Eternity

[thinktank]

To me no time means time stops. IF there is no time then there is nothing in existence, nothing happening, except God existing in peacefull tranquility.

If there is no time, then everything happens at the exact same time. Im typing this while at the exact same time, Jesus is returning to earth, while at the same time he is being born by the virgin Mary, while also preaching at Gethsame. Is that what you guys are saying that everything has already happened in another dimension and we switch back and forth to each dimension, so it seems as if time is passing.  :dontknow:

[Molly]

Your saying as far as your vision is concerned time and darkness dies, stops and is no more at a certain place?

When might that be?

At the speed of light.  On the seventh day.


After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

--Mat 17

[willieH]

willieH: Hi EW... :hithere:

As always your posts are entertaining and thought provoking... as well as naming as possibilities --- those things (at present) you consider and admit you do not "know" (convinced one way or the other),  ...which is a commendable exercise in honesty!  :thumbsup:

We know not yet what we shall be, but we know that when He appears we shall be like Him, for we will see Him as He is...

1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

These statements are pretty clear to me... and as I see it... to "KNOW" as we are "KNOWN" is in --- COMPLETENESS --- which is the definition of the word PERFECT...  Something PERFECT is not in need of any change or modification, for it is in a state which if altered, can no longer be considered COMPLETE... it cannot have anything "taken away" for it becomes LESS than PERFECT and it cannot be "added" to because something which is COMPLETE cannot be improved or enhanced.

When the cup is FULL adding to it is futile for it's capacity is met... when the cup is EMPTIED in even the slightest increment, it is no longer FULL.

Was there time before Adam "ate and died"? Of course there was, because the Word defines the creation as a process of "days".

The following is quite a mouthful (apologies ahead of "time"), hope you will bear with me, as the subject of ETERNITY is not a "brief" proposition   :laughing7:

FIRST --- As I see it, there is assumption here... "was there a TIME" before Adam?  NO... there was NOW.  NOW is not TIME, ...NOW is existence.  TIME is a quantity of measurement.  Actually, when it comes down to it... ONLY "NOW" truly EXISTS... for the quantities of "TIME" which are considered PAST are INACCESSIBLE for they no longer are "NOW"... and the quantities of "TIME" which are considered FUTURE are AS INACCESSIBLE, for they are YET ot be "NOW"... the FUTURE, as soon as "NOW" arrives IN IT... decomposes to being the PAST...

SECOND --- the "process of DAYS"... begins with the FIRST DAY... and IN that designation (1st), is noted that there were NO "DAYS" before it, otherwise it is UNTRUTHFUL to name it the FIRST DAY... also, the Scripture notes (in several places -- John 6:44 -- John 6:39) that there shall be a "LAST DAY"... again, ...IN that designation (last) is noted that there shall be NO DAYS which follow it... otherwise it is also UNTRUTHFUL to name it the "LAST DAY", when other "days" shall follow it.

THIRD --- and certainly NOT LEAST in the considerations of "DAYS" ...there is also to be considered the "DAY of YHVH"... (which is the SABBATH), and the "DAY" (which I believe to be the SABBATH)... in which ALL GENERATIONS appear -- Gen 2:4

Though it may be argued by some, ...as I see it, the SABBATH is clearly paralleled with JESUS CHRIST... and the designations of "SABBATH" and "DAY" concerning Him, ... is the ETERNAL enlightenment of the REVELATION of Him, which contains the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL... There is NO DARKNESS in the knowledge of EVIL, for it is KNOWLEDGE which enlightens the KNOWER of GOOD... and identifies it by its (eternally) existent (albeit, sorrow filled) information.

It is LIGHT to KNOW this information, for it's source is YHVH in which there is NO "DARKNESS" (unenlightenment)... so as I see it, YHVH Himself and the WORD which proceeds from Him, are the "DAY" in which ALL Generations appear, as well as the "DAY" He has called His own -- Isaiah 58:13 -- as did the Son note Himself as Lord of it -- Matt 12:8 -- Mark 2:28

The SABBATH... is that in which REST is COMPLETE in the REVELATION of the PERFECT KNOWLEDGE of YHVH which He has shared with ALL... thereby being ALL in ALL...

Another interesting aspect to consider is that the SABBATH has no "beginning or ending" characteristics, for NO "evening or morning" is noted about it, neither is a creation aspect attributed to it, for "IN SIX DAYS, God CREATED the heavens and the earth" -- Ex 20:11 -- not in SEVEN.

The only reason I make that point is because some people try to define time in terms of death and see all that is finite as a result of death, and the eternal as a result of redemption, re-connection to the infinite God,... but I like the idea that the finite is the result of creation. Before God created, there was only God outside time, eternal.

I differ a bit with this bro, ...for ALL the SONS of GOD were present, in and at the founding moments of Creation (which in part contained the progression of TIME) -- Job 38:7 -- these observers which SHOUTED, had to EXIST in order to "SHOUT".  :dontknow:

The Creation is the REVEALING of things within the WORD of YHVH, which were withheld by Him... The REVELATION is the resulting manifestation (in LIVING terms) of contained information within YHVH, which in the ETERNAL setting, had NOT found expression by YHVH.  THIS (time and all contained in it) is that LIVING "expression"... which has both the boundaries of BEGINNING and END...

Each of those parameters which define and confine this "expression" (first DAY, last DAY), are found IN the WORD as well -- Rev 1:8 -- even though the WORD itself has neither, the KNOWLEDGE expressed BY and OF the WORD concerning the identifying aspects of Good and Evil, ...DOES!

Once He created, were there finite divisions of Himself? Was Adam, "eternal" before he died? Or will our eventual reunion with Him in the "all in all" be a revelation of an indivisible union with eternity/infinity in YHWH?

The Creation (again, as I see it), was not YHVH bringing into being something from nothing.  It was Him EXPRESSING the knowledge within Himself... by REVEALING it in LIVING terms.  That He noted ALL before ANY of it occured, meant that it was ALREADY existent IN HIM -- Acts 17:28 --

The Creation (as I see it), is not something that "came into being"... it was something that ALWAYS existed IN the heart of YHVH, ...and was UNREVEALED to the existent beings which share ETERNITY (because of YHVH's existance) with YHVH. 

Anything emergent of YHVH (infinite source) cannot be other than infinite, for said things are emergent of the infinite. 

EXAMPLE --- If one takes a container and dips it into a POT of molten metal (YHVH)... the container shall still contain molten metal.  The contents (MAN) of the (smaller) container will not have ANY characteristics which are not present in the contents of the POT.

The doings of the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL in time, are FOREVER KNOWN by all which observed the events of TIME, or partook of them within TIME...

Do we become infinite?

I do not think so... I believe the opposite is true... we "became", by the expression of YHVH, finite by His insertion of us into a finite scenario (time).   I believe we have ALWAYS BEEN... and that -- Job 38:7 and Luke 15:11-32 -- testify of the fact that we as "SONS" were with the Father, ...left Him into a FAR COUNTRY (time), and then RETURNED to where we were... ALL of this is amidst ETERNITY, which existed prior, during and after TIME ran its course.

As I see it, ...In the parable of the "LOST Son" it is significant to note that the SON suggested to YHVH that he be given HIS portion (and YHVH complied) -- Luke 15:12 -- Elsewhere in the WORD of TRUTH, the Scriptures clearly note, that NO ONE "advises" GOD -- Isaiah 40:13 -- Eph 1:11 -- and GOD does NOT comply with that which has emerged from Him, ...that which emerges from Him, is that which "complies" with HIM.

That it appears that YHVH submitted to his "son's" request, does not mean that the request originated from the son.  For the SON as an emergent from YHVH, included the request as part of his existence, which IS ordered by YHVH in its totality. 

Which in turn means, that the "suggestion" which proceeded from the "LOST SON", had to have come from YHVH's inspiration of him... and was PURPOSED by the time of the conclusion of that "suggestion" (he going into the "far country"/time, wasting himself and his giftings)...  to enlighten BOTH SONS, of individual things they BOTH needed to learn. (the elder son was also corrected of his jealousies, by the enlightenment of the LOVE of YHVH, which he in part being inhibited by those "jealousies" ...was "devoid" of -- Luke 15:28-32

Though many shall likely object to this thinking, ...ALL are destined to "comply" forever with the WILL of YHVH in the ETERNAL, ...FOREVER... so get used to it...  :winkgrin:

Or are we as many finite parts of that which is infinite? Or is anything that is part of the infinite, itself infinite? Wow, mind boggling stuff to consider :o), and I don't have the answer, but I can't wait to find out !

More great ponderings bro... I think that I have already given my view of these last questions, above...  :thumbsup:

:Peace:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Beloved Servant]

For yourselves know perfectly that The Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

And then time stops?

EYE HAS NOT SEEN, NOR EAR HEARD, NOR HAVE ENTERED INTO THE HEART OF MAN THE THINGS WHICH GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM.
1 CORINTHIANS 2:9

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: @ Willie  :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Has time stopped here?
Psa 102:27  But, thou, art, the same,—And, thy years, shall have no end:
Or here?

Isa 9:7  Of the increase of dominion, and of prosperity, There shall be no end—Upon the throne of David and Upon his kingdom, By establishing it and By sustaining it, With justice and With righteousness,—From henceforth, Even unto times age-abiding: The jealousy of Yahweh of hosts, will perform this!
Or here?

Luk 1:33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob, unto the ages, and, of his kingdom, there shall be, no end.

[eaglesway]

Hi Willie,

I thoroughly read your post. Lots of interesting stuff. Some of which I agree with, some I don't, some I am not sure yet - as usual :o)

I am quite certain that time definitely actually exists. Time is a substantial part of this present reality/revelation, according to the scriptures. I thoroughly reject reducing the scriptures to arguments in semantics. Yet, I am also quite certain that time is being progressively swallowed up by the NOW- which is also the "I AM THAT I AM" and the "WAS, IS, WILL BE "of YHWH. The Now/I AM/YHWH will become "All in All"- eventually. At least in so far as the scriptures are concerned, we do not yet see all things subject unto Him. Only after all things become subject/summed up in Christ will God be "all in all"(IMO). Until then at least, time is. He has made it so.

The idea that something is perfect, does not, in my mind, eliminate that it can grow/expand/etc. In fact, such continuing growth is, IMO, a chief element of perfection and a big part of the promise of eternity. Logic arguments are affected by the parameters of our perspective/paradigm and are not always as complete as we think they are.

I understand the teaching that we existed in an ever-present eternal way with God before the foundation of the world,- I am not convinced, but I am not closed to the idea nor is it new to me. I think some of the things you express represent a theoretical understanding which may or may not be fully correct/real, but as usual, I am open to the Holy Spirit for further enlightenment.

Also, Some of my questions are asked for the purpose of provoking thought, not necessarily because I am seeking an in depth theological presentation concerning them, (as you said, eternity and time are big subjects) but I am grateful for your presentation, there are many good thoughts included in it.  It is just that I prefer to present Possibilities concerning some things, lest I should commit the error of declaring my Possibilities or even Probabilities to others as if they were Absolutes. As always, wherever the scriptures leave question marks, or even present question marks as answers- I prefer to leave them in place. Peace, John

[Lefein]

If I could say so without seeming overly spiritual, I believe that God revealed Eternity, and Perfection to me in this way when I was thinking about what Heaven would be like.

"Perpetually, and perfectly fold-forging a perfect ingot of perfect metal"

Japanese swords are made through a process called fold forging, where the hot metal is folded onto itself in order to get rid of the impurities in it, instead of the usual way of just beating the carbon out of it directly.

So, if you applied that sort of idea to Eternity, you'd continually be "perfecting" the already perfect, and continually reforging the perfect into ever increasingly beautiful works of art; even arts like the art of living, or the art of music, or even worship is an art.  These things will already be perfect, but continually, and eternally reforged into new manifestations of perfection.

Just what I believe I'd received about the subject, perhaps it might resonate.  :2c:

[micah7:9]

I HEAR IT. :bigGrin:

[thinktank]

If I could say so without seeming overly spiritual, I believe that God revealed Eternity, and Perfection to me in this way when I was thinking about what Heaven would be like.

"Perpetually, and perfectly fold-forging a perfect ingot of perfect metal"

Japanese swords are made through a process called fold forging, where the hot metal is folded onto itself in order to get rid of the impurities in it, instead of the usual way of just beating the carbon out of it directly.

So, if you applied that sort of idea to Eternity, you'd continually be "perfecting" the already perfect, and continually reforging the perfect into ever increasingly beautiful works of art; even arts like the art of living, or the art of music, or even worship is an art.  These things will already be perfect, but continually, and eternally reforged into new manifestations of perfection.

Just what I believe I'd received about the subject, perhaps it might resonate.  :2c:

:bigGrin: That's how I see God as an ever creating entity who does not stop creating but continually grows. If God knows all things, that might be true in the second they were written, but then he can create even more and then still know all things.

[micah7:9]

You bet!  And that is just great!!

[eaglesway]

Resonates!

[Cardinal]

If I could say so without seeming overly spiritual, I believe that God revealed Eternity, and Perfection to me in this way when I was thinking about what Heaven would be like.

"Perpetually, and perfectly fold-forging a perfect ingot of perfect metal"

Japanese swords are made through a process called fold forging, where the hot metal is folded onto itself in order to get rid of the impurities in it, instead of the usual way of just beating the carbon out of it directly.

So, if you applied that sort of idea to Eternity, you'd continually be "perfecting" the already perfect, and continually reforging the perfect into ever increasingly beautiful works of art; even arts like the art of living, or the art of music, or even worship is an art.  These things will already be perfect, but continually, and eternally reforged into new manifestations of perfection.

Just what I believe I'd received about the subject, perhaps it might resonate.  :2c:

:cloud9: That was beautiful and sounds just like Him...... :thumbsup:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Brother EW...  :winkgrin:

I enjoyed your response and have considered it, ...here is my reply to it!   :HeartThrob:

Hi Willie,

I thoroughly read your post. Lots of interesting stuff. Some of which I agree with, some I don't, some I am not sure yet - as usual :o)

That's okay...   :winkgrin:  we are all learning, and in that learning, things we thought we knew as truth, were actually shielded from it.  Since 2000 (quite a momentous year for me), ...I have learned that many of the things that I considered as TRUTH, actually were not truth at all... and in humility, and dilgence, I continue to surge forward, anxiously awaiting further revelation in the time I have left to seek... And will surely find some (if not many) things that I hold presently... to be in need of further alteration by our Father...

I am quite certain that time definitely actually exists.

I have no doubt of that either...  :thumbsup: ...but the proposal that it existed prior to its revelation (other than as KNOWLEDGE that was KNOWN in the heart of YHVH), ...and/or that it shall exist beyond its "end" is what I question.

Time is a substantial part of this present reality/revelation, according to the scriptures. I thoroughly reject reducing the scriptures to arguments in semantics. Yet, I am also quite certain that time is being progressively swallowed up by the NOW- which is also the "I AM THAT I AM" and the "WAS, IS, WILL BE "of YHWH.

I can agree with that... :nod:  ...however I see the notations of --- "was, is and will be" --- as notations for our benefit as cognizant members of TIME (not ETERNITY) and are issued "condescensions" from the ETERNAL heart YHVH to those (us) within the FINITE state, ...a "mercy" which is given due to our lack of the true vision and comprehension of the ETERNAL state...

The Now/I AM/YHWH will become "All in All"- eventually. At least in so far as the scriptures are concerned, we do not yet see all things subject unto Him. Only after all things become subject/summed up in Christ will God be "all in all"(IMO). Until then at least, time is. He has made it so.

That we (in this finite condition and scenario) cannot "see" that all things ARE SUBJECT to Him, does not mean that they ARE not... It only means that WE are yet to "see" that THEY ARE...  YHVH is an UNCHANGING entity... so He NEVER "becomes" anything that He IS NOT (already).  Such suggestion of CHANGE means that He is other than COMPLETE and in need of "enhancements" --  :mshock:

Mal 3:6 -- this SCRIPTURAL statement is either truth or deception... I choose to believe it to be TRUTH.  :winkgrin:

The idea that something is perfect, does not, in my mind, eliminate that it can grow/expand/etc. In fact, such continuing growth is, IMO, a chief element of perfection and a big part of the promise of eternity. Logic arguments are affected by the parameters of our perspective/paradigm and are not always as complete as we think they are.

Your "mind" is welcome to this perception and belief, bro... and you are not alone, for it is quite commonly held by most. (even L. Ray Smith! -- who is of the MOST CONTROVERSIAL of teachers!) 

However if indeed this were TRUE, then YHVH God could not claim to be ALL KNOWING or "all anything" for that matter, ...for there are things (according to your present vision), that are NOT KNOWN by Him, for you designate "PERFECT" (which means COMPLETE), as something INCOMPLETE and in the process of "growth"...

That proposes to the meaning of the word "PERFECT" that it does not mean what it implies... something in the state of "PERFECTION" means that it is not in need of ANY ALTERATIONS, for it is COMPLETE in EVERY CONCIEVABLE observation.

If we are to take your definition of the word "PERFECT"... then the demand of GOD that we be loving, blessing, and forgiving our brothers is only POSSIBLY PERFECT, as the Father in Heaven is POSSIBLY PERFECT -- Matt 5:48 -- and that these suggestions in -- Matt 5:43-47 -- will someday (as YHVH "grows"), be "possibly" altered in some way!   :faint: 

Sorry bro, ...you are welcome to embrace this, ...but as I see it, it is COMPLETELY and PERFECTLY...  unacceptable.  :mnah:

KNOWLEDGE is POWER...  The designation of ALL in the word "ALMIGHTY" means that NO "might" exists that is NOT in His capacity NOW... and you appear to suggest that YHVH has "growth" to enhance PERFECTION... which He claims is HIS state... means that CHANGE is afoot for Him.  I cannot agree with this thinking.  :dontknow:

To suggest that there is something that YHVH does NOT "know", means that along with that lack, POWER is also lacking, for it recommends that His CAPACITY is limited to a measurement that is INCOMPLETE... And further suggests IMPERFECTION as well as demeans the TRUTH of the term "ALMIGHTY"...

I understand the teaching that we existed in an ever-present eternal way with God before the foundation of the world,- I am not convinced, but I am not closed to the idea nor is it new to me. I think some of the things you express represent a theoretical understanding which may or may not be fully correct/real, but as usual, I am open to the Holy Spirit for further enlightenment.

I fully realize that what I write or understand can easily be other than PERFECT... for I am not in a state of perfection, and readily admit this.  :blush: ...however, this belief is NOT something I was EVER taught by anyone... nor is it common in ANY "christian" circles...  It is quite a strong position and can be SCRIPTURALLY argued from several different directions... (which I am able to do, if one wishes to contend with the position I hold.)    In this, you have not rebuttled the position, only stated that it does not lie within the beliefs that you hold, without presenting that belief,  ...nor showing by the use of Scripture that my position is in some way, inaccurate.  :dontknow:

That ALL the SONS (BEN which is universally used in the OT in reference to GENEOLOGICAL designation) of God were present at creation is SCRIPTURALLY documented, not to mention that there are MANY other supporting verses to my "belief" (which you presently term as "theory")... such as has already been named in the "parable of the Lost Son"... as well as Jeremiah's notation of himself, ...that as stated BY YHVH, he was KNOWN (by YHVH) prior to being manifest in his mother's womb -- Jer 1:5

The very same word (know/knew) -- #H3045 -- YADA -- is used in -- Psalm 46:10 as well as so many Scriptures (and I'll provide 20 or 30 or more if you need them) -- that designates MORE than INFORMATION, rather points to EXPERIENCE combined with INFORMATION...

To "KNOW" is not just solely ...the possession of "information"... rather to "KNOW" includes EXPERIENCE of whatever is "KNOWN"...  I have given examples in the past such as this:

EXAMPLE --- You can read a million BOOKS about "how to drive"... and have ALL information concerning "DRIVING"... but until one actually "DRIVES"... one does not KNOW "how to drive"

This same example can be applied to anything that is considered as KNOWLEDGE... You don't KNOW how to cook, or KNOW how to fly a plane, or KNOW how to type on a keyboard, just because you have gained the INFORMATION that surrounds them...

Also, Some of my questions are asked for the purpose of provoking thought, not necessarily because I am seeking an in depth theological presentation concerning them, (as you said, eternity and time are big subjects) but I am grateful for your presentation, there are many good thoughts included in it.  It is just that I prefer to present Possibilities concerning some things, lest I should commit the error of declaring my Possibilities or even Probabilities to others as if they were Absolutes. As always, wherever the scriptures leave question marks, or even present question marks as answers- I prefer to leave them in place. Peace, John

That is fine my brother... you are welcome to your way, far be it from me to seek to change YOU... That is God's biz!  I present my observations, and leave them to Him to use or not use concerning others.

Before I close, ...It is significant to note that I did not designate ANYTHING that I said to you as "ABSOLUTE"... and it is inaccurate to infer that I did...   

Until I do so (name ANY of my beliefs as ABSOLUTE), then this appears to be more of a "STRAWMAN" (the word, absolute), than an address of the things I said.  :dontknow:   If this was not your intention toward my words, then please consider that I retract this ahead of time with apologies! - :HeartThrob:

I am not insecure on the postions I hold... that does not mean they cannot be proven as inaccurate... Goodness sake!  Such arrogance is only found in those who are no longer "students", vainly percieving they have "arrived" in complete understanding of the WORD, with NOTHING left to learn!

But until such time as you or anyone else (inspired by YHVH), might show them via Scriptural testimony to be inaccurate (again, only as the Holy Spirit would guide), ...I shall hold on to them tightly!  :thumbsup:

:Peace: me bratha...  :afFro:

...willieH  :happygrin:

[WhiteWings]

It is my thought as of late, that eternity is not what I thought it to be. I had always been taught that eternity was a realm of no time. Why?  I felt and read that God created time just for this creation.

Did God create the ages? Yes.
Are ages time? Yes.
Did God live before the ages? Yes.

So God lives His eterinity outside of time. (one of the attributes of omnipresent imo)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think He lives outside of it, and inside of it at the same time.  :dontknow:

[Lefein]

He is everywhere, and has authority over time (sun stood still) so, it makes sense he is above it, as well as in it.

[eaglesway]

Hi Willie,

quote from EW
    The idea that something is perfect, does not, in my mind, eliminate that it can grow/expand/etc.  In fact, such continuing growth is, IMO, a chief element of perfection and a big part of the promise of eternity. Logic arguments are affected by the parameters of our perspective/paradigm and are not always as complete as we think they are.


reply from W
However if indeed this were TRUE, then YHVH  God could not claim to be ALL KNOWING or "all anything" for that matter, ...for there are things (according to your present vision), that are NOT KNOWN by Him, for you designate "PERFECT" (which means COMPLETE), as something INCOMPLETE and in the process of "growth"...

This may or may not be true. It is a logic argument based on what you believe is the complete picture. My proposal is that perfection may be like a river flowing, an ever mellifluous song, etc. For instance, for God to "know" all, may mean a kind of knowing we are as yet unfamiliar with (who has known the mind of the Lord). The perfect, complete, knowledge of which you speak is quite likely- "how to be like the wind"- and not limited to a "volume" of knowing, but rather in the experience of a state of being. For instance, once something is completely filled with God.....permeated with His fulness(for so it pleased the Father for all the fulness to dwell in Him...and of His fulness have we all received...and you are in Him having been filled) He can be all in all in all of it whatever it is doing/being. This union and harmony is my vision of perfection. The limitations of one paradigm may be the chaff fallen off of another. Even as we "abide" in the vine and "continue" in His word now- this seed which has been sown in imperfection will be raised in perfection- but we are told plainly that we DO NOT KNOW what that perfection will be in several places.

Also Willie, I was not impliyng that you are insisting that all your shares are absolutes, I was merely trying to explain that I prefer to hold discussions such as this one in the realm of possibilities and probabilities as opposed to establishing "doctrine" or setting, or even seeking, "absolutes"- its more fun and IMO more edifying because we can shift perspectives and re-examine and sift our ideas and our revelation. As I have stated before in many posts- I believe we see through a glass darkly concerning much of this- and while I love pressing into the mind of Christ- I do not feel the need to be too emphatic while enjoying the exploration of my brothers and sisters thoughts on the matter- including yours :o), Peace, John

[eaglesway]

:cloud9: I think He lives outside of it, and inside of it at the same time.  :dontknow:

:thumbsup:

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
(Act 17:23-28)

I think He lives in everywhere and everywhen and everyone. :o)

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: I think He lives outside of it, and inside of it at the same time.  :dontknow:

:thumbsup:

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
(Act 17:23-28)

I think He lives in everywhere and everywhen and everyone. :o)

He lives out side of it and in side of it because HE IS TIME, thats why time cannot and will not stop. Its an amazing thing that man has so much to say about a word in the Bible that is only used once..ETERNITY...not even God has much to say about it, but man has alot to say about it. Time...does not stop with death....Jehovah

[Pierac]

Has time stopped here?
Psa 102:27  But, thou, art, the same,—And, thy years, shall have no end:
Or here?

Isa 9:7  Of the increase of dominion, and of prosperity, There shall be no end—Upon the throne of David and Upon his kingdom, By establishing it and By sustaining it, With justice and With righteousness,—From henceforth, Even unto times age-abiding: The jealousy of Yahweh of hosts, will perform this!
Or here?

Luk 1:33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob, unto the ages, and, of his kingdom, there shall be, no end.

How do these verses fit into your verse listed above?

1Co 15:25  For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.  until?

1Co 15:27  For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28  When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.


Paul

[micah7:9]

Has time stopped here?
Psa 102:27  But, thou, art, the same,—And, thy years, shall have no end:
Or here?

Isa 9:7  Of the increase of dominion, and of prosperity, There shall be no end—Upon the throne of David and Upon his kingdom, By establishing it and By sustaining it, With justice and With righteousness,—From henceforth, Even unto times age-abiding: The jealousy of Yahweh of hosts, will perform this!
Or here?

Luk 1:33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob, unto the ages, and, of his kingdom, there shall be, no end.

How do these verses fit into your verse listed above?

1Co 15:25  For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.  until?

1Co 15:27  For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28  When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.


Paul

Ok my bad as usual ,time is over at until. Got it, dont want to be stubborn about this, your  correct. Thanks, Im a slow learner.

[Lefein]

If I may be perhaps a little unorthodox, and maybe a bit prodding;  Why is it important that time not exist in the inheritance to come?  Are we afraid we'll grow old?  Time is a part of creation, and God redeems our time - I suspect that time will not end, and I am absolutely certain that God will redeem it, and glorify it to be as he intended.

Glorified time sounds an awful lot more positive, and worthwhile than..."suspended time"; in my opinion anyway.

[micah7:9]

Good reasoning. :bigGrin:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:....For me, it's because of what He spoke to me about time being the measurement of death, AND, the fact that it is yet another boundary that we only have to experience here.

If the last enemy to be destroyed is death, and time is the measurement of death, then what would time be needed FOR, after the last enemy is destroyed? There would be nothing to measure, all would live forever in Him, fully redeemed.

I would propose that the reason Jesus walked thru walls is not because He was a spirit, which He proved He wasn't, ONLY, but because He overcame death, the last enemy, He could walk unhindered in a time BEFORE the wall was even built. Physicists believe there are "doors"; even science is catching up to spiritual ideas. Blessings...