Masturbation.

[WhiteWings]

You have been listening to too much secular sexuality talk.  Stop watching Dr. Ruth  :grin:

I don't even know who that is  :winkgrin:
Let's just say you and live in two totally different worlds... :mshock:

[shawn]

You have been listening to too much secular sexuality talk.  Stop watching Dr. Ruth  :grin:

I don't even know who that is  :winkgrin:
Let's just say you and live in two totally different worlds... :mshock:

I agree.  When I was reading your thoughts on sexuality I was like ???  I suppose that's what makes the world go around.

[junkbunny]

I think it's a bit sad you think sexuality is the same for men and women, WW.  I'm not saying your opinion is invalid, I just see that there's a lot of evidence to show otherwise. 

Bringing the conversation back to the original topic.... does the Bible have anything to say about masturbation specifically, or is it all tied in with sexual impurity?

[Lefein]

A very fine line between the issues.  The problem is, it is such a volatile thing, it can easily hurt you, and others; fantasy in general.

I've never felt a pain quite like it, when someone I held dear admitted to me impure thoughts about a man on a film she'd seen.  ...Then other issues like not talking to me, becoming completely untrustworthy, flinging me into Sheol, etc...and just...well...nevermind...Point being: Sexual sin is a cruel thing, and it won't just hurt the one committing it, but it will hurt elsewhere too.  This may be one of the main reasons why it is not so often discussed by the church, is because if it is condoned, then the lust that so easily follows will stab the body of Christ, like it stabbed me.  If it is condemned however, like many already do - then there is...an odd, insecure form of 'failsafe'.  Alas, there hasn't been a way to really discuss the issue without flaring points of view, and emotional baggage behind it.

The Bible does not (as far as I can see) have anything to say about "The Act", but it has myriads to say about the motives behind it.

But I'll get to the grit of the matter: People don't ask if Masturbation is a sin unless they are doing it, or know someone who is, and are questioning the act.

But the problem is not with the act itself, so much as the motive, and the thought(s) behind it.  Sin begins in the head, before it reaches the crotch it always does.  The Flesh is our biggest enemy, Satan is only our second biggest, for he can only stick around us for a little while...But we are stuck inside our flesh, until it dies.

The question I'd ask, is not so much if the act is wrong; sex, sexuality, are not wrong...it is with whom, why, and when.  Masturbation is likewise.

But now that I am at the grit, I'll call the root from its lair.

[note; all references in the word 'you' and variations are synonymous with the "anonymous" individual asking the question]

What is your person's motive in asking?

If you need sexual release...then that means you are being aroused, if you are being aroused then something is arousing you.  What is it?  Is it sinful?  Can you escape from it?  Flee the harlot's door, flee from sin/lust, etc.

Is your act done out of being aroused by a fantasy outside of God's legal place for sexual expression: Marriage.

Is your act really "just the act", masturbation for the majority of the time only happens after arousal, and very rarely can someone act by sheer physical motion alone, sex and sexually rooted acts always begin in the head.

What is the root behind the act, in essence, and is that root against God?

If yes: Then it is definitely a sin.

If no: Are you sure you should tempt yourself with such a volatile thing?  Flee temptation.

If no, and you are able to handle it without your mind ever wavering, and it is purely a release: It is not sin.

If no, and you are married: Keep it to your husband/wife.  The marriage bed is undefiled.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The meaning of sin: it means to miss the mark.  The mark is the mind of Christ, the mind of Christ is how God thinks about a subject.

Also; He defined lust for me as, desiring ANYTHING contrary to His perfect will FOR THE INDIVIDUAL.

So, with this in mind, believe it or not, it is possible for something to be sin for one person but not sin for another. The difference is in the motive/direction of the person's heart, ie. did God tell them to do/not do? If not, then WHO did? My  :2c: Blessings....

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: The meaning of sin: it means to miss the mark.  The mark is the mind of Christ, the mind of Christ is how God thinks about a subject.

Also; He defined lust for me as, desiring ANYTHING contrary to His perfect will FOR THE INDIVIDUAL.

So, with this in mind, believe it or not, it is possible for something to be sin for one person but not sin for another. The difference is in the motive/direction of the person's heart, ie. did God tell them to do/not do? If not, then WHO did? My  :2c: Blessings....

:grin: :thumbsup:

[Lefein]

I suppose its testimony time...

>_>
<_<
>_>

Story skipped aside, I do remember once upon a night so dreary, a few years ago when an almost audible, or if I may be bold, audible voice echoed out from inside me, and also around me ask;

"Why are you doing this?"

It was not condemning, or accusative...but a questioning sort of "concern".  If only I had known at the time how blessed and significant it was, but I am pretty sure thinking back - It was the first time I'd ever actually "heard" the voice of God.

"Why are you doing this?"

I did not have a good answer, or a satisfactory reason outside of wanting to feel close to someone who was not mine, and based on circumstances that unfolded even to this day, barring a miracle - Will not be mine.

I am not sure if that is helpful to anyone, but it is the only "solid" point from God I really have on a subject that plagues many people including myself.

It boils down to "why are you doing this?", and whether or not you can really give a satisfying answer to the God who asks you.  When faced with the voice of his concern for you - it is difficult to provide such an answer that allows you to continue with good conscience.

My suggestion then, is to ask God yourself - "Why am I doing this?  What do you have to say about it?"

He gives wisdom liberally.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, yes He does. If we are quick to judge the motive of our own heart (when we know it) and deal with it accordingly, then we avoid the judgment of the flesh of that thing, or at least a worse judgment of it. The fire burns but for a season if we willingly lay it down, but it burns continually (neverending ;) UNTIL we do. Blessings...

[Nathan]

What a topic!  And it's great that the mods give us the liberty of letting it be a discussion.  Church definitely looks down on this nasty issue like it's a plague.  At the same time, there's good reason for some of that caution.  As long as we live in these tents of flesh, we are suseptable to the pitfalls along the way. 

Walking in the spirit is a great remedy to this issue mainly because it's literally a flesh issue.  I have found that as a guy, we are much less tempted to become emotionally attached or stirred up sexually with the opposite sex like we can be visually.  It don't take much!

And the truth is, I think Card was aiming at it when she mentioned sin is simply missing the mark.  This really isn't any worse than any other "sin" out there as far as your standing with God goes.  Nothing can separate you from his love.  However, some things can really mess you up on other levels.  This is one of those things.

Not all sins lead to death (separation) but for me personally, I think this is one of those that can because it is physically addictive if it's not governed properly.  Is it wrong to masturbate?  What is masterbation if it's not personal gratification?  What part of me am I gratifying?  My flesh or my spirit?  If it's my spirit that I'm gratifying then I don't see it as missing the mark . . .but if it's flesh I'm gratifying . . .

Does God approve?  Does he disapprove?  For me, if I remember right, there's only one thing that pleases God . . .faith.  As for anything short of that, I really don't think it's on his top ten list of unforgivable sins.  Paul says and I agree, I can do anything I want to do.  If I want to masturbate . . .

However, not everything is "profitable".  Playing with the joys of sexual pleasure is one thing inside the confines of a marriage between one man and one woman . . .anything outside of that, you "can" pursue it, but man, there are some serious reprocussions from that type of thing that will attach themselves to you for the rest of your natural life if you don't allow Christ to intervein in it.

I think there are many reasons why God said it's not good for man to be alone.  Remember, these bodies are loaners.  They're not ours.  We should treat them the same way a visitor treats someone else's home.  So if this is a temple of the Holy Ghost, is there anything wrong with personal gratification through sexual activity?

I really think the Holy Spirit has already answer that question in every individual, the question is . . .are we listening?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup:

[Quaesitor]

I really think the Holy Spirit has already answer that question in every individual, the question is . . .are we listening?

:thumbsup:

[thinktank]

I think one of the problem with this activity is that it is a strange act and so it is assumed to be sinfull and evil, even though there is no scripture. But according to the medical establishment it is necessary in order to cleanse and renew. I guess the big problem is when it becomes an addiction. So the question is who is in control, the body with its desires? e.g hunger, The sinfull heart? i.e greed or the mind/spirit? holyness. If its similar to hot dogs, then we know that eating to much of this is bad for ones health, but if one eats it sparingly then no harm can happen, but to move on and gradually change and renew ones habits, which gets easier with age  :laughing7:

If there is lots of lust it's usually concentrated in the heart area, so if one meditates on this area and asks the spirit of Jesus Christ to come in and burn away the lust, burn, burn, concentrate for a long period of time. Also one can call upon the blood of Jesus Christ to wash and cleanse this area. Another tool is to declare that I am a dead man cruxified in Christ, this makes the lust temptation boring and unprofitable.

[lomarah]

I always look at it as giving the spirit control over the flesh. Masturbation imo is a fleshly, carnal desire that our spirit should control. It is not a sin to be sexually aroused imo but our spirit must have control over that arousal to do with it accordingly. Otherwise we'd all be like those dogs you see that hump anything in sight!  :mlaugh:
I believe that these desires are for a husband and wife and should be kept that way. We are to become like Christ... I can't imagine he wouldn't have had control over those desires.

Anyhow, that is my understanding and  :2c:.

[jabcat]

I always look at it as giving the spirit control over the flesh. Masturbation imo is a fleshly, carnal desire that our spirit should control. It is not a sin to be sexually aroused imo but our spirit must have control over that arousal to do with it accordingly. Otherwise we'd all be like those dogs you see that hump anything in sight!  :mlaugh:
I believe that these desires are for a husband and wife and should be kept that way. We are to become like Christ... I can't imagine he wouldn't have had control over those desires.

Anyhow, that is my understanding and  :2c:.

:thumbsup:

[junkbunny]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who shared their two cents!  This has been a fantastic discussion. :)

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Sin, is it really the issue ???
I go by all the books written on the subject, i.e. Sin IS "the breaking of the rules or Law...." To Trespass (Break) what our book or leader says is our law to follow. If our leader says not to wear a wedding ring, not to wear makeup, not to shop on Sunday, then these are all sins to us if we condone our leaders. If the elders of our church says we cant use rubber on our wagon wheels on the buggies because it is too modern, and we do, then it is a Trespass or sin to those we are a part of.....
       Now as for me, I am free from ALL Sin because my God's Son Killed Sin at the Reserrection , And there is no sin for me in Christ. Because ""I """ know that sin is the transgression of a law that does not apply to me because Christ did away with all rules-Law-that have to be followed to be right with His Father. I am Alive Forever IN the new Life that is Christ.  Christ saved All Things and Completed His Plan on Saving Mankind and    (all things are all matter[atoms] and all space between atoms)  All things are saved..

Now Sin, well if you follow the law because sin IS transgression of law, Then Christ WILL PROFIT YOU NOTHING......

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Touching ones self ? If it is against your church rules then it is a sin, and wrong....

Even tho God does not see sin of any kind even the ones that you think is sin and is not....

[thinktank]

Touching ones self ? If it is against your church rules then it is a sin, and wrong....

Even tho God does not see sin of any kind even the ones that you think is sin and is not....

Isn't that legalism though. Where we must follow mans tradditions and rules in the church rather than Gods rules?

I can see your point though that all churches have different type of rules etc, but how can breaking these man made rules be thought of as sin?

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Because Man is making the rules that "they" say is right / wrong.

All Religions have rules, All religions are part of Christ NOW.

And Law does not dictate our Justification. Christ does. or Did. We are Justified...
Made right with God the father....
I personally hate legalism and fight against all form of such. It is embedded in 99.99999999 % of our Churches/Religions.

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Touching ones self ? If it is against your church rules then it is a sin, and wrong....

Even tho God does not see sin of any kind even the ones that you think is sin and is not....

Isn't that legalism though. Where we must follow mans tradditions and rules in the church rather than Gods rules?

I can see your point though that all churches have different type of rules etc, but how can breaking these man made rules be thought of as sin?

Mans rules as sin??? Because Breaking the rules/Law "if you are in that system of legalism" is sin for you.,.... I call it a self re-enforced delusion

[Lefein]

Anarchy is also a form of Legalism, lets not forget that.

"There is only one rule...no rules...Break it!  And oooh you're gonna get it!"

(ironically, anarchy is also a illogical and cannot actually exist considering that line of thought)

As for Masturbation and Legalism in the churches, etc, etc.  What would a person with The Mind of Christ do?  "What would Jesus do?"

That's our standard.

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Like:
lying
Cheating
Stealing
killing
Masturbation
or ANY OF THE 640 LAWS ON THE BOOKS.   Breaking them is sin... if your a Law follower....

But the Good News is that the Law dose not effect humankind any more.... i.e. No Law=No breaking a law. i.e. No transgression, No Sin. No Death.... Only Life in Christ.

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

let me put it this way too.

you say what would JC do??

One thing I am positive of is that every act I do I Make JC do because he never leaves this Man I am and he don't sin according to some peoples thoughts

[Lefein]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+6%3A1-13&version=NIV

This verse I think is self-explanatory on the issue.

[thinktank]

Anarchy is also a form of Legalism, lets not forget that.

"There is only one rule...no rules...Break it!  And oooh you're gonna get it!"

(ironically, anarchy is also a illogical and cannot actually exist considering that line of thought)

As for Masturbation and Legalism in the churches, etc, etc.  What would a person with The Mind of Christ do?  "What would Jesus do?"

That's our standard.

Yeah Jesus also preached against law breakers not just the legalistic pharisses

Matthew 5:19  
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

I belive the message is that with good church Philadelphia teaching, the church equips the body of christ to follow the 12 commandments of God and if one falls pick them up with love of christ and edifying scriptures.

But legalistic churches teach that anyone who breaks the law is condmened.

But Ladocean churches teach that there are no laws and we can sin to our hearts content for this is why Jesus died for us.