Lake of Fire = Molten sea of glass = Laver

[WhiteWings]

Not sure the intent of your post Tony-  so First Id agree the JEWS wouldnt see the sprirtual only the shadow= natural ?

The Jews based all their things on OT teachings. They didn't have the NT. So the reason they use grapes instead of potatoes must predate Jesus.


Grapes are one of the 7 "fruits" of the promised land. The spies brought grapes with them. There is a festival celebrating the fruits.
:dontknow:

[Taffy]

Not sure the intent of your post Tony-  so First Id agree the JEWS wouldnt see the sprirtual only the shadow= natural ?

The Jews based all their things on OT teachings. They didn't have the NT. So the reason they use grapes instead of potatoes must predate Jesus.


Grapes are one of the 7 "fruits" of the promised land. The spies brought grapes with them. There is a festival celebrating the fruits.
:dontknow:

A land of wheat, and barley, and vines, and fig trees, and pomegranates; a land of oil olive, and honey;

7 the number of Completess[ FULLNESS] = HE is the PROMISED land in WHOM we DWELL- each of thse Harvests\fruits are again symbols of HIM and us partaking in HIM--- :icon_flower:

HAVING been  commanded to keep the NATURAL as they were types\shadows and Patterns of the reality--- such fruits are revealed in the NEW T :icon_flower:  maybe others can cast more light on this for you Tony-- :icon_flower:

[WhiteWings]

But none of the above explains teh spiritual meaning of grapes and/or why they where used in the Temple.

[Molly]

Grapes are the last harvest--those that remain outside the door?

[Taffy]

Grapes for mine are symbolic for BLOOD which is LIFE--- COME PASS- OVER in the time of Moses  , they were to STRIKE  BLOOD  on POSTS AND LINTEL above the door[ again others may share MORE,] but maybe that has something to do with the GRAPES above  the DOORS of Herods Temple too :icon_flower:

Gen 49:11   Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes

Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take [it] out from the sheep, or from the goats: 


Exd 12:6   And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 


Exd 12:7   And they shall take of the blood, and strike [it] on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. 

[Taffy]

Grapes are the last harvest--those that remain outside the door?

BARLEY , WHEAT then Grapes  :icon_flower: sems Paul was before his days  a partaker in\of the Barley havest

[Molly]

Grapes are the last harvest--those that remain outside the door?

BARLEY , WHEAT then Grapes  :icon_flower: sems Paul was before his days  a partaker in\of the Barley havest

Yes.  I think we are, too.  Barley, that is.

Barley is the poor man's harvest.

Matthew 5:3
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[WhiteWings]

Grapes are the last harvest--those that remain outside the door?

The last harvest I agree with.
For me the Temple is about first --> Barley

The priests had pomegrates (fruitfulness) on their garment.
Grapes possibly stands for abundance.

ענב
‛ênâb
BDB Definition:
1) grape(s)
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from an unused root probably meaning to bear fruit

[Taffy]

The priests had pomegrates (fruitfulness) on their garment.

they hung on the HEM with gold bells which sounded as they walked- as DID the High priest who enteerd the Holy of Holies - IF THOSE BELLS TINKLED they outside KNEW he was still alive-- the woman[ EVE] who touched the HEM of the lords Garment was healed of HER WOMB , Pomegrantes are FULL of seed, said to contain all the number of LAWS in the OT---keep digging Tony  :icon_flower:

[WhiteWings]

said to contain all the numberof LAWS in the OT

That myth has been debunked.

keep digging Tony

:grave:

So far I have: Bear fruit abundantly
---> Abundant guesswork.

[Taffy]

one did say IT IS SAID-  :winkgrin:

stephen Jones has writings on the three harvests-- heres one on the Barley :icon_flower:

http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/spiritual/home_study/passover.htm

[Taffy]

PS just noticed that  icon    :laughing7:    --- no! No! Ya digging ya way UP :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

http://www.biblemeanings.info/Bible/Genesis/ch9,v21-m.htm

Grapes = charity

He washed His garment in wine, and His vesture in the blood of grapes (Gen. 49:11);

for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out--to remission of sins;

:dontknow: blood -> blood of the grapes -> blood of charity (abundance)  :dontknow:

[Molly]

one did say IT IS SAID-  :winkgrin:

stephen Jones has writings on the three harvests-- heres one on the Barley :icon_flower:

http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/spiritual/home_study/passover.htm

"Each crop represents a different class of people.  The barley, which ripens first, represents the overcomers of the first resurrection; the wheat, which ripens at Pentecost, represents the rest of the believers in general; and the grapes, which are trodden down at the end of the growing season, represent the unbelievers who are judged according to their works."  The Barley Overcomers, by Stephen Jones, pg 10.

[Molly]

wow.  This is beautiful.


Thus, Gideon and his army represent the barley company, the overcomers who will inherit the promise of God at the end of this present age.  The manner in which Gideon's army defeated the enemy tells us how the overcomers of today will receive the promise.

Each of the men in Gideon's army was given a trumpet and a torch inside an earthen jar, or pitcher.  With little oxygen in the jar, the torches could only glow.  At the signal, they blew their trumpets and broke the jars, holding up the torches in the air, causing them to burst into flames.

The trumpet signifies the first resurrection of the dead at the Feast of Trumpets.  The torches within the pitchers signify the presence of God in our bodies, which are the earthen vessels.  At the appointed time, after blowing the trumpet for the first resurrection, these bodies of death will be broken, and the glory of God will burst into view, even as Jesus was transfigured before His disciples.

[WhiteWings]

(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/04images/Solomon/molten_sea_1.jpg)

^EBR1 Kings 7
25 standing upon twelve oxen, three looking northward, and three looking westward, and three looking southward, and three looking eastward, the sea, being upon them above,––all their hinder parts, being, inward.

^EBRRevelation 4
6 and, before the throne, [is] as a glassy sea, like unto crystal. And, in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, [are] four living creatures full of eyes, before and behind;

[rosered]

  wow   this is all   really good stuff   love the Gold laver  / Truth in  the purest form /clear as Crystal  setting us Free from the corruptible  body of death /sin in our flesh   , the Bronze laver being Gods judgments
  I do see what  Graham is saying

  men as gods .. that the curse of Adam  , God gave dominion /rule to Adam over the earth  only .. hummm   Jesus Christ over all = below , earth and above :)
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
Isa 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye [are] gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold [it] together.
Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be brokenSay ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
note whom blasphemed  there  the gods men  did this thing

men  giving glory to men  and NOT GOD because God was in Jesus Christ doing the works and speaking to them !  :HeartThrob:  read the rest of Ch 10 John on them works that is the Holy Spirit the Father and the Son    the 3 fold cord that cannot be Broken .. this is Emanuel  God with us
just thinking ..Ecc 4:12   And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken

 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Excellent post, WW..... :thumbsup: it never occured to me before this that when I saw Him as the whirlwind, I described it as looking like living water with GLASS or diamonds mixed in it, for lack of words. The part that made it look "alive" was FIERY life, it sparkled almost. Interesting to me that in that form, it's so similar to the description of the lake of fire. I knew the river that comes from the throne is a river of fire. The new heaven (mind of Christ) is created with this fire. Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

And the closer we get to the fire, the HOTTER it gets!

[WhiteWings]

I'm trying to connect the dots.....

- Dan 7:10 tells us about a river/stream of fire coming from God's throne -> A river coming from the holies of holies fills the laver
- Revelation speaks about  a Lake of Fire. Many rivers end in a lake. See above.
- LoF AND brimstone. Brimstone is (almost) a synonym for pure/God. So it's not about destruction.
- A better translation is Lake of THE/HIS fire --> Lake of the/His law?
- Lake has a meaning of safety not of despair and destruction
- Priests regularly purified themselves in LoF
- People in LoF are being purified and tested.

[rosered]

I'm trying to connect the dots.....

- Can't find the verse but Daniel or Isaiah wrote about a river of fire. -> A river coming from the holies of holies fills the laver
- Revelation speaks about  a Lake of Fire. Many rivers end in a lake. See above.
- LoF AND brimstone. Brimstone is (almost) a synonym for pure/God. So it's not about destruction.
- A better translation is Lake of THE/HIS fire --> Lake of the/His law?
- Lake has a meaning of safety not of despair and destruction
- Priests regularly purified themselves in LoF
- People in LoF are being purified and tested.

You have done an awesome study Bro T aka WW ...   LOVE IT  :HeartThrob:

  Here ya go its the fiery stream  from God Isa 30:33 For Tophet [is] ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made [it] deep [and] large: the pile thereof [is] fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

  I saw one night in a dream vision , had so very few of them  , but the whole  bottom was on  fire with such LIGHT and ILLUMINATION but the TOP saw clar as crystal and seen the Lord
  well it scared me to death I woke up out of sleep that night  in awe and great  fear because it seemed soooooo real to me , i cannot expline it , nor tell many of it
  but you sure remineded  of that  years ago vision thing that was real to me as anything i do awake and moving around   :HeartThrob:GOD is so awesome !

[WhiteWings]

Thanks RoseY. I added your verse to my post :thumbsup:

[rosered]

Thanks RoseY. I added your verse to my post :thumbsup:

  verses  :icon_flower:   i am a poor writer LOL  , too jumbled up , i hurry to fast ...  just get to excited  lol  :icon_flower:

one in Isaiah and in Daniel  hopefully  :gangel:

Isa 30:33 For Tophet [is] ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made [it] deep [and] large: the pile thereof [is] fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

[WhiteWings]

I'm trying to connect the dots..... continued

- Dan 7:10 tells us about a river/stream of fire coming from God's throne -> A river coming from the holies of holies fills the laver
- Revelation speaks about  a Lake of Fire. Many rivers end in a lake. See above.
- LoF AND brimstone. Brimstone is (almost) a synonym for pure/God. So it's not about destruction.
- A better translation is Lake of THE/HIS fire --> Lake of the/His law?
- Lake has a meaning of safety not of despair and destruction
- Priests regularly purified themselves in LoF
- People in LoF are being purified and tested.


The Bible speaks about a fiery law. A literal translation is "fire law".
I had a thought about this last week. What if LoF means: Be fully subjected to or submerged in the law?
LoF = law
That laws burn with brimstone. Brimstone is nearly equal to God. So the law is not just a law; it's (purifying) divine law.
Extrapolating a bit....


a. God sits in the Holies of Holies.
b. From His throne flows water. --> Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: ....
c. This water fills the Laver. -> Can be found in Jewish Temple books. (mentioned in OT?)
d. That water is symbolic for hyper refined gold. -> Jewish understanding. (mentioned in OT?)
e. Because it's said hyper refined gold is transparant and shines like a sea of glass and sparkles like fire we can replace water with fire.
f. The law of God is literally called a fire-law.
g. So the law flows from His throne and fills the Laver (LoF)
h. The lake=law burns with brimstone. The Greek word brimstone is very closely related to divine/God(ly)
i. Temple Priests daily wasted themselfs in that Laver to be purified for their Temple duties. -> Verse?
j. That washing in LoF purified them so they where allowed to enter the inner Temple complex.
k. Malachi 3:2 God sits in front of the Laver to purifies His gold. --> Tormented/tested
l. Water represents fire. Fire represents the divine law. So the Laver/LoF is filled with the divine law.
m. The goats that are cast in LoF are just young sheep that need to learn the law. here and here.

Ok I'm running out of letters :winkgrin: Whatca think?


Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Malachi 3:2 But who can abide the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire, and like fuller's soap.

[rosered]

    this is good but believe  the fiery Law  shoots out of Gods Mouth and nostrils /anger  :2c:   God is a consuming FIRE

Psa 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.


2Th 2:8   And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


Psa 57:4 My soul [is] among lions: [and] I lie [even among] them that are set on fire, [even] the sons of men, whose teeth [are] spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
just for consideration  :HeartThrob: