Genesis

[WhiteWings]

Have you actually read any of my posts? (they started before the WillieH-posting-color-debate)
It really puzzles me why you ask me about 6000 years.... :dontknow:

[shawn]

Have you actually read any of my posts? (they started before the WillieH-posting-color-debate)
It really puzzles me why you ask me about 6000 years.... :dontknow:

Because TT believes in a 6000 yr old earth and that's who I was speaking about.

[micah7:9]

In several of my posts I have stated that I believe, at least to this point, that Gen. 1,2,3,4 are allegories.
I know that that kind of reasoning brings conflict. My faith is not weakened in anyway should Genesis be an allegory or should it be a real earthy history.
I believe that Noah's ark is Christ, I know that the Ark of the Covenant is Christ, I know that the wilderness experience is a shadow and type, all the OT is shadow and type.
The history of the Hebrews of the old testament is true I have no doubt, but I do not believe the "history of the Hebrews(Jews)" is what the Word of God wants, the believer to retrieve from His Word. It is important to understand what God wants us to know and I do not believe it is the history of a people to be the apex to our understanding. Jesus said  Joh 4:23  But a time is coming--nay, has already come--when the true worshippers will worship the Father with true spiritual worship; for indeed the Father desires such worshippers.
Joh 4:24  God is Spirit; and those who worship Him must bring Him true spiritual worship."
And Joh 6:63  It is the spirit which gives Life. The flesh confers no benefit whatever. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and are Life.
This tells me that we as saints and believers need glean the spiritual understanding that is hidden in the OT rather than debate the "time and times" of the "things" of the OT and Genesis.
What say you? (I stole that speak from O'Riely  )

[Quaesitor]

Growing up, I was taught that the earth was created in 6 days.
Then I had to ignore was I was taught at school about evolution, and the earth being billions years old and dinosaurs. These were a big ploy  builtby thousands of scientists to undermine God...

But a few years ago, I read a book from a french theologian that there were christian scientists who believed in a old earth creationism.
I then learned about the word day which could have the meaning of indetermined period of time.

I didn't really decide anything but I knew that from now on I wouldn't be caught in weird conversation with evolutionnist, I had answers which made sense to both of us.

So if there was really an Adam or if it is a story to explain what happened to the fisrt humans, the importance is in the spiritual symbolism.

Honestly, how many people have rejected christianity as a myth because of the talking serpent literalist argue existed.
It makes so much more sense in understand that it was Eve's flesh that seduced her, her carnal nature.

So yeah, without discarding the historical nature of the Bible, we have to read it with our spiritual understanding.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, it's like peeling back the layers of an onion.....

[thinktank]

Have you actually read any of my posts? (they started before the WillieH-posting-color-debate)
It really puzzles me why you ask me about 6000 years.... :dontknow:

Because TT believes in a 6000 yr old earth and that's who I was speaking about.

The age of the earth is not my biggest concern, but that mankind was created from the dust of the ground as the scriptures say. I don't see any scripture which points to a subhuman design that got upgraded in Adam.
A sub human would also mean it evolved to become as Adam, is this what you mean Shaun? Or do you mean that God first created neathandral man and then scrapped that design and then created Adam? Or what do you mean? Do you think Genesis is an allegory, a story to portray evolution?

[Quaesitor]

Have you actually read any of my posts? (they started before the WillieH-posting-color-debate)
It really puzzles me why you ask me about 6000 years.... :dontknow:

Because TT believes in a 6000 yr old earth and that's who I was speaking about.

The age of the earth is not my biggest concern, but that mankind was created from the dust of the ground as the scriptures say. I don't see any scripture which points to a subhuman design that got upgraded in Adam.
A sub human would also mean it evolved to become as Adam, is this what you mean Shaun? Or do you mean that God first created neathandral man and then scrapped that design and then created Adam? Or what do you mean? Do you think Genesis is an allegory, a story to portray evolution?

Wrong thread.

[thinktank]

allegories?

[Quaesitor]

Allegories of spiritual matters not allegories of more physical and historical matters.

Like Paul explained that the rock wich gave water to the Israelites was an allegory of Christ.
That it happened, where or when is unimportant considering the spiritual purpose of the story.
I personally believe it happened but I won't debate with someone about the physical possibility of a rock giving living water in the desert.

[micah7:9]

Allegorys? Just whats up with that?

[Quaesitor]

Allegorys? Just whats up with that?

??
What's the question about?

[Nathan]

Allegories, metaphors . .they are merely other words for seeing patterns in Scripture.  I guess I wasn't paying close attention to the other Genesis thread that apparently got locked.  But I've seen some comments on this thread, recent comments, I haven't read the entire thread . . .but they elude to the importance to seeing things spiritually rather than literally. 

The conversation I originally responded to was dealing with Genesis 6.  I'd like to just paste it here because it still applies to comments stated here as well if you don't mind.

-----------------------------------------------
Let me try a different approach to this. 
What if it's not our place to try to reason out these matters through our human logic at all?  What if these past, historical events really are God's way of trying to reveal spiritual truth?  If we spend all of our energy with the sign itself, how can we benefit from the spiritual truth through which the sign is trying to point to?

Why is this "sons of God sleeping with daughters of men" presented in this kind of language in the first place?  Has it ever occurred anyone to ask "how" a spirit being could become attracted to a natural being?  Who says these were angels?  Why do we have to swallow something another man has told us?  Is there anyone who has a personal revelation of what God has given them on these matters?  That "is" God's communication of choice you know.  To "reveal" to us personally rather than for us to try to perceive it mentally.

If flesh truly profits nothing, then why are we continuing to put so much emphasis on the natural understandings?  I find it interesting that we can take a word or phrase like "forever and ever" and dissect it and discuss the fact that the English translation of the original phrase given here has a completely different meaning and yet we take something like this and try to swallow it whole.

What is the spiritual message being given in this passage?  What is the type and shadow of the kingdom principles that this sign is pointing to?  What if what's on the surface here isn't the actual message? 

How about seeing sons of God being the spirit man in all of us and the daughters of men being the offspring of carnality in us?  My spirit is the man in me, my soul is the woman in me.  Our old man's nature trying to mix with our spirit nature . .. not really trying, but actually "doing" it.  Blending spiritual truth with natural reasoning producing giants?  In our natural eyes, a giant is an enlarged human . . .spiritually it's a perversion of God's creation, and for me, it's also inflating flesh. 

When we become intimately involved with taking spiritual truths and applying human knowledge, we inflate egos, personalities and mindsets which morph into doctrines, belief systems and religion.

In the middle of this, God declares he's not going to wrestle with flesh forever.  All of this emphasis on fallen angels and dirty sex, and in the middle of it all God just throws his hands up and says "it's too much!  You've gone too far!  I'm only so big! I can't handle this!! 

What if this is what Paul was referring to when he spoke of the inner wrestling that went on within him?  How many people in Scripture do you see that died at 120?  What if this all has a much deeper truth just waiting for people to go beneath the surface of what's being said so they can emerge in the mysteries of God's kingdom awaiting them?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That's very true Nathan, and I agree, but what if it's both? Both spiritual message and literal happening.....most things in there are. We are exploring all the avenues.....that's all. Blessings....

[Nathan]

Say that it "is" both . . .which one are we "called" to?  Natural?  Or spiritual?  That's all I'm saying as well.

[Quaesitor]

Allegories, metaphors . .they are merely other words for seeing patterns in Scripture.  I guess I wasn't paying close attention to the other Genesis thread that apparently got locked.  But I've seen some comments on this thread, recent comments, I haven't read the entire thread . . .but they elude to the importance to seeing things spiritually rather than literally. 

The conversation I originally responded to was dealing with Genesis 6.  I'd like to just paste it here because it still applies to comments stated here as well if you don't mind.

-----------------------------------------------
Let me try a different approach to this. 
What if it's not our place to try to reason out these matters through our human logic at all?  What if these past, historical events really are God's way of trying to reveal spiritual truth?  If we spend all of our energy with the sign itself, how can we benefit from the spiritual truth through which the sign is trying to point to?

Why is this "sons of God sleeping with daughters of men" presented in this kind of language in the first place?  Has it ever occurred anyone to ask "how" a spirit being could become attracted to a natural being?  Who says these were angels?  Why do we have to swallow something another man has told us?  Is there anyone who has a personal revelation of what God has given them on these matters?  That "is" God's communication of choice you know.  To "reveal" to us personally rather than for us to try to perceive it mentally.

If flesh truly profits nothing, then why are we continuing to put so much emphasis on the natural understandings?  I find it interesting that we can take a word or phrase like "forever and ever" and dissect it and discuss the fact that the English translation of the original phrase given here has a completely different meaning and yet we take something like this and try to swallow it whole.

What is the spiritual message being given in this passage?  What is the type and shadow of the kingdom principles that this sign is pointing to?  What if what's on the surface here isn't the actual message? 

How about seeing sons of God being the spirit man in all of us and the daughters of men being the offspring of carnality in us?  My spirit is the man in me, my soul is the woman in me.  Our old man's nature trying to mix with our spirit nature . .. not really trying, but actually "doing" it.  Blending spiritual truth with natural reasoning producing giants?  In our natural eyes, a giant is an enlarged human . . .spiritually it's a perversion of God's creation, and for me, it's also inflating flesh. 

When we become intimately involved with taking spiritual truths and applying human knowledge, we inflate egos, personalities and mindsets which morph into doctrines, belief systems and religion.

In the middle of this, God declares he's not going to wrestle with flesh forever.  All of this emphasis on fallen angels and dirty sex, and in the middle of it all God just throws his hands up and says "it's too much!  You've gone too far!  I'm only so big! I can't handle this!! 

What if this is what Paul was referring to when he spoke of the inner wrestling that went on within him?  How many people in Scripture do you see that died at 120?  What if this all has a much deeper truth just waiting for people to go beneath the surface of what's being said so they can emerge in the mysteries of God's kingdom awaiting them?

:happyclap:
Thank you Nathan, exactly!

[thinktank]

Say that it "is" both . . .which one are we "called" to?  Natural?  Or spiritual?  That's all I'm saying as well.

How about seeing sons of God being the spirit man in all of us and the daughters of men being the offspring of carnality in us?  My spirit is the man in me, my soul is the woman in me.  Our old man's nature trying to mix with our spirit nature . .. not really trying, but actually "doing" it.  Blending spiritual truth with natural reasoning producing giants?  In our natural eyes, a giant is an enlarged human . . .spiritually it's a perversion of God's creation, and for me, it's also inflating flesh.
Nathan

You touched on something I wanted to discuss on the other thread, but it's been locked by the mod "demons", (that was a joke card, honest  :mshock:)
As soon as the heavenly card  :thumbsup: opens up the thread, I'll talk more about it.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :mblush: :mshock: :laugh:  as soon as the other mods weigh in on that decision, it'll reopen. Blessings....