death:an ending?

[WhiteWings]

Does the blue part sound like "Presense"
Or the red part as "Power

The people expected

I'm not speaking about the people but the verse.

But still lower.

The fullness of God is indwelt in cohabitation with my spirit, I am still beneath the angels not being raised to glory myself - yet all things are under my feet in Christ.

Christ is infinitely greater, and was indeed infinitely greater than any Christian today even while he was in the womb.

"I believe"  (for you Jab ^^)

James and I believe the verse that says lower than an angel.

<... snipped flamebait, assumptions and answers based not based on my posts ...>
:Peace:

[WhiteWings]

If Jesus could get sick, could he catch a fatal disease?

Or could He only catch non-fatal diseases?

Maybe He could/did but didn't die from it.

[Lefein]

I'm not speaking about the people but the verse.

The verse is a prophecy about the people's view of him...

James and I believe the verse that says lower than an angel.

I'm going to ask you bluntly - What do you believe Jesus is?

"A god (Divine), or a man (Created)?"

<... snipped flamebait, assumptions and answers based not based on my posts ...>

I've grown really weary of you.

Until you provide valid evidence for Jesus being sickly I am finished with this nonsense "debate" between you, and I in that field.  

That is my final word on this matter.

[Beloved Servant]

WhiteWings,
If you please, your answer does not make any sense to me.

Could Jesus catch a fatal disease?

[jabcat]

Jesus was human as well as divine.  Humans have maladies.  I would think (this is my mind working - I could be wrong) that Jesus' faith, His direct line to His Father, the Father ensuring His will be done in His Son, etc., would indicate Jesus' victory and authority over things as they came up in His life.  "Even the winds and seas obey Him".  So I would think He could speak the word and be instantly cured of human problems as soon as He began to experience them, whether that be a cold, allergy problems, heartburn, etc.  Or did He allow Himself to suffer those things as part of bearing our sorrows, etc.?  

I imagine this post got lost in the shuffle somewhere along the line.  Either way in the above scenario, this sees God and Jesus in control - which I'd think we pretty much all could believe.

Does this bridge any gaps for anyone (if you'd let it)?   :2c:

[jabcat]

I've been observing for a while and I think this thread has went to a point of no longer edify anyone and it could get worse.
My personal opinion is that it should be closed.

Please brothers respect where each of us are by the grace of God in our understanding of the Word and of God.

It is not our place nor do we have the capacity to change each others views, it is by God's Spirit only.

Peace

Q, your thoughts are noted - the thread is being monitored, and very well may have a fatal disease with a prognosis of a very short continued life span.    :crywipe:

**I've made a little change to the 'Posting' note I linked to in an earlier post;

TM Discussion Forum is a DISCUSSION forum - moderated with consideration to the following definition of discussion;

dis-cus-sion
an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate.

If anyone wants to have outright confrontational debates, frankly, take it somewhere else - even to PM if you want to "have it out with someone".  That way the rest of us don't have to experience it.  

A word to the wise.  There are some wise amongst us, right?    :winkgrin:

[micah7:9]

Indeed Beloved Servant - At any rate, he certainly should have caught leprosy if he was so disease-able...The whole reason lepers where ostracised was because it was so contagious.

Yet another reason I believe it was highly, highly unlikely that he ever got sick, or was "capable" (if such a word could be used properly) of getting sick / being corrupted bodily.

Myth: leprosy is not contagious.

[Lefein]

Myth: leprosy is not contagious.

Biblical leprosy =/= Modern leprosy

I really hate it when people miss the whole point over semantics.  I really, really do.

[Molly]

This thread has so blessed me, I've already told 3 people about it, including one total stranger.

[jabcat]

This thread has so blessed me, I've already told 3 people about it, including one total stranger.

:bigGrin:  A lot of good content/food for thought.  I too was blessed by what you earlier said so blessed you - the love of God, the love of Jesus for us - being willing to suffer, know what we face, and give His life for us.  He's not a God that's afar off and "can't be touched by the feelings of our infirmities".  He came and walked and lived amongst us.  Amen.  :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

Jesus was human as well as divine.  Humans have maladies.  I would think (this is my mind working - I could be wrong) that Jesus' faith, His direct line to His Father, the Father ensuring His will be done in His Son, etc., would indicate Jesus' victory and authority over things as they came up in His life.  "Even the winds and seas obey Him".  So I would think He could speak the word and be instantly cured of human problems as soon as He began to experience them, whether that be a cold, allergy problems, heartburn, etc. Or did He allow Himself to suffer those things as part of bearing our sorrows, etc.?  

I imagine this post got lost in the shuffle somewhere along the line.  Either way in the above scenario, this sees God and Jesus in control - which I'd think we pretty much all could believe.

Does this bridge any gaps for anyone (if you'd let it)?   :2c:

Bridging the gap--that's what Jesus does--he is the intermediary between us and the Father.

The total stranger pointed out that he wasn't healing people, they were healed by their faith.  [imagine how this surprised me lol]  But--he is standing in the gap between their faith and the Father, as a perfect conductor.  The ability to conduct--the thing that makes him perfect--is his complete obedience [alignment with God's will.]

Now--someone please tell me what it would mean if you were living in a flesh body and finding it necessary to be obedient to death.  Would you cure yourself if [it was God's will that] you were sick?


Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


"sufferings"

G3804
πάθημα
pathēma
path'-ay-mah
From a presumed derivative of G3806; something undergone, that is, hardship or pain; subjectively an emotion or influence: - affection, affliction, motion, suffering.


Pathos


The emotion of compassion


How possible is it for us to have compassion for another if we haven't suffered ourselves?

[Beloved Servant]

Oh! He suffered!
Oh! How He suffered!

[Molly]

Oh! He suffered!
Oh! How He suffered!

But what does it mean to be obedient to death?

If I were obedient to death [which I am not since it is not required of me], then if I got sick I would not lift not one finger to cure myself--no doctor, no chicken soup, no vitamin C, no operation, no supernatural healing of myself.

He lived in a flesh body.

[micah7:9]

Molly..."The total stranger pointed out that he wasn't healing people, they were healed by their faith.  [imagine how this surprised me lol]

That person has SEEN what orthodox religion and christian theology has made a "holy thing to man."

Luk 18:8  I say to you, that He will execute the justice to them quickly; but the Son of Man having come, shall he find the faith upon the earth?'
Mat 16:8  And Jesus having known, said to them, `Why reason ye in yourselves, ye of little faith, because ye took no loaves?
Wonderful and Beautiful Molly...Thank you and God Bless

[Quaesitor]

But isn't Jesus the author and perfector of our faith?

[Beloved Servant]

Molly,
I believe it is required of us to be obedient unto death. Resurrection comes by way of the grave.

[micah7:9]

Resurection comes by the way of death.

[Cardinal]

There is a chemistry or a metaphysics going on here.  You put your finger on it.  He is cleansing that which is unclean by coming into direct contact with it.

:cloud9: Going to read the last few pages after this one, but didn't want to lose my "place" with this quote. Molly, you put YOUR finger on it, it's a precept He opened my eyes to awhile back.

Romans 8:3
King James Version
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The flesh He condemned the sin in, WAS HIS OWN.

And before I go "there", let me go "here"...... :winkgrin:

Please note that God sent His own Son IN THE LIKENESS OF, sinful flesh. That means that God's Son IS NOT THE LIKENESS OF THE SINFUL FLESH HE CAME IN. God was in Christ reconciling all men unto Himself. Every seed bears fruit after it's own kind, and God is a Spirit and His "seed" therefore, IS SPIRIT.

It said He was without sin (sin used here as in wrong MOTIVE OF THE HEART, ie. without sinful motive), BUT He was in the likeness of sinful flesh. That flesh, as we read above, had sin in it (sin used here as the residue of curses since the fall).

So because He had no wrong motive of the heart sin (He said He only said and did that which came from/pleased His Father), the "residue sin" that is empowered by the law, WAS CONDEMNED IN HIS FLESH.

That means in that "residue sin", He took on some which cause sickness, but because He had no "wrong motive sin" THAT SEED of "residue sin" could not produce fruit ="The prince of this world cometh, but he hath nothing in Me".

Hard to put this one into words, hope it struck a chord in someone.  :happy3: Blessings.....

[Cardinal]

Christ was under The Law, the law determined cleanliness until Christ's Passion was settled and he gave up the ghost, not the law of grace and inclusion of gentiles.

A sickly Jesus is an unfit sacrifice - unaccepted sacrifice, and we are dead in our sins.

:cloud9: The flesh profiteth nothing. Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom, so His natural blood was not required or used to cleanse the heavenly things, either. Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

I "see" it, Card.

But that does not mean that it ever took hold in his flesh.
Though on earth, He was in heaven, body, soul and spirit.

[Beloved Servant]

"I and the Father are one."

[Molly]

wow, Cardinal!  It's the sin offering. There's your scapegoat, ww.

Leviticus 16:5

5And he shall take from the congregation of the people of Israel two male goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.

But, the law is weakened by the flesh, until Jesus condemns sin in the flesh.

wow and wow :mshock:

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

--Rom 8


He made the flesh irrelevant!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Meant to add this......I read many years ago, an account of a woman who said she was taken to heaven and talked with Jesus. The thing that stood out to me in her account that I have never forgotten (and maybe now I know why), was that she said He let her feel what He feels regarding humanity's PAIN, SICKNESS, AND SUFFERINGS.

She said it was only for a few seconds, or she would have lost her mind, but it gave her such a deep reverence and compassion for what He suffered/SUFFERS, being TOUCHED WITH OUR INFIRMITIES. Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

MARK 15:25-37
25 And it was the THIRD hour, and they crucified him.
26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
27 And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.
28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
29 And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,
30 Save thyself, and come down from the cross.
31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.
32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
33 And when the SIXTH hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the NINTH hour.

Perhaps for those 3 hours there was no light in His flesh.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Wow, are we in sync, Beloved......this was just running thru my spirit, too.....

And Molly something else you posted above struck me and is resonating in me as I wait for understanding here....it's this.....

Leviticus 16:5

5And he shall take from the congregation of the people of Israel two male goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.

Never noticed this before.......two male goats/two thieves, one ram/one Christ. Also, can see this as, wherever two of you are gathered in My name/nature, there I am in the midst of you. I just saw this connection in a whole new way, because the goat nature IS the one of taking on the image of sinful flesh.

This is hard to express because it's not formed in ME fully yet, but this "looks" like another UR validation because it points to Him being the mediator (in the midst) for ALL MEN again, even those with the goat nature ("unsaved"). Wow..... :mshock:

Also; it was brought to my remembrance this week about the tent having GOATS skins as covering. Which is interesting as well, since the Tabernacle is not only a pattern of Him, but of ALL OF MANKIND. Blessings....