Who is Michael anyway?

[Beloved Servant]

The book of Enoch, again???

[Molly]

The book of Enoch, again???

I asked because now you have me curious and Sheila knows alot about the angels.  If you could just look aside while we talk... :happygrin:

here's the Hebrew word for angel.

"angel"

H4397
מלאך
mal'âk
mal-awk'
From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically of God, that is, an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

[sheila]

 Molly, I left out Zotiel

  actually the Melkezedek preisthood got it's name from Michael...Prince of Salem come out with bread and wine for Abraham

[Molly]

Molly, I left out Zotiel

  actually the Melkezedek preisthood got it's name from Michael...Prince of Salem come out with bread and wine for Abraham

So you think Michael is Jesus?

[Molly]

Here's an interesting article on Melchizedek--

The Mystery of Melchizedek Solved!
by Herbert W. Armstrong (1892-1986)
1972
FEW MYSTERIES of the Bible have attracted more interest than the mystery of the identity of Melchizedek. Who is he?

You will read in Hebrews 6:19-20 that Jesus Christ, after His resurrection, is High Priest "after the order of Melchizedek." The plainer English of the Moffatt translation words it: ". . with the rank of" that is, equal status with "Melchizedek."

Melchizedek Was God's Priest

First, notice from both Old and New Testaments that the man of mystery, Melchizedek, was a priest of the Most High God. Turn 'low to the account in Genesis 14. During the war between a number of ancient city-states in Canaan and Mesopotamia, Abraham's nephew Lot had been captured. He and his family and goods were carted off.

One of their number escaped and brought the news to Abraham, who armed 318 of his own servants and pursued the invaders to what was later named Dan and beyond. Abraham rescued Lot and his family and returned them safely to the Canaanite cities.

On Abraham's return a man of mystery bursts upon the scene. Abraham was ministered to by Melchizedek.

Here is the account:

"And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of God Most High. And he [Melchizedek] blessed him [Abraham] and said, 'Blessed be Abram by God Most High, maker of heaven and earth; and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!' And Abram gave him [Melchizedek] a tenth of everything" that is, a tithe of all, for a tithe means a tenth (Genesis 14:18-20, RSV).

Notice that Melchizedek was king of Salem. That is the city of Jerusalem. "Salem" comes from the Hebrew word meaning "peace." That would make Melchizedek the "King of Peace" (Hebrews 7:2). The Hebrew name Melchizedek itself means "King of Righteousness" (Hebrews 7:2). The same individual is mentioned in Psalm 110:4. Speaking prophetically of Christ, David stated: "The Eternal hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This verse is quoted again in Hebrews 5:6, 10.

Before we turn to Hebrews for the identification of Melchizedek, remember that this mystery figure is a mystery only to us. Abraham and the King of wicked Sodom knew exactly who he was. They must have seen him before. He could not have been a Canaanite, for they were steeped in pagan customs. And furthermore Canaan was a descendant of Ham, whereas God basically chose the descendants of Shem to accomplish His work.

Then who is the mystery man Melchizedek?

One other hint before we proceed. The land of Canaan from ancient time, before the days of Moses, was known among the Gentiles as "the divine land" the Holy land" the land of the place of worship!" Why? Was there someone in the Holy Land who was divine, holy, worthy of worship?

The Mystery Clears

Coming to Hebrews 7, we find Melchizedek identified:

"For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace" (Hebrews 7:1-2).

Since God names individuals what they are, that, then is what this man is.. "King of Righteousness."

Think of it! King of Righteousness.

Jesus Himself said: "There is none good but one, that is, God" (Matthew 19:17). Human self-righteousness is, before God, as filthy rags. None can be righteous but God—or one made righteous by God's power—Christ in a person! And certainly none but One of the Godhead the divine Kingdom of God would be King of Righteousness. Such an expression, applied to any but God, would be blasphemous. Why?

Righteousness is obedience to God's Law. Since God made all laws (James 4:12), He is Supreme Ruler or King. He determines what righteousness is. "All thy commandments are righteousness" (Psalm 119:172). When speaking of one of the points of that Law, Jesus placed Himself superior to it. He is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28). No man is Lord or King over God's Law. Only God could be! All human beings have sinned and broken that Law of righteousness (Romans 3:23).

To continue with Hebrews 7. Note, too, that this man was King of peace. "Salem" from which Jerusalem was named means "peace." And remember, Jesus is called the Prince of peace! No human being could be King of Peace. Men know not the way of peace. Read Romans 3:10 and 17: "There is none righteous, no, not one.... And the way of peace have they not known."

Observe further: Melchizedek was "without mother, without father, without descent," or as the Phillips translation renders it: "He had no father or mother and no family tree." He was not born as human beings are. He was without father and mother. This does not mean that Melchizedek's records of birth were lost. Without such records human priests could not serve (Ezra 2:62). But here Melchizedek had no genealogy. He must not have been an ordinary mortal. He had no descent or pedigree from another, but was self-existent. Notice Paul's own inspired interpretation of this fact: "Having neither beginning of days, nor end of life" (Hebrews 7:3). Therefore He has always existed from eternity! He was not even created, like angels. But He is now eternally self-existing. And that is true only of GOD deity, not humanity!

Not the Father Nor the Holy Spirit

Yet Melchizedek cannot be God the Father. He was the "priest of that Most High God." Scripture says no man has ever seen the Father (John 1:18, 5:37), but Abraham saw Melchizedek. He cannot be God the Father, but rather, "made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually" (Hebrews 7:3).

And there it is! In the days of Abraham, He was not the Son of God, for He had not yet been born of the virgin Mary but He was made like unto the Son of God in His manifestation to the ancients.

Notice again: Melchizedek, this scripture reveals, abides that is, remains permanently, continually, a priest. God the Father is not the Priest of God, but Christ the Son is! Yet, in the days when the Apostle Paul lived and wrote, shortly after Jesus ascended to heaven as High Priest, the scripture states that even then Melchizedek "abideth "—which means does now abide—"a priest continually." The Moffatt translation states it: "continues to be priest permanently" even while Jesus Christ is High Priest!

And notice that the order of Christ's Priesthood is named after Melchizedek. It is the High Priest's name that is placed upon an order just as Aaron's name was upon the Aaronic priesthood. Thus Melchizedek was then High Priest, in Paul's day, and even now, and He will rule forever! And at the same time Christ was, is today, and shall be forever High Priest!

Are there two High Priests'? No! Impossible! The conclusion is inescapable. Contrary to many cherished man-thought-out ideas, Melchizedek and Christ are one and the same! Some people have stumbled on the statement that Melchizedek has no "end of life." They contend that since Christ died, He had an end of life! If that be true then Christ is still dead! But Christ is not dead. He is alive. It was not possible for Christ to be held by death (Acts 2:24). Melchizedek would never have fulfilled His office of High Priest if He had not died for the sins of the people and risen again. It is the function of the High Priest to lead the way to salvation.

Indeed, Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our salvation (Hebrews 5:9; 12:2). He is "called of God an high priest after the order of Melchizedek" (Hebrews 5:10).

And no wonder. Melchizedek and Christ are one and the same Person!

© 1972 Worldwide Church of God

Offered as a free educational service by
Church of the Great God
PO Box 471846
Charlotte, NC  28247-1846




Read more: http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/745/Mystery-Melchizedek-Solved.htm#ixzz1V34yjSeb

[sheila]

 no,Michael is the High preist annointed for war...it is just that the 'Meldezedek" Preisthood symbolizes an eternal one...look up High Preist annointed for war-

  like David didn't build the House coz a man of war..but Soloman did. Also,Judah wasn't the oldest son,either. They all serve and do the 'works' of their Father.

.where-ever He places them Ther is a High preist annointed for war in the Heavens. Gabriel gives meanings of revelation/visions..You can see him

  working with Daniel a lot...and Joseph when he interpreted the dreams of the baker and cup-bearer. Gabriel is always there at an important birth

 

[redhotmagma]

Molly, I left out Zotiel

  actually the Melkezedek preisthood got it's name from Michael...Prince of Salem come out with bread and wine for Abraham

Pronunciation:   mal-kee-tseh'-dek
Origin:   from 04428 and 06664, Greek 3198 Melcisedek                  04428= melek=king      06664=zadok=righteousness
Reference:   TWOT - 1199i
PrtSpch:   noun proper masculine
In Hebrew:   qdu 2
In NET:   Melchizedek 2
In AV:   Melchizedek 2
Count:   2
Definition:   Melchizedek = "my king is Sedek"

1) king of Salem and priest of the Most High God to whom Abram paid
tithe after the battle he fought to free Lot; 'the order of
Melchizedek' the order of the priesthood to which Christ belongs
from 4428 and 6664; king of right; Malki-Tsedek, an early
king in Palestine:-Melchizedek.
see HEBREW for 04428
see HEBREW for 06664
Variations
in Bible:   Melchizedek (NET, KJV, NASB, NIV, NRSV, TEV)

Pronunciation:   me-kaw-ale'
Origin:   from 04310 and (the prefix derivative from) 03588 and 0410, Greek 3413 Micahl
Reference:   -
PrtSpch:   noun proper masculine
In Hebrew:   lakym 10, lakymw 3
In NET:   Michael 13
In AV:   Michael 13
Count:   13
Definition:   Michael = "who is like God"

I don't think Michael and Melchizedek are related etymologically

[sheila]

 you know how there is a High Preist..and the Levitical preisthood? and the Levitical rotates their service...so too, with the angels..they do whatever Father has

  directed...at the time He wants it done. In SOS there is a scripture... before I realized it,my desire set me among the royal chariots of my people, well

  the royal chariots of my people is Jesus speaking of heading out with Michael and the Heavenly hosts to deliver

[Molly]

Sheila, I just remembered there are elect angels, too.  What's that all about?  Is Michael an elect angel?

1 Timothy 5:21
I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE HIGH PRIEST ANOINTED FOR WAR
(Last update 6/23/00)

A subject not mentioned in most Bible studies, is that of the "second High Priest," who was called the (High) Priest Anointed for War. Scripture only gives a brief non-specific mention to this person and his role:

Deuteronomy 20:1-3: When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the LORD thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people, And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them.

This High Priest did not serve in the Tabernacle/Temple as did the High Priest we read much more about in the Tenakh. Rather, his assignment centered around the caring and preparedness of the men going to battle -- to assure they were prepared physically and spiritually, even sending home those he deemed unfit to fight.

The first Priest anointed for war that we find mention of, was Phineas, the grandson of Aaron:

Midrash Rabbah - Leviticus XX:2 - Elisheba the daughter of Amminadab did not enjoy happiness in the world. True, she witnessed five crowns [attained by her relatives] in one day: her brother-in-law was a king, her brother was a prince, her husband was High Priest, her two sons were both Deputy High Priests, Phinehas her grandson was a Priest anointed for war.

Talmud - Mas. Sotah 43a - Thus it states: And Moses sent them, a thousand of every tribe, to the war, them and Phinehas* — 'them' refers to the Sanhedrin; 'Phinehas' was the [priest] Anointed for Battle;

* Num. XXXI, 6.

Elsewhere in Midrash Rabbah (below) we find reference to the same person, this time called, "the War Messiah." What is interesting here is the footnote, which links the Priest Anointed for War to the coming Messiah. This is especially significant regarding Yeshua, as the first time He came as the Temple High Priest (in order to be the final Yom Kippur sacrifice for sin) whereas He will return the second time as the "War Messiah" to smite His enemies (i.e., Isaiah 59:17 where He wears the "garments of vengeance."):

Midrash Rabbah - The Song of Songs II:33 - MY BELOVED SPOKE AND SAID UNTO ME. He spoke through Elijah and said through the Messiah. What did he say to me? RISE UP, MY LOVE, MY FAIR ONE, AND COME AWAY. R. Azariah said: FOR LO, THE WINTER (HA-SETHAW) IS PAST: this refers to the kingdom of the Cutheans which seduces (mesithah) the world and leads it astray by its falsehoods, as we read, If thy brother, the son of thy mother, entice thee--yesitheka (Deut. XIII, 7). THE RAIN IS OVER AND GONE: this refers to the subjection of Israel. THE FLOWERS APPEAR ON THE EARTH: the conquerors have appeared on the earth. Who are they? R. Berekiah said in the name of R. Isaac: As it is written, And the Lord showed me four craftsmen (Zech. II, 3), namely, Elijah, the Messiah, Melchizedek, and the War Messiah.* THE TIME OF THE ZAMIR IS COME: the time has come for Israel to be delivered; the time has come for uncircumcision to be cut off; the time has come for the kingdom of the Cutheans to expire; the time has come for the kingdom of heaven to be revealed, as it says, And the Lord shall be king over all the earth (ib. XIV, 9). AND THE VOICE OF THE TURTLE IS HEARD IN OUR LAND: Who is this? This is the voice of the Messiah

* Lit.,the priest anointed for war', an expression originally applied to the priest who accompanied the troops. Cf. Suk. 52a, where instead of ' War Messiah ' we have ' Messiah son of Joseph'. The two are probably identical, Messiah the son of Joseph being regarded as the forerunner of the Messiah during the wars that will precede his advent.

The grouping of Elijah, the Messiah, Melchizedek, and the War Messiah together (in the above section), is also interesting as the last three are linked to Yeshua, who was and again will be preceded by Elijah the prophet.

There are distinctions made in Talmud between the two High Priests. As might be expected, the Temple High Priest is given a higher "rank" than his counterpart. However the following section of the Talmud, shows distinctions drawn between the Deputy Temple High Priest and the High Priest Anointed for War, with the former taking precendent regarding issues of defilement, but the latter's life being considered more important (if one had to choose between the two of them) as he has a responsibility to many people:

Talmud - Mas. Nazir 47b - The question was propounded: As between [the High Priest] anointed for a war, and the deputy [High Priest], which is of superior sanctity? Does the [High Priest] anointed for war take precedence, because he is qualified to go to war, or does the deputy take precedence, because he is qualified to perform the Temple service?* — Come and hear: For it has been taught: The only difference between a [High Priest] anointed for war and a deputy is that if they were both walking by the way and encountered a meth mizwah, the [High Priest] anointed for war is to defile himself, but not the deputy. But has it not been taught: A [High Priest] anointed for war takes precedence of a deputy? — Mar Zutra replied: As far as saving his life is concerned, the [High Priest] anointed for war has a superior claim for many [people] depend upon him, but as regards defilement, the deputy is of superior sanctity, as has been taught: R. Hanina b. Antigonus said that the reason the office of deputy to the High Priest was created, was that should any disqualification happen to him [the High Priest], he can enter and minister in his stead.

* But once a priest had been anointed for war, he could no longer take part in the Temple service.

http://www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/rev2h.htm

[Beloved Servant]

If you could just look aside while we talk...

That's impossible to do when innocently reading the posts.

Please give a visible warning at the beginning of the post so that I can quickly disregard it and not be forced to read it. A simple signal like "XXX" will suffice or anything you prefer.

I find the book of Enoch blasphemy.

[sheila]

 well it is the 'elect' angels that minister to the 'elect'   archangels..now these are the cheifs...and many angels serve under them..to minister..just

  as the apostle's appointed the seven. It is a heavenly preisthood..and actually Father is the Highest Preistn of all..all the archangels do HIS works

[Beloved Servant]

well it is the 'elect' angels that minister to the 'elect'   archangels..now these are the cheifs...and many angels serve under them..to minister..just

  as the apostle's appointed the seven. It is a heavenly preisthood..and actually Father is the Highest Preistn of all..all the archangels do HIS works

Hi Sheila,
Would you please provide Bible verses for this?

[Molly]

If you could just look aside while we talk...

That's impossible to do when innocently reading the posts.

Please give a visible warning at the beginning of the post so that I can quickly disregard it and not be forced to read it. A simple signal like "XXX" will suffice or anything you prefer.

I find the book of Enoch blasphemy.

Ok, will do.

Here's a paper by John Gill who is XXX Calvinist. :winkgrin:

Of The Confirmation Of The Elect Angels,

And The Fall Of The Non-Elect



http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Doctrinal_Divinity/Book_3/book3_05.htm


It's kind of fascinating to read--how he packs so much information into his essay--and the thoughts just flow out like what we would call today, stream of consciousness, by this man highly educated in another time and place.

John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a staunch Calvinistic soteriology. Born in Kettering, Northamptonshire, he attended Kettering Grammar School where he mastered the Latin classics and learned Greek by age 11. He continued self-study in everything from logic to Hebrew, his love for the latter remaining throughout his life.

[Beloved Servant]

Here's a paper by John Gill who is XXX Calvinist. :winkgrin:

Does he believe in the salvation of all men through our Lord Jesus Christ?

[Molly]

Here's a paper by John Gill who is XXX Calvinist. :winkgrin:

Does he believe in the salvation of all men through our Lord Jesus Christ?

I believe I said he was a Calvinist.   :happygrin:

But up to that point, his theology is very sound.

Let's face it, the Calvinists just stopped reading before the end of the story.

[Beloved Servant]

The word Calvanist means nothing to me.

And if he believes in eternal damnation of God's children then I have no use for him.

[Molly]

The word Calvanist means nothing to me.

And if he believes in eternal damnation of God's children then I have no use for him.

That's fine.  I think others here might enjoy it.  You have to kind of gulp it down.  Speed read it.

But, what we see is that there are elect and non elect angels just like there are elect and non elect humans.  Election is a fact, Calvinism or not, and it applies to the spiritual world as much as to the human world it seems.

Very interesting.

[Beloved Servant]

But, what we see is that there are elect and non elect angels just like there are elect and non elect humans.

Where in the Holy Bible does it state that there are elect and non elect angels?

[micah7:9]

But, what we see is that there are elect and non elect angels just like there are elect and non elect humans.

Where in the Holy Bible does it state that there are elect and non elect angels?

I think she means that if they are elect then they were non elect. Almost like angel means angel. I think.

[Molly]

But, what we see is that there are elect and non elect angels just like there are elect and non elect humans.

Where in the Holy Bible does it state that there are elect and non elect angels?

For starters:

1 Timothy 5:21
I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

"elect" [angels]

G1588
ἐκλεκτός
eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.


But, read the essay, just stay away from the last ten lines or so. :winkgrin:

[micah7:9]

Thats it.  I Tim 5:21 is the only place I can find that speaks of "elect angels,"(OT or NT) and why could not Paul be telling us as YLT reads

1Ti 5:21  I testify fully, before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the choice messengers, that these things thou mayest keep, without forejudging, doing nothing by partiality.

Why could he not be instructing the other Apsotles and disciples? Or for that matter you and I, we are elect, at least I pray that is so.
Why must we read angels?

[Beloved Servant]

I am conjuring, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the chosen messengers, that you should guard these things, apart from prejudice,  (CLV)
I testify fully, before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the choice messengers, that these things thou mayest keep, without forejudging, doing nothing by partiality. (YLT)

There are many more translations that do not use the word elect.




I read it as referring to the Divine Word of God gone forth in men bearing His Name. 

[Beloved Servant]

 :HeartThrob:  Again, we are of One Spirit, Micah.  :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

Many are called but few are chosen [eklektos].--Mat 22

 
New International Version (©1984)
I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

English Standard Version (©2001)
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.

International Standard Version (©2008)
With God as my witness, as well as the Messiah Jesus and the chosen angels, I solemnly call on you to carry out these instructions without prejudice, doing nothing on the basis of partiality.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I solemnly call on you in the sight of God, Christ Jesus, and the chosen angels to be impartial when you follow what I've told you. Never play favorites.

King James Bible
I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

American King James Version
I charge you before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that you observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

American Standard Version
I charge thee in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing by partiality.

Bible in Basic English
I give you orders before God and Christ Jesus and the angels of God's selection, to keep these orders without giving thought to one side more than another.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I charge thee before God, and Christ Jesus, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing by declining to either side.

Darby Bible Translation
I testify before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, that thou keep these things without prejudice, doing nothing by favour.

English Revised Version
I charge thee in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing by partiality.

Webster's Bible Translation
I charge thee before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Weymouth New Testament
I solemnly call upon you, in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels, to carry out these instructions of mine without prejudice, and to do nothing from partiality.

World English Bible
I command you in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the chosen angels,[ that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing by partiality.

[Beloved Servant]

World English Bible
I command you in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the chosen angels,[ that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing by partiality.

Last but not least.