The numbers of God

[WhiteWings]

I understand/know.
But for me it's not clear when  Bible approved usage turns into magic.
I truly don't understand why 1+2 is allowed but 1+2+3 not.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I guess I don't understand your question..... :dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

a] Give me an example of allowed use of numbers.
b] Give me an example of magical use of numbers.
c] Explain what's the difference. --> Just saying God did forbid it isn't an acceptable answer because then I still don't know how to spot the difference.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Ok, numerology is a black arts form of witchcraft, wherein the user takes the person's name and birthdate and prepares a "chart" from it, to describe the person's life history, as well as predict their future.

It's similar to astrology, just a different method. And it's evil because, 1) only God knows the end from the beginning, and 2) it's not looking to HIM as the source of direction and counsel. And once in agreement with these types of activities, entities behind the particular "art", have a legal right to go forth and BRING ABOUT, whatever was "predicted", and they can and DO.

The core essence of witchcraft is self-will/governing. And a surprising number of things fall into that category, besides the obvious like these two things I just discussed. Blessings....

[Molly]

And once in agreement with these types of activities, entities behind the particular "art", have a legal right to go forth and BRING ABOUT, whatever was "predicted", and they can and DO.

Yikes.  So that's how they do it.  Some of these people are uncanny in predicting the future.  Then you are saying if we looked to God instead of demons, the future might be different?

[CHB]

I think it is kind of like miracles. the miracles that the magicians did in front of Pharaoh and Moses was considered witchcraft but the miracles that Moses did was from God. Seems to me it is the intention or use behind these things that determine whether they be black magic/witchcraft or spiritual, not the numbers, or miracles.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

That's clear Cardinal. I sorta knew that already. It's a bit of an extreme example. But it still doesn't explain where the border is that I shouldn't pass.

Ah! Ok.

1+2+3+4=10
I'm wondering if it's right to play number games and assume they have Biblical value.

It's a type of magic.  And magic is forbidden.
The magicians love their numbers: 911, 11/22, 7/7...

You seemed to agree with Molly's quote.
I still don't understand why.
I'm just adding a few number. No birthdates, names, color of the hair or whatever else.
Just a some numbers from a Biblically approved (I think) list.

:dontknow:

[Molly]

I think it is kind of like miracles. the miracles that the magicians did in front of Pharaoh and Moses was considered witchcraft but the miracles that Moses did was from God. Seems to me it is the intention or use behind these things that determine whether they be black magic/witchcraft or spiritual, not the numbers, or miracles.

CHB

It's the source.

[WhiteWings]

I think it is kind of like miracles. the miracles that the magicians did in front of Pharaoh and Moses was considered witchcraft but the miracles that Moses did was from God. Seems to me it is the intention or use behind these things that determine whether they be black magic/witchcraft or spiritual, not the numbers, or miracles.

So if the witch of Endor warns me not to take flight KL256 because the plane is gonna crash it's a good thing?
It's postive to warn someone for danger. But getting that info via witchcraft....

[Molly]

That's clear Cardinal. I sorta knew that already. It's a bit of an extreme example. But it still doesn't explain where the border is that I shouldn't pass.

Ah! Ok.

1+2+3+4=10
I'm wondering if it's right to play number games and assume they have Biblical value.

It's a type of magic.  And magic is forbidden.
The magicians love their numbers: 911, 11/22, 7/7...

You seemed to agree with Molly's quote.
I still don't understand why.
I'm just adding a few number. No birthdates, names, color of the hair or whatever else.
Just a some numbers from a Biblically approved (I think) list.

:dontknow:

The Holy Spirit will show you.  Maybe even after the fact.

Ask God for guidance--and protection.

[thinktank]

I think it is kind of like miracles. the miracles that the magicians did in front of Pharaoh and Moses was considered witchcraft but the miracles that Moses did was from God. Seems to me it is the intention or use behind these things that determine whether they be black magic/witchcraft or spiritual, not the numbers, or miracles.

So if the witch of Endor warns me not to take flight KL256 because the plane is gonna crash it's a good thing?
It's postive to warn someone for danger. But getting that info via witchcraft....

Perhaps you were supposed to save some of the people on the aircraft as God intented, but the witch gets you to save yourself.
:2c:

[jabcat]

I think it is kind of like miracles. the miracles that the magicians did in front of Pharaoh and Moses was considered witchcraft but the miracles that Moses did was from God. Seems to me it is the intention or use behind these things that determine whether they be black magic/witchcraft or spiritual, not the numbers, or miracles.

So if the witch of Endor warns me not to take flight KL256 because the plane is gonna crash it's a good thing?
It's postive to warn someone for danger. But getting that info via witchcraft....

Perhaps you were supposed to save some of the people on the aircraft as God intented, but the witch gets you to save yourself.
:2c:

Good points. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I don't think you have anything to worry about WW......you're getting your numbers out of His book and aligning it with scripture; not at all the same thing they do.

@ Molly....they are "uncanny" because a demon is supplying them with the information. It's a clear mimic, because the first thing they usually come up with to "hook" them is, something personal. A familiar spirit gives them that.

With God's Spirit, the first gift mentioned (and utilized) in the speaking gifts is word of knowledge, which He does to build up their faith to receive that it is Him speaking to them thru someone in His body. Word of knowledge is also personal, but usually on a level that ONLY the person and God could know.

The soul of man is so hungry for the spiritual manifestations of God, that it will latch onto the counterfeits unknowingly. And then begins a world of trouble......

[CHB]

I think it is kind of like miracles. the miracles that the magicians did in front of Pharaoh and Moses was considered witchcraft but the miracles that Moses did was from God. Seems to me it is the intention or use behind these things that determine whether they be black magic/witchcraft or spiritual, not the numbers, or miracles.

So if the witch of Endor warns me not to take flight KL256 because the plane is gonna crash it's a good thing?
It's postive to warn someone for danger. But getting that info via witchcraft....

I think God can use the worst of us to do a good thing sometimes.

CHB

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think the correct response to the witch of Endor and the plane scenario, is not to stay off the plane and save self, but to rebuke the witch and the demons that are about to bring the plane down, and then have a "Halleluyah, our God reigns" party on said plane after take off..... :winkgrin: :laughing7:

[redhotmagma]

A lot of number stuff on here, with some cool findings.  I don't understand a large portion of what he says as its all math and that is not my strong suit.  I was looking for 3x+1, happened on this site.  All the G triangles are 3x+1.  I have no idea what the significance is if any (besides as a proof for the divine inspiration of the bible).  His whole "thing" is Genesis 1:1.  All primes past 3 are 6x+1 or 6x-1  (6x+1= 2(3)x+1)

http://www.whatabeginning.com/Misc/Wonders/P.htm

Abstract. On the basis of the self-evident facts presented here the first verse of the Hebrew Scriptures - already featuring the most widely read words of all time - must be regarded as the most remarkable combination of words ever written, and a standing miracle.

Introduction. Few people today realise that what is generally known as 'The Bible' represents, potentially, about 50% of the information contained between its covers. Let me explain: the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek documents from which all Bible translations ultimately derive may also be fairly read as sets of numbers. This intriguing situation comes about because, long ago, these ancient peoples adopted the practice of using the letters of their alphabets as numerals. Accordingly, each letter was associated with a fixed value, and a sequence of letters with the sum of their respective values. Consequently, equipped with the relevant scheme of numeration, every Hebrew or Aramaic word of the Old Testament and every Greek word of the New Testament may be readily translated into a whole number

• . But it is appropriate that we ask whether numbers obtained in this way can, in any sense, be regarded as meaningful. I suggest that, under normal circumstances, we would tend to conclude that these derivatives are meaningless adhesions to the text. But here is a Book that claims to be divinely-inspired! Might not things be different in this case? Might not the numbers represent information that complements the biblical text? Might not this particular text be self-authenticating? How could we know for sure? Clearly, a simple test is required to settle the matter.
  
  The Test. It is reasonable that we begin at the beginning by considering the numbers that arise from a reading of the 7 Hebrew words of the Bible's first verse, Genesis 1:1 - a fundamental and strategically-placed assertion. In word order these are, respectively, 913, 203, 86, 401, 395, 407, and 296; their sum - the number to be associated with the complete verse - is 2701, or 37x73. [1] Now observe:
  
  The reflective factors of this sum - both prime numbers - immediately catch the eye
  These factors are further related geometrically [2]
  Their product, 2701 (representing Genesis 1:1), takes the form of a large triangular number having a cubic outline comprising 216, or 6x6x6, counters [3]
  The sum of the numbers representing words 6 and 7 (translated 'and the earth') is 703, or 19x37; these factors - again, both prime numbers - are related geometrically in much the same way as are 37 and 73 [4]
  Their product, 703, is not only a triangular number, but specifically the one that is closely coordinated with 2701 [5]
  The same pair of numbers feature in a trapezium whose symmetries reveal further divisions of the verse [6]
  Because each of the factors of 2701 is a 'star' number (or hexagram), Genesis 1:1 may be further represented as a 'star of stars' [7]
  On the basis of the foregoing observations it is clear that 37 assumes a dominant role in the Genesis 1:1 number structure; however, it also transpires that 37 is unique as a number per se [8]
  Appropriately, each component of the Creator's Name is found to be a multiple of 37 - indeed, a multiple of 8x37, or 296, value of the 7th word of the Bible's first verse [9]
  A tesselated view of Genesis 1:1 [10]
  The additional features of an augmented form of the first verse [11]
  A significant numero-geometrical singularity leads to the understanding that the numbers undergirding the opening 8 Hebrew words are related parametrically [12]
  The mapping of the salient features of an abundant modern artefact onto these 8 words [13]
  The derivation of the fundamental constant pi (correct to 5 significant figures) from the letters and words of Genesis 1:1 [14]
  The derivation of the fundamental constant e (correct to 5 significant figures) from the letters and words of John 1:1 (a New Testament verse closely related to Genesis 1:1), applying an identical procedure [15]
  A simple 3D excursion serves to reveal further geometric cohesion among the Bible's opening Hebrew words [16]
  Concluding Remarks. These evidences of deep design in the Bible's opening words throw a completely new light on the true status of the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, for Who alone is capable of simultaneously speaking into existence a meaningful sentence copiously embroidered with such a variety of significant number structures - these incorporating the Author's own signature?!
  
  Can this be a sign for our generation? If so, how is it to be interpreted?
  

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Math is not my strong suit either, but I bet WW loves this  :laughing7:  Thanks for the find.....

[WhiteWings]

Gonna read that after a few hours sleep.
I have no clue how he  sees THIS in a line of text.
Right now I'm to sleepy to even find your "G triangle" reference. I only know a Fremason G triangle. 4 of them form a the sign of their god Baphomet (sp?)

[redhotmagma]

he's taking the gematria of Genesis 1:1 then representing it graphically.  Certain numbers are triangle numbers 1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21, 28, 36, 45, 55, ....

If you look at a set of bowling pins set up from the top down you would see 10 pins set in a triangle.  If you added a row with the same layout you would have 15 if you took a row away you would have 6. 

G triangles are similar but they have a central counter (bowling pin) which the others form concentric rings around.  http://www.whatabeginning.com/Themes/Part1/BP.htm
There's square numbers, primes, perfect numbers.  All interwoven into the mix.

If you look at the triangle numbers the 3x+1 numbers fall every two spots just like they do in the normal counting
1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21, 28, 36, 45, 55, ....
1, 2, 3, 4,    5,  6,   7,   8,   9,  10

[redhotmagma]

http://youtu.be/yVkdfJ9PkRQ

video of pendulums creating waveforms, very cool, its math and physics so I posted here.

[Molly]

God is so cute the way he hides little surprises for us.

[Beloved Servant]

http://youtu.be/yVkdfJ9PkRQ

video of pendulums creating waveforms, very cool, its math and physics so I posted here.

        :trampoline:
    :trampoline: :trampoline:
:trampoline: :trampoline: :trampoline:

[WhiteWings]

I found something nice.
Short introduction for those who forgot the math.
2^3 = 2x2x2=8
4^3 = 4x4x4=64

A permutation is shuffeling the the digits of a number. 1234, 4321, 2314, 1423 are all permutations of teh same number. 1237 is not. Simply because the 7 is not in the other numbers.

Every Greek and Hebrew letter has a numerical value. A word has a value that's the of the letter values.
Jesus Christ in Greek has  a value 2368

Let's take a peek a Genesis 1:1 (not what we read a several words is just one word in Hebrew)

In the beginning = 913
created = 203
God = 86
Aleph Tav = 401 ---> The mysterious untranslated 2 letters
heaven = 395
and = 407
earth = 296

String those digits together:  91320386401395407296
9^3 + 1^3 + 3^3 + 2^3 ........ 6^3 = 3826
3826 is a permutation of 2368 (Jesus Christ)

Reverse word values (except the last one) 319+302+68+104+593+704+296=2386 => permutation 2368 Jesus Christ

Total value = 2386
God = 86
God reversed = 68

86-68=18
2386-18=2368 = Jesus Christ


2368 = 37 x 64 = Power x Truth )Greek word values)
This stuff goes on and on.
Divine Completeness

Playing a bit with the speed of light and Gen 1:1 gives 153 a number that keeps returning in all sort of other calculations. (and the 153 fish we discussed a few posts back)

[WhiteWings]

Word values

864 = God (Greek)
864 = Cornerstone (Greek)
864 = God is fire (Greek)
864 = God is peace (Greek)
864 = Life (Greek)
864 = The word of the lord (Hebrew)
864 = Before me there was no god formed, neither shall there after me

[redhotmagma]

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1 0 0 1 0 0 1                 
in binary is 73

pi(73) = 7 * 3

73 is the 37th odd number

73^3 = 343 or (3 + 4)^3

pi(37) = 12 and pi(73) = 21

37*7-73*3 = (7-3)*(7+3)

On that whatabeginning.com he comes down to 37 being the number associated with the creator
lots of random facts about prime numbers on http://primes.utm.edu/curios/page.php?short=73