Eternity

[willieH]

Perhaps "eternity" doesn't have anything to do with time at all, but instead with a quality of existence beyond linear measurements entirely.

I agree with this entirely.  :happygrin: 

Time is "kind of like eternity", in that it is shapen in "NOW", but in dimension, it is TWO dimensional... whereas a SPHERE is "circular" yet THREE dimensional in the same "NOW" moment...

The CIRCLE is round "this way" only, whereas...

The SPHERE is "round this way, and that"... :nod:

A sphere is like a circle, but of an entirely better, and loftier quality dimension-wise than the circle.

Amen.  :thumbsup:  Great illustration!

A CIRCLE is shaped in the same way as a SPHERE, but is vastly LESS and LIMITED in almost every way as well as dissimilar to a SPHERE with the exception of its "shape".

You can't compare a circle to a sphere, only so far as their shape from one perspective.  But if you turn a circle, and turn a sphere...they lose alot of their comparability.

Agreed ! ...this is bordering upon, ...PHENOMENAL!  :mshock:  Let us mark down this date!  :laughing7:

So too, is Time, and Eternity like a circle, and sphere.  Comparable in one sense of shape, and one perspective, but entirely incomparable otherwise.

That "shape" being "NOW"...

Just completely well said Lefein...   :thumbsup:

I see this (as limited finite vision affords me), in exactly the same way...  :winkgrin:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Lefein]

Indeed WillieH, to use what scientists say about our universe, we can only see an observable part of it, that looks flat to us, but in reality it is this gargantuan expansion.

Olam/Eternity we can only barely see even a slice of the sphere, a flat condensed, limited circle of it, much like how when we look up into space, it seems endless - this flat slice of the Olamic Sphere seems endless too, and endless indeed it is, but it is much more than just the 2 dimensional circle (+time; infinite in measurement), it is a whole sphere with volume, depth, and incomprehensible measurements, and qualities.

Olam is not about time, rather than quality of an unobservable reality, of which time - from a millisecond to infinity to a day's stroll in the park is but a barely observable part.

[micah7:9]

You guys have been great. Thanks many times :bigGrin: :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

I once asked  God about 2 days ago about the concept of eternity and he said to me

"imagine a circle, the begining and end of it, completes one cycle"

So I said "So is there an end to eternity, do you go once around the circle, and then start over again?

"Imagine the circle expanding at a constant rate, so wherever you place a spot on that circle, there will allways be more in existence, so in effect there is no end to eternity, but yet there is a begining and an end, for I am the alpha and omega"

It's probably more complex than that, but I think that's a genius explanation from God  :bigGrin:

:cloud9:  :thumbsup: Those "circles" are REVOLUTIONS, LIKE THE WHIRLWIND that Elijah went up in. Same word comes from Genesis, ie. generations.

There is no time in the Spirit, because there is no death in the Spirit. Time is the measurement of death, ie. something had to die to create time. And "something" did........the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Blessings.....

[micah7:9]

"There is no time in the Spirit..."
" Time is the measurement of death." And where can I find this info?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That's something the Lord spoke to me one day while I was reading the Word. He used the example of how our seasons change and we perceive time has passed because of the decay occuring from the changes, ie. same princilple as something has to die to create time. Otherwise, without death, we (and it) would live forever. Blessings....

[micah7:9]

Time does not stop

[Lefein]

Time exists as long as there is space, and matter.  Decay might cease, but time does not.  Atleast in our conventional understanding of it.

[micah7:9]

Correct, God is I AM so time will nor cease!

[Cardinal]

Time exists as long as there is space, and matter.  Decay might cease, but time does not.  Atleast in our conventional understanding of it.

:cloud9: You missed the point. There is no time IN THE SPIRIT. Which is why He knows the end from the beginning. There is no space or matter to be concerned with, in the Spirit of God. These are things that were created, and created to display that which is limitless in nature. Blessings....

[Lefein]

I think that the idea of timeless-existence (no time) came from the concept of Eternity (Olam/Aion) being time-based instead of quality based in which time is a but another facet, or pillar.

"God is Eternal" it is true in terms of time that God is endless, of course it is because God is already endless - but Eternal I think has a greater sort of essence to it; when someone says God is Eternal, they should really be thinking more along the lines of "God is not bound by the facade of our observable faculties --- God isn't a flat being, he is multi-dimensional" rather than "God is not bound by time".

Everlasting, For ever - translations of Aion and Olam even when regarding "Hell" like "Eternal Hellfire", well these describes not a situation of endless time, but of a circumstance that is beyond our ability to comprehend.

How many of us can comprehend Heaven?  Not even John in his Revelation could fully express the magnificence, even under the very breath of the Spirit, caught up in the spirit.  Aionion Chastisement is likewise, chastisement beyond our realm of comprehension -- of a quality, and a sort that we cannot express fully, rather than "it lasts forever".

Eternal, which comes from Olam and Aion I think...might be best described as "Incomprehensible", if that makes sense.

[micah7:9]

The Spirit must have time, if not the spirit is not, and that cant be true, for the Spirit DOES is action.

[Lefein]

Omnipresence is existence in all moments, and omniscience is perception of all moments.  These moments do not bind God, but he does exist, and have perception in them.

The Spirit has time - all time.  But time does not have it, for he made time as we notice it.  I think that the nature of The Spirit and Time is something that we'd need to study though...It is probably (like all things with God's nature) a bit complicated...

Perhaps it is a part of his "I AM"

He has always existed, and therefore has all the time in the world, and beyond.

[micah7:9]

I AM, is time... and as long as I Am IS, there is time.

[reFORMer]

Unless you can explain the difference between these literally rendered Scripture phrases:  1.) "the age of the age," 2.) "the age of the ages," and, 3.) "the ages of the ages," you do not know what "eternity" means!  I can assure you, the Holy Spirit is not guilty of a slip of the pen.  "Oops, I missed a letter!"  Not!

Lack of experience and knowledge cannot be remedied if you're taught to be deaf and blind.  God sees and hears everything.  He's not deceived or defiled. To be like Him is the Image of your destiny.  The spirit of deception is identified by an inability to listen, specifically to talk about God by those of God.  (conf., 1 Jn 4.5-6)  Don't think whatever the label "orthodoxy" is trumpeted before by bought religious elite who give titles of honor to one another must therefore be true.  What it really is (now think about this) is the popular consensus at any given time among Institutionally owned professionals who believe they should have the microphone.

To illustrate the inconsistency of the translators, in the following passages the Greek word translated with "eternity" in English is consistently so translated.  Consider how illogical the Holy Spirit would appear saying,

"which God, who does not lie promised before the beginning of eternity (literally:  before times aeonian)" (Tit 1:2);

"according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for eternity past (literally:  in times aeonian)" (Rom 16:25);

"we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the eternities (literally:  before the eons) unto our glory:  which none of the princes of this eternity (literally:  this aeon) knew..."(1 Cor 2:7-8) this says there is before at least two or more in the past;

"who gave Himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil eternity (literally:  this present wicked aeon)" (Gal 1:4);

"who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming eternity (literally:  impending aeon)" (Heb.6:5.)

"that in the eternities to come (literally:  aeons to come) he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus;" (Eph 2:7) this says there are two or more in the future;

"the harvest is the end of this eternity (literally:  conclusion of the aeon)" (Matt 13:39);

"now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the eternities (literally:  the ends of the aeons) are come;" (1Cor 10:11) this says they all end!

If I'm deceived it's the fault of Scripture itself. Consistent rendering not only works, it's to be preferred, though it has little to do with settling the larger question.  Most people only think it does because they're ignorant of what is or is not written in Holy Scripture.  Never the less, for those who consider Scripture to be the authority for faith and practice this information should be decisive.  Those who don't bother reading it will give an explanation why in that great day.  Those who do read it but refuse to bow their proud necks will have more to answer for.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: One of the things that makes this site different from so many others, is that it is inhabited by people who have, by virtue of being here in the first place, decided to lay down everything they were taught by man in Babylon, and seek GOD for answers. So it should not come as a surprise or an affront to anyone, if they see things on here they've never heard of. Eye has not seen and EAR HAS NOT HEARD, the things that God has reserved for those that love Him. My  :2c: Blessings....

[thinktank]

I see things differently. I think that time does exist, but in the spirit God is not bound by time, so he can in effect be here or there, the alpha and Omega before Abraham was I am, he can be anywhere at anytime. But we as people exist on a time scale that unveils and this time scale is eternal, never runs out. For through time here are somethings having been accomplished.

The birth of the word, the first born creature (If the word is the first, then does that mean time existed at his conception? For before that it was just Father all by himself), The creation of the angels, universe. Creation of Earth all creatures and mankind. The fall of man, the unveiling of the plan of God through the age. Bringing Jesus on the scene

If time does not exist then how can things be after death. e.g If I as a spirit die, and there is no time I could in effect be back at the begining of creation, where death still reigns.

But as micah also said Jesus said I am so he in effect maybe he's saying yes I can go here or there but right now I am, with you now in this present moment of existence, in this present Time.

What do you think? For without time how can things be birthed, seed time and harvest etc.

[Lefein]

Time is a creation of God's, and as such why should it also not be redeemed for its purpose?  To perpetuate motion, instead of decay as it does now in the fallen state.

As for God, a metaphor to describe his omnipresence/science?

"God is the film editor, we watch it play."

Old film strips used to be edited frame by frame if I am thinking correctly, but when you press play it works very much like our linear, unfolding timeline.

Of course, just because God is the film editor, doesn't mean he doesn't watch the film either. :)

[Beloved Servant]

God Will be all in all and all things will be swallowed up of Him. Yea, are already. It is finished.

He is limitless and thus can not be measured — where would one start? — where would one finish?

Our perceptions do not always reflect what is going on outside of our limited understanding, that's the purpose of faith.

[micah7:9]

In time :bigGrin:

[thinktank]

So if time did not exist does that mean I could spend an eternity with Jesus in his peace, without having to worry about turning the electricity off?

What would happen around me, let's say I spend a millon years doing nothing but enjoying the presence of Jesus, does that mean if I decide to do something else, I walk outside that nothing has happened, that the other beings in heaven angel and human would be exactly the same? Not even wearing different clothes? But if that's the case doesnt that mean that time in fact did not take place, that time was still or stopped? But if they did wear different clothes, doesn't that mean that time passed?

In my limited knowledge it seems to be that only God the father exists outside of time and possibly the word Jesus, but everyone else is subject to time or unfoldment of time, as Gods plan unfolds.
:2c:

[willieH]

I AM, is time... and as long as I Am IS, there is time.

Actually... TIME is "NOW" in motion. (something in MOTION is not at PEACE/STILL)...

God notes in the OT -- Psalm 46:10 -- that one must be STILL (PEACE), and in that "STILLNESS" -- KNOW that He is GOD... 

Man cannot entirely separate Himself from the decaying "movement" of TIME, but He can separate Himself from its "doings", by separating himself from those "doings"... which is WHY CHRIST removed into the wilderness and, into the Garden, ...to pray (away from the city and the corruptible "DOINGS" of MEN, into a setting which GOD made without the presence of MAN, ...and which is perpetuallly of HIM and His "doings")

...willieH  :happygrin:

[micah7:9]

I AM, is time... and as long as I Am IS, there is time.

Actually... TIME is "NOW" in motion. (something in MOTION is not at PEACE/STILL)...

God notes in the OT -- Psalm 46:10 -- that one must be STILL (PEACE), and in that "STILLNESS" -- KNOW that He is GOD... 

Man cannot entirely separate Himself from the decaying "movement" of TIME, but He can separate Himself from its "doings", by separating himself from those "doings"... which is WHY CHRIST removed into the wilderness and, into the Garden, ...to pray (away from the city and the corruptible "DOINGS" of MEN, into a setting which GOD made without the presence of MAN, ...and which is perpetuallly of HIM and His "doings")

...willieH  :happygrin:

Understood,  yet time was still there in the garden and in the wilderness, perhaps " silent" but there.

[Beloved Servant]

Perhaps for us but not for Jesus.
For, if He did not lay His Life down, He would still be walking in those same sandals.
And! Those sandals would never wear out!
He knew no bounds that He chose not to know.