Lowered?

[redhotmagma]

katabole 2602

1) a throwing or laying down
a) the injection or depositing of the virile semen in the womb
b) of the seed of plants and animals
2) a founding (laying down a foundation)

Matt 13:35  This fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet:   "I will open my mouth in parables, I will announce what has been hidden from the foundation of the world."

from

katabolle 2598

1) to cast down
1a) to throw to the ground, prostate
2) to put in a lower place
2a) to lay (down) a foundation

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

It seems as though the idea of the foundation of the world has to do with casting down, lowering.

In a philosophical sense the only way we could go is down when we were created.  If we are any less than 100% God we would go from a high to low.  That is if you see the creation as separate from God (from Him, through Him, to Him are all things).  And now I could go down endless hallways in this thought process so I'll leave it at that.

[sheila]

 Abraham's seed was as the sand on the seashore and as the stars of heaven. The sand being the lowered state.....the stars being the elevated.

  Father showed what He was doing with His progency in Abraham.

   

      had a major computor crash.......sheila


    we are to carry no burden into the Holy city on our Sabbath....no burden of sin/justified in Christ....though Pharissees and sadducees heap up heavy loads

   inpossibe to bear......His yoke is LIGHT.   He has set our bound spirits free....and in due time....will clothe us from on High.

   no heavy loads exist in the spirit realm...no pain,no death,no tears......this is the GLORIOUS FREEDOM OF THE SONS OF GOD

   when that which is impossible for men[flesh]....becomes reality by Hiis spirit


    we are told..that satan would put us in prison...for ten days[a restriction from the freedom in the spirit He gives us] but He visits us..in our prison[bound in

   the earth].....read the accounts of the spirit freeing Peter from prison.....this is what He purposes for all mankind. No limitations[binding]


     the principle...'whatever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven"    when you bind someone in their sins[unforgiven] they are bound in the heavens[spirit]

   when you 'loose' through forgiveness/Christ] from sin...you loosen the spirit into heaven[sit in High places]


    now, satan was loosed[adversary/accusor] someone..give him the power to snatch from His hand/an impossible thought] and by thus doing

   set him free in the heavens[spirit realm] to deceive again.on earth...a great crowd of Gog as the sand on the seashore.....bent on

   surrounding the HOLY CITY CAMP IN THE EARTH...to hem it in and bind it.


    fire is coming down from heaven to consume all adversaries of the truth


   WEAK WOMEN HAVE BEEN TAKEN CAPTIVE TIMOTHY 3;6]    THEY ARE THE KIND WHO WORM THEIR WAY INTO HOMES AND GAIN CONTROL

  OF WEAK-WILLED WOMEN,WHO ARE LOADED DOWN BY SINS AND ARE SWAYED BY ALL KINDS OF EVIL DESIRES,ALWAYS LEARNING BUT

  NEVER ABLE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH[ALL MANKIND SAVED]   JUST AS JANNES AND JAMBRES OPPOSED MOSES[DELIVERANCE] SO

  ALSO THESE MEN OPPOSE THE TRUTH- MEN OF DEPRAVED MINDS...WHO AS FAR AS THE FAITH[SPIRIT] IS CONCERNED,ARE REJECTED

   BUT,THEY WILL NOT GET VERY FAR,BECAUSE,AS IN THE CASE OF THOSE MEN,THEIR FOLLY WILL BE CLEAR TO ALL

[Beloved Servant]

Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful   Wonderful

[Beloved Servant]

"He has set our bound spirits free... this is the GLORIOUS FREEDOM OF THE SONS OF GOD."

[Beloved Servant]

"Sacrifice and offering Thou didst not desire; mine ears hast Thou opened" (Ps. 40:6);

"Sacrifice and offering Thou wouldest not, but a body hast Thou prepared me" (Heb. 10:5).

[micah7:9]

A few tidbits

we were created first in Adam, a living soul
we are created second in Jesus Christ- begotten from above/born again- a life giving spirit, in other words- zoe life/aionian zoe

"the spirit returns to God who gave" it may reasonably only refer to the life breath from him that combines with the clay to create a new unique being (be fruitful and multiply) and is no sure proof verse for prexistence IMO

No man may enter the kingdom unless he is born of the water and the spirit- the wind blows where it wills and we hear the sound of it but we don't know from whence it came or wither it goes- SO IT IS WITH EVERYONE WHO IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT

Whatever we are predestined to inherit, many are called but few are chosen, and we must be born of the water and the spirit to be "birthed" into it

If we abide /continue/dwell/tabernacle in Christ, in the I AM, we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free- walking in the Spirit/walking in the light/tree of life

to him that has more shall be given

If we do not walk in the spirit, if we walk in the pleasures of the flesh and the mind, in knowledge without wisdom, becoming arrogant and satisfied- we dry up and wither as branches and are gathered to be consumed in the fire- second death, set free the hard way ;o)

He that has not- even that he has shall be taken

Today, if you hear His voice harden not your hearts. IMO entering the promised land, partakers of the divine nature, walking in the works prepared from the foundation of the world that we should walk in them- has nothing to do with what we know of origins or speculate concerning our prenatal existence(or not). Personally, I believe I was "formed in my mothers womb", but I am not opposed to the concept of prenatal existence as sentient spirits. However, I am more concerned as to how we become life giving spirits that manifest the kingdom TODAY in the I AM. SO IT IS WITH EVERYONE WHO IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT.

I am not sure I qualify.

God is Good. :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Thanks everyone.
Ill stick with the words of Paul in 1Co 15:45  So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Peace and Love Through Jesus. Very good Eaglesway.

[Beloved Servant]

Micah,

Can the soul be likened music?
You can not grasp it in your hand yet it is a moving and powerful expression?

Or a beautiful painting whose canvas is rolled up and can only be admired once the scroll is opened?

Or a ripe peach that needs to be tasted to be enjoyed?

[micah7:9]

Thanks Beloved.
Ill stick with the words of Paul in 1Co 15:45  So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

[Molly]

Micah,

Can the soul be likened music?
You can not grasp it in your hand yet it is a moving and powerful expression?

Or a beautiful painting whose canvas is rolled up and can only be admired once the scroll is opened?

Or a ripe peach that needs to be tasted to be enjoyed?

:thumbsup:
You yourselves are our letter, whose writing is in our heart, open for every man's reading and knowledge;

3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

--2 Cor 3

[micah7:9]

Im sorry but what are you Beloved Servant and Molly trying to say? I do not understand?

What I do know is that Paul had the Word of Isa. and Pas. but yet Paul does not use any of your verses to show that man was a "spirit"first and then a living creature/soul. Like I have stated i believed in that theory/doctrine for many years, but my Bible does not show what Bro. Eby says or Sis. van dorn have written.

    Micah,

    Can the soul be likened music?
    You can not grasp it in your hand yet it is a moving and powerful expression?

    Or a beautiful painting whose canvas is rolled up and can only be admired once the scroll is opened?

    Or a ripe peach that needs to be tasted to be enjoyed?

This is what I dont see as having anything to do with the post.

[Beloved Servant]

Hi Micah,
Specifically, that was not a rhetorical question.
I wrote those examples in an endeavor to understand your view.

Are they good analogies?
How would you define the word?

I'm trying to cross the borders of your mind! lol

[jabcat]

Hi micah.  I'm the kind of person who who entertains different possibilities, so please don't take this as me "arguing" with you.  I try to understand, reason, etc.   :bigGrin:

With that in mind, do you think it's possible something became something (for instance, "a living soul") but could very well have been something else before that?  That just because it "became", doesn't mean it never had another, different form or existence?

Seems to me SO many things are a matter of how well we are able to see it, how we interpret it, how it's "best" interpreted/revealed.  What I think the scripture says, sometimes there may just be more to it that what I realize.  One part of what Paul said that I think of specifically is, that the last Adam (Jesus) became a life-giving spirit...does that mean He had absolutely no existence, in any "form" prior to that, or that maybe Paul is qualifying What He was/is, with the "life-giving" description, or some other possibility?  I've always thought of Jesus as having eternally existed in some "form" or another...

If that's the case, then maybe the "man became a living soul" statement doesn't rule out that he/we were something else prior to that?  Sort of like a butterfly was a worm, was a group of cells, was an atom, etc.?  So did it truly never exist in any form, or could it be that it is now just in its more complete stage?   I don't know, I'm thinking/suggesting for consideration.  I do tend to believe in pre-existence of human-kind of some sort, but I wouldn't be 100% surprised to find out that it wasn't true.  :2c:   I've been surprised by many things.   :winkgrin:

[jabcat]

Sorry, I don't mean to weary you with this, but I personally find it very interesting and relevant to the discussion.  I also ran across this from Brother Eby.  Maybe there's something in this, from the scriptures he quotes and how he interprets them that may help?  It's some things I hadn't completely thought about/realized before. 

"As poor Job sat on the ash heap in the midst of trial and suffering the Lord commanded him to stand up like a man and respond to the questions He, the Lord, would put to him. The Lord then asked forty questions, none of which Job could answer. Among the questions was this one: "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth...when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:7). Job was speechless, for he had no idea where he was in that time of long ago, but the truth, it seems to me, was that Job was there among the company of the sons of God, beholding with wonder the plan of God on earth with its sufferings and testiness and the glory that should follow. These sons of God who shouted for joy on that primeval morn understood the wisdom of a plan by which they should gain the enlightenment of perfection by experience instead of perfection by creations guided only by divine instincts, and that the sufferings of this world are not worthy to be compared to the glory that is to follow as a result of them, and so awesome was the prospect that they shouted for joy in holy expectation. We do not shout unless there is something to shout about. The message is clear--there was a time before the foundations of the earth were laid; there were sons of God who already existed in that ancient time; and those young sons of God lifted their voices with the morning stars in contemplation of the marvelous purpose they were to fulfill. It is precious to know that God's first Son, our own Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, is named the Bright and Morning Star.

In the ninetieth Psalm referred to above the prophet David assures us with great plainness of speech that the Lord has been our dwelling place in all generations. Even before the mountains were brought forth or God had formed the earth, from everlasting to everlasting He is God and in Him we dwelt and from Him we came. Our spirits were with Him before the creation of the earth, for the Father was then our dwelling place. We were sent to this earthly realm for a wise and glorious purpose--for testing, learning, instruction, training, discipline, and perfection--preparation for our part in that magnificent work of deliverance of the whole creation from the tyranny of darkness, decay and death. The Psalmist said, "Thou turnest man to destruction (this realm of sin and death, of flesh and blood); and sayest, Return, ye children of men" (Ps. 90:3). The Lord turned man to destruction, which is to say, He sent us down to this earth realm of dust, sin and death, and then said to us, "Return! ye children of men." What a revelation that is!

During our sojourn in this life, we (the firstfruits) have heard our Father's call to return to Him. And so we are returning in obedience to His call and in the strength and anointing of His quickening Spirit. I do not believe our heavenly Father will leave us in this realm of destruction one day longer than is necessary. When He who in eternal wisdom turned us to destruction sees that all the lessons have been fully and eternally learned and that destruction's work has been fulfilled, then He says, "Return, ye children of men," and we return. When our Lord says, "Come," we come. Matters not how far we have wandered in our sin or how low we have gone in degradation. When the day comes for the Lord to say RETURN YE CHILDREN OF MEN He puts into our hearts the desire to return and we return. At the end of our sojourn in this earthly realm we will have learned the truths Father wanted us to learn and experienced His ways unto perfection. We began in God, we are walking out our predestined path in this life, and will return to the Father as fully manifest sons of God, equipped to set creation free from the curse of sin and death.

Far away in the depths of my spirit today there is a chord that still vibrates to that wondrous shout of joy before the foundations of the earth were laid, when, in that long forgotten past we were there with the Father in spirit, and there is an inward sense of assurance that much of the truth we now possess was known to our spirits since that early beginning. Because the spirit is burdened down with the earthly and visible, man has come to the place in his experience where the inner sanctum wherein God lives in man's spirit is veiled by the flesh and his spiritual consciousness is imprisoned by this gross material realm. We remember not the things of old--until that heaven-blest day when Christ comes in quickening power and touches the mind of our spirit, restoring the memory of those former things. For lack of true understanding we call this restored memory "revelation". When by the eyes of spirit we see Jesus, crowned with glory and honor, the powerful attraction kindled in our hearts for Christ and reality is, in fact, just the beginning of the wonderful RENEWING OF THE MIND to recall again the things of that high and holy realm from whence we came. The "renewing" of the mind can be nothing else but the restoration of the mind to a realm of knowledge and understanding previously enjoyed."

[micah7:9]

Hi Micah,
Specifically, that was not a rhetorical question.
I wrote those examples in an endeavor to understand your view.

Are they good analogies?
How would you define the word?

I'm trying to cross the borders of your mind! lol

I will not attempt to your question, if it is the word soul that you ask of, been there.

[Beloved Servant]

That's OK.
I once asked for the definition of "spirit" and never got a sufficient response.
Yet these things are more real than anything we can see or touch.

[WhiteWings]

With that in mind, do you think it's possible something became something (for instance, "a living soul") but could very well have been something else before that?  That just because it "became", doesn't mean it never had another, different form or existence?

Became is not in the Hebrew text.
It's: ......breath lliving man living soul...

[jabcat]

With that in mind, do you think it's possible something became something (for instance, "a living soul") but could very well have been something else before that?  That just because it "became", doesn't mean it never had another, different form or existence?

Became is not in the Hebrew text.
It's: ......breath lliving man living soul...

I'd like to see the broader context, i.e., a line or two prior and after.

What do  you think the Hebrew is saying there, Tony?

[micah7:9]

Hi micah.  I'm the kind of person who who entertains different possibilities, so please don't take this as me "arguing" with you.  I try to understand, reason, etc.   :bigGrin:

With that in mind, do you think it's possible something became something (for instance, "a living soul") but could very well have been something else before that?  That just because it "became", doesn't mean it never had another, different form or existence?

Seems to me SO many things are a matter of how well we are able to see it, how we interpret it, how it's "best" interpreted/revealed.  What I think the scripture says, sometimes there may just be more to it that what I realize.  One part of what Paul said that I think of specifically is, that the last Adam (Jesus) became a life-giving spirit...does that mean He had absolutely no existence, in any "form" prior to that, or that maybe Paul is qualifying What He was/is, with the "life-giving" description, or some other possibility?  I've always thought of Jesus as having eternally existed in some "form" or another...

If that's the case, then maybe the "man became a living soul" statement doesn't rule out that he/we were something else prior to that?  Sort of like a butterfly was a worm, was a group of cells, was an atom, etc.?  So did it truly never exist in any form, or could it be that it is now just in its more complete stage?   I don't know, I'm thinking/suggesting for consideration.  I do tend to believe in pre-existence of human-kind of some sort, but I wouldn't be 100% surprised to find out that it wasn't true.  :2c:   I've been surprised by many things.   :winkgrin:

Perhaps, what you say "With that in mind, do you think it's possible something became something (for instance, "a living soul") but could very well have been something else before that?  That just because it "became", doesn't mean it never had another, different form or existence?" But is that not just your assumption or the act of accepting something you think is so?

"I do tend to believe in pre-existence of human-kind of some sort,..."(Jabcat) I to have had a thinking like that, but I cant find it to a truth.
As far as Bro. Eby I have stated that I believed him Ive was given opportunity to teach that theory and people believed, for this I am a bit fearful now, for I followed Eby rather than the Word.

I am certain that should we look at the words Spirit, spirit, breath of life, wind, alive, and life out side of how those words have been presented by religion and the sects and denominations there would be a greater hope of understanding The Word.
God is Spirit (Jo.4:24) 

[micah7:9]

That's OK.
I once asked for the definition of "spirit" and never got a sufficient response.
Yet these things are more real than anything we can see or touch.

I asked as well.

[jabcat]

this is what i get from the online Hebrew interlinear on my desktop;

and·he-is-forming
   the·human  from
־
the·ground
and·he-is-blowing
in·nostrils-of·him
breath-of
   
lives
and·he-is-becoming
    the·human
to·soul
living

[jabcat]

That's OK.
I once asked for the definition of "spirit" and never got a sufficient response.
Yet these things are more real than anything we can see or touch.

I asked as well.

Maybe we've got 10,000 opinions but most either don't really know and/or can't sufficiently put it into words   :dunno2:

I think I personally only have bits and pieces of it.

[WhiteWings]

You really want to know that....?  :laughing7:

It simply means the man was dead and started living.
Compare it to a car.
God build a car. Then He turned the ignition key.

[WhiteWings]

this is what i get from the online Hebrew interlinear on my desktop;

and·he-is-forming
   the·human  from
־
the·ground
and·he-is-blowing
in·nostrils-of·him
breath-of
   
lives
and·he-is-becoming
    the·human
to·soul
living

That a LOT of interpretation....

Yehovah   Elohiym   to.form    man(kind)  dust   of   ground   to.breath    nostril    breath/spirit    living   man(kind)   living  soul

Note: breath/spirit is NOT the same Hebrew words as Soul

[micah7:9]

That's OK.
I once asked for the definition of "spirit" and never got a sufficient response.
Yet these things are more real than anything we can see or touch.

I asked as well.

Maybe we've got 10,000 opinions but most either don't really know and/or can't sufficiently put it into words   :dunno2:

I think I personally only have bits and pieces of it.

What you say is true.