Lowered?

[Nathan]

I think he was also speaking literally to those who were literally there . . ."he" was the kingdom that was in the midst of them . .again, you have the three dimensions coming into play here . . .the natural . .being that "he" literally was in the midst of "them" which is first dimension . .second is . .he is in the midst of us corporately as Molly added . . .and third dimension is the most personal . . ."in me" his kingdom is in the midst of me.

[sheila]

YOU ARE A GARDEN LOCKED UP,MY SISTER,MY BRIDE

  A SEALED FOUNTAIN,A SPRING ENCLOSED....


       I have come into my garden,my sister,my bride

[Molly]

YOU ARE A GARDEN LOCKED UP,MY SISTER,MY BRIDE

  A SEALED FOUNTAIN,A SPRING ENCLOSED....


       I have come into my garden,my sister,my bride

:HeartThrob:


Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

[micah7:9]

Did God put carnal flesh on a perfected body?

I think Satan caused it to happen, but that's just me.

The man had flesh before he ate from the tree, but he was not ashamed.  Is that because there was nothing to be ashamed of?  because his nakedness was covered/clothed--as we are talking about on the other thread.

Let's for now ignore who caused it.
God gave them animal skins. Agreed?
Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?

"God gave them animal skins." I do not agree.
Gen 3:21  And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them. Nothing about animal skins.

You are right. It doesn't read animal skin.

עור
‛ôr
BDB Definition:
1) skin, hide
1a) skin (of men)
1b) hide (of animals)

"Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?" No.

So if they didn't get animal skin the only othet possibility is they got human skin.
Humans wearing human skin over their human skin? Sounds like a bunch of canibals.
Seems an odd interpretation  :dontknow:

Who says they had skin in the first place?  They were "IN THE GARDEN" . . .the garden of Eden is separate from Eden.  God didn't make Adam out of the earth in the garden . . .God created Adam out of the dirt on the earth "and placed him" in the garden . . .Adam "couldn't" walk from the earth to the garden . . .the earth and the garden are two different realms . . .the earth is "this" realm, the garden is the "spriit" realm.  God created Adam out of the "earth" (natural realm) and "placed" him in the garden (spiritual).  Our minds have conjured up images that our bodies require skin . . .but that doesn't mean it's true.  I think their bodies had perhaps skeletal qualities, and some form of outer covering to make up the body, something that God had to open in order to take a rib out . . .but the skin we have now?  Not necessarily.  The skin is a protective covering to keep us from disease and everyday wear . . .there's no need for a protective covering in the spirit realm.   

Nathan I believe it is important that we note that [The Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground] He didnt created him He formed him.

[WhiteWings]

Eden was the Holies or even the Holies of Holies of the Temple

I would suggest where the trees were is the Holy of Holies.

I thought about that too.
I also had a thought the tree of life is the candle stick.
Also: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/experiencing_tabernacle_4983.msg98042.html#msg98042

..the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
--Gen 2

in the midst=the center

Center/Midst
Garden
Outside the Garden

If as Molly says he was born of "spirit" isnt that what adam would bring forth spirit?

He didn't procreate until he was lowered into human [carnal] flesh--outside of the garden.

Was his garment changed from linnen to wool (in a symbolical sense)?

[WhiteWings]

Did God put carnal flesh on a perfected body?

I think Satan caused it to happen, but that's just me.

The man had flesh before he ate from the tree, but he was not ashamed.  Is that because there was nothing to be ashamed of?  because his nakedness was covered/clothed--as we are talking about on the other thread.

Let's for now ignore who caused it.
God gave them animal skins. Agreed?
Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?

"God gave them animal skins." I do not agree.
Gen 3:21  And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them. Nothing about animal skins.

You are right. It doesn't read animal skin.

עור
‛ôr
BDB Definition:
1) skin, hide
1a) skin (of men)
1b) hide (of animals)

"Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?" No.

So if they didn't get animal skin the only othet possibility is they got human skin.
Humans wearing human skin over their human skin? Sounds like a bunch of canibals.
Seems an odd interpretation  :dontknow:

Who says they had skin in the first place?

I implied such a thing in a earlier message. It's not Micah's view (as I understand it) so I just avoided it a bit while chatting with Micah...

They were "IN THE GARDEN" . . .the garden of Eden is separate from Eden.  God didn't make Adam out of the earth in the garden . . .God created Adam out of the dirt on the earth "and placed him" in the garden . . .Adam "couldn't" walk from the earth to the garden . . .the earth and the garden are two different realms . . .the earth is "this" realm, the garden is the "spriit" realm.  God created Adam out of the "earth" (natural realm) and "placed" him in the garden (spiritual).  Our minds have conjured up images that our bodies require skin . . .but that doesn't mean it's true.  I think their bodies had perhaps skeletal qualities, and some form of outer covering to make up the body, something that God had to open in order to take a rib out . . .but the skin we have now?  Not necessarily.  The skin is a protective covering to keep us from disease and everyday wear . . .there's no need for a protective covering in the spirit realm. 

Not arguing with that but resurrected Jesus seem to had skin and bones. Ok it wasn't a requirement for His surviaval I guess but still He made soem effort to prove it was a solid body.

[micah7:9]

Just exactly is wrong with the skin we have today verses the coats of skins given mankind in Genesis?

[Molly]

Eden was the Holies or even the Holies of Holies of the Temple

I would suggest where the trees were is the Holy of Holies.

I thought about that too.
I also had a thought the tree of life is the candle stick.
Also: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/experiencing_tabernacle_4983.msg98042.html#msg98042

..the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
--Gen 2

in the midst=the center

Center/Midst
Garden
Outside the Garden

If as Molly says he was born of "spirit" isnt that what adam would bring forth spirit?

He didn't procreate until he was lowered into human [carnal] flesh--outside of the garden.

Was his garment changed from linnen to wool (in a symbolical sense)?

Symbolically, yes, changed from linen to wool, that makes sense.  The high priest [which Adam was] cannot wear linen in the outer court.  He is not supposed to wear wool inside because he is not supposed to sweat--sweat implies work, and in Christ we are at rest, no work.  And, the wool would be in the outer court where the sacrifice happens, the sweat of his brow to live, the lamb slain from the casting down of the kosmos.

[WhiteWings]

beings that we're stretching our "selves" out here so the spirit can reveal His nature and patterns . . .I'm gonna push the envelop here and say I do agree with WW's observation that the Garden could very well be depicting the Holy of Holies because of several componants.  One, It's always in "threes".  Outer court (body) inner court or holy place (soul) and holy of holies (spirit) and in Genesis, we have the earth (outer court) Eden (holy place) and the garden of Eden (holy of holies).

There are alway 4... There is something outside the outer court too. The land of Nod???? was the outer court. Nothe teh whole planet.
:2c:

There is ONE nameless river that flows "out" of the garden "into" Eden.  But at the edge, it separates into FOUR rivers.  The number "one" speaks of DIVINE (spiritual) SOVERIEGNTY.  Four is the number for flesh, earth . . .it consists of four major elements, fire, wind, water and land.  There are four major directions, north, south, east and west.  There are four major seasons . . .

IIRC correctly one of those rivers feeds Gihon (sp?) spring with was the spring used for all water used in Temple. It directly flowed into the Holies of Holies and from there poured out in the Laver.

[WhiteWings]

Just exactly is wrong with the skin we have today verses the coats of skins given mankind in Genesis?

In case you are asking me...
Surely God could just have given they coats to stay dry and warm in the winter. That would be simple.
But if I learned one thing in the time I spend on this forum it is that God always has at least one 'hidden agenda'.
So unless someone gives me at least two explanations of those skins I'm not statisfied....
:bgdance:

[Beloved Servant]

Training wheels.

[micah7:9]

Just exactly is wrong with the skin we have today verses the coats of skins given mankind in Genesis?

In case you are asking me...
Surely God could just have given they coats to stay dry and warm in the winter. That would be simple.
But if I learned one thing in the time I spend on this forum it is that God always has at least one 'hidden agenda'.
So unless someone gives me at least two explanations of those skins I'm not statisfied....
:bgdance:

Luk 12:6  `Are not five sparrows sold for two assars? and one of them is not forgotten before God,
Luk 12:7  but even the hairs of your head have been all numbered; therefore fear ye not, than many sparrows ye are of more value.

[sheila]

Reeds

    Isaaih 35;7   the burning sand will become a pool, the thirsty ground bubbling springs....

     in the haunts where jackals once lay[they slaughter lambs]...grass and reeds and papyrus will grow[linen garment]

[sheila]

     the hair of His head is white like wool.......men in weak flesh are as sheep skinned and thrown about...care to number Israel's sheep? or the hair of HIS head

[Molly]

Reeds

    Isaaih 35;7   the burning sand will become a pool, the thirsty ground bubbling springs....

     in the haunts where jackals once lay[they slaughter lambs]...grass and reeds and papyrus will grow[linen garment]

And a highway will be there; its name will be, The Holy Way; the unclean and the sinner may not go over it, and those who go on it will not be turned out of the way by the foolish.

Isa 35:8

[Molly]

     the hair of His head is white like wool.......men in weak flesh are as sheep skinned and thrown about...care to number Israel's sheep? or the hair of HIS head

Indeed, we are being killed all day long because of you. We are thought of as sheep to be slaughtered.
--Psa 44:22

[micah7:9]

Me, and that's probably only me, got lost or waylayed at post #264 but I am sure it is all my misunderstanding. As far as I have knowledge of, we are all learning and our understanding Im sure has its blurs.The Christ Jesus was born, Jesus died on the cross shedding His blood, He did not die in my stead, He died FOR for the whole entire world, Jesus The Christ rose from the dead, and a partial part of adam/man/mankind believed and we are part of that hearing. Aint none of us got it right, things have been revealed, and some understand while others still wonder.

I do not believe man was "lowered  from a "spirit" state," to be formed from the dust of the ground, I believe man was formed from the dust of the ground, and man became a breathing creature/ living creature/ a living soul.

[eaglesway]

I do not believe man was "lowered  from a "spirit" state," to be formed from the dust of the ground, I believe man was formed from the dust of the ground, and man became a breathing creature/ living creature/ a living soul.

me too, but I could be wrong about that :o)

[micah7:9]

I do not believe man was "lowered  from a "spirit" state," to be formed from the dust of the ground, I believe man was formed from the dust of the ground, and man became a breathing creature/ living creature/ a living soul.

me too, but I could be wrong about that :o)

Yes I am on that parapet myself, I am, I hope not making enemys as I poke the proverbial hornests nest. It is not my intentions.
I am here standing with Bro. Paul and his offering of 1Cor.15:45. I state now that should Bro. Paul be in error here, then what else is there of Bro. Paul that we have accepted as a truth, is in our reality false?

[eaglesway]

Dude, I was just being cute, forgive me :o) I hope my brothers and sisters can understand our point of view and have reasonable discourse about such things. I think the word clearly teaches the creation/genesis of man in Adam and I am not ashamed of that.... hornets nests are just carnality manifesting. I am learning how not to get stung but its a slow process, because I am not as meek as I could me, nor as humble. The way I see it, the Logos is complete.... it is just not completely understood. God breathed His spirit into the clay that he formed and Adam BECAME, a living soul.

[micah7:9]

Dude, I was just being cute, forgive me :o) I hope my brothers and sisters can understand our point of view and have reasonable discourse about such things. I think the word clearly teaches the creation/genesis of man in Adam and I am not ashamed of that.... hornets nests are just carnality manifesting. I am learning how not to get stung but its a slow process, because I am not as meek as I could me, nor as humble. The way I see it, the Logos is complete.... it is just not completely understood. God breathed His spirit into the clay that he formed and Adam BECAME, a living soul.

Yes and I agree. Man would like to accept and embrace that man is something other than what he is....clay,
along with the breath of the Creator man became a living creature. Man seems to always want to be better or higher up than he is. God, created us, God knows our use, there aint nothing thats been accomplished by man,  that God did not want accomplished.
Until man is chosen..... Joh 6:44  no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

[Beloved Servant]

To quote our beloved Nathan from another thread:

" . . .say it with me cuz I know you all know it . .. I've seen it posted on here more than once . . .your spirit goes . .where?  BACK to God WHO SENT IT.  Which indicates that it did exist "before" it entered into these bodies of flesh."

[micah7:9]

To quote our beloved Nathan from another thread:

" . . .say it with me cuz I know you all know it . .. I've seen it posted on here more than once . . .your spirit goes . .where?  BACK to God WHO SENT IT.  Which indicates that it did exist "before" it entered into these bodies of flesh."

+

As I have stated many times before, should that be true then Paul was out of your circle of information. I have a great desire to find refuse in your ".your spirit goes . .where?  BACK to God WHO SENT IT.  Which indicates that it did exist "before" it entered into these bodies of flesh."  I like it , I embrace it, I have a great desire for it to be so, but what do I do with
1Co 15:45  so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit, Is Paul in error? Just where does this "adam/man was first... a "spirit" then "and the man becometh a living creature." I will bear with you. God is spirit, on this we will agree. But what if "that Spirit" had the inclination to make the "first man/adam" a living soul and had to grow into that man of spirit? Yes God is spirit, and being spirit He can do just about all he wants to do.
Paul writes, should I believe him? I wonder. 1Co 15:45  so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' i am inclined to believe Paul over all the insinuations otherwise. I Love Jesus...He Is Lord.

[Beloved Servant]

have you prayed about it, yet?

[micah7:9]

have you prayed about it, yet?

Yes I have prayed many years. I was solid and permanent with the teaching of Bro. Eby, but questions arose, I would like to believe  his theory to be true, with all my heart. God is Spirit and all EVERYTHING is out of spirit,
Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
Iam clay, a man...adam...the Bible teaches that man was formed from the dust of the ground and the Lord God breathed into the nostriles of the formed dust and the dust became a living/creature/soul. Now I realize that God is spirit, the spirit is where all evloves from, who is to say that GOD did not begin "man/adam" from that formed dust of the ground and His breath, to make us all to understand that we are is Gen.2:7. Where do we read that man was spirit "first" and then clay?