Who is Michael anyway?

[redhotmagma]

Ok so who are the messengers that have Christ in them?  Again I say He is the message we are the messengers.

[Beloved Servant]

"Ok so who are the messengers that have Christ in them?"

They are the ones like God.

[Molly]

Beloved Servant, you do understand that this is a teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses?

They believe that Jesus is the incarnation of the archangel Michael.  That he is not God.  They rewrite John 1 to say and the word was a god.--small 'g'.

All the angels of God worship Jesus when he is born.  You can't have it both ways.  Angels are not worshipped.

[micah7:9]

Beloved you dont stand a chance. They have the book of enoch as proof as well as Jewish scholars.

There is no way that they will SEE that the "chief" is First, and that Michael means "Who is like God," even tho Jesus Himself said he was EQUAL to God.
They will not see that an "angel" in both the OT "mal'âk" and NT "aggelos" are "messengers."

And when put together Who is like God is the Chief Messenger and that IF Jesus is not the FIRST messenger, then please show where there is ANOTHER FIRST MESSENGER WHO IS LIKE GOD.

Peace and Love Through the First Messenger.

Now you bring in the JW's as proof!

And what else would all the angels of God do but worship their Chief and Lead angel[Messenger]???????????

[Beloved Servant]

:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:  Micah  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:  Micah  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Backatcha! :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :happy3:

[redhotmagma]

Is Christ the message or the messenger?

and I have not brought up Enoch (no offense Molly).

I am asking questions, I'm sorry my EYES aren't OPENED like YOURS ARE MICAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btw adding peace and love to the end of your message is like when someone says "I don't want to say anything bad about them but..."  sorry not buying the peace and love in this post

[Beloved Servant]

Christ is the anointing.

[Molly]

Micah you gotta be kidding me.  When are we allowed to worship angels in the Bible?  Angels are ministers to those who will inherit salvation.  Angels are also created beings.  Only God is allowed to be worshipped.


I, John, am the one who heard and saw all these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me.

But he said, "No, don't worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship only God!"
--Rev 22

Mat 2

11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Heb 1:6
And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

[redhotmagma]

Christ is the anointing.

evasive maneuvers? :bigGrin:

Is the Word the message, or the messenger?

[Molly]

You really think God is going to let his holy angels worship another angel?



"For you shall not worship any other God, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." [Ex 3:14]

[micah7:9]

Micah you gotta be kidding me.  When are we allowed to worship angels in the Bible?  Angels are ministers to those who will inherit salvation.  Angels are also created beings.  Only God is allowed to be worshipped.


I, John, am the one who heard and saw all these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me.

But he said, "No, don't worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship only God!"
--Rev 22

Mat 2

11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Heb 1:6
And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Yep you have that right sister  " Only God is allowed to be worshipped."

[micah7:9]

Is Christ the message or the messenger?

and I have not brought up Enoch (no offense Molly).

I am asking questions, I'm sorry my EYES aren't OPENED like YOURS ARE MICAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btw adding peace and love to the end of your message is like when someone says "I don't want to say anything bad about them but..."  sorry not buying the peace and love in this post

You dont have to "buy" anything, if thats how you feel about my signature thats ok.
Peace and Love Through Jesus :happy3:

[Beloved Servant]

Christ is the anointing.

evasive maneuvers? :bigGrin:

Is the Word the message, or the messenger?

Both. 


"Evasive maneuvers?"
Never.
I actually find that condescending.

[micah7:9]

Christ is the anointing.

evasive maneuvers? :bigGrin:

Is the Word the message, or the messenger?

Both  Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

[Molly]

Well, Michael is not some pastor of whom we might say--he is an angel of God.

He is a supernatural being in heaven doing supernatural things and is called an archangel.  So who promoted him to God such that he can be worshipped?

[redhotmagma]

Micah I'm just saying I don't hear peace or love coming out of that post, but this isn't live speaking and much can be lost in written communication.

So....

Peace and Love through Jesus :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Well, Michael is not some pastor of whom we might say--he is an angel of God.

He is a supernatural being in heaven doing supernatural things and is called an archangel.  So who promoted him to God such that he can be worshipped?

Eph 4:3 being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of the peace;

Peace: G1515  eirēnē  (to join); peace (literally or figuratively); by implication prosperity: - one, peace, quietness, rest, + set at one again.

[redhotmagma]

Christ is the anointing.

evasive maneuvers? :bigGrin:

Is the Word the message, or the messenger?

Both. 


"Evasive maneuvers?"
Never.
I actually find that condescending.

I was joking thus the smily face, and also using evasive since you used it a couple posts back, a little word play with you.

[Beloved Servant]

And now we go to the Word to learn something wonderful and exceptional about these creatures who have been described and even pictured so fantastically.
And it is a fact completely missed by most Bible students and, I dare say, by ALL Bible scholars!


Abraham was once sitting, in the heat of the day, in his tent door. And he did not fall asleep and have a nightmare. But fully awake, in his right mind, he entertained some visitors. The Word says this: "And he lifted up his eyes, and looked, and lo, THREE MEN stood by him" (Gen. 18:2).

Now we are not studying the book, "Alice in Wonderland." We are not reading about mock turtles, nor March hares, nor hobgoblins, nor ghosts, nor bug-a-boos. We are studying the fully inspired Word of God. And surely none of us are so simple that we need to go to a museum to learn what kind of a creature a man is. All of us are dumb on some subject; I will admit that much. But surely we are not so dumb that when we see a man walking down the street we mistake him for a monkey, or a fairy!

God's Word says that three "MEN" came to Abraham as he sat in his tent door. And there is only one race of beings on earth that is called "men." If we have not enough intelligence to know what kind of beings they are, then we most certainly have no business running loose, but need to be in a padded room where we will be cared for. Abraham entertained these three men who visited him. He hurried in to Mrs. Abraham and got her on the job baking cakes, and had a servant kill a calf. "And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set the tree, and they did eat" (Gen. 18:18). Reading on, in Gen. 18:16 we find the following, "And the MEN rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom." In verse 22 we read this, "And the MEN turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord."

That same evening, two of these three men arrived in Sodom. Lot met them, took them in, and gave them their supper. The men of Sodom also saw them, following which there was an unfortunate scene at Lot's house, a result of which was that "the MEN put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut the door" (Gen. 19:10). In verse 12 we read, "And the MEN said to Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: for we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it." Lot had no success trying to persuade his family to leave Sodom. He himself lingered as long as possible. And then in verse 16 we read, "And while he lingered, the MEN laid hold upon his hand." They forced him to leave, together with his wife and two daughters. And these men were God's messengers, His angels, who both delivered Lot and destroyed Sodom.

Jacob was quite a character, a very human sort of person. And one day he had a harrowing experience. He must face his brother Esau, who he had tricked and supplanted. He was afraid of losing his head. Esau was coming toward him with four hundred men. So Jacob figured it all out how to appease his brother's wrath. First he sent drove after drove of livestock as a present to his brother, then he sent his own herds and servants and family, but he stayed behind. Then that night, as Jacob remained alone on the other side of the river no doubt shivering in his boots, we read this, "And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a MAN with him until the breaking of the day" (Gen. 32:24). Quite a wrestling match, that!

In Judges 13 we read of a man by the name of Manoah, and his wife. God sent one of His messengers to them. And in verse 6 we read, "Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, a MAN of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible. In verse 8 we read, "Then Manoah entreated the Lord, and said, O my Lord, let the MAN of God which Thou didst send come again unto us." Then in verse 10 we read, "Behold the MAN hath appeared unto me, that came unto me the other day. And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the MAN, and said unto him, Art thou the MAN that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am. Here this angel of God admitted of being a man. "Art thou THE MAN ... I AM."

Daniel also had some rather startling experiences with God's messengers during his sojourn on earth. And in Dan. 9:21 we read this, "Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even THE MAN GABRIEL, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me." No, it was not the fairy Gabriel, not a nymph, nor a sybil, nor an elf; but "THE MAN GABRIEL."

Oh, we have been told a lot of funny stories! But it is high time to awaken, time to begin to face facts! In Dan. 10:1-5 we find Daniel on a fast. And while on this three-weeks' fast, while beside the river Hiddekel, he met another angel or messenger of God. Here is how he described him:
"Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain MAN clothed in linen." In Daniel 10:21 Michael the archangel, or chief messenger, is called, "Michael your prince." I never heard of a prince among men being a funny sexless thing with wings! Did you? In the 12th chapter of Daniel we find some further experiences with God's angels; and in verses 6 and 7 they are called men. "The MAN clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river."

Turning now to the New Testament we find some further startling facts. Our Lord had arisen. And Mk. 16:5 tells us that, upon finding the stone rolled away from the tomb, the women entered. "And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young MAN sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment." Lk. 24:4 in recording the same event says, "Behold, two MEN stood by them in shining garments." Then our Lord ascended. As the disciples stood gazing into the sky, "Behold, two MEN stood by them in white apparel" (Acts 1:10).

Lastly in the book of Revelation we find the capstone as it were, two of the plainest of statements, which identify God's angels as men, two statements that no one but a blind man could miss or a nitwit misunderstand.

In Rev. 18:21 we find a mighty angel talking to John, and reading on concerning this same mighty angel in Rev. 19:10, we find he himself stating concerning his identity,
"Then I fell prostrate at his feet to worship, but he restrained me and said, Refrain! You must not do that! I am only another servant with you and your brethren who have accepted and hold the testimony borne by Jesus. Worship God!"
John's brethren were all men.
And further, in Rev. 21:9, one of the seven angels of Rev. 16:1 returns to John to show him some further truths. Then in Rev. 22:9 this same angel has this to say concerning himself. "I am thy fellowservant, and of THY BRETHREN THE PROPHETS."
The prophets were all men.
This angel was merely one of them who now was serving in a higher realm of spirit, but had appeared for a very special purpose while performing that higher service. An angel in scripture is never a woman - always a man.

And finally, of the angel that showed John the glory of the Holy City which came down from God out of heaven, it is said, "He (the angel) measured its wall also, one hundred and forty-four cubits by a MAN'S measure (of a cubit from his elbow to his third finger tip) which IS THE MEASURE OF THE ANGEL" (Rev. 21:17, Amplified).

Whenever we find the word "angel" in our Bibles, it is a mere evasion which should be translated as "messenger." God's messengers, His angels, may be either men in the flesh, or the spirits of departed saints, or any other order of creature from above or beneath, who bears a message from God.

[micah7:9]

Micah I'm just saying I don't hear peace or love coming out of that post, but this isn't live speaking and much can be lost in written communication.

So....

Peace and Love through Jesus :HeartThrob:

It was a peace and love post but I was trying to sarcastic  :sigh: I should not have added the messenger. Thank you for setting me straight.
Peace and Love Through Jesus :HeartThrob: :bigGrin:

[Molly]

Well, Michael is not some pastor of whom we might say--he is an angel of God.

He is a supernatural being in heaven doing supernatural things and is called an archangel.  So who promoted him to God such that he can be worshipped?

Eph 4:3 being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of the peace;

Peace: G1515  eirēnē  (to join); peace (literally or figuratively); by implication prosperity: - one, peace, quietness, rest, + set at one again.

Does that somehow answer my question?

How can you reconcile an angel being worshipped?

[Molly]

Beloved Servant.  Obviously they are not men.  They might appear as men.  But, they are doing supernatural things that ordinary men cannot do.

But, what does this have to do with the archangel Michael?

[micah7:9]

That was very good Beloved! I agree totally with you or who ever wrote that, The Bible would be so much more understood if the word messenger was used rather than angel.
When I think about it I believe the translators(humans) wanted to keep supersitious and pagan things alive. But thats just me.

[Beloved Servant]

How can you reconcile an angel being worshipped?


WHO IS GOD'S CHIEF MESSENGER?