Who is Satan?

[Lefein]

I still want to know who God was talking to in Job.  I still want to know who was given permission to steal from, and assault Job.

[micah7:9]

Job 1:7  And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary.
Job 1:12  And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Lo, all that he hath is in thy hand, only unto him put not forth thy hand.' And the Adversary goeth out from the presence of Jehovah.

There you go.

[thinktank]

Job 1:7  And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary.
Job 1:12  And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Lo, all that he hath is in thy hand, only unto him put not forth thy hand.' And the Adversary goeth out from the presence of Jehovah.

There you go.

whats an adversary?

[Molly]

Satan was [equal or] higher in the celestial hierarchy than the archangel Michael.


9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

--Jude 1

[micah7:9]

Satan is higher in the Satan is higher in the hierarchy than the archangel Michael.


9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

--Jude 1

Now please I need some confirmation on "Satan is higher in the hierarchy than the archangel Michael" Just where do you get that the adversary is in a "higher hierarchy than the archangel Michael ?"

Archangel =  a chief angel: primary verb to be first. If you believe or contend that there is or was or will be a higher angel[mesenger] that Jesus, please give me scripture and verse. In fact show me another archangel in the Bible.

Besides, the original post was "Who is satan." I started again from the beginning and before the second sheet you could not tell that we were talking about who is satan.

[Molly]

Satan is higher in the Satan is higher in the hierarchy than the archangel Michael.


9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

--Jude 1

Now please I need some confirmation on "Satan is higher in the hierarchy than the archangel Michael" Just where do you get that the adversary is in a "higher hierarchy than the archangel Michael ?"

Archangel =  a chief angel: primary verb to be first. If you believe or contend that there is or was or will be a higher angel[mesenger] that Jesus, please give me scripture and verse. In fact show me another archangel in the Bible.

Do you think Jesus is an angel?  Or that Jesus is Michael?

I changed it to equal or higher--because in that verse Michael and Satan are contending over the body of Moses, and Michael says to Satan, the Lord [Jesus] rebuke thee, so clearly Jesus is higher than Satan.  But Michael is not.

[micah7:9]

Michael = H4310 who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: Know any one else who can hold that place other than Jesus?
Angel= messenger in both OT and OT

So yes I believe Jesus is a messenger and Jesus is Michael  the Archangel.
The adversary has no more height or stature that what Jehovah has or will give him. I believe it said "The Lord rebuke thee."

[thinktank]

Michael = H4310 who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: Know any one else who can hold that place other than Jesus?
Angel= messenger in both OT and OT

So yes I believe Jesus is a messenger and Jesus is Michael  the Archangel.
The adversary has no more height or stature that what Jehovah has or will give him. I believe it said "The Lord rebuke thee."

I don't see that, I see Jesus as the word and when he speaks it his angels and the spirit go to work. I don't see Jesus doing mortal combat in heaven, but sends the archangel michael to do his dirty work. Not saying that Jesus can't fight though, he can do anything and  also is willing to get his hands dirty obviously proven.  :happy3:

[micah7:9]

"mortal combat in heaven"??? What mortal combat are you refering to?
"sends the archangel michael "? Where do I read He sends the archangel Michael anywhere?

And Jesus IS THE WORD, that has not changed.

[Lefein]

It says in Daniel 10:13 that Michael was one of the great princes.  Not the.

I don't believe Michael is Jesus.

[Molly]

Michael = H4310 who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: Know any one else who can hold that place other than Jesus?
Angel= messenger in both OT and OT

So yes I believe Jesus is a messenger and Jesus is Michael  the Archangel.
The adversary has no more height or stature that what Jehovah has or will give him. I believe it said "The Lord rebuke thee."

OK, that's fine.  You think Michael is talking for himself when he says the Lord rebuke thee?

In other words, I, Michael , as the Lord [Jesus] , rebuke thee?

Then why are Michael and the Lord Jesus mentioned in the same sentence?  Is there a reason why Jesus would change his name back and forth like that?

Let's look at that sentence in another translation to get the meaning that not even Michael dared to accuse Satan.




Jude 1:9 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
9 Yet Michael the archangel,  when he was disputing with the Devil  in a debate about Moses' body, did not dare bring an abusive condemnation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

[thinktank]

"mortal combat in heaven"??? What mortal combat are you refering to?
"sends the archangel michael "? Where do I read He sends the archangel Michael anywhere?

And Jesus IS THE WORD, that has not changed.

Keep your hair on micah, I can easily get niffed by asking you the same question as to why Jesus is michael?

The combat is found in the book of Daniel, where the great prince stands up against the prince of persia and fights for 20 something days. Aslo found in Rev 12 where thre is a great war in heaven and michael casts down the dragon.

Jesus said I beheld Satan falleth as lighning.

Which to me means I watched satan fall from heaven, so someone else is doing the fighting. This is the pattern in the earthly world, where kings order troops to fight.

[micah7:9]

Michael = H4310 who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: Know any one else who can hold that place other than Jesus?
Angel= messenger in both OT and OT

So yes I believe Jesus is a messenger and Jesus is Michael  the Archangel.
The adversary has no more height or stature that what Jehovah has or will give him. I believe it said "The Lord rebuke thee."

OK, that's fine.  You think Michael is talking for himself when he says the Lord rebuke thee?

In other words, I, Michael , as the Lord [Jesus] , rebuke thee?

Then why are Michael and the Lord Jesus mentioned in the same sentence?  Is there a reason why Jesus would change his name back and forth like that?

Let's look at that sentence in another translation to get the meaning that not even Michael dared to accuse Satan.




Jude 1:9 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
9 Yet Michael the archangel,  when he was disputing with the Devil  in a debate about Moses' body, did not dare bring an abusive condemnation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the chief–messenger, when, with the adversary, disputing, he was reasoning about the body of Moses, durst not impose on him a defamatory sentence, but said––The Lord rebuke thee!(Rotherham)

[Pierac]

It says in Daniel 10:13 that Michael was one of the great princes.  Not the.

I don't believe Michael is Jesus.

Then you believe correctly!  Jesus is the Son of God created in the womb of Mary!
Luke 1:19  The angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news...

Luke 1:35  The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

:thumbsup:
Paul

[Molly]

OTHER ARCHANGELS



Raphael in Judaism
The angels mentioned in the Torah, the older books of the Hebrew Bible, are without names. Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish of Tiberias (A.D. 230–270), asserted that all the specific names for the angels were brought back by the Jews from Babylon, and modern commentators would tend to agree.

Raphael is named in several Jewish apocryphal books (see below).

Raphael in the Book of Enoch
Raphael bound Azazel under a desert called Dudael according to Enoch 10:5–7:

"And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgment he shall be cast into the fire."

Of seven archangels in the angelology of post-Exilic Judaism, only Michael, mentioned as archangel (Daniel 12:1)(Jude verse 9) and Gabriel are mentioned by name in the scriptures that came to be accepted as canonical by all Christians. Raphael is mentioned by name in the Book of Tobit, which is accepted as canonical by Catholics and Orthodox. Four others, however, are named in the 2nd century BC Book of Enoch (chapter xxi): Uriel, Raguel, Sariel, and Jarahmeel.

The root of the name Raphael also appears in the modern Hebrew word Rophe meaning doctor of medicine, thus echoing the healing function traditionally attributed to this angel.

Raphael in Christianity
The name of the angel Raphael appears only in the Deuterocanonical Book of Tobit. The Book of Tobit is considered canonical by Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians. Raphael first appears disguised in human form as the travelling companion of the younger Tobias, calling himself "Azarias the son of the great Ananias". During the adventurous course of the journey the archangel's protective influence is shown in many ways including the binding of the demon in the desert of upper Egypt. After the return and the healing of the blindness of the elder Tobit, Azarias makes himself known as "the angel Raphael, one of the seven, who stand before the Lord" Tobit 12:15. Compare the unnamed angels in John's Revelation 8:2. Christian churches following Catholic teachings (Roman, Oriental, Orthodox, Anglican, etc) venerate and patronize him as Saint Raphael the Archangel.

--wikipedia.com

[micah7:9]

Ill stick top the 66  books.

[Molly]

Michael = H4310 who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: Know any one else who can hold that place other than Jesus?
Angel= messenger in both OT and OT

So yes I believe Jesus is a messenger and Jesus is Michael  the Archangel.
The adversary has no more height or stature that what Jehovah has or will give him. I believe it said "The Lord rebuke thee."

OK, that's fine.  You think Michael is talking for himself when he says the Lord rebuke thee?

In other words, I, Michael , as the Lord [Jesus] , rebuke thee?

Then why are Michael and the Lord Jesus mentioned in the same sentence?  Is there a reason why Jesus would change his name back and forth like that?

Let's look at that sentence in another translation to get the meaning that not even Michael dared to accuse Satan.




Jude 1:9 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
9 Yet Michael the archangel,  when he was disputing with the Devil  in a debate about Moses' body, did not dare bring an abusive condemnation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Jud 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the chief–messenger, when, with the adversary, disputing, he was reasoning about the body of Moses, durst not impose on him a defamatory sentence, but said––The Lord rebuke thee!(Rotherham)

Yes that says the same thing, that the archangel Michael did not dare to defame or accuse Satan.  Now if Michael is Jesus, why would Jesus not dare to defame Satan?

Jesus called Satan the father of lies--that strikes me as pretty defamatory. lol

[micah7:9]

It says in Daniel 10:13 that Michael was one of the great princes.  Not the.

I don't believe Michael is Jesus.

Then you believe correctly!  Jesus is the Son of God created in the womb of Mary!
Luke 1:19  The angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news...

Luke 1:35  The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

:thumbsup:
Paul

How does what you show, that Jesus is not Michael / that Michael is not Jesus. Just who then "who is like God?" if not Jesus / Michael?

[Molly]

Ill stick top the 66  books.

well, then you also have to acknowledge the archangel Gabriel at least.

The archangels stand in the presence of God.


Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

[micah7:9]

Ill stick top the 66  books.

well, then you also have to acknowledge the archangel Gabriel at least.

The archangels stand in the presence of God.


Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

Just where do find that Gabriel was/is and archangel?  How many archangels can you find in your Bible(the 66 books)?

[Molly]

It says in Daniel 10:13 that Michael was one of the great princes.  Not the.

I don't believe Michael is Jesus.

Then you believe correctly!  Jesus is the Son of God created in the womb of Mary!
Luke 1:19  The angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news...

Luke 1:35  The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

:thumbsup:
Paul

How does what you show, that Jesus is not Michael / that Michael is not Jesus. Just who then "who is like God?" if not Jesus / Michael?

Every name ending in el refers to God.  Israel means who rules like God.  Is Israel Jesus?  Was Jacob Jesus?

[micah7:9]

It says in Daniel 10:13 that Michael was one of the great princes.  Not the.

I don't believe Michael is Jesus.

Then you believe correctly!  Jesus is the Son of God created in the womb of Mary!
Luke 1:19  The angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news...

Luke 1:35  The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

:thumbsup:
Paul

How does what you show, that Jesus is not Michael / that Michael is not Jesus. Just who then "who is like God?" if not Jesus / Michael?

Every name ending in el refers to God.  Israel means who rules like God.  Is Israel Jesus?  Was Jacob Jesus?

Yes I know that about "EL"

[micah7:9]

Satan was [equal or] higher in the celestial hierarchy than the archangel Michael.


9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

--Jude 1

Here where I lost the post "Who is satan."

[Lefein]

Michael is a name used elsewhere in the Bible, for humans too.  They are not Jesus.

[thinktank]

Ill stick top the 66  books.

well, then you also have to acknowledge the archangel Gabriel at least.

The archangels stand in the presence of God.


Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

Is Gabriel an archangel?

This text calls him an angel.

What does arch mean?  :dontknow: