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it."
(Micah 4:4)

And at that time, righteousness will have become a reality for all the Earth.

Importance of the Festival

Points to be emphasized concerning the Festival of Tabernacles

+ The return of Jesus and His establishment as ruler over all the Earth marks the end of the Church Age and ushers in the beginning of the New Millennium of Christ's Kingdom.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."
(Revelation 5: 9-10)

+ Christ will live and "tabernacle" with His people here on Earth for one thousand years and provide for all of their needs.

"Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
(Revelation 7: 15-17)

+ The New Millennium Age is the fulfillment of the last part of the seven thousand years of God's plan for His people on Earth since our original placement in Eden with Adam and Eve.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://blog.foreverinchrist.org/the-seven-festivals-of-the-lord-christian-education-resources-scripture/tabernacles1- PASSOVER ~ 2- UNLEAVENED BREAD ~ 3- FIRSTFRUITS
4- PENTECOST ~ 5- TRUMPETS ~ 6- ATONEMENT ~ 7- TABERNACLES 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[jabcat]

When they refer to scripture in the New Testament, they are talking about the Old Testament, because there was not yet any New Testament complied.

I know that makes logical sense, and it may even be true   :laugh2:

Another thought;  surely God knew from the very beginning what He would have written down for us in the coming years - what would end up as our "canon".  The Holy Spirit would have known what was "coming" when Paul was inspired to write "all scripture is inspired and useful for..."  You know, the timelessness/other dimensions thing of God, Him being outside those limitations, etc.  So maybe He was really talking about more than the OT, at least in some instances, and especially the above quote of Paul, at least .

[micah7:9]

Don't know about the USA but here atheists celebrate Christmas, Easter, New Year, Carnaval etc. Thanksgiving we don't have.

I'm wondering why your thanksgiving isn't at the same date as the Jewish one. Or at least at the harvest of the same type of crop.

They are doing their best to shut down Christmas here and replace it with who knows what, holidays I've never heard of lol.

It's ok to celebrate any holiday in public school as long as it is not a Christian one.

Like I said the Pilgrims celebrated Thanksgiving/Tabernacles at the right time of year, but that was changed in the 1800's and again in the 1900's to bring it closer to Christmas, probably for marketing purposes [in the case of FDR].

Carnival?  What's that?

Being honestly sarcastic........so what. The only days as far as I know that is relevant to us today is Jan. 1st, July 4th, Veterans Day, and I do like a good meal in Nov. so Thanksgiving is GOOD. I am an veteran and a American so I will rise and salute.
Gal 4:10  days ye observe, and months, and times, and years!
Gal 4:11  I am afraid of you, lest in vain I did labour toward you.

[WhiteWings]

When they refer to scripture in the New Testament, they are talking about the Old Testament, because there was not yet any New Testament complied.

I know that makes logical sense, and it may even be true   :laugh2:

Another thought;  surely God knew from the very beginning what He would have written down for us in the coming years - what would end up as our "canon".  The Holy Spirit would have known what was "coming" when Paul was inspired to write "all scripture is inspired and useful for..."  You know, the timelessness/other dimensions thing of God, Him being outside those limitations, etc.  So maybe He was really talking about more than the OT, at least in some instances, and especially the above quote of Paul, at least .

OT and NT is an invention of man. NT is nothing more than extra books the already existing Scripture. The fact that Jesus is in the NT isn't really important I think because the OT has phases of different types of rulership (kings, judges, etc). The rulership type of Jesus is just another one in that row.

Personally I think publishing NT only is against:
Matt 5 [ACV]
18 For truly I say to you, until the heaven and the earth pass away, one iota or one tittle will, no, not pass away from the law, until all things come to pass.

All didn't pass away yet. That point is the last verse of Revelation.
So instead of OT and NT there is only Bible or Scripture.

2Tim 3 [ACV]
16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for instruction, for reproof, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,

Jesus wansn't teaching anything new. He thaught OT things. One of the proofs of that are the Scribs that tried to trick Him during most of His Ministry. They never liked His teachings or answers to their attempts to trick them. But when He answered they stopped responding. That clearly means Jesus answered them with Scripture they knew from their OT

[Molly]

Jesus wansn't teaching anything new. He thaught OT things

well, he taught he was the fulfillment of OT prophecy, OT law.


Then he said, "When I was with you before, I told you that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled." [Lk 24:44]


And, now we do move on to something new in him.


In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. [Heb8:13]



Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!  2 Cor 9:17

[Molly]

Today is the day of Atonement.


Christian observances of Yom Kippur occur when a Christian-style Day of Atonement models itself on the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur.



[edit] BackgroundThe Day of Atonement has deep theological significance in the New Testament. Chapters 8 to 10 of the Epistle to the Hebrews argue that it pointed forward to Christ's work as priest. On the one hand, "only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance," (Hebrews 9:7). Christ, however, "went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption," (Hebrews 9:11-12). F. F. Bruce notes that the author views Christ's redemptive work "as the antitypical fulfilment of the sacrificial ritual of the day of atonement."[1]

The New Testament refers to Day of Atonement in Acts 27:9.[2] Because of the apostolic practice of observing Yom Kippur, a small number of evangelical Christians observe it today. Roderick C. Meredith, leader of the Living Church of God, believes that the Day of Atonement "pictures the binding of Satan at the beginning of the Millennium and the world becoming at one with God."[3]

[edit] Jews for JesusMain article: Jews for Jesus
The Jews for Jesus movements states and describes its observances of this day as follows:

"...Yom Kippur can be somewhat of a conundrum to Jewish believers in Y'shua. Do we fast and confess our sins like the rest of the Jewish community or do we rejoice in the knowledge that we're forgiven in Messiah? Many Jewish believers view Yom Kippur as a time for identification with our Jewish people, introspection for ourselves and intercession for loved ones, knowing all the while that Jesus is the One that makes us at one with God..." [4].
The same organization posts the histories of adherents who came to observe Yom Kippur as a part of worshiping Jesus called Y'shua or Yeshua:

"Synagogue is hardly the scene to begin a story about believing in Jesus, but it was there my questions started...From that point on, the entire Bible opened up. God's own Word described the One who would come, die, bear the sins of humanity, and be rejected. I knew that I had found the answer to my prayers in Jesus. I had met the God of Israel. It was through this Yom Kippur prayer that I came to see myself before God. There is no explaining away of sin. But there is a sin-bearer and "...that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses." (Acts 13:38, 39.)"[5].
[edit] Messianic Jewish congregationsMain articles: Messianic Judaism and Hebrew Christians
Messianic Jewish congregations devote serious effort at presenting a rationale for taking Yom Kippur. Such as by the Emmanuel Messianic Jewish Congregation (Clarksville, Maryland, USA):

"For believers in Yeshua, both Jewish and non-Jewish, the observance of Yom Kippur can hold special significance. The repentance started at Rosh HaShanah comes to a culmination with atonement ten days later. As with the traditional Jewish community, those ten days (Yomim Nora'im) can take on spiritual meaning as we meditate on the meaning of the high holy days. Although there are not many customs directly relating to the ten days, the message could be applied to a believer's daily meditation at that time. Traditional readings from the book of Jonah, Hosea 14 and other pertinent passages can enhance one's appreciation of the season...Blessed be the Lord God, who has secured our salvation in Yeshua the Messiah! That is what Yom Kippur is all about for those who call on his name..."[6].
Or that of Congregation Shma Yisrael (Rochester, New York, USA):

"...What's with the goats? (See Leviticus 16)...The wilderness goat died, leaving the iniquities in the wilderness. Yeshua took our iniquities to Sheol. (See Revelation 1:18.)..."[7].
[edit] Sabbatarian churchesMain articles: Church of God and Sabbath in seventh-day churches
As observed by the Living Church of God:

The Christian Day of Atonement is based on the English translation of the Jewish Holy day Yom Kippur. In the original Hebrew, the Bible calls the day Yom Hakippurim (Hebrew for "Day of the Atonements"). The day is commemorated with a 25-hour fast by Jews, but normally a 24 hour fast by Christians who observe it. While not observed by the mainstream of professing Christianity, the Christian groups (mostly those with origins in the old Worldwide Church of God) that do observe it usually refer to it as the Day of Atonement...[8]

--Wikipedia


9Now when much time was spent, and when sailing was now dangerous, because the fast was now already past, Paul admonished them,
--Acts 27.9

[Molly]

Reading for the day of Atonement.


Hosea 14


1 O israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.

2Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

3Asshur shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses: neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods: for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy.

4I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.

5I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.

6His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon.

7They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon.

8Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.

9Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.

[Molly]

OT and NT is an invention of man

You of all people who have proven time and again that the whole Bible written over thousands of years by multiple authors is written by one hand...

I am going to pray for you whitewings that he reveal himself to you, that you hear from him.

It's time for you to see him with your own eyes, and hear him with your own ears.

Lord Jesus please reveal yourself to your precious servant Whitewings...Amen.

[WhiteWings]

Jesus wansn't teaching anything new. He thaught OT things

well, he taught he was the fulfillment of OT prophecy, OT law.

That's an OT thing too. The Jews waited (and still do) for the Messiah that would change all things.

That said I should have written "Almost nothing new" because there are some new things.

[WhiteWings]

OT and NT is an invention of man

You of all people who have proven time and again that the whole Bible written over thousands of years by multiple authors is written by one hand...

You completly misunderstood me Molly.
The chapters, verse numbering and splitting up the Bible in OT and NT is manmade. There are NT only Bibles but not OT only Bibles (for Christians)
For me that implies the OT is "done away with".
Why isn't the OT sold as seperate books? Kings. Judges. etc. It were ways of government that replaced (done away) others forms. Is Exodus done away because Leviticus explains some new laws? No it adds to Exodus.
The NT shows Jesus attended to some feasts. Useless info without OT info about what those feasts are actually about.

I think splitting the Bible in OT and NT gave rise to many false doctrines because it's far more easy to twist anything Jesus said without checking against the OT what He actually was talking about.
:2c:

[redhotmagma]

If there should be a split between OT and NT (which I agree with WW there shouldn't be)  it should probably be at ACts when HS comes at pentecost, or around resurrection.  But I believe when seen in its original order you see the gospels are the hinge between the OC and the NC.

[Molly]

OT and NT is an invention of man

You of all people who have proven time and again that the whole Bible written over thousands of years by multiple authors is written by one hand...

You completly misunderstood me Molly.
The chapters, verse numbering and splitting up the Bible in OT and NT is manmade. There are NT only Bibles but not OT only Bibles (for Christians)
For me that implies the OT is "done away with".
Why isn't the OT sold as seperate books? Kings. Judges. etc. It were ways of government that replaced (done away) others forms. Is Exodus done away because Leviticus explains some new laws? No it adds to Exodus.
The NT shows Jesus attended to some feasts. Useless info without OT info about what those feasts are actually about.

I think splitting the Bible in OT and NT gave rise to many false doctrines because it's far more easy to twist anything Jesus said without checking against the OT what He actually was talking about.
:2c:

Interesting.  I don't know.  I do know that as a child much of the teaching I received was out of the OT.   I just assumed that was true of all Protestant denominations, because it is a classical Protestant approach to the Bible.   [Except for high Episcopal who, like Catholics, don't read the Bible at all as far as I can see.]

Is that something that is not true?  It's news to me.

Like I said, both Jesus and the writers of the NT quote the OT constantly.

ps I'm still sayin' my prayer.  So get ready... :happygrin:

[Molly]

Jesus wansn't teaching anything new. He thaught OT things

well, he taught he was the fulfillment of OT prophecy, OT law.

That's an OT thing too. The Jews waited (and still do) for the Messiah that would change all things.

That said I should have written "Almost nothing new" because there are some new things.

Not hardly.  They don't read their own Bible.



The Suffering Servant: Isaiah 53

This amazing passage from the Hebrew Prophets was written over 700 years before the birth of Jesus. It is found in Jewish Bibles today, though it is left out of the weekly synagogue readings, as are many other texts of the Bible. When people read Isaiah 53 without knowing which part of the Bible it comes from, they often wrongly assume is from the New Testament. Did Isaiah foresee the sufferings of Jesus to pay for our sins? Though many modern rabbis --and some ancient rabbis-- say the sufferings described are those of the nation of Israel, most ancient rabbis said it refers to Messiah's sufferings. We have provided a link to some of the great rabbinic sources which interpreted the passage as referring to the Messiah, even though they did not believe in Jesus. We have also provided a link demonstrating why Isaiah 53 cannot refer to Israel and who it must necessarily refer to. You will also find some other interesting links below. The passage actually begins with the end of Isaiah chapter 52. Read it for yourself.



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52:13 Behold, my servant shall prosper,
he shall be exalted and lifted up,
and shall be very high.
52:14 As many were astonished at him ­­
his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance,
and his form beyond that of the sons of men ­­
52:15 so shall he sprinkle many nations;
kings shall shut their mouths because of him;
for that which has not been told them they shall see,
and that which they have not heard they shall understand.
53:1 Who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
53:2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
53:3 He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand;
53:11 he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.
53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
http://www.chaim.org/isaiah53.htm