All whom will be saved need to repent and believe the Gospel.
Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross, and was resurrected three days later and lives forevermore.
All whom believe on him for salvation will be saved, all whom don't shall be damned eternally in the place prepared for the devil and his angels.
You must be born again.
Flee from the wrath to come.
Acknowledge that you have sinned against a Holy God.
Repent of your unbelief, repent of your sins.
Believe on him for your salvation, knowing that there are no good works you could ever do to earn your salvation, knowing that it is a free gift from God. God, the creator of all that is visible and invisible, became a man, and died on the cross, a perfect sinless sacrifice, so that your sins could be forgiven. His name is Jesus Christ.
Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.
Spend time praying to Jesus Christ every day. The first commandment is to Love God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength. So spend time with him in prayer every day. Spend time in his written Word every day.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Quote from: Travis on November 19, 2010, 05:47:06 PM
All whom will be saved need to repent and believe the Gospel.
Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross, and was resurrected three days later and lives forevermore.
All whom believe on him for salvation will be saved, all whom don't shall be damned eternally in the place prepared for the devil and his angels.
You must be born again.
Flee from the wrath to come.
Acknowledge that you have sinned against a Holy God.
Repent of your unbelief, repent of your sins.
Believe on him for your salvation, knowing that there are no good works you could ever do to earn your salvation, knowing that it is a free gift from God. God, the creator of all that is visible and invisible, became a man, and died on the cross, a perfect sinless sacrifice, so that your sins could be forgiven. His name is Jesus Christ.
Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.
Spend time praying to Jesus Christ every day. The first commandment is to Love God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength. So spend time with him in prayer every day. Spend time in his written Word every day.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
You do realize that this is a universal reconciliation board right? Do you believe those of us here have never heard the gospel? Have we not heard the doctrine of firey damnation by a God who also loves agape? I choose Christ but reject man made doctrine that is not Biblically based.
My suggestion, open your heart to the truth. Read. Study. Pray for revelation in this area of your belief system.
I agree with all that apart from the place where you said "all whom don't shall be damned eternally in the place prepared for the devil and his angels".
1st Nobody really knows what this place is, and what type of punishment spirits will receive, if indeed it is even possible to live after death.
2nd Jesus has the keys of death, hell and the grave and so can indeed open up hell, if needs be
3rd There is no logical or moral explanation for simply torturing people for eternity. The punishments in the old testament are eye for an eye tooth for a tooth. So if one murders a person the punishement would be for them to be murdered, not endless punishments. A good example is Jesus. What punisment did he receive for our sins? He got crucified. So the worst punishment a person can get is crucifiction, because Jesus laid upon himself the sins of the world and his punishment was crucifiction.
4th the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin. There is no place in the bible that says, the blood atonment will only last for 2000 years. Jesus said that my word shall not pass away. That means his blood covenant stands for eternity.
5th . The bible talks a lot about eternity, but does not mean it, because of translation issues. Babylon was suppose to be destroyed for eternity, but look now and you'll find modern day Iraq
6th keep searching for the truth, universalism is a new movement or a resurection of old movements, but they do not yet have all the answers to some of these questions, there are many theories proposed, I personally have not come to a conclusion on these issues, as there is a HUGE amount to learn and it is challenging to fit all the pieces together.
But my faith is in God that he will do what is right and hopefully all will be saved somehow, even if it means going through fiery trials.
TT...I know what you mean but this gentleman may not. When you say universalism...you don't mean all relgions lead to God. I think that needs to be made clear. Often times I have seen those of the ET persuasion try to represent UR as Universalism and they are very very different.
Quote from: thinktank on November 19, 2010, 06:44:12 PM
1st Nobody really knows what this place is, and what type of punishment spirits will receive, if indeed it is even possible to live after death.
Depends on what your defenition of punishment is.
Quote"For example, the Pharisees, according to Josephus, regarded the penalty of sin as torment without end, and they stated the doctrine in unambiguous terms. They called it eirgmos aidios (eternal imprisonment) and timorion adialeipton (endless torment), while our Lord called the punishment of sin aionion kolasin (age-long chastisement).
Quote3rd There is no logical or moral explanation for simply torturing people for eternity.
Neither is there a single shred of evidence for in in the whole Bible
QuoteThe punishments in the old testament are eye for an eye tooth for a tooth. So if one murders a person the punishement would be for them to be murdered, not endless punishments.
:thumbsup:
QuoteA good example is Jesus. What punisment did he receive for our sins? He got crucified. So the worst punishment a person can get is crucifiction, because Jesus laid upon himself the sins of the world and his punishment was crucifiction.
Jesus payed in full. Even the most tiny hint we are not bought (=saved) is an insult to promise of both Father and Son.
Quote4th the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin. There is no place in the bible that says, the blood atonment will only last for 2000 years. Jesus said that my word shall not pass away. That means his blood covenant stands for eternity.
That's another nail to the ET coffin. The blood doesn't only work forward in time; but also backward in time. When did Noach, Moses, Job, Daniel, etc confess Jesus is Lord? Are the going to burn forever because the were born before Jesus?
Quote6th keep searching for the truth, universalism is a new movement or a resurection of old movements,
UR existed from the very start. Lots of proof for that.
Even Augustine didn't completly rule it out.
Quotebut they do not yet have all the answers to some of these questions, there are many theories proposed, I personally have not come to a conclusion on these issues, as there is a HUGE amount to learn and it is challenging to fit all the pieces together.
Nobody has all the pieces of the puzzle. But finding the outline of God's plan is very well possible.
QuoteBut my faith is in God that he will do what is right and hopefully all will be saved somehow, even if it means going through fiery trials.
Everybody shall be salted by fire. Salt is good.
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 07:16:43 PM
TT...I know what you mean but this gentleman may not. When you say universalism...you don't mean all relgions lead to God. I think that needs to be made clear. Often times I have seen those of the ET persuasion try to represent UR as Universalism and they are very very different.
Travis has been on this forum for years. So I think he knows this forum is Christ centered UR. Just look under the board logo at the top of this page.
Quote from: Travis on November 19, 2010, 05:47:06 PM
All whom will be saved need to repent and believe the Gospel.
Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross, and was resurrected three days later and lives forevermore.
All whom believe on him for salvation will be saved, all whom don't shall be damned eternally in the place prepared for the devil and his angels.
You must be born again.
Flee from the wrath to come.
Acknowledge that you have sinned against a Holy God.
Repent of your unbelief, repent of your sins.
Believe on him for your salvation, knowing that there are no good works you could ever do to earn your salvation, knowing that it is a free gift from God. God, the creator of all that is visible and invisible, became a man, and died on the cross, a perfect sinless sacrifice, so that your sins could be forgiven. His name is Jesus Christ.
Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.
Spend time praying to Jesus Christ every day. The first commandment is to Love God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength. So spend time with him in prayer every day. Spend time in his written Word every day.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
It is always trustworthy to confess Jesus as Lord. :thumbsup:
...as He tells us many shall say.
Quote from: Travis on November 19, 2010, 05:47:06 PM
You must be born again.
Absolutely. That is taught here.
Quote from: Travis on November 19, 2010, 05:47:06 PM
Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.
Accurate translation;
BECAUSE OF/[following/due to] the remission of your sins - not
for.
QuoteAll whom will be saved need to repent and believe the Gospel.
Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross, and was resurrected three days later and lives forevermore.
All whom believe on him for salvation will be saved, all whom don't shall be damned eternally in the place prepared for the devil and his angels.
You must be born again.
All of this is true, except that "eternally damned" is not in the Koine Greek, it is a mistranslation of the manuscripts. Aionian does not mean Eternal unless it pertains to God, and it certainly does not mean Eternal when it comes to "Kolasin aionian" - "chastening [chastening-lasting]".
QuoteFlee from the wrath to come.
Acknowledge that you have sinned against a Holy God.
Repent of your unbelief, repent of your sins.
Believe on him for your salvation, knowing that there are no good works you could ever do to earn your salvation, knowing that it is a free gift from God. God, the creator of all that is visible and invisible, became a man, and died on the cross, a perfect sinless sacrifice, so that your sins could be forgiven. His name is Jesus Christ.
Indeed we all should.
QuoteGet baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.
...are you...a member of the Church of Christ (denomination)?
QuoteSpend time praying to Jesus Christ every day. The first commandment is to Love God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength. So spend time with him in prayer every day. Spend time in his written Word every day.
This is good advice.
QuoteActs 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Indeed.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 19, 2010, 07:19:58 PM
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 07:16:43 PM
TT...I know what you mean but this gentleman may not. When you say universalism...you don't mean all relgions lead to God. I think that needs to be made clear. Often times I have seen those of the ET persuasion try to represent UR as Universalism and they are very very different.
Travis has been on this forum for years. So I think he knows this forum is Christ centered UR. Just look under the board logo at the top of this page.
I understand that. But, I think there is much confusion when UR believers describe themselves as Universalists. UR believers are not universalists and I believe that distinction needs to be made.
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 19, 2010, 07:19:58 PM
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 07:16:43 PM
TT...I know what you mean but this gentleman may not. When you say universalism...you don't mean all relgions lead to God. I think that needs to be made clear. Often times I have seen those of the ET persuasion try to represent UR as Universalism and they are very very different.
Travis has been on this forum for years. So I think he knows this forum is Christ centered UR. Just look under the board logo at the top of this page.
I understand that. But, I think there is much confusion when UR believers describe themselves as Universalists. UR believers are not universalists and I believe that distinction needs to be made.
Very true. But imo "Jesus Christ, Saviour of all men, especially those who believe" as a ministry 'slogan' is a strong hint this is not a unitrarian forum.
Most of the post on this forum mention Son, Saviour, He, Lord, etc. Also a hint. I think Travis knows all that but just doesn't agree with our conclusions.
But I agree with your point; UR is not clear enough. I think it should be called CUR. The C of Christian.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 19, 2010, 08:46:37 PM
[But I agree with your point; UR is not clear enough. I think it should be called CUR. The C of Christian.
:cloud9: Uh, maybe not the best acronym......in English, a cur is a dog of inferior or mixed breeding, and/or a person of ill repute......just sayin' :mrflo:
Cardinal: We are mostly gentiles you know... :laughing7:
1 : DOG: a dialect chiefly Britain : SHEEP DOG, WATCHDOG
We are the helpers of the Good Shepherd :laughing7:
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 19, 2010, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 19, 2010, 07:19:58 PM
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 07:16:43 PM
TT...I know what you mean but this gentleman may not. When you say universalism...you don't mean all relgions lead to God. I think that needs to be made clear. Often times I have seen those of the ET persuasion try to represent UR as Universalism and they are very very different.
Travis has been on this forum for years. So I think he knows this forum is Christ centered UR. Just look under the board logo at the top of this page.
I understand that. But, I think there is much confusion when UR believers describe themselves as Universalists. UR believers are not universalists and I believe that distinction needs to be made.
Very true. But imo "Jesus Christ, Saviour of all men, especially those who believe" as a ministry 'slogan' is a strong hint this is not a unitrarian forum.
Most of the post on this forum mention Son, Saviour, He, Lord, etc. Also a hint. I think Travis knows all that but just doesn't agree with our conclusions.
But I agree with your point; UR is not clear enough. I think it should be called CUR. The C of Christian.
I think you are missing my point. Yes, someone should be able to sort through it on this forum. But, I have seen UR guys describe themselves as universalists on numerous occasions on non UR boards. That brings a connotation that I doubt many UR guys/gals or any would want. The statement is made so that as a community UR believers can be seen as representing truth rather than some sort of new age all paths lead to God supporters.
:2c: I try to almost NEVER call my self a 'universalist' or use the term universalism. IMO, it carried too many negative assumptions.
I prefer Ultimate Reconciliation or the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ; I believe Jesus will ultimately draw all men to Him, and that His blood and cross will eventually reach across all boundaries, all nations, and penetrate and redeem all men's hearts. :thumbsup:
I simply call myself a Christian.
Doctrinal wise (if I must be asked for a resume of my beliefs) I am an Ultimate-Reconciliationist, not an Eternal Damnationalist, nor Annihiliationist; subdoctrinally I am a believer in "Applied-Arminianism", rather than "Applied-Calvinism".
Quote from: jabcat on November 19, 2010, 09:15:06 PM
:2c: I try to almost NEVER call my self a 'universalist' or use the term universalism. IMO, it carried too many negative assumptions.
I prefer Ultimate Reconciliation or the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ; I believe Jesus will ultimately draw all men to Him, and that His blood and cross will eventually reach across all boundaries, all nations, and penetrate and redeem all men's hearts. :thumbsup:
I like both of those. When the subject comes up, I make it known I do not believe in eternal torture. At this point, that is all I can say with certainty. But, my hope is universal reconciliation through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 09:58:03 PM
But, my hope is universal reconciliation through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Hi Shawn ... I believe in universal reconciliation, meaning I think the Bible is clear that through the blood of Jesus Christ God reconciled the world to Himself.
However, I don't think that is the same thing as saying that all are saved ... "universal salvation." Reconciliation and salvation are not the same thing, in my opinion.
:2c:
According to my understanding, if even one is lost, God has failed in his more ultimate will.
willieH: Hi Shawn... :cloud9:
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 09:09:16 PMThe statement is made so that as a community UR believers can be seen as representing truth rather than some sort of new age all paths lead to God supporters.
Actually... no religious organization, nor entity has NOR gives, the "pathway" to SALVATION... for the WAY (apart from the assistance of GOD who leads to repentence, and has provided the Savior)... is UNKNOWN to man... and He must be guided to IT and upon it:
There is only
ONE "
PATH" that leads to Salvation... and man cannot "FIND IT" of himself
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< :duck: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(1) --
CHRIST is the "WAY" --
John 14:6...
(2) -- and the "WAY" of man is not known to Him --
Prov 20:24...
(3) -- until GOD who is WORKING ALL THINGS --
Eph 1:11...
(4) --
DRAGS each one to the "WAY" (
WORD) --
Rom 2:4 -- John 6:44...
(5) -- and the
WORD who is NO RESPECTER of PERSONS --
Acts 10:34 -- Job 34:19 & 8 others...
(6) -- then reveals the Father --
Matt 11:27...
(7) -- which causes the one REVEALED to bow at the knee and confess with the tongue --
Phil 4:10-11...
(8) -- which SAVES each one which is LOST, for ALL are LOST --
Rom 3:23...
(9) -- but are FOUND in
CHRIST --
Luke 15:32 -- 1 Cor 15:22...
(10) -- each in his own order according to the
working of GOD --
1 Cor 15:23...
(11) -- who
IS (not "potentially is") the SAVIOR of
ALL MEN --
1 Tim 4:10...
:boogie:
willieH :cloud9:
willieH: Hi LS... :cloud9:
Quote from: LS on November 19, 2010, 10:37:29 PM
Hi Shawn ... I believe in universal reconciliation, meaning I think the Bible is clear that through the blood of Jesus Christ God reconciled the world to Himself.
However, I don't think that is the same thing as saying that all are saved ... "universal salvation." Reconciliation and salvation are not the same thing, in my opinion.
:2c:
So we are clear as to the ENGLISH:
From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of RECONCILEtransitive verb
1a : to restore to friendship or harmony <reconciled the factions> b : settle, resolve <reconcile differences>
2: to make consistent or congruous <reconcile an ideal with reality>
3: to cause to submit to or accept something unpleasant <was reconciled to hardship>
4a : to check (a financial account) against another for accuracy :dontknow:
In examining the word "
RECONCILIATION" given in the statement made by PAUL in
2 Cor 5:18-19 -- must we not consider the definitions of the word RECONCILED/RECONCILING/RECONCILIATION in the Greek? Once we have, let's examine their place in the statement:
[1] RECONCILIATION =
#2643 -- KATALLAGE (from #2644) -- exchange (fig adjustment) i.e.
RESTORATION to (the divine) FAVOR; atonement =
reconciliation[2] RECONCILED =
#G2644 --
KATALLASSO (from 2596 & 236) -- to
CHANGE MUTUALLY; i.e. compound a difference =
reconcile[3] RECONCILING =
#G2643 -- KATALLAGE -- (see above)
With these definitions in mind PAUL said:
2 Cor 18-19 --- and ALL THINGS are OF GOD, who hath ...[
2]
RECONCILED... us to Himself, by JESUS CHRIST, and hath given us the MINISTRY of ...[
1]
RECONCILIATION... to wit, that GOD was IN CHRIST, ...[
3]
RECONCILING... the
WORLD unto Himself,
not imputing their tresspasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the
WORD of ...[
1]
RECONCILIATION...
Let me now insert the meanings of these words into the text:
2 Cor 18-19 --- and ALL THINGS are OF GOD, who hath ...[
2]
CHANGED MUTUALLY... us to Himself, by JESUS CHRIST, and hath given us the MINISTRY of ...[
1]
RESTORATION... to wit, that GOD was IN CHRIST, ...[
3]
RESTORING... the
WORLD unto Himself,
not imputing their tresspasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the
WORD of ...[
1]
RESTORATION...
If in "RESTORING" to DIVINE FAVOR, ...the trespasses (SINS) are not IMPUTED (blame assigned)... and if RESTORATION has occured in this "reconciliation" and the ministry OF that "restoration" is to be taken to the WORLD, ...then,
Now, if you would
LS, ...by all means, please explain to me, the difference... between "SALVATION" and "RECONCILIATION" --- :dontknow: --- In what ways are they separate, and in what ways are they DIFFERENT?
As I see it, it is 2 ways (words used) in saying that ALL SIN was accounted for by
CHRIST, and this message is that which is to be ministered unto the WORLD by those who follow
JESUS CHRIST...
What say you,
LS?
willieH :cloud9:
The clarification was helpful to me.
I love that word restore/restoration (apocatastasis). :thumbsup:
Quote from: willieH on November 19, 2010, 11:01:55 PM
willieH: Hi Shawn... :cloud9:
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 09:09:16 PMThe statement is made so that as a community UR believers can be seen as representing truth rather than some sort of new age all paths lead to God supporters.
Actually... no religious organization, nor entity has NOR gives, the "pathway" to SALVATION... for the WAY (apart from the assistance of GOD who leads to repentence, and has provided the Savior)... is UNKNOWN to man... and He must be guided to IT and upon it:
There is only ONE "PATH" that leads to Salvation... and man cannot "FIND IT" of himself
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< :duck: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(1) -- CHRIST is the "WAY" -- John 14:6...
(2) -- and the "WAY" of man is not known to Him -- Prov 20:24...
(3) -- until GOD who is WORKING ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11...
(4) -- DRAGS each one to the "WAY" (WORD) -- Rom 2:4 -- John 6:44...
(5) -- and the WORD who is NO RESPECTER of PERSONS -- Acts 10:34 -- Job 34:19 & 8 others...
(6) -- then reveals the Father -- Matt 11:27...
(7) -- which causes the one REVEALED to bow at the knee and confess with the tongue -- Phil 4:10-11...
(8) -- which SAVES each one which is LOST, for ALL are LOST -- Rom 3:23...
(9) -- but are FOUND in CHRIST -- Luke 15:32 -- 1 Cor 15:22...
(10) -- each in his own order according to the working of GOD -- 1 Cor 15:23...
(11) -- who IS (not "potentially is") the SAVIOR of ALL MEN -- 1 Tim 4:10...
:boogie:
willieH :cloud9:
And none of that I would disagree with.
Quote from: jabcat on November 19, 2010, 09:15:06 PM
:2c: I try to almost NEVER call my self a 'universalist' or use the term universalism. IMO, it carried too many negative assumptions.
I prefer Ultimate Reconciliation or the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ; I believe Jesus will ultimately draw all men to Him, and that His blood and cross will eventually reach across all boundaries, all nations, and penetrate and redeem all men's hearts. :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: :bigGrin:
I usually just say "I believe in the salvation of all, through Jesus Christ".
First Travis says.
Quote from: Travis
"knowing that there are no good works you could ever do to earn your salvation",
Then he says.
Quote from: Travis
"Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins".
There is ONE baptism that counts, that is the baptism of Jesus. We could be baptized a thousand times and it wouldn't matter one bit when it comes to our salvation.
CHB
Quote from: shawn on November 20, 2010, 02:43:37 AM
Quote from: willieH on November 19, 2010, 11:01:55 PM
willieH: Hi Shawn... :cloud9:
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 09:09:16 PMThe statement is made so that as a community UR believers can be seen as representing truth rather than some sort of new age all paths lead to God supporters.
Actually... no religious organization, nor entity has NOR gives, the "pathway" to SALVATION... for the WAY (apart from the assistance of GOD who leads to repentence, and has provided the Savior)... is UNKNOWN to man... and He must be guided to IT and upon it:
There is only ONE "PATH" that leads to Salvation... and man cannot "FIND IT" of himself
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< :duck: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(1) -- CHRIST is the "WAY" -- John 14:6...
(2) -- and the "WAY" of man is not known to Him -- Prov 20:24...
(3) -- until GOD who is WORKING ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11...
(4) -- DRAGS each one to the "WAY" (WORD) -- Rom 2:4 -- John 6:44...
(5) -- and the WORD who is NO RESPECTER of PERSONS -- Acts 10:34 -- Job 34:19 & 8 others...
(6) -- then reveals the Father -- Matt 11:27...
(7) -- which causes the one REVEALED to bow at the knee and confess with the tongue -- Phil 4:10-11...
(8) -- which SAVES each one which is LOST, for ALL are LOST -- Rom 3:23...
(9) -- but are FOUND in CHRIST -- Luke 15:32 -- 1 Cor 15:22...
(10) -- each in his own order according to the working of GOD -- 1 Cor 15:23...
(11) -- who IS (not "potentially is") the SAVIOR of ALL MEN -- 1 Tim 4:10...
:boogie:
willieH :cloud9:
And none of that I would disagree with.
:thumbsup:
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
And if I am allowed to give the same thought from a different veiw....there is ONE baptism. And argument?
willieH: Hi brother M... :hithere:
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 20, 2010, 03:58:49 AM
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
And if I am allowed to give the same thought from a different veiw....there is ONE baptism. And argument?
One Lord =
JESUS =
YHVH saves (the
WORD)
One Faith = The faith of
JESUS =
YHVH saves (the
WORD)
One Baptism = The bapstism of
JESUS =
YHVH saves (the
WORD)
:winkgrin: The very
NAME of
JESUS =
IESOUS =
YeHoVsHua =
YHVH saves...
pEACE bro... :Peace:
...willieH :cloud9:
Quote from: Travis on November 19, 2010, 05:47:06 PM
All whom will be saved need to repent and believe the Gospel.
Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross, and was resurrected three days later and lives forevermore.
All whom believe on him for salvation will be saved, all whom don't shall be damned eternally in the place prepared for the devil and his angels.
You must be born again.
Flee from the wrath to come.
Acknowledge that you have sinned against a Holy God.
Repent of your unbelief, repent of your sins.
Believe on him for your salvation, knowing that there are no good works you could ever do to earn your salvation, knowing that it is a free gift from God. God, the creator of all that is visible and invisible, became a man, and died on the cross, a perfect sinless sacrifice, so that your sins could be forgiven. His name is Jesus Christ.
Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.
Spend time praying to Jesus Christ every day. The first commandment is to Love God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength. So spend time with him in prayer every day. Spend time in his written Word every day.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Whatever gave you the idea, that people on here don't know about/ haven't done this already :dontknow:
Quote from: Apology from ATM on July 31, 2008, 08:38:06 PM
Hello,
I write with a big burden on my conscience to apologize for my posts written at the tenmaker forum. I would like to apologize to seekerSA, for making groundless accusations about his sincerety towards Christ. I would like to apologize to SoTW, for calling him "suspect" and making light of his views when I was not even willing to discuss them further with him. I would like to apologize to willieH, for telling him to repent and convert, over and over again and accusing him of not accepting the Gospel, when I, after some thought on what was written, understand what he was trying to tell me, that he just got a completely different view on the part that I had quoted. I would like to apolize to pneuma, for calling something he said a false teaching, when I didn't even attempt to discuss it with him at all. And I would also like to apogize to everyone at tentmaker, whom read my posts, specifically for calling it "a pit" and such other derogatory terms, especially, since I was told that many reforms had been made and many of the threads and such had been deleted, and yet, even though I was told this a couple of times, did not forgive, and still held the site accountable for writings that aren't even there anymore. This apology is sincere, and if I offended any other then please accept my apologies.
God didn't tell me to post the way I did, and though while I do feel that I have a little freedom, yet only in things that consist of charity and that I may do with good conscience. As my posts obviously lacked any bit of charity, they obviously do not leave me in good conscience and thus are merely a dead work, though, God, in his mercy, has at least even used my dead work to correct me and to learn a lesson.
Though I am left without an excuse, yet if I might attempt to come up with one it would be this. That I started too many threads at the same time and, with many discussions within the threads, I soon found that I was actually in about 20 (give or take) discussions at the same time, I had bit off more than I could chew and started lashing out in my defence. If you don't think that I'm a mature enough christian to post on the tenmaker forum, I certainly do understand, but I do ask that you shall at least forgive me in your hearts for the things I said (wrote).
God Bless
Challenger aka arcticmonster
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 21, 2010, 05:05:46 PM
Quote from: Apology from ATM on July 31, 2008, 08:38:06 PM
Hello,
I write with a big burden on my conscience to apologize for my posts written at the tenmaker forum. I would like to apologize to seekerSA, for making groundless accusations about his sincerety towards Christ. I would like to apologize to SoTW, for calling him "suspect" and making light of his views when I was not even willing to discuss them further with him. I would like to apologize to willieH, for telling him to repent and convert, over and over again and accusing him of not accepting the Gospel, when I, after some thought on what was written, understand what he was trying to tell me, that he just got a completely different view on the part that I had quoted. I would like to apolize to pneuma, for calling something he said a false teaching, when I didn't even attempt to discuss it with him at all. And I would also like to apogize to everyone at tentmaker, whom read my posts, specifically for calling it "a pit" and such other derogatory terms, especially, since I was told that many reforms had been made and many of the threads and such had been deleted, and yet, even though I was told this a couple of times, did not forgive, and still held the site accountable for writings that aren't even there anymore. This apology is sincere, and if I offended any other then please accept my apologies.
God didn't tell me to post the way I did, and though while I do feel that I have a little freedom, yet only in things that consist of charity and that I may do with good conscience. As my posts obviously lacked any bit of charity, they obviously do not leave me in good conscience and thus are merely a dead work, though, God, in his mercy, has at least even used my dead work to correct me and to learn a lesson.
Though I am left without an excuse, yet if I might attempt to come up with one it would be this. That I started too many threads at the same time and, with many discussions within the threads, I soon found that I was actually in about 20 (give or take) discussions at the same time, I had bit off more than I could chew and started lashing out in my defence. If you don't think that I'm a mature enough christian to post on the tenmaker forum, I certainly do understand, but I do ask that you shall at least forgive me in your hearts for the things I said (wrote).
God Bless
Challenger aka arcticmonster
How can one read or hear that and not feel immense love for that man?
How can one read that and not forgive?
When all mankind will be kneeing before the Lamb, naked and in shame, how can He not forgive them?
What kind of evil, insensible heart itwould it take?
Certainly, those who believe that God won't forgive every child of Him has not learned love and forgiveness yet.
QuoteAll whom will be saved need to repent and believe the Gospel.
You're right. And everyone will in due time, believe the Gospel, and be saved.
Quote from: LS on November 19, 2010, 10:37:29 PM
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 09:58:03 PM
But, my hope is universal reconciliation through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Hi Shawn ... I believe in universal reconciliation, meaning I think the Bible is clear that through the blood of Jesus Christ God reconciled the world to Himself.
However, I don't think that is the same thing as saying that all are saved ... "universal salvation." Reconciliation and salvation are not the same thing, in my opinion.
:2c:
And that is quite possible. Thank God I do not have to have it figured out. I trust God's judgments.
:cloud9: The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. When He appears to them in whatever state they may find themselves in, with or without a physical body, I don't think there's any doubt they will believe, and then KNOW the gospel of good news. Blessings....
Quote from: willieH on November 19, 2010, 11:38:03 PM
Now, if you would LS, ...by all means, please explain to me, the difference... between "SALVATION" and "RECONCILIATION" --- :dontknow: --- In what ways are they separate, and in what ways are they DIFFERENT?
As I see it, it is 2 ways (words used) in saying that ALL SIN was accounted for by CHRIST, and this message is that which is to be ministered unto the WORLD by those who follow JESUS CHRIST...
What say you, LS?
I believe Paul distinguished between "reconciled" and "saved" in Romans 5:10: "For if while we were enemies we were RECONCILED to God through the death of his son, much more, having been reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED by his life"
I used to use the two interchangeably too ... until I realized that really isn't correct. They are two different words in our language, translated from several words that are also very different and have very different meanings. Paul doesn't use them as if they have the same meaning and I don't think we should either.
I'm not a teacher and I'm still studying myself. I just think people who are sincerely seeking and searching for the truth, owe it to themselves to give this one serious consideration. Maybe you'll give it honest prayerful study and come away with your view unchanged, maybe it will be radically changed ... I don't know. I simply pray for the Holy Spirit to lead us all to His truth and protect us from being deceived.
Maybe this would be a good word study on this board :cloud9:
Quote from: shawn on November 21, 2010, 10:24:40 PM
Quote from: LS on November 19, 2010, 10:37:29 PM
Quote from: shawn on November 19, 2010, 09:58:03 PM
But, my hope is universal reconciliation through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Hi Shawn ... I believe in universal reconciliation, meaning I think the Bible is clear that through the blood of Jesus Christ God reconciled the world to Himself.
However, I don't think that is the same thing as saying that all are saved ... "universal salvation." Reconciliation and salvation are not the same thing, in my opinion.
:2c:
And that is quite possible. Thank God I do not have to have it figured out. I trust God's judgments.
Amen bro.
Quote from: LS on November 22, 2010, 01:08:43 AM
Maybe this would be a good word study on this board :cloud9:
:cloud9: Good idea....start one :thumbsup:
Quote from: LS on November 22, 2010, 01:08:43 AM
I believe Paul distinguished between "reconciled" and "saved" in Romans 5:10: "For if while we were enemies we were RECONCILED to God through the death of his son, much more, having been reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED by his life"
I used to use the two interchangeably too ... until I realized that really isn't correct. They are two different words in our language, translated from several words that are also very different and have very different meanings. Paul doesn't use them as if they have the same meaning and I don't think we should either.
I'm not a teacher and I'm still studying myself. I just think people who are sincerely seeking and searching for the truth, owe it to themselves to give this one serious consideration. Maybe you'll give it honest prayerful study and come away with your view unchanged, maybe it will be radically changed ... I don't know. I simply pray for the Holy Spirit to lead us all to His truth and protect us from being deceived.
Maybe this would be a good word study on this board :cloud9:
I think it's related to http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/word_studies/conciliation_and_reconciliation_6363.msg67180.html#msg67180
I also want to note it's a powerful UR verse especially if the
passive voice of reconciled and saved is concidered.
Not sure but if I check the TVM in Strong I get the impression that reconcillation is an ongoing process that end in being saved.
willieH: Hi LS... :hithere:
Thanks for your reply... :happygrin:
Quote from: LS on November 22, 2010, 01:08:43 AM
Quote from: willieH on November 19, 2010, 11:38:03 PM
Now, if you would LS, ...by all means, please explain to me, the difference... between "SALVATION" and "RECONCILIATION" --- :dontknow: --- In what ways are they separate, and in what ways are they DIFFERENT?
As I see it, it is 2 ways (words used) in saying that ALL SIN was accounted for by CHRIST, and this message is that which is to be ministered unto the WORLD by those who follow JESUS CHRIST...
What say you, LS?
I believe Paul distinguished between "reconciled" and "saved" in Romans 5:10: "For if while we were enemies we were RECONCILED to God through the death of his son, much more, having been reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED by his life"
This certainly does NOT explain a
difference between the two (which was my request)... :mnah:
For goodness sake... If I say in one place that a given thing is
LARGE, and in another that it is
BIG, and in another it is
IMMENSE, and in another it is
HUGE... I have used 4 different words in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE, which ALL imply and DESCRIBE, the
same thing...
Furthermore... this (using of 2 different terms to describe the SAME THING) occurs in PAUL's writings in other subjects as well and AS I SEE IT, your vision is easily REFUTABLE due to the lack of insight toward his writings... here are a few:
(1) ---
DEATH --- That Paul used the words "SLEEP" --
1 Thess 4:14 -- in one place, and a few WORDS LATER --- "DEAD" --
1 Thess 4:16 -- concerning "Christians" and the resurrection... does not mean that SOME are actually SLEEPING (having a snooze) and that SOME are actually CROAKED! Get real...
Try this one on & see how it fits:
(2) --- "
ALL MEN, and
MANY"? ---
Rom 5:12 -- notes that DEATH passed upon
ALL MEN by ADAM... then --
Rom 5:19 -- Paul notes a FEW WORDS LATER -- that the DISOBEDIENCE of ONE (ADAM) that "
MANY" were made sinners... :dontknow:
Enough said... I have provided you with TWO witnesses, ...actually 3 when "reconciliation and salvation" are used in this same manner (use of 2 different words to describe the same thing), ...in PAUL's writings...
That we are NOW "
restored" by the work of the cross (in other words, SIN is not held against us), how much MORE shall we be
SAVED by that work (SIN is not held against us)-- eh?
What it
DOES say is something like this:
Now that the
bill for the CAR has been paid, ...how much MORE is the car that I have been driving now MINE!
I live in MY HOUSE... and it is MY HOUSE (been living there 20years), ...even though the MORTGAGE is yet outstanding... :dontknow: And when the MORTGAGE is met... HOW MUCH MORE is MY HOUSE... ah... MY HOUSE!
Think about it LS... :idea2:
Quote from: LS on November 22, 2010, 01:08:43 AMI used to use the two interchangeably too ... until I realized that really isn't correct.
You are gonna have to do [WAY :wink2:] much better than the above noted SCRIPTURE --
Rom 5:10 -- to prove your point, as to your view as being "correct",
LS... :dontknow: Which uses the conquering of DEATH (by reconciling) by LIFE (salvation from it) both IN ONE, realized by
CHRIST -- which IS the
GOSPEL message...
That you do not actually hold the TRUTH of UR as a belief, is the CHIEF barrier which confines you in this instance... making RECONCILIATION other than GOOD NEWS... and trying to separate these into TWO messages instead of the SIMPLICTY found in the TESTIMONY of
YHVH --
Psalm 19:7ONE message = we are RECONCILED by the sacrificial DEATH of
CHRIST, and in the RESURRECTION to LIFE which that RECONCILATION brought, ...SAVED by it. :boogie:
Your "vision" complicates that which is SIMPLE. :sigh:
Quote from: LS on November 22, 2010, 01:08:43 AMThey are two different words in our language, translated from several words that are also very different and have very different meanings. Paul doesn't use them as if they have the same meaning and I don't think we should either.
Oh, but he certainly DOES... If Salvation means that SIN has been PAID FOR by the Cross of
CHRIST, and Reconciliation is stated to be that payment (not IMPUTING their TRESPASSES against them)... then they ARE interchangeable, and you have NOT proven your veiw to be "correct"...
2 years ago 3 doctors diagnosed me as terminal within 2yrs of CANCER...
That I had surgery a few years ago that removed CANCER from my body,
RESTORED my body to being WITHOUT it (i.e. health conducive to LIFE), and within that
SAME process
SAVED my life... :dontknow:
Quote from: LS on November 22, 2010, 01:08:43 AMI'm not a teacher and I'm still studying myself. I just think people who are sincerely seeking and searching for the truth, owe it to themselves to give this one serious consideration.
I agree that all that seek need to research what they "believe"... and in that way they have GAINED their own revelations from GOD, as opposed to gaining OPINIONS from other fallible human beings. :thumbsup: But the question remains:
So YOU PROPOSE, that there are actually TWO messages that we, as messengers of GOD are to be about bringing to the WORLD, eh? (1) the Good News of Salvation and (2) the ministry of Reconciliation?
I see this as a confusion which
you (and others) have construed, to make more difficult... the
GOSPEL which is
PEACE --
Rom 10:15 -- Eph 6:15 -- made by the Cross --
Col 1:20 -- and that
PEACE is due to the RESTORATION (reconciliation) to GOD that was performed BY that Cross...
We have ONE MESSAGE... and that is to bring to the WORLD the
PEACE of the Cross, which NOTES that He has RECONCILED us to Him, by NOT IMPUTING upon us our trespasses against Him... by the sacrifice given of His own SON... thereby establishing
PEACE, and CASTING
OUT FEAR --
1 John 4:18 -- when this REVELATION is given to the one seeking REVELATION.
As long as FEAR is present in the experience...
PEACE is NOT. :dontknow:
Quote from: LS on November 22, 2010, 01:08:43 AMMaybe you'll give it honest prayerful study and come away with your view unchanged, maybe it will be radically changed ... I don't know. I simply pray for the Holy Spirit to lead us all to His truth and protect us from being deceived.
I have already done so, LS... and again... until you provide substancial teaching that notes these two as DIFFERENT from one another... and NOTE where TWO independent messages are now the mandate of BELIEVERS in
CHRIST... then I shall hold fast to what I believe... and teach the
PEACE within the SINGLE message of the
GOSPEL which tells the
WORLD that it is RECONCILED, and RESTORED to
YHVH by the
PEACE of the cross of
CHRIST... Which IS DEFINITELY ...
GOOD NEWS!Quote from: LS on November 22, 2010, 01:08:43 AMMaybe this would be a good word study on this board :cloud9:
Go ahead start it up if you feel motivated to do so, ...for it is your suggestion... but be prepared for your "word study" to backfire upon you if and when you intiate it... and please don't get upset when it does... :mshock:
:Peace:
willieH :icon_king:
I see no difference, at least not in my understanding.
Saved G4982 sōzō to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
Reconciled G2644 katallassō to change mutually, that is, (figuratively) to compound a difference: - reconcile.
Rom 5:10 for if, being enemies, thrwe have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life.
2Co 5:18 And the all things are of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation,
Reconcile; to make friendly again or win over to a friendly attitude (Web. New World Dict.)
Save; to rescue or preserve from harm, danger, injury, etc; make or keep safe.(Web. New World Dict.)
Quote from: LS on November 22, 2010, 01:08:43 AM
I believe Paul distinguished between "reconciled" and "saved" in Romans 5:10: "For if while we were enemies we were RECONCILED to God through the death of his son, much more, having been reconciled, we SHALL BE SAVED by his life"
I used to use the two interchangeably too ... until I realized that really isn't correct. They are two different words in our language, translated from several words that are also very different and have very different meanings. Paul doesn't use them as if they have the same meaning and I don't think we should either.
:cloud9: Don't want to argue the point, but I see them as being different also. One is an outer court pattern experience, one is a Holy of Holies pattern experience. My :2c: Blessings....
Micah your word definitions are a bit different from the ones I have. (I use Thayer)
G2644
Reconciled
καταλλάσσω
katallassō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
1a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
1b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one
1c) to receive one into favour
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G2596 and G236
Citing in TDNT: 1:254, 40
Jesus paid in full
G4982
Saved
σώζω
sōzō
Thayer Definition:
1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction1a) one (from injury or peril)
1a1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
1b1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
1b) to save in the technical biblical sense
1b1) negatively
1b1a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
1b1b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe")
Citing in TDNT: 7:965, 1132
So I agree with LS and Cardinal. Maybe for different reasons but I believe the words are different.
Saved=end result
Reconciled is the reason why that end result could happen.
The wages of sin is death . End of story. Unless the price is payed in full...
WWRom 5
10 for if, being enemies, we have been bought to God through the death of His Son, much more, because we have been bought , we shall be kept from harm in his life.
Cardinal and WhiteWings, THANK YOU for your insight. This has nagged at me for a long time, but I haven't come to place that I feel I fully grasp & understand the difference, or can express it very well ... I simply know there IS a difference.
If either of you can go into more detail on your gleanings, I'm all ears. :icon_flower: (ok, those are petals, but the closest to ears that I saw!) And I'm not here to argue either; I truly pray for understanding.
Thank you too, Micah, for taking time to look at it and share your thoughts after doing so. Like I said, we may not agree in the end but I think it's important to look at and consider, and I appreciate hearing your view.
Just a thought I was considering; Rom 5:10 For, if being enemies we were reconciled unto God through the death of his Son, much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
I understand it to read, man was reconciled(made friendly) [i]to God[/i] through the death of his Son...
but man is saved(delivered) by His life. (Jesus')
Quote from: LS on November 23, 2010, 03:49:44 PM
Cardinal and WhiteWings, THANK YOU for your insight. This has nagged at me for a long time, but I haven't come to place that I feel I fully grasp & understand the difference, or can express it very well ... I simply know there IS a difference.
If either of you can go into more detail on your gleanings, I'm all ears. :icon_flower: (ok, those are petals, but the closest to ears that I saw!) And I'm not here to argue either; I truly pray for understanding.
Thank you too, Micah, for taking time to look at it and share your thoughts after doing so. Like I said, we may not agree in the end but I think it's important to look at and consider, and I appreciate hearing your view.
:cloud9: I know the feeling; when things nag at me, I know it's the Spirit wanting me to investigate it. The times I've ignored that nagging feeling, He's gone to some "extreme" lengths to get my attention and compliance. :BangHead:
Briefest way to explain it; one is covering sin, one is removing it. The words (and their meanings) are different in the Hebrew.
Personally, I hate the Greek language as I feel it has done much to obscure the meanings of passages, effectively hiding their Jewish roots, and I believe all the books were at one time written in Hebrew, since the first believers were Jewish and since one book in Hebrew exists (Matthew), that pre-dates any Greek copies. They would have found it offensive to read what they would have considered HOLY and an addition to, not a replacement of, their scriptures, in a pagan, non God-given, tongue.
Rant aside :winkgrin:.......On the Day of Atonement (reconciliation means atonement; same root word) sins were REMOVED. The rest of the year they were only covered. The Day of Atonement is during the Feast of Tabernacles. Blessings....
Thank you so much ... you guys rock! :girlheart:
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 23, 2010, 04:46:40 PM
Just a thought I was considering; Rom 5:10 For, if being enemies we were reconciled unto God through the death of his Son, much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
I understand it to read, man was reconciled(made friendly) [i]to God[/i] through the death of his Son...
but man is saved(delivered) by His life. (Jesus')
Something lept within me when I read this. :thumbsup:
Quote from: jabcat on November 23, 2010, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 23, 2010, 04:46:40 PM
Just a thought I was considering; Rom 5:10 For, if being enemies we were reconciled unto God through the death of his Son, much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
I understand it to read, man was reconciled(made friendly) [i]to God[/i] through the death of his Son...
but man is saved(delivered) by His life. (Jesus')
Something lept within me when I read this. :thumbsup:
I will testify that I received a twitch and a bump in my spirit as I typed. :grin:
Quote from: jabcat on November 23, 2010, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 23, 2010, 04:46:40 PM
Just a thought I was considering; Rom 5:10 For, if being enemies we were reconciled unto God through the death of his Son, much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
I understand it to read, man was reconciled(made friendly) [i]to God[/i] through the death of his Son...
but man is saved(delivered) by His life. (Jesus')
Something lept within me when I read this. :thumbsup:
Anyone is welcome to believe what they wish... :happygrin: But, just because the ISLAMIC faith believes the name of God is ALLAH, does not make it so...
Still the fact remains... the TWO are still the same, and the MINISTRY both is ONE message... and the TWO are interchangeable parts of the same PROCESS contained in the CROSS which RESTORED man to His Maker.
Because we are RECONCILED we are SAVED... we are SAVED because we are RECONCILED... :dontknow:
willieH :cloud9:
Quote from: willieH on November 24, 2010, 01:03:46 AM
Quote from: jabcat on November 23, 2010, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 23, 2010, 04:46:40 PM
Just a thought I was considering; Rom 5:10 For, if being enemies we were reconciled unto God through the death of his Son, much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
I understand it to read, man was reconciled(made friendly) [i]to God[/i] through the death of his Son...
but man is saved(delivered) by His life. (Jesus')
Something lept within me when I read this. :thumbsup:
Anyone is welcome to believe what they wish... :happygrin: But, just because the ISLAMIC faith believes the name of God is ALLAH, does not make it so...
Still the fact remains... the TWO are still the same, and the MINISTRY both is ONE message... and the TWO are interchangeable parts of the same PROCESS contained in the CROSS which RESTORED man to His Maker.
Because we are RECONCILED we are SAVED... we are SAVED because we are RECONCILED... :dontknow:
willieH :cloud9:
But the faith of Islam does make the name of Islams God Allah does it not?
Dont quite understand the last half of the post?
Allah, is actually the name of God based on the Arabic language, not the religion itself. Allah was actually the name of the moon god of pagan-arabia, from which Mohammed originated.
Al, is a cognate of El, and comes from a similar linguistic root, since Arabic is a relative to the Semitic language Hebrew. El, Eloah is the general word for a god, or deity - Elohim the plural form of that. Baal even was called El by his followers.
It is my opinion, that people should not be such strict Hebraists when it comes to the name of God...
Many Christians in Islamic countries call God the Father Allah.
People get their pants in such a high strung, legalistic bunch when they get all concerned over what language God's true name is rendered in, condemning the use of Jesus, Jehohva, or Iesous as unholy, or vile, or wrong, or blasphemous - just because it isn't Yahushua, or Yahweh, or YHVH.
It irks me a bit when people worship the physical name of God over the actual Name - container of essence of God.
The Holy Spirit speaks in many tongues of angels and men - God owns all the languages (remember Babel?), and God's language isn't "Hebrew", his language is his very own Spirit that speaks to the heart.
I'd say, that the true-true rendering of I AM, or his name, what ever name that may be that is his own absolute name of awesomeness...No one on Earth knows, and no language spoken by our fleshy, clay tongues could ever so beautifully speak. If we spoke his name, we'd butcher it with our barbaric mouths just by trying...
Only God knows his name. YHVH is only one of his names, written in only one language of men.
Re 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And if I can be so bold...I think God loves it when we his little children give him a personal, reverential, child-to-father nickname. Just as he gives us a name on a white stone that only we know;
Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].
Perhaps we give to him a "true-name" as well, that only he knows, a name that is "just between us daddy of mine". God is such a sweet father, he loves our offerings, especially our favourite names for him that we might make - being creative like our own father.
I think the point is that just because one says they worship a deity, doesn't mean it is the Father in the bible. Jesus said no man comes to the father except through me. So who are these other religions worshipping? There is danger of false gods wearing the crown of God, when they are no Gods.
If one calls upon Elvis Presley its unlikely they are going to get a response from the father.
:2c: