Lowered?

[WhiteWings]

How much can status lowered until it become an insult to the original.

Let's assume God has an an IQ of 1000. Would it be fair to compare with an IQ of 999? 800? 100? 50?
Can a sinless God be compared with someone that sinned once in a life time? 100x? 1000x Several times daily?
If there is an exact image of God and all kind of negative human qualities are added it no longer is an image.
Once again there is no agreement on the translation of image.
Shadow or outline are consired better translations.

The Man is an image of God.

Man is the shaow of God.

Adam is also called the image of the one to come,

Adam is the shadow of things to come.

meaning Jesus.

Who proves anybody before Him were a very sad excuse of an image.

[Molly]

How much can status lowered until it become an insult to the original.

Let's assume God has an an IQ of 1000. Would it be fair to compare with an IQ of 999? 800? 100? 50?
Can a sinless God be compared with someone that sinned once in a life time? 100x? 1000x Several times daily?
If there is an exact image of God and all kind of negative human qualities are added it no longer is an image.
Once again there is no agreement on the translation of image.
Shadow or outline are consired better translations.

The Man is an image of God.

Man is the shaow of God.

Adam is also called the image of the one to come,

Adam is the shadow of things to come.

meaning Jesus.

Who proves anybody before Him were a very sad excuse of an image.

I'm not sure what your point is.  Is it your intent to say that man is nothing  at all like elohiym?  Or is a poor resemblance?  Or God didn't mean what he  said in Gen 1:26 or what?

Remember how Jesus loved his disciples, even though they kept misunderstanding, and getting things wrong, and doing the wrong thing?  Do you think their 'IQ' mattered to him?

He loves us because of who we are, not because of what we are, just like we love our own children--unconditionally.  And, how could you possibly know what we will be when we receive our inheritance?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that when He shall appear we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that hath this hope in him, purifleth himself even as He is pure."
(I John III: v. 2, 3).

[thinktank]

I think what wings is saying is that if man was created in Gods image then, he should be perfect and therefore not fail the test of the tree, or to not have high and lofty thoughts of becoming like God.

I guess it depends oh what that image represents. Is Adam simply a copy of God?

The way I see it is simply that Adam has been created complete with Gods power. But Gods morality and sense of justice was not given, but something to learn.

Or the alternative I reason is that

Adam was created in Gods image but God is gigantic and without limits. But Adam is like a miniature God, and so therefore cannot be compared To God, because he is not even close to His power and majesty, and maybe this fact allowed the serpent to overcome them. Since only God has power over the devil. We as believers only have power of evil, in Christs name, not in our own name.

Also Adam is only a  baby. God is ancient and all wise. Adam and Eve did not know about the true nature of Gods message of ye shall surely die. Otherwise they would not have listened to the serpent.
Also God has knowledge of both good and evil. Adam and Eve did not have this knowledge until they partake of the tree of good and evil.

Now the above is talking about Adam as a living soul. So I assume, that Adam and Eve as a soul would have to learn their new bodily Earthly functions, just as a new born child would.
So maybe by being Earthly dust beings, they no longer have that knowledge or privileges of earthly heaven spoken of in Gen 1 , so they must learn new way of dust based earthly clay living soul living, and this takes place before they partake of the tree of good and evil.

:2c:

[micah7:9]

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that when He shall appear we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that hath this hope in him, purifleth himself even as He is pure."
(I John III: v. 2, 3).

Gen 1:27  And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.  I contend that God is still working on this.

2Co 4:18  we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen are temporary, but the things not seen are age-during.

Molly you dont believe what is written in Ecc.? Why do you think so highly of man/adam?
Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; and man hath no preeminence above the beasts: for all is vanity.

[sheila]

Matt 12;42

   The Quenn of the South ..........WILL RISE AT THE JUDGEMENT WITH THIS GENERATION AND CONDEMN IT


      FOR SHE CAME FROM THE ENDS OF THE EARTH TO LISTEN TO SOLOMON'S WISDOM

     AND NOW,ONE GREATER THAN SOLOMON IS HERE

    Dark am I,yet lovely...O'daughter's of Jerusalem...dark like the tents of Kedar...LIKE THE TENT CURTAINS OF SOLOMON

   tell me,you whom I lovewhere you graze your flock and where you rest your sheep at mid-day[brightest light]


     WHY SHOULD I BE LIKE A VEILED WOMAN BESIDE THE FLOCKS OF YOUR FREINDS?

    if you do not know,most beautiful of women.......follow the tracks of the sheep..........and graze your young goats by the tents of the shepherds

[Molly]

...and now one greater than Jonah is here.


I tell you that one greater than the temple is here.

This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

[Molly]

For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,


saying, "I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE."

--Heb 2:11,12

[micah7:9]

Psa 149:1  Praise ye Jehovah. Sing unto Jehovah a new song, And his praise in the assembly of the saints.

[Molly]

Psa 149:1  Praise ye Jehovah. Sing unto Jehovah a new song, And his praise in the assembly of the saints.

He will sing Adam's praises in the midst of ekklesia.

Adam and the sons of Adam are redeemed by a kinsman redeemer, a family member who buys back a relative's property for a ransom. 

If nothing was lost, then what is being bought back?

Don't you know that you were bought at a price?

When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive.

He has purchased us back.  So aren't we being restored to where we began?

"redeem"

H1350
גּאל
gâ'al
gaw-al'
A primitive root, to redeem according to the Oriental law of kinship), that is, to be the next of kin (and as such to buy back a relative's propertymarry his widow, etc.): -  X in any wise, X at all, avenger, deliver, (do, perform the part of near, next) kinsfolk (-man), purchase, ransom, redeem (-er), revenger.

[micah7:9]

"So aren't we being restored to where we began?"

Yes I do.  The Lord has me looking into it further.
Isa 43:19 Behold Me doing a new thing. Now is it sprouting. Are you not knowing it? Indeed, I am placing a way in the wilderness, tracks in the desolation."

But if man/adam was lowered from a spirit realm the Paul didnt get it.
He is doing a NEW THING, is there restoring, yes I believe so, but new is not re....newed.

[Molly]

"So aren't we being restored to where we began?"

Yes I do.  The Lord has me looking into it further.
Isa 43:19 Behold Me doing a new thing. Now is it sprouting. Are you not knowing it? Indeed, I am placing a way in the wilderness, tracks in the desolation."

But if man/adam was lowered from a spirit realm the Paul didnt get it.
He is doing a NEW THING, is there restoring, yes I believe so, but new is not re....newed.

So are you thinking we are being restored but to a higher position?  Because of the work of Christ?

Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
--Phil 2:9


21Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

22A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

--Isa 60

[Beloved Servant]

Beyond Eden.

[Molly]

Beyond Eden.

Good title for a book. :winkgrin:

I keep thinking I'm missing something.  Adam, who is the image of the one to come, shows many parallels to Jesus.  For one, Adam to Eve is as Jesus to the church.  But, if Adam and Eve had remained in the garden, we would not now have a huge company, a troop of believers, multitudes greater than the sands of the sea.  So, a small one has become a strong nation.  We are a nation of priests, with Jesus as the chief high priest, a nation of kings, with Jesus as the King of kings--a peculiar people.  In this way our restoration will be greater than the original Man in the garden--one has become a thousand.  But are there other ways, as well?

[sheila]

    HE IS CREATING A NEW HEAVENS....not just a new earth.....

     a mere woman shall encompass a man.......He exalts what He has humbled....in the place where it was said,'Not my people, you shall be called the SONS OF GOD"

        the Kingdom of the Love of His son

     the original Adam was naked......

[sheila]

 Proverbs 8;22    The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works[Wisdom],BEFORE HIS DEEDS OF OLD...I was appointed from eternity

  from the beginning,before the world began. When there were no oceans I was given birth,when there were no springs abounding with water

  before the mountains were settled in place....before He made the earth or the feild or any of the dust of the world....

        I was there when He set the haevens in place.......v30  then I was a craftsman at His side......REJOICING IN hIS WHOLE WORLD AND

      DELIGHTING IN MANKIND.......v 31   NOW THEN MY SONS,LISTEN TO ME

           The Above is Wisdoms call.......OF WHICH jESUS WAS WITH HER...AND STATED hE WAS FROM ABOVE

    Mattew 11;19   the Son of Man came eating and drinking,and they say,'HERE IS A GLUTTON AND A FREIND OF TAX-COLLECTORS AND 'SINNERS'

   but wisdom is proved righteous by her sons

     

[Beloved Servant]

Beyond Eden.

Good title for a book. :winkgrin:

I keep thinking I'm missing something.  Adam, who is the image of the one to come, shows many parallels to Jesus.  For one, Adam to Eve is as Jesus to the church.  But, if Adam and Eve had remained in the garden, we would not now have a huge company, a troop of believers, multitudes greater than the sands of the sea.  So, a small one has become a strong nation.  We are a nation of priests, with Jesus as the chief high priest, a nation of kings, with Jesus as the King of kings--a peculiar people.  In this way our restoration will be greater than the original Man in the garden--one has become a thousand.  But are there other ways, as well?

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be on his shoulder: and His name shall be called
Wonderful, Counselor,                                                                                                                                 Mighty God,
                                                                                                                                                           Everlasting Father,
Prince of Peace.

[Molly]

    HE IS CREATING A NEW HEAVENS....not just a new earth.....

     a mere woman shall encompass a man.......He exalts what He has humbled....in the place where it was said,'Not my people, you shall be called the SONS OF GOD"

        the Kingdom of the Love of His son

     the original Adam was naked......

I am overwhelmed with joy in the LORD my God! For he has dressed me with the clothing of salvation and draped me in a robe of righteousness. I am like a bridegroom in his wedding suit or a bride with her jewels.
--Isa 61:10

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

--Gal 3

[eaglesway]

    HE IS CREATING A NEW HEAVENS....not just a new earth.....

     a mere woman shall encompass a man.......He exalts what He has humbled....in the place where it was said,'Not my people, you shall be called the SONS OF GOD"

        the Kingdom of the Love of His son

     the original Adam was naked......

I am overwhelmed with joy in the LORD my God! For he has dressed me with the clothing of salvation and draped me in a robe of righteousness. I am like a bridegroom in his wedding suit or a bride with her jewels.
--Isa 61:10

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

--Gal 3

Amen and Amen

[Pierac]

"So aren't we being restored to where we began?"

No... Joh 3:6  "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

You will be a new creation but from the dead... Gal 6:15  For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.


Luk 20:34  Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,  but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;  for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."

Joh 11:25  Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

You will not be restored to flesh! Even though you have a body... it will not be flesh!

Paul

[Pierac]

Where can I find verses in the Bible that clearly state man was lowered from a spirit before he became a living soul? thank you

You can not because man did and does not presist...  except in the Logos (Plan) of God.

Paul

[Molly]

You will not be restored to flesh! Even though you have a body... it will not be flesh!

I have thought we would have a body like the resurrected body of Christ.  But, he calls it 'flesh and bone.'  It's interesting he doesn't call it 'flesh and blood.'  It might be a different kind of flesh?  And, we all share the same blood which is his Spirit?

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

[jabcat]

You will not be restored to flesh! Even though you have a body... it will not be flesh!

I have thought we would have a body like the resurrected body of Christ.  But, he calls it 'flesh and bone.'  It's interesting he doesn't call it 'flesh and blood.'  It might be a different kind of flesh?  And, we all share the same blood which is his Spirit?

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

I believe there are at least scriptural indications (previously noted) that we pre-existed (in a spirit form, not as "man") and that it is pretty clearly scriptural that upon resurrection, we will have a body.  As you guys are saying though, I'm not sure what it will be like or how it will function.  Apostle Paul calls it a spiritual body, and as you say, flesh and bones (not flesh and blood).  He said there is a fleshly body and a spiritual body.  One is sown in corruption (mortality) the other raised in incorruption (immortality). 

As far as a new creation, I understand that to be talking about the "born again man", saved from the flesh (i.e., sin and death) - which happens when we're given the faith to believe unto salvation.

[micah7:9]

Curious, "I believe there are at least scriptural indications that we pre-existed (in a spirit form, not as "man") and that it is pretty clearly scriptural that upon resurrection, we will have a body.

Where might these scriptural indications clearly stated?

Also, when we speak of this "body" I believe that it speaks of the "fleshy body" he is speaking of us as the individual  now as we arel, but when Paul speaks of The Body he speaks of ONE BODY.

1Co 12:18  and now, God did set the members each one of them in the body, according as He willed,
1Co 12:19  and if all were one member, where the body?
1Co 12:20  and now, indeed, are many members, and one body;

1Co 15:44  it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body;

Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit, according as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;
1Co 15:22  for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,

Jud 1:9 Now when Michael, the chief messenger, doubting the Adversary, argued concerning the body of Moses, he dares not bring on a calumniating judging, but said,
I reason that "the body of Moses" was/is Israel, one body moving as the Lord led Moses.

[sheila]

 
     I tell you the answer is in Genesis1; 16.....He also made the stars.....stars are sons[suns]...God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on earth

    to govern the day and the night...AND TO SEPERATE LIGHT FROM DARKNESS


    ch 2;4 when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens- and no shrub on the feil had yet appeared on the earth...

......and there was   no man to work the ground....

...why did HE want the ground worked?   to sow HIS SEED IN IT[make the clay vessels of which His spirit children would dwell]did you plow with my heifer?

    thou has prepared a body for me..............in the lowest depths of the earth I am wonderfully made

  [ on the third day He created the stars of Heaven...to give light on earth]

  v 29 I GIVE YOU EVERY SEED BEARING PLANT ON THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH,AND EVERY TREE THAT HAS FRUIT WITH SEED IN IT]


    to Abraham he said,I will make your seed as numerous as the sands on the seashore and as multitudous as the stars in heaven

     I watched as He OPENED THE SIXTH SEAL v 13 and the STARS OF THE SKY FELL TO THE EARTH....as late figs drop from a fig tree,when shaken

   by a strong wind......the sky receded like a scroll,rolling up[all in old heavens sent down for exercize in good and evil] and every mountain and island

   was removed from it's place Rev 6;12-14    Jewish GOF

  Luke 21;29   Look at the fig trees............this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened


   and what shall we speak of the fig tree..or the fig leaf,for that matter..and the fruit thereof


     and in our day..we found the Word of God sealed up in clay vessels[Lost Gospel/dead sea scrolls]


    Rev 5   the Scroll and the Lamb     then I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a scroll with writings on both sides....and

   sealed with seven seals

[sheila]

 John 15;27

     AND YOU ALSO MUST TESTIFY, FOR YOU HAVE BEEN WITH ME FROM THE BEGINNING