All whom will be saved need to Repent and Believe the Gospel

[micah7:9]

:2c:  I try to almost NEVER call my self a 'universalist' or use the term universalism.  IMO, it carried too many negative assumptions.

I prefer Ultimate Reconciliation or the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ;  I believe Jesus will ultimately draw all men to Him, and that His blood and cross will eventually reach across all boundaries, all nations, and penetrate and redeem all men's hearts.   :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: :bigGrin:

[CHB]

I usually just say "I believe in the salvation of all, through Jesus Christ".

First Travis says.

"knowing that there are no good works you could ever do to earn your salvation",

Then he says.

"Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins".

There is ONE baptism that counts, that is the baptism of Jesus. We could be baptized a thousand times and it wouldn't matter one bit when it comes to our salvation.

CHB

[micah7:9]

willieH: Hi Shawn...  :cloud9:

The statement is made so that as a community UR believers can be seen as representing truth rather than some sort of new age all paths lead to God supporters.

Actually... no religious organization, nor entity has NOR gives, the "pathway" to SALVATION... for the WAY (apart from the assistance of GOD who leads to repentence, and has provided the Savior)... is UNKNOWN to man... and He must be guided to IT and upon it:

There is only ONE "PATH" that leads to Salvation... and man cannot "FIND IT" of himself 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<   :duck:  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(1) --  CHRIST  is the "WAY" -- John 14:6...

(2) -- and the "WAY" of man is not known to Him -- Prov 20:24...

(3) -- until GOD who is WORKING ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11...

(4) -- DRAGS each one to the "WAY" (WORD) -- Rom 2:4 -- John 6:44...

(5) -- and the WORD who is NO RESPECTER of PERSONS -- Acts 10:34 -- Job 34:19 & 8 others...

(6) -- then reveals the Father -- Matt 11:27...

(7) -- which causes the one REVEALED to bow at the knee and confess with the tongue -- Phil 4:10-11...

(8) -- which SAVES each one which is LOST, for ALL are LOST -- Rom 3:23...

(9) -- but are FOUND in CHRIST -- Luke 15:32 -- 1 Cor 15:22...

(10) -- each in his own order according to the working of GOD -- 1 Cor 15:23...

(11) -- who IS (not "potentially is") the SAVIOR of ALL MEN -- 1 Tim 4:10...

:boogie:

willieH  :cloud9:

And none of that I would disagree with.

:thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
And if I am allowed to give the same thought from a different veiw....there is ONE baptism. And argument?

[willieH]

willieH:  Hi brother M... :hithere:

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
And if I am allowed to give the same thought from a different veiw....there is ONE baptism. And argument?

One Lord = JESUS = YHVH  saves (the WORD)

One Faith = The faith of JESUS = YHVH  saves (the WORD)

One Baptism = The bapstism of JESUS = YHVH  saves (the WORD)

:winkgrin:  The very NAME of JESUS = IESOUS = YeHoVsHua = YHVH saves...

pEACE bro... :Peace:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Truthseeker]

All whom will be saved need to repent and believe the Gospel.

Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross, and was resurrected three days later and lives forevermore.
All whom believe on him for salvation will be saved, all whom don't shall be damned eternally in the place prepared for the devil and his angels.

You must be born again.

Flee from the wrath to come.
Acknowledge that you have sinned against a Holy God.
Repent of your unbelief, repent of your sins.
Believe on him for your salvation, knowing that there are no good works you could ever do to earn your salvation, knowing that it is a free gift from God. God, the creator of all that is visible and invisible, became a man, and died on the cross, a perfect sinless sacrifice, so that your sins could be forgiven. His name is Jesus Christ.
Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.

Spend time praying to Jesus Christ every day. The first commandment is to Love God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength. So spend time with him in prayer every day. Spend time in his written Word every day.

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Whatever gave you the idea, that people on here don't know about/ haven't done this already :dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

Hello,

I write with a big burden on my conscience to apologize for my posts written at the tenmaker forum. I would like to apologize to seekerSA, for making groundless accusations about his sincerety towards Christ. I would like to apologize to SoTW, for calling him "suspect" and making light of his views when I was not even willing to discuss them further with him. I would like to apologize to willieH, for telling him to repent and convert, over and over again and accusing him of not accepting the Gospel, when I, after some thought on what was written, understand what he was trying to tell me, that he just got a completely different view on the part that I had quoted. I would like to apolize to pneuma, for calling something he said a false teaching, when I didn't even attempt to discuss it with him at all. And I would also like to apogize to everyone at tentmaker, whom read my posts, specifically for calling it "a pit" and such other derogatory terms, especially, since I was told that many reforms had been made and many of the threads and such had been deleted, and yet, even though I was told this a couple of times, did not forgive, and still held the site accountable for writings that aren't even there anymore. This apology is sincere, and if I offended any other then please accept my apologies.

God didn't tell me to post the way I did, and though while I do feel that I have a little freedom, yet only in things that consist of charity and that I may do with good conscience. As my posts obviously lacked any bit of charity, they obviously do not leave me in good conscience and thus are merely a dead work, though, God, in his mercy, has at least even used my dead work to correct me and to learn a lesson.

Though I am left without an excuse, yet if I might attempt to come up with one it would be this. That I started too many threads at the same time and, with many discussions within the threads, I soon found that I was actually in about 20 (give or take) discussions at the same time, I had bit off more than I could chew and started lashing out in my defence. If you don't think that I'm a mature enough christian to post on the tenmaker forum, I certainly do understand, but I do ask that you shall at least forgive me in your hearts for the things I said (wrote).

God Bless

Challenger aka arcticmonster

[Quaesitor]

Hello,

I write with a big burden on my conscience to apologize for my posts written at the tenmaker forum. I would like to apologize to seekerSA, for making groundless accusations about his sincerety towards Christ. I would like to apologize to SoTW, for calling him "suspect" and making light of his views when I was not even willing to discuss them further with him. I would like to apologize to willieH, for telling him to repent and convert, over and over again and accusing him of not accepting the Gospel, when I, after some thought on what was written, understand what he was trying to tell me, that he just got a completely different view on the part that I had quoted. I would like to apolize to pneuma, for calling something he said a false teaching, when I didn't even attempt to discuss it with him at all. And I would also like to apogize to everyone at tentmaker, whom read my posts, specifically for calling it "a pit" and such other derogatory terms, especially, since I was told that many reforms had been made and many of the threads and such had been deleted, and yet, even though I was told this a couple of times, did not forgive, and still held the site accountable for writings that aren't even there anymore. This apology is sincere, and if I offended any other then please accept my apologies.

God didn't tell me to post the way I did, and though while I do feel that I have a little freedom, yet only in things that consist of charity and that I may do with good conscience. As my posts obviously lacked any bit of charity, they obviously do not leave me in good conscience and thus are merely a dead work, though, God, in his mercy, has at least even used my dead work to correct me and to learn a lesson.

Though I am left without an excuse, yet if I might attempt to come up with one it would be this. That I started too many threads at the same time and, with many discussions within the threads, I soon found that I was actually in about 20 (give or take) discussions at the same time, I had bit off more than I could chew and started lashing out in my defence. If you don't think that I'm a mature enough christian to post on the tenmaker forum, I certainly do understand, but I do ask that you shall at least forgive me in your hearts for the things I said (wrote).

God Bless

Challenger aka arcticmonster

How can one read or hear that and not feel immense love for that man?
How can one read that and not forgive?
When all mankind will be kneeing before the Lamb, naked and in shame, how can He not forgive them?
What kind of evil, insensible heart itwould it take?
Certainly, those who believe that God won't forgive every child of Him has not learned love and forgiveness yet.

[Lefein]

All whom will be saved need to repent and believe the Gospel.

You're right.  And everyone will in due time, believe the Gospel, and be saved.

[shawn]

But, my hope is universal reconciliation through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Hi Shawn ... I believe in universal reconciliation, meaning I think the Bible is clear that through the blood of Jesus Christ God reconciled the world to Himself.

However, I don't think that is the same thing as saying that all are saved ... "universal salvation."  Reconciliation and salvation are not the same thing, in my opinion.

:2c:

And that is quite possible.  Thank God I do not have to have it figured out.  I trust God's judgments.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. When He appears to them in whatever state they may find themselves in, with or without a physical body, I don't think there's any doubt they will believe, and then KNOW the gospel of good news. Blessings....

[LS]

Now, if you would LS,  ...by all means, please explain to me, the difference...  between "SALVATION" and "RECONCILIATION" ---  :dontknow: ---  In what ways are they separate, and in what ways are they DIFFERENT?

As I see it, it is 2 ways (words used) in saying that ALL SIN was accounted for by CHRIST, and this message is that which is to be ministered unto the WORLD by those who follow JESUS CHRIST...

What say you, LS?

I believe Paul distinguished between "reconciled" and "saved" in Romans 5:10: "For if while we were enemies we were RECONCILED to God through the death of his son, much more, having been reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED by his life"

I used to use the two interchangeably too ... until I realized that really isn't correct.  They are two different words in our language, translated from several words that are also very different and have very different meanings.  Paul doesn't use them as if they have the same meaning and I don't think we should either.

I'm not a teacher and I'm still studying myself.  I just think people who are sincerely seeking and searching for the truth, owe it to themselves to give this one serious consideration. Maybe you'll give it honest prayerful study and come away with your view unchanged, maybe it will be radically changed ... I don't know. I simply pray for the Holy Spirit to lead us all to His truth and protect us from being deceived.

Maybe this would be a good word study on this board   :cloud9:

[LS]

But, my hope is universal reconciliation through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Hi Shawn ... I believe in universal reconciliation, meaning I think the Bible is clear that through the blood of Jesus Christ God reconciled the world to Himself.

However, I don't think that is the same thing as saying that all are saved ... "universal salvation."  Reconciliation and salvation are not the same thing, in my opinion.

:2c:

And that is quite possible.  Thank God I do not have to have it figured out.  I trust God's judgments.

Amen bro.

[Cardinal]

Maybe this would be a good word study on this board   :cloud9:

:cloud9: Good idea....start one  :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

I believe Paul distinguished between "reconciled" and "saved" in Romans 5:10: "For if while we were enemies we were RECONCILED to God through the death of his son, much more, having been reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED by his life"

I used to use the two interchangeably too ... until I realized that really isn't correct.  They are two different words in our language, translated from several words that are also very different and have very different meanings.  Paul doesn't use them as if they have the same meaning and I don't think we should either.

I'm not a teacher and I'm still studying myself.  I just think people who are sincerely seeking and searching for the truth, owe it to themselves to give this one serious consideration. Maybe you'll give it honest prayerful study and come away with your view unchanged, maybe it will be radically changed ... I don't know. I simply pray for the Holy Spirit to lead us all to His truth and protect us from being deceived.

Maybe this would be a good word study on this board   :cloud9:

I think it's related to http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/word_studies/conciliation_and_reconciliation_6363.msg67180.html#msg67180
I also want to note it's a powerful UR verse especially if the passive voice of reconciled and saved is concidered.

Not sure but if I check the TVM in Strong I get the impression that reconcillation is an ongoing process that end in being saved.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi LS... :hithere:

Thanks for your reply...  :happygrin:

Now, if you would LS,  ...by all means, please explain to me, the difference...  between "SALVATION" and "RECONCILIATION" ---  :dontknow: ---  In what ways are they separate, and in what ways are they DIFFERENT?

As I see it, it is 2 ways (words used) in saying that ALL SIN was accounted for by CHRIST, and this message is that which is to be ministered unto the WORLD by those who follow JESUS CHRIST...

What say you, LS?

I believe Paul distinguished between "reconciled" and "saved" in Romans 5:10: "For if while we were enemies we were RECONCILED to God through the death of his son, much more, having been reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED by his life"

This certainly does NOT explain a difference between the two (which was my request)... :mnah:

For goodness sake... If I say in one place that a given thing is LARGE, and in another that it is BIG, and in another it is IMMENSE, and in another it is HUGE... I have used 4 different words in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE, which ALL imply and DESCRIBE, the same thing...

Furthermore... this (using of 2 different terms to describe the SAME THING) occurs in PAUL's writings in other subjects as well and AS I SEE IT, your vision is easily REFUTABLE due to the lack of insight toward his writings...  here are a few:

(1) --- DEATH --- That Paul used the words "SLEEP" -- 1 Thess 4:14 -- in one place, and a few WORDS LATER --- "DEAD" -- 1 Thess 4:16 -- concerning "Christians" and the resurrection... does not mean that SOME are actually SLEEPING (having a snooze) and that SOME are actually CROAKED!  Get real...

Try this one on & see how it fits:

(2)  --- "ALL MEN, and MANY"? --- Rom 5:12 -- notes that DEATH passed upon ALL MEN by ADAM... then -- Rom 5:19 -- Paul notes a FEW WORDS LATER -- that the DISOBEDIENCE of ONE (ADAM) that "MANY" were made sinners...  :dontknow:

Enough said... I have provided you with TWO witnesses, ...actually 3 when "reconciliation and salvation" are used in this same manner (use of 2 different words to describe the same thing), ...in PAUL's writings...

That we are NOW "restored" by the work of the cross (in other words, SIN is not held against us), how much MORE shall we be SAVED by that work  (SIN is not held against us)-- eh?

What it DOES say is something like this:

Now that the bill for the CAR has been paid, ...how much MORE is the car that I have been driving now MINE!

I live in MY HOUSE... and it is MY HOUSE (been living there 20years),  ...even though the MORTGAGE is yet outstanding...  :dontknow:  And when the MORTGAGE is met... HOW MUCH MORE is MY HOUSE... ah... MY HOUSE!

Think about it LS...  :idea2:

I used to use the two interchangeably too ... until I realized that really isn't correct.

You are gonna have to do [WAY  :wink2:] much better than the above noted SCRIPTURE -- Rom 5:10 -- to prove your point, as to your view as being "correct", LS...  :dontknow:  Which uses the conquering of DEATH (by reconciling) by LIFE (salvation from it) both IN ONE, realized by CHRIST -- which IS the GOSPEL message...

That you do not actually hold the TRUTH of UR as a belief, is the CHIEF barrier which confines you in this instance... making RECONCILIATION other than GOOD NEWS... and trying to separate these into TWO messages instead of the SIMPLICTY found in the TESTIMONY of YHVH -- Psalm 19:7

ONE message = we are RECONCILED by the sacrificial DEATH of CHRIST, and in the RESURRECTION to LIFE which that RECONCILATION brought, ...SAVED by it.  :boogie:

Your "vision" complicates that which is SIMPLE.  :sigh:

They are two different words in our language, translated from several words that are also very different and have very different meanings.  Paul doesn't use them as if they have the same meaning and I don't think we should either.

Oh, but he certainly DOES... If Salvation means that SIN has been PAID FOR by the Cross of CHRIST, and Reconciliation is stated to be that payment (not IMPUTING their TRESPASSES against them)... then they ARE interchangeable, and you have NOT proven your veiw to be "correct"...

2 years ago 3 doctors diagnosed me as terminal within 2yrs of CANCER...

That I had surgery a few years ago that removed CANCER from my body, RESTORED my body to being WITHOUT it (i.e. health conducive to LIFE), and within that SAME process SAVED my life...  :dontknow:

I'm not a teacher and I'm still studying myself.  I just think people who are sincerely seeking and searching for the truth, owe it to themselves to give this one serious consideration.

I agree that all that seek need to research what they "believe"... and in that way they have GAINED their own revelations from GOD, as opposed to gaining OPINIONS from other fallible human beings.  :thumbsup:  But the question remains:

So YOU PROPOSE, that there are actually TWO messages that we, as messengers of GOD are to be about bringing to the WORLD, eh?  (1) the Good News of Salvation and (2) the ministry of Reconciliation?

I see this as a confusion which you (and others) have construed, to make more difficult... the GOSPEL which is PEACE -- Rom 10:15 -- Eph 6:15 -- made by the Cross -- Col 1:20 -- and that PEACE is due to the RESTORATION (reconciliation) to GOD that was performed BY that Cross...

We have ONE MESSAGE... and that is to bring to the WORLD the PEACE of the Cross, which NOTES that He has RECONCILED us to Him, by NOT IMPUTING upon us our trespasses against Him... by the sacrifice given of His own SON... thereby establishing PEACE, and CASTING OUT FEAR -- 1 John 4:18 -- when this REVELATION is given to the one seeking REVELATION.

As long as FEAR is present in the experience... PEACE is NOT.  :dontknow:

Maybe you'll give it honest prayerful study and come away with your view unchanged, maybe it will be radically changed ... I don't know. I simply pray for the Holy Spirit to lead us all to His truth and protect us from being deceived.

I have already done so, LS... and again... until you provide substancial teaching that notes these two as DIFFERENT from one another... and NOTE where TWO independent messages are now the mandate of BELIEVERS in CHRIST... then I shall hold fast to what I believe... and teach the PEACE  within the SINGLE message of the GOSPEL  which tells the WORLD that it is RECONCILED, and RESTORED to YHVH  by the PEACE of the cross of CHRIST... Which IS DEFINITELY ...GOOD NEWS!

Maybe this would be a good word study on this board   :cloud9:

Go ahead start it up if you feel motivated to do so, ...for it is your suggestion... but be prepared for your "word study" to backfire upon you if and when you intiate it... and please don't get upset when it does...  :mshock:

:Peace:

willieH  :icon_king:

[micah7:9]

I see no difference, at least not in my understanding.

Saved G4982 sōzō   to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
Reconciled G2644 katallassō to change mutually, that is, (figuratively) to compound a difference: - reconcile.

Rom 5:10  for if, being enemies, thrwe have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life.

2Co 5:18  And the all things are of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation,

Reconcile; to make friendly again or win over to a friendly attitude (Web. New World Dict.)

Save; to rescue or preserve from harm, danger, injury, etc; make or keep safe.(Web. New World Dict.)

[Cardinal]

I believe Paul distinguished between "reconciled" and "saved" in Romans 5:10: "For if while we were enemies we were RECONCILED to God through the death of his son, much more, having been reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED by his life"

I used to use the two interchangeably too ... until I realized that really isn't correct.  They are two different words in our language, translated from several words that are also very different and have very different meanings.  Paul doesn't use them as if they have the same meaning and I don't think we should either.

:cloud9: Don't want to argue the point, but I see them as being different also. One is an outer court pattern experience, one is a Holy of Holies pattern experience. My  :2c: Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

Micah your word definitions are a bit different from the ones I have. (I use Thayer)

G2644
Reconciled
καταλλάσσω
katallassō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
1a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
1b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one
1c) to receive one into favour
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G2596 and G236
Citing in TDNT: 1:254, 40

Jesus paid in full

G4982
Saved
σώζω
sōzō
Thayer Definition:
1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction1a) one (from injury or peril)
1a1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
1b1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
1b) to save in the technical biblical sense
1b1) negatively
1b1a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
1b1b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe")
Citing in TDNT: 7:965, 1132

So I agree with LS and Cardinal. Maybe for different reasons but I believe the words are different.
Saved=end result
Reconciled is the reason why that end result could happen.
The wages of sin is death . End of story. Unless the price is payed in full...

^WWRom 5
10 for if, being enemies, we have been bought to God through the death of His Son, much more, because we have been bought , we shall be kept from harm in his life.

[LS]

Cardinal and WhiteWings, THANK YOU for your insight.  This has nagged at me for a long time, but I haven't come to place that I feel I fully grasp & understand the difference, or can express it very well ... I simply know there IS a difference. 

If either of you can go into more detail on your gleanings, I'm all ears.   :icon_flower:    (ok, those are petals, but the closest to ears that I saw!)  And I'm not here to argue either; I truly pray for understanding.

Thank you too, Micah, for taking time to look at it and share your thoughts after doing so.  Like I said, we may not agree in the end but I think it's important to look at and consider, and I appreciate hearing your view.

[micah7:9]

Just a thought I was considering; Rom 5:10  For, if being enemies we were reconciled unto God through the death of his Son, much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

I understand it to read, man was reconciled(made friendly) [i]to God[/i] through the death of his Son...

but  man is saved(delivered) by His life. (Jesus')

[Cardinal]

Cardinal and WhiteWings, THANK YOU for your insight.  This has nagged at me for a long time, but I haven't come to place that I feel I fully grasp & understand the difference, or can express it very well ... I simply know there IS a difference. 

If either of you can go into more detail on your gleanings, I'm all ears.   :icon_flower:    (ok, those are petals, but the closest to ears that I saw!)  And I'm not here to argue either; I truly pray for understanding.

Thank you too, Micah, for taking time to look at it and share your thoughts after doing so.  Like I said, we may not agree in the end but I think it's important to look at and consider, and I appreciate hearing your view.

:cloud9: I know the feeling; when things nag at me, I know it's the Spirit wanting me to investigate it. The times I've ignored that nagging feeling, He's gone to some "extreme" lengths to get my attention and compliance.  :BangHead:

Briefest way to explain it; one is covering sin, one is removing it. The words (and their meanings) are different in the Hebrew.

Personally, I hate the Greek language as I feel it has done much to obscure the meanings of passages, effectively hiding their Jewish roots, and I believe all the books were at one time written in Hebrew, since the first believers were Jewish and since one book in Hebrew exists (Matthew), that pre-dates any Greek copies. They would have found it offensive to read what they would have considered HOLY and an addition to, not a replacement of, their scriptures, in a pagan, non God-given, tongue.

Rant aside  :winkgrin:.......On the Day of Atonement (reconciliation means atonement; same root word) sins were REMOVED. The rest of the year they were only covered. The Day of Atonement is during the Feast of Tabernacles. Blessings....

[LS]

Thank you so much ... you guys rock!   :girlheart:

[jabcat]

Just a thought I was considering; Rom 5:10  For, if being enemies we were reconciled unto God through the death of his Son, much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

I understand it to read, man was reconciled(made friendly) [i]to God[/i] through the death of his Son...

but  man is saved(delivered) by His life. (Jesus')

Something lept within me when I read this.   :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Just a thought I was considering; Rom 5:10  For, if being enemies we were reconciled unto God through the death of his Son, much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

I understand it to read, man was reconciled(made friendly) [i]to God[/i] through the death of his Son...

but  man is saved(delivered) by His life. (Jesus')

Something lept within me when I read this.   :thumbsup:

I will testify that I received a twitch and a bump in my spirit as I typed. :grin: