Rob Bell, Love Wins

[Nathan]

I just got this . . .I heard Good Morning America is going to have Rob Bell on the show today to talk about a new book he's got coming out discussing the fact that hell isn't what we've been taught . . .it's already creating a huge stir in the religious groups . . .exciting times we live in . . .Pray for Rob in support of what he's doing . . .truly a mouthpiece of God's purpose and intent for this generation.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/controversial-book-debunk-concept-hell/story?id=13070964


(Gary requested a specific thread be started on this topic.  Since we had this one going, I just re-named it to the above).

[jabcat]

I was talking with Gary the other day, and he said the book coming out by Rob Bell, Love Wins, is of the same name as Gary's/TM's new sister site, lovewins.us.  He said the book is going to create quite a stir in orthodoxy, cause quite a shaking up.

I saw on another site's discussion forum that is orthodox Christian (ET) where they're already discussing it;  their take is "in the last days there will be a great falling away..giving heed to doctrines of demons" ..i.e., regarding what they describe as "the universalist slant". 

So let me get this straight.  As long as you believe in hell, you're OK?  I thought it was "call on the name of the Lord Jesus", not "believe in/call on hell, and you are saved".

Well, looks like it's going to be interesting.

[Molly]

Blogosphere erupts over Rob Bell's book

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IDLVf8Lres

[redhotmagma]

I've already gotten into some discussion on facebook when a friend posted a blurb about the book, including a guy I've never met having a long back and forth through private messages, trying to convince me of my doctrine of demons.

I shared UR with some close friends, and they were definitely skeptical, we had a little back and forth.  The next time I saw him he told me that our church was going to address UR, around when Love Wins comes out.  I already shared UR with our head pastor 2 months ago via email, but haven't received a response from him on it.  Please pray that God would move in His heart also.  Our church is very influential, in SouthEast Michigan, and has spawned a movement called E.A.C.H.,( Everyone A Chance to Hear), that is drawn 200 churches across denominational lines, and across cultural lines which is a big deal in Detroit.  The purpose is to reach everyone in southeast michigan with the gospel.  I just pray that it will be the TRUE Victorious Gospel.  I know a lot of people on here aren't big on "churches", but this could be the starting point of the restoration of Restoration.

Interestingly Rob Bell's church is in Michigan too.  Michigan looks like a hand, the Hand of God??

[jabcat]

Hi redhot.  I'm one that's "not too big" on institutionalized religion, but when God starts the full revolution of everything beginning to come back to Himself, I believe we're not going to recognize most "churches" as we now know them.  For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, As the waters cover the sea.  Habakkuk 2:14.

I don't know much about this book or about what Bell believes.  I hope he's a solid believer in the blood and work of Jesus the Messiah.  I'm kind of excited.  Could this be the beginning of something big?

[CHB]

Finally, someone willing to step out in the public and expose hell for what it is. Oh how I wish more would do this. I know though that it is all in the hands of God and he will move people when he chooses, not when I desire them to. I think this is exciting though.  :happyclap:  I don't know what else Rob Bell believes but if he believes in the salvation of all that is a major plus in my book.

CHB

[jabcat]

from www.patheos.com

Christian universalism is a bit different: Christian universalism denies pluralism and balder forms of universalism by contending that all can or will be saved, but only through the saving work of Jesus Christ. While many who advocate this fail to recognize that those in other religions simply don't believe such a thing, and in fact may say they don't want to be saved through Christ, the Christian universalist confidently trots out the idea that whether they know it or not, God saves through Jesus Christ. But the big point here is that all can and will be saved through Christ.

Evangelical universalism is newer on the block and argues that God saves exclusively through Christ and that those who deny Christ, or who have not heard of Christ, or who have rejected God's natural revelation to them, will be judged and will experience hell. In other words, these folks believe in hell – though they believe "less" (or as they might say "more") than the traditionalist. But they believe hell is not eternal but instead temporary and once one has experienced judgment for one's sins one will have, by the grace of God and through the merits of Christ, the opportunity to respond to the gospel – and this news is so good and God's offer so gracious that eventually hell will be emptied and all will find redemption in Christ to enjoy God's salvation forever.

Then there's the traditional view: those who reject Christ, and some believe God's mercy will be wide enough to include those who have never heard of Christ but have responded to the light they have comprehended (inclusivism) – and there's latitude here for variations of several sorts, will be judged on the basis of that light. For traditionalists and some inclusivists their number is few so that billions who have not responded to Christ will suffer eternal and conscious separation from God. Some inclusivists would contend that many, if not most, humans will be finally saved.

The pressing issue today is both to comprehend the absolute seriousness of the Christian claim, to realize that the ground has shifted in that many who are associated with evangelicalism simply don't believe the traditional view and have embraced some kind of universalism, and we need also to understand the options so we can all, one more time, go back to the Bible, to our church traditions, and study all over again –  as if for the first time – what to believe.

Now a word or two about Rob Bell. I don't know what Rob thinks and I won't know until I read his book. Too much of what I'm reading on the internet is speculation.

I'm grateful to God that Rob Bell is opening this after-life door and, from what I'm hearing, he's only looking inside the door to see the prospects of universalism, asking you and me to realize both that we have some thoroughly unbiblical ideas and that we need to rethink this stuff all over again. I don't expect Rob Bell to say one thing new, though I expect him to say what he says well enough to grab our attention.

[Smoogy]

I just pre-ordered the book!

Hopefully more and more people will be emerging from the woodwork to preach the victorious Gospel of Christ.

[redhotmagma]

I agree with you completely Jab about not recognizing churches.  I just think of the early church still going to the temple (not that I'm equating churches with the temple) and using that as a their base.  Just as the old was passing away, the institutionalized, and the new community based which spread like wildfire.  The new became institutionalized and now must become the old, which would be 3 periods of "church history".
1. Tabernacle/Temple which was degraded over time until the time of Christ
(3 periods Tabernacle, Solomon, Nehemiah/Herod

2. Church which was degraded over time until... manifest sons of God?, Christ returns?, millenium? Restoration of RESTORATION
(3 periods Early church, Rome, reformation)
6 periods total

3. Universal Church hopefully no degradation necessary :happy3:

There was overlap between temple and church, the early christians were mostly jews, who would equate jews now?  "churchianity" I don't say actual jews as they don't fit the pattern, they have become like the gentiles who will be brought in after all the jews are reached, as in Jesus saying He was sent to the house of Israel, and nobody reaching the gentiles (modern jews) until Paul came along.  First shall be last

[Taffy]

For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, As the waters cover the sea.  Habakkuk 2:14.

Hi James- Great scripture - as the WATERS COVER the SEA - :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

[lomarah]

WoW this is great!! My husband (ET believer but open to the idea that UR could be true) loves Rob Bell! I can't wait to share this with him!

[Miriam]

WoW this is great!! My husband (ET believer but open to the idea that UR could be true) loves Rob Bell!

Mine too. So far he's been listening politely when I talk about UR and then saying things like, "What, even Judas?"  :laughing7:

When I told him it appeared that Rob Bell was coming out as a universalist the silence was deafening.  :grin:

[thinktank]

I'm still amazed that people find this contraversial. I guess there is still a large portion of christians out there who have not heard of UR doctrine, I forget that very few in the church teach this.

[Miriam]

I forget that very few in the church teach this.

I have not heard anyone in the church teach it, ever. I'll be very interested to hear the reactions to Rob Bell.

[gky]

"I saw on another site's discussion forum that is orthodox Christian (ET) where they're already discussing it;  their take is "in the last days there will be a great falling away..giving heed to doctrines of demons" ..i.e., regarding what they describe as "the universalist slant". 

The Pharisees and Sadducees didn't get along - kind of on opposite doctrinal poles during their day ... until Jesus
came upon the scene ... then boy did they decide to "get along" and collaborate to demonize Jesus Christ and His good news.

I get a sense that a similar collaboration will take place within today's churchiantiy community. Suddenly, Armenians and
Calvanists, conservative and charasmatic, etc will unite to passionately oppose UR, readily condeming it as described by
Jabcat above.   Interesting and exciting times.  Though I'm not sure where Rob Bell personally stands exactly (in relation to UR).
I'm really looking forward to how Rob Bell's book is going to play out.

GKY

[Nathan]

I saw his dvd entitled "Everything is spiritual" you can get pieces of it off UTube . . .it was SUCH an awesome presentation.  I thank God for men like him that are a part of this, but I'm more excited that WE are SEEING with OUR OWN EYES the change that God is bringing to the religious system.  She's not going to go down without a fight, but it's not us or "a" beleif she's fighting against. 

Remember when Jesus rebuked Peter, called him satan and all of that . . .and later he did it again and told him to put his sword away . . .the church is still in that mode to where she "thinks" she's fighting FOR Christ when the reality is, she's blind toward the purposes and plans of Christ.  Peter was so distracted by the death of Jesus that he thought he was helping Jesus by protecting the Jesus HE THOUGHT he knew.  But the truth is, we don't need to defend our relationship with Jesus either.  We dont' need to fight against them, we don't need to try to turn their minds away from what they're embracing . . .all that's being asked of us is that we live in what we see.  Believe it, embrace it, plant it, share it . . .but warfare need not play a role in this one.

God IS changing the hearts of men.  There will be warfare, but not by those who have been given eyes that see.  The warfare is going to come from those who measure life according to their minds, rather than their spiritual position.  The Sabbath has come and the rules have changed.  What we are seeing is the result of those who try to live by 6-day mentality (labor and reasoning) in a Sabbath Day reality.  There will be warring . . .just remember, blessed are the peace makers.  Our authority is in the realm of peace, not panic.  Brace yourselves, the world is about to be transformed . . .and we can be on the leading edge of that should we choose to engage in the role of a midwife bringing forth a new life into this realm we live in.

[Nil Recurring]

I've had a few friends on Facebook comment on this as well, which gave me a bit of chance to plug Universalism. Some are saying the controversy will be nothing and Rob Bell won't come across as a Universalist, I hope that when the book does come out that it is strongly Universalist. I want people to be shaken up buy this!

[shawn]

I'm still amazed that people find this contraversial. I guess there is still a large portion of christians out there who have not heard of UR doctrine, I forget that very few in the church teach this.

I hadn't even heard of it anywhere until two years ago.  But, my spirit had been telling me ET wasn't correct for most of my life.

[jabcat]

I'm still amazed that people find this contraversial. I guess there is still a large portion of christians out there who have not heard of UR doctrine, I forget that very few in the church teach this.

I hadn't even heard of it anywhere until two years ago.  But, my spirit had been telling me ET wasn't correct for most of my life.

I grew up in ET church all my life.  I remember one time about 15 years ago a coworker told me he believed everyone would be saved.  Of course I pointed out a few scriptures to him about hell, etc., and he just sort of let it go.  Didn't hear another word about it until about 4 years ago, when in a bit of desperation I googled something like "is hell eternal" and I was taken to Brother J. Preston Eby's writing.  I was astounded.

[lomarah]

I told my husband about it and he wants to get the book!  :mshock:  :thumbsup:

[Nathan]

I'm still amazed that people find this contraversial. I guess there is still a large portion of christians out there who have not heard of UR doctrine, I forget that very few in the church teach this.

I hadn't even heard of it anywhere until two years ago.  But, my spirit had been telling me ET wasn't correct for most of my life.

I grew up in ET church all my life.  I remember one time about 15 years ago a coworker told me he believed everyone would be saved.  Of course I pointed out a few scriptures to him about hell, etc., and he just sort of let it go.  Didn't hear another word about it until about 4 years ago, when in a bit of desperation I googled something like "is hell eternal" and I was taken to Brother J. Preston Eby's writing.  I was astounded.

Seek and ye shall find . . . I think Rob is going to be creating a lot of thirst out there with his message of liberation.  I think it's going to cause many people to do what you also did, to get them to start searching and become hungrier for more . . .who's to say that it won't even lead a lot of people here even??  Truly exciting times to be living in!!

[jabcat]

Yep  :bigGrin:

This reviewer says Rob Bell is (probably) not a Universalist.  Others are saying he says one doesn't need to be born from above.  Things should be interesting.   :mshock:

http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/rob-bell-is-not-a-universalist-and-i-actually-read-love-wins/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gregboyd+%28Greg+Boyd+and+Christus+Victor+Ministries%29

[micah7:9]

I find religion breathless for information. I am amazed at all the impressions that The Word of God creates with the words of the Bible. Theologians and religionist and even Bible readers are painters for anyone and all who will listen to the lore.

Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world, not part of the world, but for all the world. He, Jesus is the Savior of the whole world. Not just those who play and follow a church. Jehovah is loves and His Love has no limit or boundry, should you attempt to make that wrong...you will find when you are finished that you were blessed...ultimatlly!

[shawn]

Why is it that Rob Bell's popularity concerns me a bit?  I watched some of his youtube videos and didn't really hear anything earth shattering.  Any links to online books or videos more than a couple minutes long?

[jabcat]

I didn't really know much/anything about him.  My concern is that he not be so unscripturally sound as to cast a bad light on peoples' perception of ultimate reconciliation - an "anything goes, you don't need to be spiritually re-born/come through Christ", etc. - but "oh yeah, there's no eternal hell".  But God knows what He's doing, and He'll use this or whatever else He chooses to bring about His will.   :thumbsup:

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."  I Timothy 2:4 KJV