death:an ending?

[Molly]

I understand what you are saying, Lefein.

He has to be physically as well as morally [spiritually] without spot or blemish to fulfill the law.

So now the question becomes --would a Jesus carrying the sickness of the world make him any more blemished or spotted than a Jesus carrying the moral sin of the world?

We have to look to scripture for that answer.  

Don't forget, he also has to be a Lamb.  That is a young sheep.  A baby.  Not full grown.

Lots of questions.

[Lefein]

Bitterness, anger, and weaknes is what I am hearing.

Then you are unfortunately, quite deaf.

Jesus was no weaker because He became sick. Jesus is the ultimate OVERCOMER.

Sickness is a corruption, and distortion of the body.  Jesus was never corrupt, or corrupted.

G3528
From G3529; to subdue (literally or figuratively): - conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory.G3529
Apparently a primary word; conquest (abstractly), that is, (figuratively) the means of success: - victory.
one cant overcome, subdue, conquer, prevail,get victory UNLESS ONE HAD SOMETHING TO overcome, subdue, conquer, prevail,get victory.

It still doesn't mean he was ever once corrupted by any disease, for any length of time, any more than bleach is stained by the dirt that it overwhelms, and destroys.

Molly:

It all comes down to Jesus being a cleansing agent.  Jesus is for all intents and purposes, the world's Bleach.  Bleach does not become stained by the stain it engulfs and removes.

[Molly]

Molly:

It all comes down to Jesus being a cleansing agent.  Jesus is for all intents and purposes, the world's Bleach.  Bleach does not become stained by the stain it engulfs and removes.

Yes, bleach.  Great metaphor!  So you add bleach to the wash and everything comes out white and clean.  The bleach is still bleach even though it is now mingled with the stain it has removed.

Jesus is my superhero, too.  

If you don't add the bleach to the wash, it will never become clean.  Isn't it possible that the wash is also the [diseased] body as well as the [diseased] spirit?

How did God survive being mingled with our [diseased and fallen] bodies that are dying all day long?

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Philippians 2:8
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!

[WhiteWings]

^YLTActs 10
12 in which were all the four-footed beasts of the earth, and the wild beasts, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the heaven,
13 and there came a voice unto him: `Having risen, Peter, slay and eat.'
14 And Peter said, `Not so, Lord; because at no time did I eat anything common or unclean;'
15 and there is a voice again a second time unto him: `What God did cleanse, thou, declare not thou common;'

So things that are unclean because the law states so, are no longer unclean if cleansed by God.
People avoided all kind of things and people because there were many ways to become unclean. But Jesus didn't avoid such people.
Could it be that Jesus was cleansed by God?
A normal, animal, lamb needed to be healty and not deformed in any way.
But what if God cleansed that lamb? Wouldn't that override the law?
Even if Jesus was not sick He didn't look hansom.
^EBRIsa 53
2 When he came up as a sapling before him, And as a root–sprout out of dry ground, He had neither beauty nor majesty,––When we beheld him, there was nothing to behold, that we should desire him;

Only good looking/"hansom" animal lambs were allowed to be sacrificed.
Does that mean Lamb Jesus was unfit for sacrifice? Or was it ok because He was cleansed by God...

[Molly]

he...became obedient to death.

How many times could you read that and not see it?  In my case, a lot, because I never saw it before today.

If God chose to give him a body that was supersensitive to all the disease in the world, even riddled with disease, he could no more cure himself than he could strike down the centurions that came to arrest him--and still be obedient...in this case, to death.

[Lefein]

So things that are unclean because the law states so, are no longer unclean if cleansed by God.

When you're under The Law and planning on being a sacrifice...you'd best obey The Law to the fullest, and Jesus didn't err in a single point of it - that includes cleanliness.

You can't wash a garment with dirty water.

Sickness is corruption, you can't uncorrupt something if you yourself are corrupted.  It is as impossible as hating your brother and at the same time supposedly being full of love.

People avoided all kind of things and people because there were many ways to become unclean. But Jesus didn't avoid such things/people.

Jesus is Holy, Jesus is the "Bleach of the World", he is uncorruptable, Emmanuel, without the "Original Sin" being born of a virgin, the only begotten son of God, God - The Word in flesh.

God is perfect, you can't corrupt God, God is an all consuming fire, sin has no ability to infect him in any way.  Hence he can heal the sick and be clean, even keeping The Law.

Could it be that Jesus was cleansed by God?

That insinuates that he'd even need "cleansing" in the first place.  Jesus isn't some mere prophet I'll remind you.  He isn't the Jesus of Islam.

A normal, animal, lamb needed to be healty and not deformed in any way.
But what if God cleansed that lamb? Wouldn't that override the law?
Even if Jesus was not sick He didn't look hansom.

Put it into context; Jesus was scourged, and whipped, and shamed - That is why people didn't "desire him", who would want to follow a king that has been seemingly dethroned and not just dethroned but disgraced?

None, to Few.

[Molly]

...who would want to follow a king that has been seemingly dethroned and not just dethroned but disgraced?

Nobody!  And, nobody did! lol

Every word out of your mouth is just blessing me more and more, Lefein.

I so wish I could return the favor. :gangel:

This is why the Jews missed him [along with just about everyone else].  They weren't expecting what they were seeing as the Messiah.

Luke 18:32
For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:




And kneeling before him, they mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 30And they spit on him and took the reed and struck him on the head.

--Mat 27

[Lefein]

Every word out of your mouth is just blessing me more and more, Lefein.

I so wish I could return the favor.

It is my honour, and privilege for God to bless you through me. :)

[jabcat]

A little reminder for us all;  doesn't hurt to do this once in awhile in case some have missed it.   :thumbsup:

Posting -   http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=8684.msg105066#msg105066

[WhiteWings]

Could it be that Jesus was cleansed by God?

That insinuates that he'd even need "cleansing" in the first place.

I was not insinuating such a thing. I mean He didn't get unclean when he touched/cured ill people.

When you're under The Law and planning on being a sacrifice...you'd best obey The Law to the fullest, and Jesus didn't err in a single point of it - that includes cleanliness.

One of those laws in not to touch sick people or even come near them.

A normal, animal, lamb needed to be healty and not deformed in any way.
But what if God cleansed that lamb? Wouldn't that override the law?
Even if Jesus was not sick He didn't look hansom.

Put it on context; Jesus was scourged, and whipped, and shamed - That is why people didn't "desire him", who would want to follow a king that has been seemingly dethroned and not just dethroned but disgraced?

So according to you Isa 53:2 is describing the last hours of His eartly life?
If so we disagree again.

Jesus is Holy, Jesus is the "Bleach of the World", he is uncorruptable, Emmanuel, without the "Original Sin" being born of a virgin, the only begotten son of God, God - The Word in flesh.

^YLTHeb 2
7 Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands,

Although He was a great man, teacher and Son of God when on earth He was not 'at His full power'.
He was a made a little less than messengers. Before and after His life on earth He was and is far higher than messengers.
To me that means He was here with limited powers.

[Lefein]

I was not insinuating such a thing. I mean He didn't get unclean when he touched/cured ill people.

All the more reason that Jesus was never sick.

One of those laws in not to touch sick people or even come near them.

So Jesus sinned?  I'll be honest, that punches Christianity in the face and leaves it dead.

...Unless, Jesus was never infected by those whom he touched - or the air, or dirt, or substances he touched...and remained perfectly clean through out his whole life by means of his nature as Godhead/Word in Flesh.

Do recall, he said - "I AM" and he also said - "I am the way, the truth, and the life".  He never once said "I will be life".  Life is truth, death is distortion, lie, absence, and a void.  Life is not destroyed by an absence, truth is not pierced by lies.  Hence Life is not pierced by corruption that is the decay of Death.

Jesus did not die until he gave up the ghost - Gave up the ghost, until he by his own volition laid his life down to three days later take it up again.  Death did not invade Jesus, it was Jesus who invaded Death.

I'll be bold to say with great adoration that Jesus Christ my Lord and God, even in his dying bleeding, broken flesh could have hung on that cross for eons still alive if he so chose to.  It was he who controlled the war with Death and Sin, it was not the other way around.

So according to you Isa 53:2 is describing the last hours of His eartly life?
If so we disagree again.

Scripture interprets Scripture - and by that it is far more likely that it was a prophecy about his Passion...Not about his ministry where throngs of people literally followed him everywhere he went - if that isn't desire, then nothing is.

People don't follow a no body.

Although He was a great man, teacher and Son of God when on earth He was not 'at His full power'.
He was a made a little less than messengers. Before and after His life on earth He was and is far higher than messengers.
To me that means He was here with limited powers.

None of which where not by his own volition and cooperation - limited.  He was at his full power, he had the power to lay down his life and take it up again, call down legions of angels, raise the dead, transfigure on the mount to reveal his glory, feed the multitudes, and heal uncounted droves of the sick, dead, and maimed, turn water into wine, he even had the power to forgive sins.  He wasn't nearly as constrained as we'd like to believe, he volunteered himself to meek use of his might, but lost none of it even in the womb.

[WhiteWings]

One of those laws in not to touch sick people or even come near them.

So Jesus sinned?  I'll be honest, that punches Christianity in the face and leaves it dead.

My conclusion is different. Jesus never sinned.

So according to you Isa 53:2 is describing the last hours of His eartly life?
If so we disagree again.

Scripture interprets Scripture - and by that it is far more likely that it was a prophecy about his Passion...Not about his ministry where throngs of people literally followed him everywhere he went - if that isn't desire, then nothing is.

People don't follow a no body.

Jesus wasn't a nobody. Many were amazed by His teachings and healings. But that doesn't automaticly mean they desire Him for His great looks.

^KJV+Isa 53
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground @: he hath no form nor comeliness ; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

He was also that way when He grew up. So that that verse is not about the last hours of His life.

Although He was a great man, teacher and Son of God when on earth He was not 'at His full power'.
He was a made a little less than messengers. Before and after His life on earth He was and is far higher than messengers.
To me that means He was here with limited powers.

None of which where not by his own volition and cooperation - limited.
He was at his full power,[/quote]
"He was MADE a little lower..." To me that sound different from: "He was much higher but didn't use the powers."

he had the power to lay down his life and take it up again.

^YLTActs 2
24 whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it,

So Father raised the Son. Jesus didn't do that Himself.

[willieH]

I'll just say it plainly...

The Holy Bible never once says that Jesus was sick a day in his life...Therefore, he was healthy.

To say that Jesus Christ, The Healer was riddled with disease - is blasphemy.

FIRST --- I do not see anyone other than YOU suggesting that -- He was RIDDLED" with disease... Neither is it "up to you" to decide what IS or IS NOT, ..."blasphemy"!!  :dontknow:

Many in this discussion are contending that He did deal with infirmities while living upon the earth... having experienced human life in detail, which familiarizes Him and ACQUAINTS Him with us and our predicament... in DETAIL.

SECOND --- As far as the "silence" of The WORD, it also does not SAY that He breathed air... or that He ate brocolli... or that He went to the toilet... But He likely did all these things and much more...

However, in His own words, He proposed that the pharisees would request that He HEAL HIMSELF... now logically,  ...WHY would HE suggest that they make such a request, unless there was OBVIOUS evidence that HE needed healing?  :dunno2:  (In this passage, He had just referred to HEALINGS which had been done in Capernaum, as well as to Himself as a PHYSICIAN)... Luke 4:23

And Jesus is God!

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm < a quick reference for guidance...

FIRST --- Guidance?  All we need is the WORD and the Holy Spirit, for "guidance"...  :idea2:

SECOND --- Why did you use a computer link as your verification?  Why not QUOTE the WORD? ...Maybe because, ...The WORD does not SAY that JESUS is "God incarnate"?

THIRD --- The WORD does not SAY that JESUS IS GOD...

You believe this (theological proposition) irregardless of the fact that this is NOT WRITTEN, then insist that other things concerning His experience  with infirmities cannot be so, because you claim no mention is made of them... whattupwidat?   :dunno:

Please do not attempt to refer to "But unto the Son, thy throne O God, is forever and ever" -- Heb 1:8 -- for in this, is the HEART of YHVH (which IS the Father) ...giving the SPOKEN WORD (which IS the Son) its rightful due, for it is the EXACT audible and written EXPRESSION of the HEART of YHVH, as is noted in the context which also specifically notes the Son to be the EXPRESS IMAGE of HIS PERSON -- Heb 1:3 -- NOT another "person"... an IMAGE is NOT the person, it is a projection OF the PERSON.

The FATHER is the emergent point of ORIGIN of the Son... which makes the Son an OFFSPRING which emerged from Him -- Heb 1:5

He is NOT giving due to the MAN JESUS CHRIST, who did NOTHING OF HIMSELF -- John 5:19 -- rather, CHRIST did EVERYTHING that GOD directed Him, via PROPHECY, to do... :nod:

The HEART of YHVH is Father to the WORD which is SPOKEN...

Just as it is with you or I.  The words you speak are NOT a separate person from yourself... they are a PROJECTION of the person you ARE (in your heart), conveyed in audible or written expression, to others.  :dontknow:

All men are GODS -- Psalm 82:6 -- because YHVH says we are... and it is because we ETERNALLY have our ORIGIN within Him... He does NOT CHANGE... so all Creation amounts to, is a REVELATION of Himself, and that which is within Him.

We have always been, as has Creation, for the "Creation" is the revelation of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL which is a portion of ETERNAL KNOWLEDGE known by, and NOW being EXPRESSED by YHVH God who is WORKING ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11

The REVELATION of ALL THINGS has been withheld by YHVH... And we are amidst that "ALL" being presently revealed...  

You are welcome to remain where you are brother Lefein... and disagree all you like... but I challenge you to refute what I have just said.  :dontknow:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Lefein]

Jesus wasn't a nobody. Many were amazed by His teachings and healings. But that doesn't automaticly mean they desire Him for His great looks.

You assume I'm talking about looks, that is incorrect.

I am talking about Power, Presence, Authority.

"He was MADE a little lower..." To me that sound different from: "He was much higher but didn't use the powers."

Made; as in "I was made in my mother's womb".

So Father raised the Son. Jesus didn't do that Himself.

Son = God = Father

You are welcome to remain where you are brother Lefein... and disagree all you like... but I challenge you to refute what I have just said.

Not until I can actually read it, and not get a splitting headache.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Lefein...  :happygrin:

You are welcome to remain where you are brother Lefein... and disagree all you like... but I challenge you to refute what I have just said.

Not until I can actually read it, and not get a splitting headache.

More excuses... :pitiful: You live in a world of color, you must have headaches all the time...

I guess its a shame for you that God didn't make the world Black & white, so you wouldn't have to cope with the color in it.

Doesn't matter to me if you respond or not...  :dontknow:

Bottom line, ...this means my post shall stand unopposed by you... for without the benefit of excuses, you do not have the ability to refute it.  :dontknow:  

:Peace:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Molly]

Every word out of your mouth is just blessing me more and more, Lefein.

I so wish I could return the favor.

It is my honour, and privilege for God to bless you through me. :)

:mfriends:

[thinktank]

 :hithere:  Hello Willie it's your friendly neighbourhood nemesis  :laughing7:

It seems you got yourself in a sticky situation by denying the divinity of Jesus, I can't believe you said that  :mshock: But then again  :laughing7:

But your entitled to your opinion which is UNFOUNDED in the WORD, which you seemingly know a great deal about, but not enough it seems. I hope my word will be a blessing to you and to others as the holy spirit guides them.


1.  Where does it SAY in the WORD, that JESUS (the man) was "God incarnate"?

Romans
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, [1] condemned sin in the flesh:

So here we have God sending his son in the likness of flesh. So this confirms that the son did indeed exist before entering the world in the likness of human flesh.


Again the same here
Romans
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

So God spared his son. So Jesus is not simply a product/created being that God created during the time of Mary, but rather he existed before incarnating inside Mary's womb.

2.  The WORD says that GOD is EVERLASTING... CHRIST died, therefore was not "everlasting", as He spent time in DEATH (interrupting LIFE) and was not ALIVE... How can it therefore be said that He was GOD which is EVER LASTING (without interruption of LIFE)?

I do not have a precise answer to this  :mshock: but I have two possible answers

1. God died in flesh and his earthly tabernacle, or his temple was destroyed but he continues to exist in spirit, by preaching to the spirits in prison and also meeting the thief on the cross in spirit.

2. If Jesus ceased to exist, God still exists (Father and holy spirit) albeit missing one of their members but still operational. The promise given to Jesus is that God will not leave his soul in hell and thus God is resurected again to life. God dying, seems impossible, but didn't the father say, SACRIFICE my only son.


3.  The WORD says that GOD cannot be tempted with evil -- James 1:13 -- yet also says that CHRIST was tempted -- Heb 4:15 -- is the WORD contradictory?  Or maybe indeed, the understanding of men as they observe that WORD, that is in contradiction?  :dontknow:

God cannot be tempted with evil, neither can God tempt,  but yet Abraham was tempted by God.

Two possible answers

1. Jesus was God yet, he came in the form of a man and man can be tempted with evil. Good example of Jesus is imagine a F40 ferrari engine stuffed inside a mini, now the ferrari engine can only do so much inside the limitations of the mini and in all sense and purposes the car is not called a ferrari but a mini.

2. God is not limited by his word for he can do the impossible, the temptations of Jesus were there to prove him

Luke 4:13  
And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season

1 Corinthians 10:13  
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye
may be able to bear it.


4.  The WORD says via the WORDS of CHRIST Himself, that He has a "god" -- Mark 15:34 -- How can GOD have a "god"?  (I do not mean this in ANY WAY, to sound at all disrespectful toward the Lord JESUS CHRIST), ...But are you saying that CHRIST is His own "God"?  :dontknow:


Jesus has a question for you willie

Mathew
Jesus Willie, 42, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?


5.  How can CHRIST be a SON of God, and GOD also (a SON being an "offspring")?

John 5:18  
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God

Is Jesus God?

Philippians 2:6  
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God   :dsunny:  :icon_king:

Who else can claim to be equal with God? and don't say David Beckam  :soccer:  :laughing7:

Man and woman? Isn't the wife regarded as the weaker sex, but yet equal to the husband?

Feminist theology can wait for another day. We are dealing with the common factor here, not the potentials or the unique woman who can compete with men.

Also women bring in their own unique strengths, which do not compete with men, but a strength which is not so much valued today, but that's another story.


6. The WORD says that GOD is not a MAN -- Num 23:19 -- but also notes that CHRIST was a MAN -- 1 Tim 2:5 -- and that this MAN was a mediator between GOD and MAN...  If He is GOD, then does He "mediate" between Himself and Himself?


He mediates between man and his father who is greater than all. The problem is that you deny the three therefore it is imposible to come to an adequate answer. It is only when men accept the teachings of Christ above the doctrines of men, that they can understand the relationship between the three. Whom do you choose this day, men or Christ?

Here is a powerful revelation I received only recently

Genesis
18And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

I'd like to see you intellectually wriggle your way through this one  :laughing7:
Who do you suppose the three represent? And please don't say the three wise men  :grin:


7.  Did a portion of GOD, die?  If so, then that portion of God (Him/them) is NOT PERFECT... for PERFECTION (which means COMPLETE) does not change (nor does it need to)... CHRIST (the man) went from LIFE to DEATH then back to LIFE, which is a notation and progression of change.

This is your opinion of what perfection represents, you have used this argument many times but doesn't really add up as proof as such. But if we take on board what you say, then perhaps it means that Jesus when he died continued to live, so it means your idea of perfection continues (As I explained on one of my answers previously).

Please explain how it can be stated that He was TOUCHED "with the FEELING of our infirmities" -- Heb 4:15 -- when (according to you) He had no experience with them at all?

There's a big difference between experiencing our infirmity, in let's say the garden of gethsame, where he was in such pain that he sweated blood, perhaps here he experinced some kind of disease or suffering, but that does not mean that Jesus spent his lifetime being sick, oh no Jesus was a man of faith the scriptures say that the child grew and had great knowledge of the scriptures, even going to the temples to learn.
You see that Jesus since his childhood was taught and he grew, this means he was not God, but yet was God. In other words he was God but yet became like us, in order to bethe perfect sacrifice without blemish.
The faith he had is the same faith that we have access to, we can in fact do the same miracles he did and even more, but living a holy life the same as Jesus did is paramount to achieving these kinds of miracles, the other major difference between us and him is that he was created sinless and never sinned not once throughout his life.


Please explain how it can be stated that He was TOUCHED "with the FEELING of our infirmities" -- Heb 4:15 -- when (according to you) He had no experience with them at all?  

That is just like a MAN, stating to a WOMAN amidst childbirth -- "I know" what you're going through"...  :rolleye:

Like I explained in the "comedy section" I did, how can Christ say I know what you going through to a woman in child birth? Please answer that?

He sweated blood in the garden of gethsame, isn't that enough? Hasn't the lord suffered enough already, but yet you want to say he suffered sickness throughout his life, even though he never sinned?


Crucifixtion, beatings, humiliations are definitely sorrowful endurings, but are not the SAME as enduring the INFIRMITIES of disease.  I got my butt kicked more than once being raised in East Los Angeles...  :swordfight:  ...but those beatings, as sorrowful as they were, do not compare to, nor are they the SAME experience as the CANCER that I am presently battling!  :mnah:

I'm sure that cancer is a tough disease to battle and only sufferers know what it's like, but  :mshock: cruxification not the same? How can you boast and say your disease is far worse than what the lord had to go through?

Here's a scripture for you

1 Peter 4:12  
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

Also the old testament saints

Hebrews 11:36  
And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:


To finish on a positive note heres a scripture of encouragment
3 John 1:2  
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

[WhiteWings]

Jesus wasn't a nobody. Many were amazed by His teachings and healings. But that doesn't automaticly mean they desire Him for His great looks.

You assume I'm talking about looks, that is incorrect.
I am talking about Power, Presence, Authority.

I know that. But it seems you misunderstood me .
Surely Jesus was followed by many for because He did healings and gave great teachings.
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness ; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Does the blue part sound like "Presense"
Or the red part as "Power

"He was MADE a little lower..." To me that sounds different from: "He was much higher but didn't use the powers."

Made; as in "I was made in my mother's womb".

But still lower.

So Father raised the Son. Jesus didn't do that Himself.

Son = God = Father

Trinity is a forbidden subject on this forum. But I think you already know my view on the Trinity. I also know your view and understand that "forces" you into a certain way of reasoning. I have no illusion I can change your view.
You speak your mind because I'm a blasphemer according to you. That doesn't bother me a bit BTW.
I speak my mind because I would be a lie if I said "great words Lefein".
What more can I do? I show verse of illness. I showed verses of His appearance during whole/most of His life.

[WhiteWings]

Not until I can actually read it, and not get a splitting headache.

Just copy a paste....
Quote from: Lefein on Today at 07:51:34
I'll just say it plainly...

The Holy Bible never once says that Jesus was sick a day in his life...Therefore, he was healthy.

To say that Jesus Christ, The Healer was riddled with disease - is blasphemy.

FIRST --- I do not see anyone other than YOU suggesting that -- He was RIDDLED" with disease... Neither is it "up to you" to decide what IS or IS NOT, ..."blasphemy"!! 

Many in this discussion are contending that He did deal with infirmities while living upon the earth... having experienced human life in detail, which familiarizes Him and ACQUAINTS Him with us and our predicament... in DETAIL.

SECOND --- As far as the "silence" of The WORD, it also does not SAY that He breathed air... or that He ate brocolli... or that He went to the toilet... But He likely did all these things and much more...

However, in His own words, He proposed that the pharisees would request that He HEAL HIMSELF... now logically,  ...WHY would HE suggest that they make such a request, unless there was OBVIOUS evidence that HE needed healing?    (In this passage, He had just referred to HEALINGS which had been done in Capernaum, as well as to Himself as a PHYSICIAN)... Luke 4:23


Quote from: Lefein on Today at 07:51:34
And Jesus is God!

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm < a quick reference for guidance...


FIRST --- Guidance?  All we need is the WORD and the Holy Spirit, for "guidance"... 

SECOND --- Why did you use a computer link as your verification?  Why not QUOTE the WORD? ...Maybe because, ...The WORD does not SAY that JESUS is "God incarnate"?

THIRD --- The WORD does not SAY that JESUS IS GOD...

You believe this (theological proposition) irregardless of the fact that this is NOT WRITTEN, then insist that other things concerning His experience  with infirmities cannot be so, because you claim no mention is made of them... whattupwidat?   

Please do not attempt to refer to "But unto the Son, thy throne O God, is forever and ever" -- Heb 1:8 -- for in this, is the HEART of YHVH (which IS the Father) ...giving the SPOKEN WORD (which IS the Son) its rightful due, for it is the EXACT audible and written EXPRESSION of the HEART of YHVH, as is noted in the context which also specifically notes the Son to be the EXPRESS IMAGE of HIS PERSON -- Heb 1:3 -- NOT another "person"... an IMAGE is NOT the person, it is a projection OF the PERSON.

The FATHER is the emergent point of ORIGIN of the Son... which makes the Son an OFFSPRING which emerged from Him -- Heb 1:5

He is NOT giving due to the MAN JESUS CHRIST, who did NOTHING OF HIMSELF -- John 5:19 -- rather, CHRIST did EVERYTHING that GOD directed Him, via PROPHECY, to do...

The HEART of YHVH is Father to the WORD which is SPOKEN...

Just as it is with you or I.  The words you speak are NOT a separate person from yourself... they are a PROJECTION of the person you ARE (in your heart), conveyed in audible or written expression, to others. 

All men are GODS -- Psalm 82:6 -- because YHVH says we are... and it is because we ETERNALLY have our ORIGIN within Him... He does NOT CHANGE... so all Creation amounts to, is a REVELATION of Himself, and that which is within Him.

We have always been, as has Creation, for the "Creation" is the revelation of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL which is a portion of ETERNAL KNOWLEDGE known by, and NOW being EXPRESSED by YHVH God who is WORKING ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11

The REVELATION of ALL THINGS has been withheld by YHVH... And we are amidst that "ALL" being presently revealed... 

You are welcome to remain where you are brother Lefein... and disagree all you like... but I challenge you to refute what I have just said. 

[micah7:9]

Removed by Micah

[Lefein]

Does the blue part sound like "Presense"
Or the red part as "Power

The people expected a king dear friend, a glorious shining king, wrapped in cherubim, and calling down the Angels of Heaven to tear off the shackles of the political oppression of Rome, to set up Israel as the dominating empire on the earth, with a king on the throne who would reign over men, and make the sons of Jacob rich, and glorified beyond their wildest dreams...

Yet he came as a shepherd for the people, and a carpenter's son...Dying on a cross, spit on, and shamed, disgraced.

None of it had anything to do with him being sickly throughout his life, or even the colour of his hair or eyes, or the shape of his face, his weight, or anything for that matter.

But still lower.

The fullness of God is indwelt in cohabitation with my spirit, I am still beneath the angels not being raised to glory myself - yet all things are under my feet in Christ.

Christ is infinitely greater, and was indeed infinitely greater than any Christian today even while he was in the womb.

"I believe"  (for you Jab ^^)

I also know your view and understand that "forces" you into a certain way of reasoning.

I am no slave to any doctrine, so don't assume it.  It is an offense to me to say it.  I am a child of Truth, and Truth is my guide.  Do not insinuate otherwise.

I have no illusion I can change your view.

And neither is it your place to try.

You speak your mind because I'm a blasphemer according to you. That doesn't bother me a bit BTW.

It isn't my goal to "bother you".  I have left you in the Lord's hands for that.

I speak my mind because I would be a lie if I said "great words Lefein".

I'm not here for your approval.  I'm here to show myself approved from above.

What more can I do?

For starters, you can try to find valid verses, and list them in a way that isn't disguised under articles.

I show verse of illness. I showed verses of His appearance during whole/most of His life.

None of them showed a sickly Jesus, not one, not once.

[Lefein]

Just copy a paste....

I refuse, I am protesting WillieH's format entirely.  I will not go through hoops to try and get bread out of "piles upon piles of unnecessary...stuff".

[Quaesitor]

I've been observing for a while and I think this thread has went to a point of no longer edify anyone and it could get worse.
My personal opinion is that it should be closed.

Please brothers respect where each of us are by the grace of God in our understanding of the Word and of God.

It is not our place nor do we have the capacity to change each others views, it is by God's Spirit only.

Peace

[Beloved Servant]

If Jesus could get sick, could he catch a fatal disease?

Or could He only catch non-fatal diseases?

[Lefein]

Indeed Beloved Servant - At any rate, he certainly should have caught leprosy if he was so disease-able...The whole reason lepers where ostracised was because it was so contagious.

Yet another reason I believe it was highly, highly unlikely that he ever got sick, or was "capable" (if such a word could be used properly) of getting sick / being corrupted bodily.