Liar and murderer

[Molly]

a] Why was Adam created outside the garden an the put in it?
He was set apart by God.

b] Where did the wife of Cain come from?
Other humanoids?  How about Neanderthal.

c] Why did Cain need protection (mark on his head) when he was sent away/into the world?
He was a son of Adam.

d] The snake could be the first 'type' being defined. Animal like sheep, goat and eagle mean more than just being an animal. Just like the meanining of numbers. Jesus called people vipers. That was not about their form but their mind. Same for the garden snake 

He was a divine being,  serpentine in shape, 'the shining one.'
.
http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/nachashnotes.pdf


e] God warned Adam about death. So the concept must have been known.
Or God knew what would befall Adam.

f] Serpents never ate dust. Yaeh I know the link between man and dust... It's just another hint it's not very literal what happened in Eden.

See PDF file under d.

Who are Adam and Eve right now?
Jesus and the church.

[Molly]

WW I have brought this up before, "A few verses later God gave them a cover again in the form of animal skin.
Animal skins are sacrifices. Blood (=sacrifice) covers sins." WW
It does not say there was any letting of blood or any sacrifices.

That's true Micah.
But the Bible gives a few hints.
Sins can ONLY be covered by blood. They sinned. Blood=cover
To get a skin an animal must die. Ok I admit you can also take a skin of an animal that died of old age.
When Adam and Eve left the garden they just lived near it's gate. Remeber they (Abel) did farming.
The dwelt east of the garden. Dwelt means hang around. Not travel a 1000 miles.
Another word for dweling is Tabernacle.
Cain and Abel brought offering to God.
All that combined tells me that made sacrifices at the gate of the Garden. In the Temple sacrifices also where made at the gate.
For me all that combined at least gives a strong hint those skins where from sacrifices.

Adam had already made the sacrifice of his life, why kill an animal?  God doesn't need to kill an animal to make animal skins.  Maybe it was a disguise--I am sending you out as sheep amongst wolves.

Maybe our carnal nature is only skin deep.

[micah7:9]

That's true Micah.
But the Bible gives a few hints.
Sins can ONLY be covered by blood. They sinned. Blood=cover

There was no law for a blood sacrifice.

To get a skin an animal must die. Ok I admit you can also take a skin of an animal that died of old age.
When Adam and Eve left the garden they just lived near it's gate. Remeber they (Abel) did farming.
The dwelt east of the garden. Dwelt means hang around. Not travel a 1000 miles.
Another word for dweling is Tabernacle.
Cain and Abel brought offering to God.
All that combined tells me that made sacrifices at the gate of the Garden. In the Temple sacrifices also where made at the gate.
For me all that combined at least gives a strong hint those skins where from sacrifices.
Gen 4:3  And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4  And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

OFFERING: H4503  minchâh From an unused root meaning to apportion, that is, bestow; a donation; euphemistically tribute; specifically a sacrificial offering (usually bloodless and voluntary): - gift, oblation, (meat) offering, present, sacrifice.

FLOCK: H6629  tsô'n  tse'ôn From an unused root meaning to migrate; a collective name for a flock (of sheep or goats); also figuratively (of men): - (small) cattle, flock (+ -s), lamb (+ -s), sheep ([-cote, -fold, -shearer, -herds]).

FAT: H2459  cheleb  chêleb From an unused root meaning to be fat; fat, whether literally or figuratively; hence the richest or choice part: -  X best, fat (-ness), X finest, grease, marrow

Genesis 3:21  There is no mention of killing any animals. This is just a thought, perhaps "LORD God make coats of skins," maybe Lord God made our very skin.

[WhiteWings]

a] Why was Adam created outside the garden an the put in it?
He was set apart by God.

b] Where did the wife of Cain come from?
Other humanoids?  How about Neanderthal.

What's teh difference between Adam and those Neanderthals

c] Why did Cain need protection (mark on his head) when he was sent away/into the world?
He was a son of Adam.

No. It was a mark for protection.

e] God warned Adam about death. So the concept must have been known.
Or God knew what would befall Adam.

That's not my question. Adam knew what death was because otherwise he wouldn't have a clue what the warning was about.

[WhiteWings]

That's true Micah.
But the Bible gives a few hints.
Sins can ONLY be covered by blood. They sinned. Blood=cover

There was no law for a blood sacrifice.

Hebrews 9:22 - And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without the shedding of blood there is no atonement.
Leviticus 17:11 - This is because the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD" (Revelation 1:5).

1 Peter 1:18,19 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; BUT WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."
1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

etc etc

[Molly]

a] Why was Adam created outside the garden an the put in it?
He was set apart by God.

b] Where did the wife of Cain come from?
Other humanoids?  How about Neanderthal.

What's teh difference between Adam and those Neanderthals

There are differences.  Do you want me to list them?  But I read recently that Neanderthal DNA shows up in the human population.  Kind of surprised me.

c] Why did Cain need protection (mark on his head) when he was sent away/into the world?
He was a son of Adam.

No. It was a mark for protection.

Yes, protection --that's what I meant lol --because he was a son of Adam, God's covenant man.

e] God warned Adam about death. So the concept must have been known.
Or God knew what would befall Adam.

That's not my question. Adam knew what death was because otherwise he wouldn't have a clue what the warning was about.

I'm not sure what you are looking for here because it would only be speculation on our part.  What we do know is that he wasn't deceived by the lies of the nachach.

[WhiteWings]

For me all that combined at least gives a strong hint those skins where from sacrifices.

Adam had already made the sacrifice of his life, why kill an animal?

A sacrifice can never be yourself.
At best Adam could have been a sacrifice for Eve. Not for himself

God doesn't need to kill an animal to make animal skins.

No. But that doesn't prove anything. God can do many thing in a different way. But He only acts according to patterns.

[Molly]

For me all that combined at least gives a strong hint those skins where from sacrifices.

Adam had already made the sacrifice of his life, why kill an animal?

A sacrifice can never be yourself.
At best Adam could have been a sacrifice for Eve. Not for himself

God doesn't need to kill an animal to make animal skins.

No. But that doesn't prove anything. God can do many thing in a different way. But He only acts according to patterns.

Good points.  Although I know Adam sacrificed himself for Eve...He is a pattern of Jesus.

[WhiteWings]

b] Where did the wife of Cain come from?
Other humanoids?  How about Neanderthal.

What's the difference between Adam and those Neanderthals[/quote]
There are differences.  Do you want me to list them?[/quote]Yes. And I only accept an answer of one word  :winkgrin:

But I read recently that Neanderthal DNA shows up in the human population.  Kind of surprised me.

I think there is no such research.
The only thing a bit similar is mDNA research and that points to something else.

c] Why did Cain need protection (mark on his head) when he was sent away/into the world?
He was a son of Adam.

No. It was a mark for protection.

Yes, protection --that's what I meant lol --because he was a son of Adam, God's covenant man.

No because there were 1000s of other people. Not the standard church stuff about 2 people. (possibly not even in the garden)
If you view Neanderthals as men then Adam wasn't the first at all.

[WhiteWings]

For me all that combined at least gives a strong hint those skins where from sacrifices.

Adam had already made the sacrifice of his life, why kill an animal?

A sacrifice can never be yourself.
At best Adam could have been a sacrifice for Eve. Not for himself

God doesn't need to kill an animal to make animal skins.

No. But that doesn't prove anything. God can do many thing in a different way. But He only acts according to patterns.

Good points.  Although I know Adam sacrificed himself for Eve...He is a pattern of Jesus.

I can accept that. But if Jesus would have sinned just once He would have been a valid sacrifice for us. And He Himself would sitill be in His tomb.

[Molly]

This is just a thought, perhaps "LORD God make coats of skins," maybe Lord God made our very skin.

That's a good point, too.

[coats] "of skins"

H5785
עור
‛ôr
ore
From H5783; skin (as naked); by implication hide, leather: - hide, leather, skin.

[Molly]

"Comparisons with DNA from modern humans show that some Neanderthal DNA has survived to the present."

"Researchers compared the Neanderthal genome with the genomes of five living people: one San from southern Africa, one Yoruba from West Africa, one Papua New Guinean, one Han Chinese and one French person. Scientists discovered that 1% to 4% of the latter three DNA samples is shared with Neanderthals — proof that Neanderthals and early modern humans interbred. The absence of Neanderthal DNA in the genomes of the two present-day Africans indicates that interbreeding occurred after some root population of early modern humans left Africa but before the species evolved into distinct groups in Europe and Asia."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1987568,00.html#ixzz1VShCZiiH


I'm not saying you are wrong about other humans out there, but this is another possibility.  There was a reason why Cain was afraid.

I don't view Neanderthals as imagers of God men like homo sapiens sapiens [Adam]--but there you have it--there was some intermixing of the species.

[WhiteWings]

That should mean that none of the female branches was succesful. Otherwise it would contradict mDNA research.

Mitochondrial Eve
mtDNA has now been used to trace back through all of these natural mutations to the origins of all modern human existence to a woman known poetically as 'Mitochondrial Eve', who lived around 150,000 years ago.

'Mitochondrial Eve' is most recent common ancestor of all humans alive on Earth today with respect to our matrilineal descent. Note that this does not necessarily mean that she was the only woman alive at that time. Presumably there were other females alive at that time, but her lineage is the only female lineage to have survived through to the modern day. Since then, as people have migrated across and out of Africa (see Ancient Migrations), their mtDNA has changed slightly owing to very occasional mutations in the genetic structure, offering us the wealth of different mtDNA types now.

The concept of 'Mitochondrial Eve' is in some sense a purely mathematical fact. Consider the number of all women living on earth today, 'A'. Now consider the number of the mothers of all women living on earth today, 'B'. Obviously, B is either the same size or less than A. As you go back through the generations, B reduces, ultimately to one woman. That woman is popularly referred to as Mitochondrial Eve.

http://www.cambridgedna.com/genealogy-dna-genetic-genealogy.php

^ACVGen 3
20 And the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

[WhiteWings]

Something I just noticed and could be relevant to first human.

(http://www.cambridgedna.com/images/slide1.png)  (picture from the mDNA article)

L0 is the very first (sub)human. L0 branches out into L1. But L0 also migrates to Israel.
The arrows point to a cave 75 miles north of Eden)

L0 is the south-west corner of Lake Victoria. (headwater of the Nile)
L0 is at: 31.68 longitude, 3.168 latitude
Gematria of "Lord Jesus Christ" = 3168
:mblush:

[Molly]

Something I just noticed and could be relevant to first human.

(http://www.cambridgedna.com/images/slide1.png)(picture from the mDNA article)

L0 is the very first (sub)human. Then you see L0 branch of into L1. But L0 also migrates to Israel. (arrows point to 75 miles north of Eden)


L0 is the south-west corner of Lake Victoria. (headwater of the Nile)
L0 is at: 31.68 langitude, 3.168 latitude
Gematria of the Lord Jesus Christ = 3168
:mblush:

:mshock:

[Nathan]

That was good, Nathan.

What do you mean by this?

it's even what keeps us from free-falling in spiritual truths.

by 'free-falling' [into spiritual truths]?

It's the essence of what faith really is all about.  Believing in what can't be seen . . .it's a total release of what my logic and reasoning say is unimaginable.  Instead of avoiding the unimaginable, I do the opposite, I believe "that's" how the principles of the kingdom really are.  They are the opposite of what logic and reasoning project.  Understanding is directly linked to control.  When I "understand" the source of something, or the operations of something, or even the direction of something, I gain control over it.  But when I can't understand it, I have no say over it, I have no control . . .so from logic and reason, if it can't be controlled, it shouldn't be activated.  Why?  Because something or someone could be damaged by it . . .in other words . . .because of "fear".  and "that" as they say in the poker industry, is a "tell".  The fact that fear is what is motivating the whole thought process tells me that it's my carnality that's making the argument, not my spirit. 

Everything spiritually oriented speaks of total freedom, no strings attached, no limitations, total infinity. . .it's "free-falling" in spiritual truths.  Ezekiel touched on this with the progressive depths of the river he was called out into.  What was the last one?  Did it get up to his neck and then God backed off?  Or . . .did God continue to call him until his feet left the surface of the earth . . .the moment my feet can no longer touch the ground, my perception of where I am is greatly affected by that.  My reaction is, to try to get my feet back on land due to my fear of drowning.  I can't control my walk if my feet aren't on something.  God calls us "from" the deep.  Paul talks about coming into the depths of his love, the height, the width . . . it's infinity . .my mind can't relate to infinity.

When I get to the end of my mind, I know I'm getting close to where I need to be.

[WhiteWings]

What about this thought?

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
Millenia pass....
Gen 2:15 The LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it.

[Nathan]

Isn't it interesting how we can get all caught up in our discussion over a word or translation, yet does anyone ever question the idea that snakes can talk?

I answered that partly in a previous post but there is so much more people should ask themselfs.

a] Why was Adam created outside the garden an the put in it?
b] Where did the wife of Cain come from?
c] Why did Cain need protection (mark on his head) when he was sent away/into the world?
d] The snake could be the first 'type' being defined. Animal like sheep, goat and eagle mean more than just being an animal. Just like the meanining of numbers. Jesus called people vipers. That was not about their form but their mind. Same for the garden snake  :winkgrin:
e] God warned Adam about death. So the concept must have been known.
f] Serpents never ate dust. Yaeh I know the link between man and dust... It's just another hint it's not very literal what happened in Eden.
g] ....

Seriously, did you also notice that not only was the command given to Adam and not to Eve, but when she "did" eat it, nothing happened.  It wasn't until Adam ate it that all hell broke loose.

Who are Adam and Eve right now?

I can tell you only my perspective, but how much of what I share is being received and how much of it is being dissected by logic and reasoning?

a] Why was Adam created outside the garden an the put in it?
As I stated before . . .because the garden of Eden is a spiritual realm and Eden is the natural

b] Where did the wife of Cain come from?
To think it was from any other being is to say that Adam and Eve were not the origin, through which sin came into the world . . .so you're saying Cain slept with sinlessness . . .even though he's the one that murdered his own brother?  I don't think so.  I think our minds want to argue things that are just what they say they are.

c] Why did Cain need protection (mark on his head) when he was sent away/into the world?
Because he murdered a familiy member . . .they were all related to Abel . . .vengence for killing a family member, the mark of God could be anything . . God could have made the first black man for all we know.  Look, just because the Bible doesn't list every female child doesn't mean they didn't have a ton of other kids.  Can anyone name Abraham's other kids that he had AFTER Sarah died?  No?  Know why?  Because the Bible doesn't emphasize things that don't pertain to the seed of promise . . .  It's not that they don't exist, it's just that the emphasis of the message is in another direction.

d] The snake could be the first 'type' being defined. Animal like sheep, goat and eagle mean more than just being an animal. Just like the meanining of numbers. Jesus called people vipers. That was not about their form but their mind. Same for the garden snake  :winkgrin:

Which has been my point all along in that the serpent in Genesis and satan . . .and the devil . . .and the dragon in Revelation are ALL connected with the carnal mind IN all of us.

e] God warned Adam about death. So the concept must have been known.
Yup.

f] Serpents never ate dust. Yaeh I know the link between man and dust... It's just another hint it's not very literal what happened in Eden.

I'm glad you wrote "very literal" and not just "literal" because yes, it is a literal story but no, our emphasis shouldn't be on the story itself because every story is a sign pointing to something greater . . .build your house on that which is greater, the thing the sign is pointing to, don't build your house by using the signs themselves.

[Molly]

Gematria of LORD JESUS CHRIST

http://www.garone.net/tony/gematria.html

[Molly]

What about this thought?

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
Millenia pass....
Gen 2:15 The LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it.

I know what you're saying.  Adam is the first set apart, covenant man.

He is al Adam, God's Man or god Man.

I happen to think he is the first man to have modern language, given to him fully formed by God.  We have a large part of our brains that is devoted to language.  Gen 1 and Gen 2 are describing different events.  That's obvious.

Adam was created [not born] some 6000 years ago.  After that, civilization explodes out of nowhere in the region of Eden.

[WhiteWings]

I can tell you only my perspective, but how much of what I share is being received and how much of it is being dissected by logic and reasoning?

a] Why was Adam created outside the garden an the put in it?
As I stated before . . .because the garden of Eden is a spiritual realm and Eden is the natural

Isn't the natural a pattern of the spiritual? So doesn't that means the garden exist both literally and spiritually?

b] Where did the wife of Cain come from?
To think it was from any other being is to say that Adam and Eve were not the origin, through which sin came into the world . . .so you're saying Cain slept with sinlessness . . .even though he's the one that murdered his own brother?  I don't think so.  I think our minds want to argue things that are just what they say they are.

I don't undestand that reply...
Adam and Eve are were the parents of Cain so they are his origen. They sinned before the got Cain.

c] Why did Cain need protection (mark on his head) when he was sent away/into the world?
Because he murdered a familiy member . . .they were all related to Abel . . .vengence for killing a family member, the mark of God could be anything . .

I think that's not right.
After God told Cain to go away Cain got scared. If he was afraid of his family he would have been in more danger staying home then going away. Yet, he felt more secure at home.

Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.
When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."
Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear.
Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.".

f] Serpents never ate dust. Yaeh I know the link between man and dust... It's just another hint it's not very literal what happened in Eden.

I'm glad you wrote "very literal" and not just "literal" because yes, it is a literal story but no, our emphasis shouldn't be on the story itself because every story is a sign pointing to something greater . . .build your house on that which is greater, the thing the sign is pointing to, don't build your house by using the signs themselves.

We seem to nearly agree on this one.
Literal for me means 100% exactly as written. + the possibility of it being on or more patterns for spiritual and wordly things. Eden is a spiritual pattern but for example alse for the Temples.
Almost literal for me means the same as literal but some elements are figure of speech. It's raining very hard. I say it's raining cats and dogs. Is that a literal statement?
I think Revelation is te very best example of that. Revelation for example could picture Amerika as an eagle and Russia as a bear going to war. Real war. But the animals just represent the national symbol.
Or the dragon kills the bear. China invades Russia. That line of thinking.

And that's why you always see me messing around with numbers and stuff. I believe if the natural pattern is understood that can be used as a ladder to reach the spiritual pattern.  :2c:

[Molly]

For people wishing to confirm their Jewish priestly descent, the Y test is also relevant. The priestly caste of the Cohanim are thought to have the same Y chromosome as the biblical Moses, because Aaron, Moses' brother, founded this priesthood, whose duties traditionally pass from father to son. The Cohanim Y type identified in groundbreaking analysis by the team of Prof. David Goldstein and colleagues agrees with the biblical tradition, and a simple Y test using our database search can confirm whether a Cohen male indeed carries the Cohen Y type.

http://www.cambridgedna.com/genealogy-dna-genetic-genealogy.php

[Molly]

ww Where did you get the longitude and latitude of L0?

Did you work that out by hand?

[WhiteWings]

ww Where did you get the longitude and latitude of L0?

Did you work that out by hand?

Check this Google Maps link - Green arrow

I just noticed that L0 is near Lake Victoria. Last week I wrote about it HERE

[Molly]

ww Where did you get the longitude and latitude of L0?

Did you work that out by hand?

Check this Google Maps link - Green arrow

I just noticed that L0 is near Lake Victoria. Last week I wrote about it HERE

Is there any link online to the exact location of L0--rather than a general location?  Because this is a very specific number.