God has a solid form?

[Molly]

I'm not just carrying on idle conversation here or arguing for the sake of argument.

I want people to know what is possible with our Lord.

Yes, you can see him and hear him.  It is possible.

He visited with both the OT and NT saints.


4What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

6Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

7All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

8The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

--Psa 8

[WhiteWings]

I think a good start would be to figure out why some verse use GOD and others God.

I'm not sure what verses you are talking about.

All verses

I have never seen that distinction, except in the JW Bible.

Wrong JPS and KJV also have that distinction.
I want to know on what they base that distiction. (beside doctrinal bias)

[WhiteWings]

This came to me, don't know it its scriptural, but I think it is. That Jesus as God is our father in a spiritual sense because He created us.

Maybe even literally. That's one of the things I want to figure our.
BTW that would make Father a Grand Father. Unless you are prepared to read father in the genealogies as ancestor....

[Molly]

Why do we have "The LORD" in our bibles rather than Yahweh?
This is a very common question. It all began with a Jewish tradition called the "ineffable name" doctrine. Jews, for various reasons, started to substitute His name with the Hebrew title "Adonai". Adonai is the Hebrew word for "Lord". This information can be easily verified in many Bible dictionaries and various encyclopedias. For instance, the Encyclopedia Britannica states:


Yahweh, the God of the Israelites, his name being revealed to Moses as four Hebrew CONSONANTS (YHWH) CALLED THE TETRAGRAMMATON. AFTER THE EXILE (6TH CENTURY BC), and especially from the 3rd century BC on, Jews ceased to use the name Yahweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal religion through its proselytizing in the Greco-Roman world, the more common noun elohim, meaning "god," tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel's God over all others. At the same time, the divine name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual by the Hebrew word Adonai ("My Lord"), which was translated as Kyrios ("Lord") in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament.
We see in the above quote that Jews started to vocally replace the name "Yahweh" with "Adonai" (Lord) for two reasons:

1. It was beginning to be believed that His name was too sacred to be uttered

2. They preferred to simply call Him "Elohim" rather than "Yahweh" to demonstrate to the world that He is the only true Elohim.

While on the surface these reasons may seem honorable, they are very unscriptural. They were and are attempts to improve on Yahweh's already perfect ways. If Yahweh really wanted a substitute, why would He have placed His name there to begin with? Though scripture says to follow Yahweh rather than man, we find that nearly 7,000 times the most important name of all is replaced with a another word that man has chosen. 

This tradition was not practiced by the Messiah or the apostles, but it was adopted by some Christians during the early half of the 2nd Century CE/AD. By the 4th century, this practice was well established and widely practiced. Jerome, a 4th century "Church Father" who authored the Latin Vulgate version, substituted the name "Yahweh" throughout with the Latin word "Dominus" (meaning "Lord"). The tradition of replacing Yahweh's name with "the LORD" continues to this day. Most English translations substitute the name Yahweh with "the LORD" and translations into other languages will also commonly choose a title meaning "Lord" in their own language. More information on this can be found in the preface of many modern bibles.

http://www.eliyah.com/whythlrd.htm

[WhiteWings]

in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God;
2Cor 4:4


god and God are the same word, G2316,  the difference being the context.  Both mean deity in the Greek.

god
N-NSM (Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes)
Part of Speech: Noun
Case: Nominative
Number: Singular
Gender: Masculine
Nominative: Generally, the noun "that is doing something" is in the nominative, and the nominative is the dictionary form of the noun.

God
N-GSM (Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes)
Part of Speech: Noun
Case: Genitive
Number: Singular
Gender: Masculine

Genitive case is a case in which the referent of the marked noun is the possessor of the referent of another noun

So the difference in this verse is doing and having/being

I only checked a few verses but the real God in those verses is always Genetive


^{Greek LXX+# and Byz/MT NT+#} John 10
35 ει  εκεινους  ειπεν  θεους προς  ους  ο  λογος  του  θεου   εγενετο και ου  δυναται  λυθηναι  η  γραφη

[jabcat]

The Christian Bible (1991) doesn't use the term "Lord".  They state;

Lord vs. Master:  The Greek work "kurios" is the antonym (or opposite) of "slave";  and the antonym of "slave" is "master", not "lord."  So we have properly translated "kurious" as "master."

"Lord" was the name of the pagan supreme god of anglo-Saxon (Old English) mythology, and meant "bread-provider."  "Lord" worship was merged by the Catholic Church into their religion, so that they could more easily convert English pagans.

[WhiteWings]

Why do we have "The LORD" in our bibles rather than Yahweh?

I did a quick check based Gen 1:8 and and found that 9 out of 23 Bibles use Yaweh.

This is a very common question. It all began with a Jewish tradition called the "ineffable name" doctrine.

That explains nothing.
(almost) all Jews write G-d. That's not the issue here. It's about G-d, G-D and g-d.
So far it's clear to me god always referes to NOT Father or Son.
GOD is said to be Father and God the Son. Same for LORD, Lord and lord.
I think translation mistakes have been made while chosing between GOD and God

[WhiteWings]

what they hear is his voice--he is calling to them--and they hide themselves from his presence

I don't agree with that. We have to be very precise with that verse... The correct order is:
1. They hear God's footsteps.
2. They hide.
3. God calls them (and obviously they hear His voice)


^YLTGen 3
8 And they hear the sound of Jehovah God walking up and down in the garden at the breeze of the day, and the man and his wife hide themselves from the face of Jehovah God in the midst of the trees of the garden.
9 And Jehovah God calleth unto the man, and saith to him, `Where art thou?'

[Lefein]

Lord also means "Master"  :thumbsup:

In the Feudal system of economy and politics, a lord was the master over a group of serfs (who were essentially slaves).

[WhiteWings]

The Christian Bible (1991) doesn't use the term "Lord".  They state;

Lord vs. Master:  The Greek work "kurios" is the antonym (or opposite) of "slave";  and the antonym of "slave" is "master", not "lord."  So we have properly translated "kurious" as "master."

"Lord" was the name of the pagan supreme god of anglo-Saxon (Old English) mythology, and meant "bread-provider."  "Lord" worship was merged by the Catholic Church into their religion, so that they could more easily convert English pagans.

Is that from the Companion?

I think it answers nothing.
TCB is NT only; but most problems are found in OT. Assuming the OT was written in Greek would they use MASTER, Master and master?

[Molly]

LAUDAMUS te, benedicimus te, adoramus te, glorificamus te, gratias agimus tibi propter magnam gloriam tuam, Domine Deus, Rex caelestis, Deus Pater omnipotens.

WE praise Thee, we bless Thee, we adore Thee, we glorify Thee, we give Thee thanks for Thy great glory, O Lord God, heavenly King, God the Father Almighty.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLvECMpdHyc&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsU00ybw7Mg&feature=related


Domine Deus LORD God        Rex caelestis Heavenly King

Deus Pater omnipotens  God the Father Almighty

[WhiteWings]

Heresy
:laughing7:

WE with double caps and God with just one....

Keep searching and don't go off-topic. I'll be less online the next week

[reFORMer]

God was all that existed.  So, iin order for something other to exist, a vacancy had to be made in God.  This was "the lambkin slain before the down-casting of the world."  The little in the emptiness where something other is remains largely a matter of perspective.  It is still like everything is so much God that all could be considered absolute solid, without mixture: God, and anything else impossible...except for the manifestation of this cosmos He is causing, and ourselves along with it.  The molecules of this cosmos, their matter and energy, only make up about 4% of what is here.  The rest is hidden.  It's 21% dark matter and 75% dark energy.  God hides Himself.

He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. (Psalm 18¹¹; KJV)

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High [El Elyon] shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty [El Shaddai.] (Psalm 91¹; KJV)

[Molly]

Heresy
:laughing7:

WE with double caps and God with just one....

Keep searching and don't go off-topic. I'll be less online the next week

You are a hard taskmaster, ww.  Why is the word Heresy bigger than all the other words? :happygrin:

Sometimes they call him LORD [YHWH], LORD God [YHWH Elohiym], Lord [Adon, Adonai], and many other names.  I don't understand the problem. 

. They hear God's footsteps.
2. They hide.
3. God calls them (and obviously they hear His voice)

So is he a solid form?  or not?

[Molly]

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High [El Elyon] shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty [El Shaddai.] (Psalm 911; KJV)

2I will say of the LORD[YHWH] , He is my refuge and my fortress: my God[Elohiym]; in him will I trust.



9Because thou hast made the LORD[YHWH], which is my refuge, even the most High[Elyon], thy habitation;

10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

14Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

16With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation[Y'shuah].

[WhiteWings]

Sometimes they call him LORD [YHWH], LORD God [YHWH Elohiym], Lord [Adon, Adonai], and many other names.  I don't understand the problem.

I do. A big problem.
All I want to know what sometimes I read LORD and other times Lord?
If the distinction is not in the original texts I want it removed. I want a Bible not a commentary.
If it is in the originals then who is Lord and who is LORD?
 

. They hear God's footsteps.
2. They hide.
3. God calls them (and obviously they hear His voice)

So is he a solid form?  or not?

Is Jesus a dumb curly animal walking on all fours?
If yes then my answer to your question is: yes.
If no then my answer is: prove it.

[Molly]

Don't you think it is interesting how he says--

Because he has loved me, because he has known my name...I will show [him]  Y'shuah...?

"show"

H7200
ראה
râ'âh
raw-aw'
A primitive root; to see, literally or figuratively (in numerous applications, direct and implied, transitively, intransitively and causatively): - advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, look (on, one another, one on another, one upon another, out, up, upon), mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see (-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-) spy, stare, X surely, X think, view, visions.

[WhiteWings]

Yes Jesus was visible/100% human 2000 years ago. But that doesn't (dis)prove he walked in Eden. Or...?
:dontknow:

[Molly]

 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

--Col 1


"the image" [of the invisible God]

G1504
εἰκών
eikōn
i-kone'
From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.



... Christ, who is the image of God.

--2 Cor 4:4



...[the scriptures] are they which testify of me. <------

--John 5



3He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power..

--Heb 1


"exact imprint"

G5481
χαρακτήρ
charaktēr
khar-ak-tar'
From the same as G5482; a graver (the tool or the person), that is, (by implication) engraving (["character"], the figure stamped, that is, an exact copy or [figuratively] representation): - express image.

[Molly]

Yes Jesus was visible/100% human 2000 years ago. But that doesn't (dis)prove he walked in Eden. Or...?
:dontknow:

Jesus is the image of the invisible God, so if you are seeing God, you are seeing Jesus.  These scriptures above are referring to the pre-incarnate Christ.  Is that something you don't believe in--that there was a pre-incarnate Christ?

Do you really think Adam and Eve saw nothing in the garden?  Just heard spooky sounds and voices, felt and saw the results of disembodied hands?  Then how would they know who was who? The Nachash was there also, plus others.

Then why would they hide from the face of God when he comes walking in the garden?

[WhiteWings]

Molly when I asked

Is Jesus a dumb curly animal walking on all fours?

I was very serious.
Jesus is called a/the Lamb. But nobody would say Jesus is a sheep.
So we got many verses that state things that are "wrong" because they are symbolic.
Jesus isn't a sheep.
Jesus isn't a bucket of water.
Jesus isn't a loaf of bread.
Jesus isn't barley (first fruit)
Jesus isn't ......

That's my point. You can ask a 100 Greek scholars and they will tell you sheep/water/bread/fruit are good translations.
Some of the verses you showed me indeed are clear. People see Jesus. Adam and Even heard someone walk.
But how much trust can I put in that translation? Is it literal or symbolic?
When Enoch walked with God did he really walked with God.
Or was Enoch just a very good person that lived by every law God has declared.

Sure I have my idea's too. It was for a reason I started this thread and the other one about who is God and who is Jesus in the Bible.
But as we both know people also assumed fire is literal. Only a few are saved. Etc.
All assumptions...

[Molly]

24And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

--Gen 32



"Peniel"

H6439
פּניאל    פּנוּאל
penû'êl  penı̂y'êl
pen-oo-ale', pen-ee-ale'
From H6437 and H410; face of God; Penuel or Peniel, a place East of Jordan; also (as Penuel) the name of two Israelites: - Peniel, Penuel.


God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel." So he named him Israel.
--Gen 35:10

[Molly]

'The God of Bethel.'

"Bethel"

H1008
בּית־אל
bêyth-'êl
bayth-ale'
From H1004 and H410; house of God; Beth-El, a place in Palestine: - Beth-el.




13 The Lord[YHWH] stood above the stairway. He said, "I am the Lord[YHWH]. I am the God[ĕlôhı̂ym] of your grandfather Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your children after you the land on which you are lying. 14 They will be like the dust of the earth that can't be counted. They will spread out to the west and to the east. They will spread out to the north and to the south. All nations on earth will be blessed because of you and your children after you.

15 "I am with you. I will watch over you everywhere you go. And I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."

16 Jacob woke up from his sleep. Then he thought, "The Lord is certainly in this place. And I didn't even know it."

17 Jacob was afraid. He said, "How holy this place is! This must be the house of God. This is the gate of heaven."

18 Early the next morning Jacob took the stone he had placed under his head. He set it up as a pillar. And he poured oil on top of it. 19 He named that place Bethel.

--Gen 28



Gen 31

10 "Once during the mating season I had a dream. In my dream I looked up and saw male goats mating with the flock. The goats had stripes, speckles or spots.

11 "The angel of God said to me in the dream, 'Jacob.' I answered, 'Here I am.' 12 He said, 'Look up. See the male goats mating with the flock. All of them have stripes, speckles or spots. That is because I have seen everything that Laban has been doing to you.

13 " 'I am the God of Bethel. That is where you poured oil on a pillar. There you made a promise to me. Now leave this land. Go back to your own land.' "



Genesis 35
1 Then God said to Jacob, "Go up to Bethel and settle there. Build an altar there to honor me. That's where I appeared to you when you were running away from your brother Esau."

[thinktank]

This came to me, don't know it its scriptural, but I think it is. That Jesus as God is our father in a spiritual sense because He created us.

Maybe even literally. That's one of the things I want to figure our.
BTW that would make Father a Grand Father. Unless you are prepared to read father in the genealogies as ancestor....

Perhaps so in a sense. If you take out the worldly association that grandfather= weak, then perhaps grand Father is an appropriate title. Jesus said my Father is greater than all.

[Lefein]

Well, in a sense God is all around (in what ever form he may take) our Father; Jesus, Jehovah (Yahweh - The Father), or Holy Spirit.

After all, it is not as though there are three separate gods, but rather one supreme-entity in three co-existent, co-eternal, co-operative, co-interactive co-sentient/sentient expressions (trinitarily speaking, and according to my understanding).

If that makes sense any way. :happygrin: