Who is Michael anyway?

[Beloved Servant]

That was very good Beloved! I agree totally with you or who ever wrote that, The Bible would be so much more understood if the word messenger was used rather than angel.
When I think about it I believe the translators(humans) wanted to keep supersitious and pagan things alive. But thats just me.

Heretic !  :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Beloved Servant.  Obviously they are not men.  They might appear as men.  But, they are doing supernatural things that ordinary men cannot do.

But, what does this have to do with the archangel Michael?

Molly, I mean this with no disrespect, but I feel that you have your mind set on earthy understandings of mens doctrines. Yes messengers do things that mankind cannot do thats why God sends them. All things were created, but where do we read that "angels" were created as "beings" as you say? I maybe wrong and it wont be the first time.
Gen 2:1  And the heavens and the earth are completed, and all their host;

[jabcat]

They might appear as men.  But, they are doing supernatural things that ordinary men cannot do.

:thumbsup:  I believe some messengers are human, while some are supernatural, non-earthly beings. 

Molly, haven't you seen supernatural messengers/"angels"?  What did they look like?

[jabcat]

Sorry, I guess though related, this does sort of deviate from the OP just a little bit.   :Whistle:

[Molly]

How can you reconcile an angel being worshipped?


WHO IS GOD'S CHIEF MESSENGER?

There is more than one chief angel, also known as archangel.

[Molly]

They might appear as men.  But, they are doing supernatural things that ordinary men cannot do.

:thumbsup:  I believe some messengers are human, while some are supernatural, non-earthly beings. 

Molly, haven't you seen supernatural messengers/"angels"?  What did they look like?

Men. lol

[micah7:9]

How can you reconcile an angel being worshipped?


WHO IS GOD'S CHIEF MESSENGER?

There is more than one chief angel, also known as archangel.

What other "archangel" is there? From the Bible.

[Beloved Servant]

How can you reconcile an angel being worshipped?


WHO IS GOD'S CHIEF MESSENGER?

There is more than one chief angel, also known as archangel.

What are their names?

[Molly]

How can you reconcile an angel being worshipped?


WHO IS GOD'S CHIEF MESSENGER?

There is more than one chief angel, also known as archangel.

What are their names?

Our Bible only mentions two archangels, Michael and Gabriel.

But the book of Enoch mentions 7.

[micah7:9]

Where do you find Gabriel as an archangel?

[Beloved Servant]

There is not one scripture in the entire Bible wherein the mighty angel Gabriel is named an archangel.

Furthermore, there is no instance in scripture where the word archangel appears in its plural form "archangel(s)."

There is no plurality of archangels inferred anywhere in God's blessed Book. Our omniscient God has nowhere told us that there are more than one anchangel, or that there ever were two or three or more archangels. You will have to tear the Bible all to pieces if you teach that!

It is an extra-Biblical teaching.

God declares in the plainest of language that there is only ONE. Jude, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, penned these meaningful words, "Yet Michael THE ARCHANGEL, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, Jehovah rebuke thee" (Jude 9).

Michael is not spoken of very often in the scriptures, but when he is, it is most significant.
According to Jude there is only ONE archangel; he uses the definite article: "the" archangel; and "the" archangel is named "Michael." Only one other passage of scripture mentions the archangel: "For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven in a shout, in THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL..."

That is A-L-L the Bible has to say about archangels!
Only two verses in the whole Bible!

Incredible, isn't it, after all the fanciful tales and elaborate doctrinal theories we have been given!
Because men will not hear what is written, they misrepresent these and other plain statements of the Word of God.

It should be clear to any thinking mind that by the very nature of the case the existence of more than one archangel would be an utter impossibility.

The Greek word ARCHO (arch) is a political term which means "to be FIRST in political rank or power." F-I-R-S-T! 
How can more than one be FIRST? It is a contradiction of terms; it is a linguistical and grammatical absurdity.

It is like a nation having three kings, three presidents, or three prime ministers!

In Dan. 10:13 Michael's position is said to be "one of the chief princes," but as Dr. Young has pointed out in his rendering (Young's Literal Translation), the sentence should read, "FIRST of the chief heads."
There are other "principalities and powers," but He is "far above all" of them (Eph. 1:21).
Of Michael alone it is said, He is "The Angel" and "The Great Prince" and "The First" of the chief heads! (Dan. 12:1; 10:13)

[micah7:9]

Praise the Name of the Lord! Glory! Beloved that was outstanding!  :bigGrin: :happy3: :HeartThrob: :thumbsup:

[Beloved Servant]

We are of ONE spirit, Micah!  :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

Colossians 2:18-19
King James Version (KJV)


18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

[Beloved Servant]

Angels: no;

now notice the difference:

"T-H-E" archangel: a resounding yes.

[micah7:9]

Colossians 2:18-19
King James Version (KJV)


18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Amen! I agree. Only, if you can SEE that Michael is Jesus and Jesus is Lord God.
I believe you are stumbling over the doctrines of men and pagan teaching, the same kind of "stuff" that the people of Israel picked up in Egypt and were told not to.
Where is Jesus now....He's in the heavens and if that be true, and it is, then when He was here on earth He was the Chief Messenger. And if He was the First and Chief Messenger here then He is STILL the Chief Messenger now in the heavens.

[Molly]

Jesus never refers to himself as an angel or as 'the chief messenger' or as an archangel.

I am not stumbling over anything.  Hope it stays that way.

[micah7:9]

Jesus never refers to himself as an angel or as 'the chief messenger' or as an archangel.

I am not stumbling over anything.  Hope it stays that way.

He did not have to refer Himself, if He was not the chief messenger on earth, then who was? Please?

[Beloved Servant]

Jesus never refers to himself as an angel or as 'the chief messenger' or as an archangel.

Then Manoah said to the Angel of the LORD, "What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?"
And the Angel of the LORD said to him, "Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?"   Judges 13:17-18 KJV

He tells Manoah that His name is Wonderful.

In Isaiah 9:6 we read a prophecy of the birth of Jesus:
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 KJV

The Hebrew word for "wonderful" in Judges 13:18 is the very same Hebrew word for "Wonderful" in Isaiah 9:6.
The Strong index number is 6382 and it means incomprehensible, beyond our understanding, wonderful.

So The Angel of the LORD says that his name is wonderful, it is incomprehensible, beyond our understanding.
In Isaiah 9:6, we find that Jesus' name is also incomprehensible and beyond our understanding.

Jesus and the Angel of the Lord have the same Name.

[Beloved Servant]

To which of the angels did He say sit down at my right hand until I make all the enemies a footstool for your feet.

Matthew 22:44 answers us:

"'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet."'

[WhiteWings]

God declares in the plainest of language that there is only ONE. Jude, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, penned these meaningful words, "Yet Michael THE ARCHANGEL, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, Jehovah rebuke thee" (Jude 9).

According to Jude there is only ONE archangel; he uses the definite article: "the" archangel; and "the" archangel is named "Michael."

Rover the dog was barking.
Does this prove there is only one dog?

So imo "the" doesn't prove there is only one archangel. Neither does it prove there are more.

Only one other passage of scripture mentions the archangel: "For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven in a shout, in THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL..."

That is A-L-L the Bible has to say about archangels!
Only two verses in the whole Bible!

Incredible, isn't it, after all the fanciful tales and elaborate doctrinal theories we have been given!
Because men will not hear what is written, they misrepresent these and other plain statements of the Word of God.

It should be clear to any thinking mind that by the very nature of the case the existence of more than one archangel would be an utter impossibility.

The Greek word ARCHO (arch) is a political term which means "to be FIRST in political rank or power." F-I-R-S-T! 
How can more than one be FIRST? It is a contradiction of terms; it is a linguistical and grammatical absurdity.

It is like a nation having three kings, three presidents, or three prime ministers!

Agreed. But the Bible is mainly about Isreal. So what if Michael is the chief angel appointed to Israel?
Or the chief of a group of angels with a certain task?
A bit like a king may have a chief of gardeners, a chief of arms, a chief of butlers, etc

As  a thought, but not as a proof of anything.... God seems to like the number 7. So why not 7 archangels?
^ACVRevelation 8
2 And I saw the seven agents who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.


I think there is to little information for a firm conclusion.

[micah7:9]

But there are no other archangels, yes 7 is His number, but he only mentions one.

"A bit like a king may have a chief of gardeners, a chief of arms, a chief of butlers, etc"
But that aint even relevent. There is no "may have," there is only one archangel.

"Does this prove there is only one dog?" No, but hes the biggest and loudest.
:2c:

Goodnight.  :bigGrin:

[WhiteWings]

But there are no other archangels, yes 7 is His number, but he only mentions one.

"A bit like a king may have a chief of gardeners, a chief of arms, a chief of butlers, etc"
But that aint even relevent. There is no "may have," there is only one archangel.

That what we are discussing Micah.
I've yet to see proof there is just one or more of them.

"Does this prove there is only one dog?" No, but hes the biggest and loudest.
:2c:

My point was that "the" doesn't have to mean there are no other barking dogs.
Obama, the president, played golf. Does that mean there are no other presidents on earth?

Goodnight.  :bigGrin:

I just finished breakfast :winkgrin:

[WhiteWings]

Quoting several translations of Daniel 10:13
I marked a few different renderings in red.
The first question is "what is one"?
a] He is one of several princes?
b] He is number one, the leader, of the princes?

If the answer is 'a' then there are 2 possible conclusions:
1] There is more than 1 archangel and all are equal
2] There is more than 1 archangel and Michael is their leader.


If the answer is 'b' then there are 2 possible conclusions:
1] Only the leader is called Archangel.
2] Michael is the leader of several Archangels.  -> Like prince of princes, lord of lords, etc

All translations seem to agree that there are several leaders. But not who is the leader of them is far less clear. (Besides Father and Son of course)


13 But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians withstood me twenty-one days: and behold, Michael, one of the princes, came to help me; and I left him there with the chief of the kingdom of the Persians:
13 But, the ruler of the kingdom of Persia, withstood me twenty–one days, but lo! Michael, one of the chief rulers, came in to help me,––and, I, left him there, beside the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince @ of the kingdom @ of Persia @ withstood @ me one @ and twenty @ days @: but, lo, Michael @, one @ of the chief @ princes @, came @ to help @ me; and I remained @ there with @ the kings @ of Persia @.
13 `And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia;
13 But the ruler of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. And I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me: and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the angel of the kingdom of Persia put himself against me for twenty-one days; but Michael, one of the chief angels, came to my help; and when I came he was still there with the angel of the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the princes, came to help me; and I left him there with the prince of the kingdom of the Persians.
13 But the leader of the kingdom of the Persians resisted me for twenty-one days, and behold, Michael, one of the primary leaders, came to help me, and I remained there next to the king of the Persians.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians resisted me one and twenty days: and behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and I remained there by the king of the Persians.
13 and the governor of the sovereigndom of Persia stands against me twenty-one days: ​and behold, Michah El, one of the head governors, comes to help me; and I remain there beside the sovereigns of Persia.
13 But the prince governor of the kingdom sovereigndom of Persia withstood stood against me one and twenty days: but, lo behold , Michael Michah El , one of the chief princes head governors , came to help me; and I remained there with beside the kings sovereigns of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me: and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Paras withstood me twenty-one days; but, behold, Mikha'el, one of the chief princes, came to help me: and I remained there with the kings of Paras.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I was left over there beside the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days: and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia stood up against me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I obtained the victory there with the kings of Persia.
13 However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia was opposing me for twenty-one days. But Michael, one of the leading princes, came to help me, because I was left there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; but, behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was left there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; but, behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was left there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia stood up against me one and twenty days; but lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I was left there victorious with the kings of Persia.
13 »The prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me twenty-one days but lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 And the chief of the kingdom of Persia stood against me twenty and one days: and behold, Michael, one of the first chiefs, came, to help me; and I was left there near the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; but, behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me: and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.



I think this gives a fairly balanced view: http://www.pastorpauley.com/faq/archangels.pdf

:2c:

[Molly]

Exactly, ww.  He's one of many.