Died In My Stead?

[micah7:9]

Lev 17:11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul it makes a propitiatory shelter.
propitiation : an atoning sacrifice

Lev 17:11  for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar, to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood which maketh atonement for the soul.

atonement: reconciliation
expiate: to extinguish the guilt incurred by

"Micah what does the atonement mean to you?"   He payed the price.

[redhotmagma]

How is He paid the price different from He died in my place?

[Molly]

How is He paid the price different from He died in my place?

It isn't.  The price is death.

[Beloved Servant]

It is.
We too must pick up our cross.

[thinktank]

2 Corinthians 5:18-20

King James Version (KJV)


18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

I saw this word stead here, might add understanding, any thoughts?

[Molly]

The only thing worse than saying Christ didn't pay the price for everyone is to say he didn't pay the price for anyone.

even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
--Mat 20:28

[Beloved Servant]

I never said He did not pay the price now did I Molly.

It just does not let anyone off the hook from following Him.

Here, I am speaking about the High Calling in Christ Jesus; not Christian Babylon.

[Molly]

I never said He did not pay the price now did I Molly.

It just does not let anyone off the hook from following Him.

Here, I am speaking about the High Calling in Christ Jesus; not Christian Babylon.

Because Jesus paid the price for me, I do not have to die.

Believe thou this?

[Beloved Servant]

Self must die, everyday.
I die daily on my cross, yet I live!
Believe thou that?

[Molly]

Self must die, everyday.
I die daily on my cross, yet I live!
Believe thou that?

It's a question of how one understands that.

I don't understand that as Molly is dying and disappearing, never to be seen again.  I understand that as Molly is becoming more and more what God intended her to be.  That is, more Christlike. 

That's life, not death.

[Beloved Servant]

It is "death" to Molly's self as she becomes the Will of God.

[Molly]

It is "death" to Molly's self as she becomes the Will of God.

Not in the sense that I lose every quality that makes me unique.

We are each one unique.  It is more in the sense that my behaviors, desires, and wishes become more aligned with God.

God is not making clones or drones, he is creating a family.

[Beloved Servant]

Exactly in His Image, as planned, we have the Mind of Christ.
Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

[Molly]

Exactly in His Image, as planned, we have the Mind of Christ.
Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

Yes, but this is life not death.

That's why he states the apparent contradiction--

Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it.

--Luke 17:33

[micah7:9]

I never said He did not pay the price now did I Molly.

It just does not let anyone off the hook from following Him.

Here, I am speaking about the High Calling in Christ Jesus; not Christian Babylon.

Because Jesus paid the price for me, I do not have to die.

Believe thou this?

(CLV) And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon. Are you believing this?
(YLT)  and every one who is living and believing in me shall not die--to the age;
(Rotherham) Joh 11:26 And, no one who liveth again and believeth on me, shall in anywise die, unto times age–abiding. Believest thou this?
(Emp. Diag) Joh 11:26 and all the living and believing into me, not not may die into the age. Believest thou this?

[Molly]

I never said He did not pay the price now did I Molly.

It just does not let anyone off the hook from following Him.

Here, I am speaking about the High Calling in Christ Jesus; not Christian Babylon.

Because Jesus paid the price for me, I do not have to die.

Believe thou this?

(CLV) And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon. Are you believing this?
(YLT)  and every one who is living and believing in me shall not die--to the age;
(Rotherham) Joh 11:26 And, no one who liveth again and believeth on me, shall in anywise die, unto times age–abiding. Believest thou this?
(Emp. Diag) Joh 11:26 and all the living and believing into me, not not may die into the age. Believest thou this?

which means what to you, Micah?

[Beloved Servant]

Amen.
Life abundantly.
And I pray this falls on fertile ground;
But unless a seed falls to the ground it abides alone.

[micah7:9]

Self must die, everyday.
I die daily on my cross, yet I live!
Believe thou that?

The "old man" "old self" is DEAD.

(Rotherham)
Rom 7:17 Now, however, no longer am, I, working it out, but the, sin, that dwelleth in me:
Rom 7:18 I know, in fact, that there dwelleth not in me, that is, in my flesh, anything good; for, the wishing, lieth near me, but, the working out of what is right, not!

(Emp.Diag.)
Rom 7:17 Now but no longer I work out it, but the dwelling in me sin.
Rom 7:18 I know for, that not dwells in me, this is in the flesh of me, a good thing; the for to will is present with me, the but to work out the excellent, not I find.

Romans 7:17

(ASV)  So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.

(CLV) Yet now it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin making its home in me."

(KJV)  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

(WNT)  and now it is no longer I that do these things, but the sin which has its home within me does them.

(YLT)  and now it is no longer I that work it, but the sin dwelling in me,

Romans 6:6
(WNT)  This we know--that our old self was nailed to the cross with Him, in order that our sinful nature might be deprived of its power, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin;

(YLT)  this knowing, that our old man was crucified with him , that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;

Eph.4:22
(WNT)  Do not speak falsehoods to one another, for you have stripped off the old self with its doings,

(YLT)  Lie not one to another, having put off the old man with his practices,

1Co 15:31
(Rotherham) Day by day, am I dying!––Yea! by your own boasting, brethren, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(Emp. Diag) Every day I die, by the your boasting, which I have in Anointed Jesus the Lord of us.

(Goodspeed)  By the very pride I take in you, brothers, through our union with Christ Jesus our Lord, I face death every day.

(Weymouth) I protest, brethren, as surely as I glory over you—which I may justly do in Christ Jesus our Lord—that I die day by day.

(Ernest Malan) Daily I face death—I swear it, Brothers, by the pride in you that I feel through my union with Christ Jesus, our Lord.

[Molly]

You didn't answer my question, Micah.

[micah7:9]

You didn't answer my question, Micah.

Ill get back to you Molly.

[Beloved Servant]

Self must die, everyday.
I die daily on my cross, yet I live!
Believe thou that?

The "old man" "old self" is DEAD.

(Rotherham)
Rom 7:17 Now, however, no longer am, I, working it out, but the, sin, that dwelleth in me:
Rom 7:18 I know, in fact, that there dwelleth not in me, that is, in my flesh, anything good; for, the wishing, lieth near me, but, the working out of what is right, not!

(Emp.Diag.)
Rom 7:17 Now but no longer I work out it, but the dwelling in me sin.
Rom 7:18 I know for, that not dwells in me, this is in the flesh of me, a good thing; the for to will is present with me, the but to work out the excellent, not I find.

Romans 7:17

(ASV)  So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.

(CLV) Yet now it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin making its home in me."

(KJV)  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

(WNT)  and now it is no longer I that do these things, but the sin which has its home within me does them.

(YLT)  and now it is no longer I that work it, but the sin dwelling in me,

Romans 6:6
(WNT)  This we know--that our old self was nailed to the cross with Him, in order that our sinful nature might be deprived of its power, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin;

(YLT)  this knowing, that our old man was crucified with him , that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;

Eph.4:22
(WNT)  Do not speak falsehoods to one another, for you have stripped off the old self with its doings,

(YLT)  Lie not one to another, having put off the old man with his practices,

1Co 15:31
(Rotherham) Day by day, am I dying!––Yea! by your own boasting, brethren, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(Emp. Diag) Every day I die, by the your boasting, which I have in Anointed Jesus the Lord of us.

(Goodspeed)  By the very pride I take in you, brothers, through our union with Christ Jesus our Lord, I face death every day.

(Weymouth) I protest, brethren, as surely as I glory over you—which I may justly do in Christ Jesus our Lord—that I die day by day.

(Ernest Malan) Daily I face death—I swear it, Brothers, by the pride in you that I feel through my union with Christ Jesus, our Lord.

Amen.
Notice the verb tenses used above.


I died; I continue to die; I am dieing; I am continuing to die; I will die; and I will continue to die!

[micah7:9]

1Co 15:31
(Rotherham) Day by day, am I dying!––Yea! by your own boasting, brethren, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(Emp. Diag) Every day I die, by the your boasting, which I have in Anointed Jesus the Lord of us.

(Goodspeed)  By the very pride I take in you, brothers, through our union with Christ Jesus our Lord, I face death every day.

(Weymouth) I protest, brethren, as surely as I glory over you—which I may justly do in Christ Jesus our Lord—that I die day by day.

(Ernest Malan) Daily I face death—I swear it, Brothers, by the pride in you that I feel through my union with Christ Jesus, our Lord.

Do you believe that dying is to self?  I believe Paul is talking about the fact that "he is dying the death of living in his mortal body."  If the the "old self or old man" is dead and we are new creatures, then of what self are we dying, if it is not I, BUT sin that dwells in me, it is no longer me but the flesh that does it. At least thats how I have been given to understand it. I spent many years with the saying one must die to self, but when He showed me that Im dead(old man) then I must walk as straight as I am able by His Grace, which is sufficient for me.  The old self/man is DEAD, he died when I was crucified with Christ. Peace

[micah7:9]

You didn't answer my question, Micah.

This how I believe the Lord gave me to understand it.

""Eonian life" is life for the eons or life for the ages. However long the eons or ages are, that how long eonian or age-abiding life is. Then what?

Here's why unlearned theologians say this is not possible, because after the ages or eons, we would all die. NOT TRUE!

Let me illustrate. Suppose your company is going to buy you and everyone in your company an all-expense paid trip to Europe for one month.  EVERYBODY gets that trip. However, because you are such a fabulous worker and such a asset to the company, your boss is going to send you on a trip to Europe for three whole weeks BEFORE everyone else goes on their trip. This is a SPECIAL, BONUS trip. Not many get to go on THIS particular bonus trip, only a few.

Now then, you get to go THREE WEEKS earlier than the rest. When they arrive, you have already been their enjoying yourself for THREE WEEKS. So when the others arrive to begin their vacation, does your vacation END? No. Only your "three week" vacation ends. But you CONTINUE to vacation in Europe just as long as the rest.Your hotel reservation is not cancelled after three weeks.

That is not a perfect illustration, but maybe you get the point. "Aionion" or "Age-lasting life" is a SPECIAL gift from God that only a relatively FEW ever receive. It is LIFE in God's Kingdom BEFORE the masses are brought into God's Kingdom. What allows those who are given "eonian life" to continue living even AFTER the eons are past, is not the promise from God of "eternal life" but rather "IMMORTALITY."

All of God's children will be given IMMORTALITY and INCORRUPTION, so that they will NEVER DIE. However, those who are given immortality before the rest, receive it ages or eons IN ADVANCE of the rest."  L. Ray Smith

[Molly]

You didn't answer my question, Micah.

This how I believe the Lord gave me to understand it.

""Eonian life" is life for the eons or life for the ages. However long the eons or ages are, that how long eonian or age-abiding life is. Then what?

Here's why unlearned theologians say this is not possible, because after the ages or eons, we would all die. NOT TRUE!

Let me illustrate. Suppose your company is going to buy you and everyone in your company an all-expense paid trip to Europe for one month.  EVERYBODY gets that trip. However, because you are such a fabulous worker and such a asset to the company, your boss is going to send you on a trip to Europe for three whole weeks BEFORE everyone else goes on their trip. This is a SPECIAL, BONUS trip. Not many get to go on THIS particular bonus trip, only a few.

Now then, you get to go THREE WEEKS earlier than the rest. When they arrive, you have already been their enjoying yourself for THREE WEEKS. So when the others arrive to begin their vacation, does your vacation END? No. Only your "three week" vacation ends. But you CONTINUE to vacation in Europe just as long as the rest.Your hotel reservation is not cancelled after three weeks.

That is not a perfect illustration, but maybe you get the point. "Aionion" or "Age-lasting life" is a SPECIAL gift from God that only a relatively FEW ever receive. It is LIFE in God's Kingdom BEFORE the masses are brought into God's Kingdom. What allows those who are given "eonian life" to continue living even AFTER the eons are past, is not the promise from God of "eternal life" but rather "IMMORTALITY."

All of God's children will be given IMMORTALITY and INCORRUPTION, so that they will NEVER DIE. However, those who are given immortality before the rest, receive it ages or eons IN ADVANCE of the rest."  L. Ray Smith

Exactly.  So he offers life to some before the rest but eventually offers it to all.  He is able to do this because it is his to give.  He bought us at a price.

Now he says to us, to you and me, if you believe in me, you will never die.  I believe in him, do you?  So why all this talk of death when he has promised us we will never die?

and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
--John 11:26

[micah7:9]

Rom 6:23  for the wages of the sin is death, and the gift of God is life age-during in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Heb 9:27  and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this--judgment,