Lowered?

[sheila]

 Hi Micah

   a spirit hath not flesh and blood.......the creature was subjected to vanity..not of it's own will[like the angels that forsook their proper dwelling places]

   but by the will of  He who subjected it[lowered it] into flesh and blood vessels[vanity/flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of heaven]

  ....in order to set the creation free into the glorious freedom of the SONS OF GOD.. the spiritual heavenly realm.

    and as far as our brother Paul goes..he himself told us that at present he was looking through the glass darkly....Paul being unaware of the revelation

  has only to do with timing,no failing on Paul's part  Father reveals things gradually...and the reveailing of the mysteries,and others are in our time and day

   
   IT IS A NEW CREATION...A NEW CREATURE.....a mere woman/soul shall  surround a man[spirit]

   

[micah7:9]

Hi Micah

   a spirit hath not flesh and blood.......the creature was subjected to vanity..not of it's own will[like the angels that forsook their proper dwelling places]

   but by the will of  He who subjected it[lowered it] into flesh and blood vessels[vanity/flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of heaven]

  ....in order to set the creation free into the glorious freedom of the SONS OF GOD.. the spiritual heavenly realm.

    and as far as our brother Paul goes..he himself told us that at present he was looking through the glass darkly....Paul being unaware of the revelation

  has only to do with timing,no failing on Paul's part  Father reveals things gradually...and the reveailing of the mysteries,and others are in our time and day

   
   IT IS A NEW CREATION...A NEW CREATURE.....a mere woman/soul shall  surround a man[spirit]

"[like the angels that forsook their proper dwelling places]" That is your thoughts from where?

I do not understand your responses Shelia. Your answers come, at least for me, as melodrama. Like you  piece things together to make it sound, well heavenly. I love Jesus, Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Jesus is my savior.

[sheila]

   because the man was created first[spirit] and then the woman[soul]    I speak of the mystery of Christ and the church

[micah7:9]

   because the man was created first[spirit] and then the woman[soul]    I speak of the mystery of Christ and the church

Alright you got me with that one,  " and then the woman[soul]"  just where is this that the woman is the soul or just soul. I have in times past  pointed out the that man became a living soul, and that man does not GET or HAVE a soul, man IS a soul. Now continue your speak. Thank you

[Beloved Servant]

Your answers come, at least for me, like a symphony.

[Beloved Servant]

"For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ" (II Cor. 11:2-3).


Eve in the garden of Eden is contrasted with two things: the bride of Christ and the mind.

[Beloved Servant]

Ray Prinzing has written:

"The 'spirit of man', leaving the eternal realms of HIS SPIRIT to become encased in a tabernacle of flesh became 'a living soul', literally A BREATHING ONE on this earth plane.
The MIND is the connecting link between the spirit within and the flesh realm without. 'They that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded (that is, minding of the flesh) is death; but to be spiritually minded (minding of the Spirit) is life and peace' (Rom. 8:5-6).

As one living and breathing on this earth plane, we will either mind the flesh, or the Spirit. When we take the word 'soul' over into the Greek of the New Testament, we find it expressed in the word PSUCHE, which literally bespeaks of the mind. One is not always conscious of their inner spirit, nor are we always conscious of our flesh body - for we live in the realm of THE MIND, and it is active twenty-four hours of the day, whether we wake or sleep.

The soul, mind realm, bespeaks of the mental power to reason, of those mental forces that urge us into action, of the exercise of the will. If this is directed towards the things of the flesh, it means death - for all this flesh realm shall pass away and come to nothing. If our mind is directed towards the things of the Spirit, it means life and peace, for in Him alone are the eternal realities."

[Molly]

Adam is a type of Christ, an image of the one to come.

If Adam were of a purely carnal nature, he would have thrown Eve under the bus, and asked God for a new wife.  It happens every day of the week.

He knew he would die; he was not deceived.  Like Christ, he died for his bride willingly.



Besides that, Adam was not deceived. It was the woman who was deceived and sinned.

--1 Tim 2:14

[micah7:9]

Your answers come, at least for me, like a symphony.

You sir are worth the chuckle. I sometimes understand you and at other times you are like Dr. Susse with out well just without.
"because the man was created first[spirit] and then the woman[soul]" and of course there is a place found in the Word?
"Because the man was created first[spirit] and then the woman[soul]" and of course there is  scripture and verse for this?

Beloved Servant you amaze me with your protection of what you believe, anything that may cause a chink  in how you believe, is an assullte on your belief.  I do not assullt you,. I just question what I once believed myself, and have found gaps in the teaching. Let me ask you, do you believe that J. Preston Eby has all the answers, that his is the last word of interpetation and that anyone else who may have a thought is a heritic? I love and trust J. Preston Eby, but I have found that Eby is not the last word and that just maybe, just maybe Eby's  got something wrong> What say you Beloved?

Now you have invoked my mentor, I love Ray Prinzing, his teachings have helped me,coming quite close the Saviour Himself.

""The 'spirit of man', leaving the eternal realms of HIS SPIRIT to become encased in a tabernacle of flesh became 'a living soul', literally A BREATHING ONE on this earth plane. " Now I love Ray Prinzing but where did this happen? 

[micah7:9]

Adam is a type of Christ, an image of the one to come.

If Adam were of a purely carnal nature, he would have thrown Eve under the bus, and asked God for a new wife.  It happens every day of the week.

He knew he would die; he was not deceived.  Like Christ, he died for his bride willingly.



Besides that, Adam was not deceived. It was the woman who was deceived and sinned.

--1 Tim 2:14

I dont know but Molly you seem to be a flasher, a flasher of scripture here and there.
"If Adam were of a purely carnal nature, he would have thrown Eve under the bus" Molly
Just what was adam if he was not purley of a carnal nature? I find sometimes the tales that are spinned are
very close to screen plays for a movie script.

[Molly]

God's "breathing upon" Adam was the Holy Spirit

What, in fact, was the "blowing upon", that we read in the New Testament? "Jesus blew upon them, and said to them: 'Receive the Holy Spirit'" (John 20:22).

When renovating mankind -which had lost the grace it had received through God's blowing upon it- the Lord restored it again, by blowing upon the persons/countenances of the disciples, by saying what? 'Receive ye Holy Spirit' " (St. Basil the Great).

Whatever the "blowing upon" was in the New Testament, it was exactly the same as the one in the Old Testament: It was the Grace and the Energy of the Holy Spirit.  Just as the apostles weren't earthen statues, but living and moving people, so was the person who was "blown upon" in the Old Testament.  This Grace of the Holy Spirit was that which was lost through man's disobedience, and was restored to the Apostles by our Lord.  The Lord did not give the Apostles a soul; they already had souls, just as Adam did. He gave them something else, which made their souls "living souls". Just as He did with Adam.

Let the dead bury their dead, Christ had said. (Matthew 8:22).  These "dead" were people with souls and movement, but who did not have the Holy Spirit, which invigorates (2 Corinthians 3:6).

By the Holy Spirit, every soul becomes alive». This Grace of the Holy Spirit is given to a whole person, body and soul, and it hallows and vivifies him.

He (=God) blew upon his (=Adam's) person/countenance ; meaning that a certain degree of His (God's) Grace was deposited in man, so that the 'likeness' (=man) could acknowledge its 'likeness' (=God). (Vasileios the Great).

Let's not forget the words also that God spoke to Adam:  "On the day that you eat of this (=the tree), you shall die".  But Adam lived on, for many more years after that! His "death" therefore was obviously a spiritual one.  Adam became a "dead soul", after losing the Holy Spirit that was given to him when God "blew upon" him the breath of life. Reversely, this "blowing" of the Holy Spirit was what had made him a living soul.

Tatianus writes:

"The one who was created in the image of God and was separated from that more powerful (Holy) Spirit, becomes a mortal." (Tatianus to Hellenes, 7)

Also according to Saint Irenaeus:

"Separation from God is death" (Saint Irenaeus, Remonstration E' XXVII)

and

"Therefore, they –whomsoever they may be- who do not have whatever saves and leads into life, shall be called 'flesh and blood', because they are the ones who do not have the Spirit of God in them.  Such people are referred to by the Lord as 'dead', as He had stated: "Let the dead bury their own dead", because they do not have the Spirit which vivifies man." (Saint Irenaeus, Remonstration E' XI, 1)

That which makes man entirely different to all other animals, is that he –unlike the animals- has the ability to receive the energy of the Holy SpiritThat which gives man this ability, however, is not his biological superiority, or the superiority of his mind. This ability that Man has to receive –if he so wishes- the energy of the Holy Spirit, is not given to him by anything natural;it is only because man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27); it is because he is a persona. (Genesis 2:7).
[/u]


http://www.orthodox-christianity.com/2011/04/gods-breathing-upon-adam-was-the-holy-spirit/

[micah7:9]

God's "breathing upon" Adam was the Holy Spirit

What, in fact, was the "blowing upon", that we read in the New Testament? "Jesus blew upon them, and said to them: 'Receive the Holy Spirit'" (John 20:22).

When renovating mankind -which had lost the grace it had received through God's blowing upon it- the Lord restored it again, by blowing upon the persons/countenances of the disciples, by saying what? 'Receive ye Holy Spirit' " (St. Basil the Great).

Whatever the "blowing upon" was in the New Testament, it was exactly the same as the one in the Old Testament: It was the Grace and the Energy of the Holy Spirit.  Just as the apostles weren't earthen statues, but living and moving people, so was the person who was "blown upon" in the Old Testament.  This Grace of the Holy Spirit was that which was lost through man's disobedience, and was restored to the Apostles by our Lord.  The Lord did not give the Apostles a soul; they already had souls, just as Adam did. He gave them something else, which made their souls "living souls". Just as He did with Adam.

Let the dead bury their dead, Christ had said. (Matthew 8:22).  These "dead" were people with souls and movement, but who did not have the Holy Spirit, which invigorates (2 Corinthians 3:6).

By the Holy Spirit, every soul becomes alive». This Grace of the Holy Spirit is given to a whole person, body and soul, and it hallows and vivifies him.

He (=God) blew upon his (=Adam's) person/countenance ; meaning that a certain degree of His (God's) Grace was deposited in man, so that the 'likeness' (=man) could acknowledge its 'likeness' (=God). (Vasileios the Great).

Let's not forget the words also that God spoke to Adam:  "On the day that you eat of this (=the tree), you shall die".  But Adam lived on, for many more years after that! His "death" therefore was obviously a spiritual one.  Adam became a "dead soul", after losing the Holy Spirit that was given to him when God "blew upon" him the breath of life. Reversely, this "blowing" of the Holy Spirit was what had made him a living soul.

Tatianus writes:

"The one who was created in the image of God and was separated from that more powerful (Holy) Spirit, becomes a mortal." (Tatianus to Hellenes, 7)

Also according to Saint Irenaeus:

"Separation from God is death" (Saint Irenaeus, Remonstration E' XXVII)

and

"Therefore, they –whomsoever they may be- who do not have whatever saves and leads into life, shall be called 'flesh and blood', because they are the ones who do not have the Spirit of God in them.  Such people are referred to by the Lord as 'dead', as He had stated: "Let the dead bury their own dead", because they do not have the Spirit which vivifies man." (Saint Irenaeus, Remonstration E' XI, 1)

That which makes man entirely different to all other animals, is that he –unlike the animals- has the ability to receive the energy of the Holy Spirit. That which gives man this ability, however, is not his biological superiority, or the superiority of his mind. This ability that Man has to receive –if he so wishes- the energy of the Holy Spirit, is not given to him by anything natural; it is only because man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27); it is because he is a persona. (Genesis 2:7).



http://www.orthodox-christianity.com/2011/04/gods-breathing-upon-adam-was-the-holy-spirit/

Do you have thoughts? I mean do you have the ability to say just what YOU have a desire to say? I have found that 100% of  religious and orthodox religion is a fabraction of man, and commentaries from the graduates of the seminaries, are talking but heads at best.

[Molly]

Do you have thoughts? I mean do you have the ability to say just what YOU have a desire to say? I have found that 100% of  religious and orthodox religion is a fabraction of man, and commentaries from the graduates of the seminaries, are talking but heads at best.

I have said it to you every way I can think of.  I thought you might have some respect for church fathers who arrived at the same conclusions, but I can see not.

I am telling you [some of] what the HS has shown me.  It's all I can do.  Man was created qualitatively different from the animals, from day one.

[WhiteWings]

Training wheels.

Watch out for tire tracks on your hands.

As I have stated many times before, should that be true then Paul was out of your circle of information.

It may be that many don't understand the information. Paul was a teacher. He said things most didn't understand. (not saying I am)

I have a great desire to find refuse in your ".your spirit goes . .where?  BACK to God WHO SENT IT.  Which indicates that it did exist "before" it entered into these bodies of flesh."  I like it , I embrace it, I have a great desire for it to be so, but what do I do with

I think we agree the only way something can return to somewhere is if that something was at that place before. That's also a clear verse. Even if it seems to contradict 1Co 15:45

1Co 15:45  so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit, Is Paul in error? Just where does this "adam/man was first... a "spirit" then "and the man becometh a living creature." I will bear with you. God is spirit, on this we will agree. But what if "that Spirit" had the inclination to make the "first man/adam" a living soul and had to grow into that man of spirit? Yes God is spirit, and being spirit He can do just about all he wants to do.
Paul writes, should I believe him? I wonder. 1Co 15:45  so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' i am inclined to believe Paul over all the insinuations otherwise. I Love Jesus...He Is Lord.

The Bible's main goal is God becoming all-in-all. Or perhaps it is all-in-all-again. If the spirit is that breath it could be considered as a fragment of God. If that's true the spirit never was a pre-exiting seperate man. So that man was never in heaven.
The only other option is that the spirit that returns was in heaven as a seperate 'person'.  <---EDIT  added the word "other"
Note that only the spirit returns. Not the body or the soul.

So, if I understand your questions correctly, your next question is how can Adam be teh first man if billions of them were in heaven before Gen 1:1
I think the answer to that isn't that hard. God created all sorts of things. Most of it was dead stuff. Like stars planets, rocks and sand. Then the Potter sat down and took lifeless sand and made clay figures that look like a whale, a bird, or a man. Just like human potters the Great Potter has a problem. When making stuff out of dead sand the result is a dead product. The result is a lifeles statue of a whale, bird or man.
God solved that by blowing life into those statues. The first human statue that got life blown into it was called Adam. Regardless from the fact if there are or are not billions of spirits in heaven at that point. Or even if Adam was the youngest of all those spirits; he was the first one put in a statue. A new form. The first fruit of statues so to speak. When Jesus arose from the dead He was called first fruits. He was the first one that got a perfected body. But that doesn't mean His spirit never was before. It was just put in a better designed statue.

BTW it could be 'we' completely misunderstand the word return. See this threadfor a similar misunderstanding.

:dontknow:

[micah7:9]

Im afraid that I cannot see it that way, as you say of the "church fathers." Paul was a "church father" as you put it and he saw it quite different as you can read in 1Cor.15:45.
God is spirit. And Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
Yet, if man was as spirit first, then of what use is 1Co 15:44 It is sown a soulish body; it is roused a spiritual body. ?
I just wonder.

[jabcat]

The Bible's main goal is God becoming all-in-all. Or perhaps it is all-in-all-again. If the spirit is that breath it could be considered as a fragment of God. If that's true the spirit never was a pre-exiting seperate man. So that man was never in heaven.
The only option is that the spirit that returns was in heaven as a seperate 'person'.
Note that only the spirit returns. Not the body or the soul.

So, if I understand your questions correctly, your next question is how can Adam be teh first man if billions of them were in heaven before Gen 1:1
I think the answer to that isn't that hard. God created all sorts of things. Most of it was dead stuff. Like stars planets, rocks and sand. Then the Potter sat down and took lifeless sand and made clay figures that look like a whale, a bird, or a man. Just like human potters the Great Potter has a problem. When making stuff out of dead sand the result is a dead product. The result is a lifeles statue of a whale, bird or man.
God solved that by blowing life into those statues. The first human statue that got life blown into it was called Adam. Regardless from the fact if there are or are not billions of spirits in heaven at that point. Or even if Adam was the youngest of all those spirits; he was the first one put in a statue. A new form. The first fruit of statues so to speak. When Jesus arose from the dead He was called first fruits. He was the first one that got a perfected body. But that doesn't mean His spirit never was before. It was just put in a better designed statue.

Beautiful post.   :dsunny:

[jabcat]

Few things to ponder;

one, I've seen the spirit referred to as "he" and the soul as "she".  I never was quite sure where this came from.  This verse in the Hebrew seems to state otherwise?  and·he [body] -is-returning the·earth

and·the·spirit she-is-returning [to God who gave it]


Then shall the dust return
to the earth as it was: and
the spirit shall return unto
God who gave it.

Another point;  I've been one to believe we pre-existed, IN SOME SPIRIT FORM.  Largely based on this verse and the word REturn.    It just hit me though reading it this time.  What if the spirit returns to God, not because we pre-existed, but because our spirit CAME FROM God in the first place - when He formed us.  He breathed into us (meaning "a part of Him, His substance was injected into us")?  Not that we  as a separate entity already existed, but that we return not because of our existence, but because of His - and He "shared" it with us at creation?  I don't know, just thinking and putting it out for thought.

[Ross]

Difference between the spirit[power] of life and the Holy Spirit[power] of the Father when we are resurrected or born again.

[micah7:9]

Few things to ponder;

one, I've seen the spirit referred to as "he" and the soul as "she".  I never was quite sure where this came from.  This verse in the Hebrew seems to state otherwise?  and·he [body] -is-returning the·earth

and·the·spirit she-is-returning [to God who gave it]


Then shall the dust return
to the earth as it was: and
the spirit shall return unto
God who gave it.

Another point;  I've been one to believe we pre-existed, IN SOME SPIRIT FORM.  Largely based on this verse and the word REturn.    It just hit me though reading it this time.  What if the spirit returns to God, not because we pre-existed, but because our spirit CAME FROM God in the first place - when He formed us.  He breathed into us (meaning "a part of Him, His substance was injected into us")?  Not that we  as a separate entity already existed, but that we return not because of our existence, but because of His - and He "shared" it with us at creation?  I don't know, just thinking and putting it out for thought.

Believe you are getting close my friend. I can understand that because I have a problem with the "RE's myself. :bigGrin:

[WhiteWings]

Another point;  I've been one to believe we pre-existed, IN SOME SPIRIT FORM.  Largely based on this verse and the word REturn.    It just hit me though reading it this time.  What if the spirit returns to God, not because we pre-existed, but because our spirit CAME FROM God in the first place - when He formed us.  He breathed into us (meaning "a part of Him, His substance was injected into us")?  Not that we  as a separate entity already existed, but that we return not because of our existence, but because of His - and He "shared" it with us at creation?  I don't know, just thinking and putting it out for thought.

That's what I meant when I wrote "fragment of God".
In that line of thinking our body is a fragment of earth (dust). Both return to the larger/previous body of things.

That said I don't believe it's the correct view.
The dust really returns to earth and become one with it again. But the part that returned to God doesn't because for example we see it gets judged and corrected. When God passes judgment He isn't talking to His left hand or any other fragment of His body.
If they truly are fragments of God they at best almost returned. The only real return is when they are not longer separate. Maybe the complete return is all-in-all. But that can't be it either because this whole stuff isn't about God teaching Himself a lesson.
Or first teaching those fragments and then absorbing them again; making the teaching useless.

Weighting all evidence for me the scales tip to pre-existence as autonomous entities.

[jabcat]

But what if God used Himself (of course He did :) to truly create us at that moment, rather than take us from one place (pre-existence) to another (here) - from one "form" to another?

Whether we pre-existed, or rather "came into being" at that moment, we still would have come from God (either earlier, or at the moment of creation), so to Him would return.  And either way (pre or not) couldn't we still have distinct identity now, i.e., not just totally be "a piece of God"?   It does get rather confusing.  I probably can't even really make it clear  :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

As all things come/originate from God at some point those pre-exitisting creatures where part of Him.
I wrote this before but got no response. Lowered can mean many things. Loss of status. Or falling down from some higher place. But it also can be about frequency. Card often uses speeded-up as synonym for vivified.
Lowed can also mean slowed down. So we have slowing down at creation and speeding up at our return. Get your physics book and look up what the real difference is between ice, water and steam.
It's exactly the same stuff but compared to steam the water and ice molecules move at a lower speed. They bounce around with a lower frequency. And.... at the right frequency there is a possibility to pass through walls (in theory)

Meaning fallen angels could also be slowed down angels. I think.... :dontknow:

[Molly]

Im afraid that I cannot see it that way, as you say of the "church fathers." Paul was a "church father" as you put it and he saw it quite different as you can read in 1Cor.15:45.
God is spirit. And Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
Yet, if man was as spirit first, then of what use is 1Co 15:44 It is sown a soulish body; it is roused a spiritual body. ?
I just wonder.

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

sown and raised, sown and raised

What is this?  It's a farming metaphor.

A seed is sown, a plant is raised from it.

The seed contains the DNA of the plant it came from such that it will produce a plant like the one it came from.

How then could a natural seed produce a spiritual body?

Ans.  It isn't a natural seed.  It's a spiritual seed.

What plant does the seed come from?  God.

It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:

it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:


What are we talking about here?  The resurrection of Man from the dead.

It [the seed] is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

thy seed... is Christ.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEZwHfsHVjk

[sheila]

.   ok Micah, I will try again

     2 Cor 12   Paul's vision and his thorn

      I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord....I KNOW a man in Christ..who was caught up to the third heaven.

     Whether it was in the body or out of the body,I DO NOT KNOW,but GOD KNOWS....He HEARD INEXPRESSIBLE THINGS...

    THINGS THAT MAN IS NOT PERMITTED TO TELL[flesh and blood did not reveal this,but the Father in heaven]

     To keep me from becoming conceited BECAUSE OF THESE SURPASSINGLY GREAT REVELATIONS....there was given me

   a thorn in my flesh....a messenger of satan to torment me.......three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me...


     BUT HE SAID TO ME,'MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR YOU,  FOR  MY POWER[spirit] IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS[flesh and blood]


     THEREFORE I WILL BOAST ALL THE MORE GLADLY ABOUT MY WEAKNESSES,SO THAT CHRIST'S POWER[spirit] MAY REST ON ME


    now, we know that no flesh shall boast[except of it's weakness]    and I do nto want you to think that wein Adam are immodestly boasting when saying we existed

  in Him before in spirit]   for it[spirit seed] is sown in weakness[flesh and blood formed by God.]..and raised in power[to sit in heavenly places]

   learning obediance through suffering makes perfect...and the weakness of the flesh perfects the power of the spirit.

    So please understand,Micah...when we speak of the spirit seed sown in Adam..we are boasting of the spirit of God..not the clay vessel of Adam....

   we,too,boast of the weakness of Adam's flesh.  But what we have been speaking of is the spirit that is sown in Adam

     Now, due to the above scriptures,I beleive Paul knew of this revelation..but due to it not being time to be revealed yet..was unlawful

  for him to declare it..and instead He spoke of the weakness of the vessel of Adam...but the power of the spirit/grace given us....and not so much of

  the freedom and glorious liberty of the sons of God..of which the whole creation has been groaning and seeking.


   Now,so Paul would not become conceited because of the revelation of the sons of God..he was given a thorn[messenger of satan] in the flesh...

    this is nothing more than sin's law in our flesh/the body of death we dwell in. weakness..til we are clothed from on high[glorious spiritual body]POWER

   after examining the above words of Paul..I am convinced he knew,but was restrained from revealing at that time

[Beloved Servant]

Your answers come, at least for me, like a symphony.

You sir are worth the chuckle. I sometimes understand you and at other times you are like Dr. Susse with out well just without.
"because the man was created first[spirit] and then the woman[soul]" and of course there is a place found in the Word?
"Because the man was created first[spirit] and then the woman[soul]" and of course there is  scripture and verse for this?

Beloved Servant you amaze me with your protection of what you believe, anything that may cause a chink  in how you believe, is an assullte on your belief.  I do not assullt you,. I just question what I once believed myself, and have found gaps in the teaching. Let me ask you, do you believe that J. Preston Eby has all the answers, that his is the last word of interpetation and that anyone else who may have a thought is a heritic? I love and trust J. Preston Eby, but I have found that Eby is not the last word and that just maybe, just maybe Eby's  got something wrong> What say you Beloved?

Now you have invoked my mentor, I love Ray Prinzing, his teachings have helped me,coming quite close the Saviour Himself.

""The 'spirit of man', leaving the eternal realms of HIS SPIRIT to become encased in a tabernacle of flesh became 'a living soul', literally A BREATHING ONE on this earth plane. " Now I love Ray Prinzing but where did this happen?

"This" happened in the mind of God.
As we put on the Mind of Christ spiritual realities knit together.
As we put on the Mind of Christ spiritual realities baffle the imagination.


You have wrongly spelled Dr. Seuss who uses symbolism and anagrams, relying both on the appearance of the text and its sound, to carry a range of meanings that all serve to amplify the theme of the work. This is generally true of Green Eggs and Ham and many other Seuss works, but applied notably in The Lorax.


Hmmm, just like the Bible, I'd say.