The two witnesses are: Israel and the church

[reFORMer]

Rev. 11:2 shows the holy city trampled by Gentiles, who occupy the outer court of the temple, which seems to contradict the idea that the moon under her feet corresponds to the outer court. The woman in ch. 12 corresponds to the temple proper; in ch. 11, the Gentiles are not "under her feet," but instead, she is trampled by them.

There are three ranks in Song of Songs (6:8-9,) "There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.  My dove, my undefiled is but one..."  This describes those who are of the one body. 

Those queens are who strive lawfully to win, to be Overcomers and bear legal inheritors in the image and exact likeness of God.

The concubines are who have intimacy with the king and even conceive by Him.  Yet they are not in Covenant and do not go according to His word.

The virgins are in the house.  They come and go and, are available to Him when there, but have as yet no transforming experience in relationship with Him.  Because the world comes and goes with them in the outer court their ranks swell and diminish, as the phases of the moon.  That, as well as God desiring to be merciful, counting perhaps even the rest of the world in His outer court, the apostle is told to not measure.  In time of trouble they are liable to be trampled underfoot by the world who is counted among them, just as the moon is much pocked by being struck again and again by other bodies, wanderers in the heavenlies.  Here is the carnal mind that is trampled under by the nations (or, gentiles,) the cultures into which we are born in Adam.

[Doug]

Two witnesses are represented by two trees, which John calls olive trees.

There were two trees in the garden of Eden, one of which was forbidden to Adam and Eve. Adam represents man, the "lord of the earth." After they ate its fruit, they realized they were naked, and so they were expelled from the garden, which is the spiritual home of man.

One of the trees in the garden was the tree of life, which represents the Spirit of God. Since the first couple were banished from the garden, and so were denied access to the tree of life, death was introduced.

The other tree represents the word of God, which to us, means the scriptures, but to Adam meant the instruction he received from God regarding the forbidden tree. From the scriptures, we obtain the knowledge about good, and about evil. "For by the law is the knowledge of sin." [Romans 3:20]

The garden of Eden was a place where man had access to the tree of life, but the first couple were exiled from it. Cherubims, and a flaming sword were put east of the garden of Eden to guard the tree of life.

Genesis 3:24
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

"Fire" and a "sword" are metaphors also used for the scriptures. The word of God is represented by a sword, that goes forth out of the mouth of Christ.

Revelation 1:16
And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

In the Old Testament, the promised land replaces the Garden of Eden, but on a national scale. A garden was suitable for two people to dwell in, but a much larger area would be needed for a nation. This is the promised land. It was where the two trees would continue to exist.

Revelation 11:4
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the Lord of the earth.

The two trees also have the role of lamps, or candlesticks, in the world, as they provide light, in the spiritual darkness.

The loss of man's first home in Eden, and the desire for a restored fellowship with God, are background ideas, that underlie Israel's land promises, and their taking possession of the land, and occupying it, and their removal from it, at the time of the exile. Who can fail to see the parallel between the Genesis story of man's exile from the paradise of Eden, and Israel's exile from the promised land?

The land promise, and its spiritual intent, as a symbol of a place where man has access to the tree of life, and the invisible things promised to the saints, is a theme evident throughout the Old Testament. Dispensationalists, who limit the promise to a literal territory, that is to be possessed by ethnic Jews, have missed the point.

Nathan Pitchford says, "The Abrahamic promise, then, could never be eternal unless something other than the physical land of Palestine is fundamentally intended by the promise. And if something other than the physical land is intended by the promise, then it would be vastly beneficial for us to ascertain the nature of this original intention, together with the ramifications that it has for our understanding of God's unfolding plan of redemption."

The Old Testament saints and prophets sought the truth that is represented by the tree of life.
   
The prophecy of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 throws some light on the present condition of the church, and the Spirit, and the role of the scriptures in the world. The two witnesses are described as corpses lying in the street. Their reviving again suggests what we can expect to happen in the future.

The prophecy of the two witnesses itself illustrates the fulfillment of the prophecy. The proliferation of theories, and interpretations of this prophecy, along with other prophecies, is one of the means by which the two witnesses are killed by the beast, and the general vagueness and uncertainty about the meaning of the prophecy, fits the description of the two witnesses as lifeless corpses, lying in the street.

The world rejoices over their demise. They can point with glee to scores of misguided "prophets" over the past few centuries, who claimed to be one of them! One pastor said that during his career he had met 26 people who each claimed to be one of the two witnesses. Thus the prophecy depicts the state of the witness of the gospel in the world today, as well as the spiritual condition of the church.

The beast from the pit seeks to destroy the two trees, and extinguish their light. The beast seduces Christians, by its faithless attitude to the scriptures.

Daniel 8:23-24
And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dispensationalists apply the promises of God to ethnic Jews, rather than to the saints.
Scholars exalt their own opinions above the two witnesses, and see themselves as critics of the teachings of the apostles. According to them, Peter and John were rivals of Paul. They segregate the Jewish saints from Gentile believers, whereas Paul said they were all one in Christ. They separate the church from its foundations, which Paul said, are the prophets and the apostles. [Ephesians 2:20-21]

By promoting many flawed interpretations, men bring an evil reputation on the message of the prophets, and the true gospel.

2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

There is a connection between the two trees, and the promised land. The revelations of God to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, were about a promised land. The history in the Old Testament is about Israel possessing their promised land, occupying it, and then losing it. Then, the prophets spoke of a restoration to the land.

The ministry of Jesus was conducted entirely within the promised land. The Spirit was given to the disciples when they were at Jerusalem, and after that, the influence of the Spirit extended world wide.

The two trees in Revelation 11:4 imply a land, or a place for them to grow. The land, and Jerusalem, were raised to heaven in the New Testament. This fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy in Isaiah 2:2, that Jerusalem and Mount Zion would be raised up above the hills. Abraham is said to have desired a "heavenly" country.

Hebrews 11:16
But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

The two witnesses, which are called two olive trees, are also raised up to heaven, in a cloud.

Revelation 11:12
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The two trees in the garden represent the word of God, and the Spirit. They are described as two witnesses in Revelation 11, and are related to the two candlesticks, as Zechariah 4:11 describes two olive trees, that supply oil through two golden pipes, which is no doubt the fuel of the candlestick.

The seven candlesticks in Revelation 1:12, 20 are identified with seven churches.

Doug

[Molly]

wow, Doug.  That's perfectly written.  :thumbsup:

[Doug]

wow, Doug.  That's perfectly written.  :thumbsup:

Thank you, Molly.

Doug

[thinktank]

wow, Doug.  That's perfectly written.  :thumbsup:

Molly put the kettle on
Molly put the kettle on
Molly put the kettle on
And we'll all have some, tree!

[Doug]

I don't see how Israel and the church are two seperate witnesses, for all jew and gentile are one in Christ Jesus.

To me the 2 witnesses are just that, 2 people, one be John of patmos the other Elijah.

:laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:

[thinktank]

"Bring me the head of Elijah" said Molly

"I want John" said Doug

"I hope it's the anointing your after " said thinktank

[Molly]

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

[jabcat]

Amen Molly.  Since Jesus shed His blood for us and rose again (and then temple worship was destroyed) we are in the age of grace.  Only He was/is worthy.

[Doug]

Isaiah said, "make straight in the desert a highway for our God." [Isaiah 40:3]

Isaiah's message was taken up by John the Baptist.

The highway construction Isaiah and John the Baptist referred to was clearly not about building a literal road in the desert, but it was a metaphor. It is one that applies to the teachings of Jesus, for example in the sermon on the mount, and to the teaching of the apostles.

Isaiah gave the name of the highway, in Isaiah 35:8; it is called "The way of holiness."

The woman in Revelation 12, who represents the church, is described as fleeing to the wilderness, in verse 6 and verse 14, and it is in the wilderness, which is a spiritual or figurative one, that this figurative highway exists.

Proverbs 16:17 says: "The highway of the upright is to depart from evil."

Paul spoke plainly; he said, an essential part of the "seal" of a Christian, is to "depart from iniquity."

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Paul wrote,

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

The apostle Peter gave similar advice, in a step by step fashion, for every believer.

2 Peter 1:3-8
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

A highway implies a well defined, and well traveled route, that many people follow. The highway in the wilderness leads to the kingdom of God, by the most direct route possible.

Isaiah said, the rough places will be made straight, the mountains will be made low, and the valleys will be exalted, or filled up. [Isaiah 40:4] Of course, none of this was meant to be taken literally. The mountains being made low suggests mysteries of scripture will be explained; valleys being filled suggests that things unknown, and missing information will be revealed. Rough places being made straight suggests hard sayings will be explained and understood.

A highway implies a route that is well marked and documented. Its destination is clearly defined; the highway in the wilderness leads people into the kingdom of God. The objective is kept in view; dangers and hazards and potential wrong turns are identified, and marked.

Landmarks along highways are identified. In a wilderness, the mountains are prominent landmarks. Experienced travelers recognize them, and so can easily determine where they are. On the highway in the wilderness, the prophecies of scripture have this role. Mysterious prophecies, and covenants, and revelations of God, are represented by mountains in scripture. For example, Sinai represents the Mosaic legislation. Less prominent revelations are represented by hills. These are all included in the things promised to the saints, and so are represented by the promised land.

Where a highway exists, the overall plan is laid out; on the highway in the wilderness, the overview is revealed by prophecy. The gospel, after all, is a prophecy.

This spiritual highway in the wilderness is for the righteous, not the wicked. They won't follow it.

Isaiah 35:8 [NIV]
And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it.

Other translations suggest a different meaning to the last part of the verse; Young has "even fools err not."

On a highway, the route has to be so clearly marked, even simple folk can find their way.

Isaiah said that the mountains of God will be a "way," and his highways will be exalted. I suggest, the mountains Isaiah referred to are the prophecies of scripture. They become a "way," and a route for the saints to follow, when they are properly interpreted.

Isaiah 49:11
And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.

Isaiah said, "prepare ye the way of the people." He also mentions raising a "standard" or a banner.

Isaiah 62:10-11
10 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.
11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

What could be more clear? The way of the saints leads to their eternal inheritance, and their promised "rest" in the kingdom of God; that is the "highway in the wilderness."

Doug

[Molly]

Loved that, Doug.   :thumbsup:


1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

--Isa 35

[Doug]

Loved that, Doug.   :thumbsup:


1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

--Isa 35

That's cool, thanks Molly.

Isaiah 35:5-6
Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

This file has been updated: The Woman in the Wilderness.

Doug

[Doug]

In the table below, various ways in which the saints are referred to in Revelation are listed, along with references.
 

saints	Rev. 5:8; 8:3, 4; 11:18; 13:7, 10; 14:12; 16:6; 17:6; 18:20, 24; 19:8; 20:9; 22:11.
temple of God	Rev. 3:12; 11:1, 19
woman in heaven	Rev. 12:1, 4
woman in the wilderness	Rev. 12:6, 13,  14, 15, 16, 17
Lamb's wife	Rev. 19:7; 21:9
bride	Rev. 21:2, 9; 22:17
144,000 sealed in their foreheads	Rev. 7:4-8; 14:1
virgins, firstfruits to God	Rev. 14:4
holy city, new Jerusalem, holy Jerusalem, camp of the saints, beloved city, city of God	Rev. 3:12; 11:2; 21:2; 20:9; 21:10, 16, 18, 23; 22:14, 19
those who dwell in heaven	Rev. 12:12
those who overcome	Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12, 21; 12:12; 21:7
brethren	Rev. 6:11; 12:10; 19:10; 22:9
names are in the book of life	Rev. 3:5; 21:27
stars	Rev. 6:13; 8:12; 12:1, 4
servants of God	Rev. 1:1; 2:20; 7:3; 11:18; 19:2, 5; 22:3, 6

The above table listing references to the saints can be contrasted with the one below, which contains references to unbelievers, and enemies of the church.

those who dwell on the earth	Rev. 3:10; 6:10; 8:13; 11:10; 13:8, 14; 17:2, 8
great city	Rev. 11:8, 13; 14:8; 16:19; 17:18; 18:10, 16, 18, 19, 21
peoples, nations, tongues	Rev. 2:26; 7:9; 11:9, 18; 12:5; 13:7; 14:8; 15:4; 17:15; 18:3, 23; 19:15; 20:8; 21:24; 21:26; 22:2
Those whose names are not in the book of life	Rev. 13:8; 17:8; 20:15
Gentiles of "outer court"	Rev. 11:2
whore	Rev. 17:1, 15, 16; 19:2
woman who rides the beast	Rev. 2:20; 17:3, 4, 6,  7, 9, 18
those who say they are Jews, and are not	Rev. 2:9; 3:9
them which destroy the earth	Rev. 11:18
fallen stars	Rev. 6:13; 8:10; 9:1; 12:4

Doug

[Doug]

The table below displays the contrast between the saints on the one hand, and the world on the other, as revealed in Revelation.

Saints	The world
saints, servants of God, brethren, those who overcome	peoples, nations, tongues
144,000 who are sealed in their foreheads	a great multitude that no man can number
the 12 tribes of Israel	Gentiles; those who say they are Jews, and are not
firstfruits to God	nations of those who are saved
temple of God	outer court
Lamb's wife, virgins	whore
woman in heaven	them which destroy the earth
woman in the wilderness	woman who rides the beast
those who dwell in heaven	those who dwell on the earth
holy city, new Jerusalem, holy Jerusalem, camp of the saints, beloved city, city of God	great city, Babylon
names are in the book of life	those whose names are not in the book of life
they are rewarded at the 7th trumpet	they are angry at the 7th trumpet
stars	fallen stars

Doug

[Doug]

In the wilderness, the Israelites were fed daily with manna, and the church, the woman who flees to the wilderness in Revelation 12:6 and 14, is likewise fed with spiritual manna, the word of God, contained in scripture.

In his messages to the churches, Jesus promised the church at Pergamos that he will give to those who overcome the "hidden manna" to eat. This must refer to a non-literal interpretation of the scriptures, otherwise, there would be nothing "hidden" about it, as the simplistic literal approach can be found by anyone.

Some people, such as the dispensationalists, think there is merit in taking the scriptures as literally as possible. But Jesus showed that the "hidden manna" that he will give is preferred, and is available only to those who "overcome."

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Many interpretations have been offered for the white stone in this scripture. Tony Garland wrote:

A number of alternative interpretations have been offered for the meaning of the white stone.

1. Token of Innocence - A white pebble was placed in a ballot box by a Greek judge pronouncing a sentence of acquittal (a black pebble indicating condemnation). ...

2. Token of Privilege - A tessera ... was given at Olympic games to the victor with subsequent attendant social privileges. ...

3. Token of Initiation - A token of initiation into the cult of Asklepios. ...

4. Good Omen - Reflecting the practice of a person who placed a white or black pebble for each happy or unhappy day into an urn. At his death, the colors were totaled to rate the happiness of his life. ...

5. High Priest's Headdress - "One explanation links the white stone with the platelet of gold that graced the high priest's headdress (Ex. 28:36-37)." ...

6. High Priest's Breastplate - "Another explanation from Jewish customs is that the imagery of the white stone originated with the twelve stones in the high priest's breastplate. The names of each of the twelve tribes in Israel were inscribed on the stones. One difficulty with this view is that the stones in the breastplate were not white (Ex. 28:17-21)." ...

7. Urim and Thummim - Trench supposes the white stone may be a diamond, the same stone which is the Urim and Thummim. ...

8. Stone Tablets of the Law - "A fourth explanation in Jewish custom for the white stone connects it with the stones on which God inscribed His moral will (i.e., the Ten Commandments)."

The stones set up at Mount Ebal, after the Israelites entered the promised land, where the law was written out, were first whitewashed with lime, so they were "white stones." [Deuteronomy 27:2-8] Garland wrote:

The written law upon the tablets of stone was a picture of how one day God would write the law upon tablets of flesh: ... (2Cor. 2:2) The white stone may be a memorial to the law in that it records a new name which expresses the character of God to which the believer is being conformed (Rom. 8:29; 1Cor. 15:49; 2Cor. 3:18; Php. 3:21; Col. 3:10).

In his Revelation commentary, J. Preston Eby connected the white stone of Revelation 2:17 with bdellium of Genesis 2:11-12, and so, with the garden of Eden. He wrote:

In our text in the book of Revelation the white stone is mentioned in connection with the hidden manna. Both are given together to the overcomer! In itself, manna was a reminder of Eden: for even while God's people were in the wilderness on their way to the promised land of abundance and fullness, the Lord rained down manna from heaven and their food was plentiful, delicious, and easy to obtain -- as, of course, it had been in the Garden. But, there is a deeper truth yet! Just in case any might fail to get the connection, the Holy Spirit recorded that the manna was the color of bdellium (Num. 11:7) -- the only occurrence of that word apart from its original mention in the book of Genesis! And this plainly tells us the color of bdellium, since we are told elsewhere (Ex. 16:31) that manna was white! Both manna and bdellium were white!

Wesley's Notes on Numbers 11:7 state:

11:7 As coriander - seed - Not for colour, for that is black, but for shape and figure. Bdellium - Is either the gum of a tree, of a white and bright colour, or rather a gem or precious stone, as the Hebrew doctors take it; and particularly a pearl wherewith the Manna manifestly agrees both in its colour, which is white, Exo 16:14, and in its figure which is round.

Several older commentaries connect bdellium with a pearl.

The Geneva Study Bible says:

Numbers 11:7
And the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of {e} bdellium.
(e) Which is a white pearl, or precious stone.

From Net Bible:

Bdellium [EBD]
occurs only in Gen. 2:12, where it designates a product of the land of Havilah; and in Num. 11:7, where the manna is likened to it in colour. It was probably an aromatic gum like balsam which exuded from a particular tree (Borassus flabelliformis) still found in Arabia, Media, and India. It bears a resemblance in colour to myrrh. Others think the word denotes "pearls," or some precious stone.

GNU Webster's Dictionary, 1913 (2 definitions)

Bdellium
-noun
1. An unidentified substance mentioned in the Bible (Gen. ii. 12, and Num. xi. 7), variously taken to be a gum, a precious stone, or pearls, or perhaps a kind of amber found in Arabia.
2. A gum resin of reddish brown color, brought from India, Persia, and Africa.

The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible says:

and the colour thereof as the colour of bdellium;
not an aromatic gum, which Pliny speaks of, which is clear as wax, for that is black or blackish, and not white as the manna; besides, this should be read, not "bdellium", but "bdeloah", and is a precious stone, and, according to Bochart, the pearl; so Ben Melech observes, that it is a precious stone; some say the diamond, and others a round white stone, which they bore and join stones together, and make a chain of, he doubtless means a pearl necklace; though Jarchi says it is the crystal, and so the Jewish writers commonly; (See Gill on 2:12); hence it appears the manna was very pleasant to look at, being of a round form, and of a pearl or crystal colour.

Navigating the Bible even translates the word for which the KJV has bdellium, as: "with a pearl-like luster."

Numbers 11:7     The manna was like coriander seed with a pearl-like luster.

The "white stone," that Jesus promises his saints, I think probably refers to the pearl which Jesus spoke of in his parable of the merchant who sold all he had, to acquire one pearl of great price, which represents gaining entry into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 13:45-47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

In Revelation 21:21, the gates in the walls of the heavenly Jerusalem each consist of one pearl. "And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl."

Doug


This file has been updated: The woman in the wilderness

[Doug]

Is there a connection between the story of Samson and the prophecy of the two witnesses? Below is a table that compares various elements in Revelation 11 and the story of Samson.

Gentiles trample the holy city for 42 months.	Israel was delivered into the hand of the Philistines forty years. [Judges 13:1]
The two witnesses prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.	Samson judged Israel for 20 years, and began to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines. [Judges 13:5]
The two witnesses stand before the Lord of the whole earth.	Samson stood up against the Philistines.
Two prophets	Samson proposed riddles.
The two witnesses tormented them that dwelt on the earth.	Samson troubled the Philistines; he set fire to their corn, and vineyards, and olives, and he slew 1,000 Philistines with the jawbone of an ass.
Their enemies must be killed by fire.	A company of 3,000 Jews promised not to harm Samson. They bound him and delivered him to the Philistines, and he killed many of them.
The two witnesses shut heaven, so it does not rain.	Samson thirsted for water, and found it in the jawbone of an ass.
At war with the beast from the pit.	Samson was at war with the Philistines.
The two witnesses are overcome by the beast and their two lamps are put out.	Samson was seduced, and then overcome by the Philistines, who put out both his eyes. [Judges 16:21]
The people and kindreds and tongues and nations do not allow their dead bodies to be put in graves. The corpses lie in the street three days and a half.	Samson was imprisoned, and displayed for sport.
The city is called spiritually Sodom and Egypt.	Samson was kept in Gaza.
The nations rejoice, and make merry, at the death of the two witnesses.	The Philistines rejoiced, and made merry over his capture.
The two witnesses revive, and stand on their feet.	Samson's hair began to grow back; the Spirit gave him strength to topple the temple.
One tenth of the city falls.	The temple of Dagon collapsed upon the Philistines.
7,000 are killed in an earthquake.	3,000 Philistines were killed in the collapse of the temple of Dagon.
The death and revival of the two witnesses has a greater impact than their previous ministry.	Samson slew more Philistines by his death, than he had during his entire life.
They ascend to heaven in a cloud.	His body was retrieved by his family and buried.

Doug

[Doug]

The table below shows how elements of the prophecy of the two witnesses allude to many of the prophets in both the Old and New Testaments. This indicates that Revelation 11 is not about two individuals who terrorize people living at the end time, but instead it describes the role of the scriptures, and the spirit of prophecy, throughout history.

Two witnesses	Parallels in the prophets
The holy city trampled by Gentiles	Samson
No rain for three years and six months	Elijah [Luke 4:25; James 5:17]
Fire from their mouth	Elijah [2 Kings 1:10, 12]
Waters turned to blood	Moses [Exodus 7:17; Psalm 105:29] Elisha [2 Kings 3:23]
Sackcloth	David [Psalm 69:11] Daniel [Daniel 9:3] Isaiah [Isaiah 20:2]
1,260 days	Daniel's time, times, and a half
Two prophets	Moses and Elijah [Matthew 17:3]
Two olive trees standing before the Lord of the earth	The witness of all the prophets and saints
Overcome by the beast from the pit	Samson overcome by the Philistines
Dead bodies left unburied	[Psalm 79:2]
Bodies lie in the street	[Isaiah 51:23]
Three days and a half	Daniel's time, times, and a half
Sodom, Egypt	Samson in Gaza
Their enemies rejoice	Samson
All plagues	All the prophets; e.g, Moses, Isaiah, Joel, Zechariah, Ezekiel, Obadiah, Jesus, John, etc.
Revival	Samson, Jonah, Jesus
Ascent to heaven in a cloud	Jesus

Doug

[Doug]

The prophecy of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 is introduced by a reference to the measuring of the temple of God. This first verse of the prophecy is often misunderstood, as it is not referring to a literal temple. In verse 19 the temple is said to be in heaven, as is the woman in the following chapter. The temple John was told to measure certainly was not Herod's temple, that was destroyed in 70 AD, as some preterists have claimed. Rather, it refers to the measuring of the spiritual temple that is described, and measured in the prophecies of Ezekiel.

Revelation 11:1
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Compare the above verse with the following from the prophecy of Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 40:2-4
2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.
4 And the man said unto me, Son of man, behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee; for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel.

The use of a reed in both prophecies, and the activity of measuring, suggest that John's prophecy alludes to the prophecy of Ezekiel, which is also about measuring the temple, given during the exile, in a period when the temple of Solomon that was made with hands had ceased to exist. How can a literal temple be measured, if it does not exist?

In Ezekiel's prophecy, the measuring of the temple is the topic beginning in chapter 40, and extends over the following chapters to the end of the book. This temple must be a spiritual or figurative one, not a temporal one made of wood and stones.

Mountains in prophetic terminology are symbolic of revelations of God, as illustrated in Paul's use of Mount Sinai as a symbol of the Mosaic legislation in Galatians 4:24-25. So Ezekiel's reference to being taken in vision to a high mountain, from where he described the measuring of the temple, suggests that the things he was about to reveal must be taken as symbolic, and require interpretation. It is not a literal temple of wood and stone that he was about to describe.

In the New Testament, Stephen, in his last speech, pointed out:

Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

This point is emphasized by repetition later on in Acts, when Paul said to the people of Athens:

Acts 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

In the prophecy of Ezekiel, about the measuring of the temple, he includes a description of the glory of God filling the temple.  

Ezekiel 43:1-4
1 Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
3 And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
4 And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.

Ezekiel's temple must be one that is not made with hands. The spiritual temple, in the NT, is the church, founded on the prophets and apostles. [Ephesians 2:19-22] The implication is that the glory of God is to fill the spiritual temple, the church. This must be the background for John's prophecy of the two witnesses.

Another interesting feature of Ezekiel's temple is the river that flows from it, which heals the areas where it flows. It is described in Ezekiel 47:1-12.

Doug


Who are the Two Witnesses?

[Doug]

In his prophecy of the 70 weeks, Daniel says the sacrifices and oblations would cease in the "midst of" the last week; "... and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." [Daniel 9:27] The sacrifice and the oblation ceased, when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, in 70 AD, so that event must have been "the midst of the week," the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks.

The 70 weeks prophecy was to point to the time of the appearance of the Messiah, and also bring in all the things listed in Daniel 9:24. The Messiah would appear at the end of the first two periods of 7, and 62 weeks. The other things mentioned would be fulfilled at the end of the 70th week.

The last week of the prophecy, the 70th week, is recognized by many to be a divided week. The first half-week can be identified with the ministry of Jesus and John the Baptist, and the interpretation of the final half-week, the "time, times and a half," has been a topic of much dispute.

This is the period to which the prophecy of the two witnesses applies. It is the same period for which the church, the woman in heaven of Revelation 12:1, flees to the wilderness. [Revelation 12:6, 14] And it is also the period during which the beast of chapter 13 makes war with the saints. [Revelation 13:5]

These time periods must all be reconciled, in order to properly identify the two witnesses. Otherwise, these prophecies will very likely be misinterpreted.

Dispensationalism insists that the "time, times and a half," and the 42 months, and 1,260 days, mentioned in Revelation 11, 12, and 13, all refer to a literal three and a half years, that occurs at the end of the age. And preterism also says this period refers to some period of three and a half years, that occurred during the first century.

A problem with these claims is that 1,260 days is not exactly three and a half years, but an ideal number, 3.5 x 12 x 30. It fits the pattern of "a time, times, and a half." The other numbers given by Daniel, 1,290 days and 1,335 days, also fit the pattern when years of two kinds are used, of 12 and 13 months. These are ideal numbers, not literal, as months are not exactly 30 days.

1,290 days = 13*30 + 2*12*30 + 12*30/2
1,335 days = 12*30 + 2*13*30 + 13*30/2

These are simply alternate ways of representing "a time, times, and a half," and I think, clearly demonstrate that it is meant to be symbolic, as no literal three and a half years can have two or three different numbers of days.

Charles D. Alexander, in Revelation Spiritually Understood, says the two witnesses are the church, which is different to my interpretation. He wrote:

THE TWO WITNESSES ARE THE CHURCH

To summarise therefore, the Two Witnesses are 'the two olive trees standing before the Lord of the whole earth' and we have now seen that they cannot be two individuals (such as a resurrected Moses and a translated Elijah), but can only represent the entire church of God in her agelong testimony in this world, sustained from within by the Spirit of God ever flowing from Christ.
...
THE SPIRIT and the BRIDE SAY, COME" (Revelation 22:17)
Need we any further proof as to the identity of the Two Witnesses?


Alexander says the following about the time periods of 42 months and 1,260 days mentioned in Revelation 11:

FORTY AND TWO MONTHS

All the numbers in Revelation are symbolic. They cannot be fitted into the framework of world history, though there are many startling coincidences which embolden the unwary and create an enthusiasm for chronological interpretation. The spiritual interpretation of this great book must be maintained at all costs, for the past history of chronological investigation is strewn with the carcasses of confident predictions which now have no relevance to contemporary events. Historicism has run out of time and has almost disappeared in the vagaries of post-millennialism presently revived by the contemporary situation in Palestine while ignoring the contemporary state of the church and the revival of heathenism. Some day soon, perhaps, many of our friends may awake to the realities of the Latter Day apostasy, and the realisation that the Millennium is past!

If not a measurable period of time in the realm of historical chronology, what then does the figure of 42 months signify? We have already said in a previous chapter that the numbers in Daniel and Revelation of 1260 days, 42 months, 3 ½ years and 'time, times, and half a time' all correspond with each other and are to be interpreted in terms of the most indefinite of them - 'time, times, and half a time'. Thus we are dealing with an indefinite period of time, known only to God and not intended to be measured by man. If it could be measured in advance what consolation would it be for those who were able to calculate that no deliverance was to be expected in their day or perhaps for centuries to come? Or what office would be left to faith, if it could be ascertained that in the period of one's own lifetime all would be consummated and the Lord would return? What becomes of the Saviour's warning that of the day and hour of His return no man knows, nor yet is it a part of the Son's commission from the Father to make it known?

THE BROKEN SEVEN

In place of these speculations we find it much more comforting to see all these strange figures in the Apocalypse as being signs of THE BROKEN SEVEN (the 3 ½  years). Seven being the number of divine completeness, and being so used throughout the Apocalypse, the broken seven must relate to judgment and is a warning to the world and an assurance to the people of God of the steadfastness of the divine purposes in commanding a limited period only for the power of this world. The enemy will not endure one day beyond the divine decree.

The 42 months we regard therefore as the whole period of time from Patmos to the Second Advent of our Lord. It began with John's imprisonment, and the Book of Revelation is concerned with that event and the interpretation of it in terms of the prolonged sufferings and probation of the church typified in the afflictions of "John our brother".

During that immense period of time, the church is comforted in the knowledge that the onset and the termination of the 1260 days (and its other numerical equivalents) are fixed by the Lord's sovereign determination. The arbiter of time is the Mighty Angel of chapter 10: the true Michael, the Angel of the Covenant, Christ, the Son of God, the Conqueror of sin, death and hell, the Woman's Seed, the Bruiser of the Serpent's head. It is not for us to know the times and the seasons which forever remain in the Father's own power (Acts 1:7); our part is to preach the Word of God and hold forth the testimony of Christ in a hostile world in which all power appears to be given to the enemies of the kingdom of God.


Doug


Who are the Two Witnesses?

[Doug]

Another discussion about the significance of the time periods of Revelation is provided in Patrick Fairbairn's Prophecy viewed in respect to its distinctive nature, its special function, and proper interpretation [Published by T. and T. Clark, 1865] PART 2, CHAPTER III.

Below are Fairbairn's comments about the "time, times and a half" and the related numbers, 42 months and 1,260 days of Revelation 11, 12, and 13.

It remains only to notice the indications of time contained in the portion of the Apocalypse we have been surveying. These appear to be simply three, though one of them is expressed in a threefold manner. It is the period of the church's tried and oppressed condition--denoted first in chap. xi. 2, as a period of forty-two months, during which "the holy city is trodden down of the Gentiles," during which also the beast was to continue in its power to blaspheme and injure (chap. xiii. 5); then as consisting of 1260 days (forty-two months multiplied by 30 days), during which the witnesses, representatives of a faithful, but oppressed and persecuted church, were to prophecy, chap. xi. 3, and the church was to abide in the wilderness, chap. xii. 6, having a place and food prepared for her by God; and finally, as a time, times and a half (corresponding to one year of twelve months, two of the same, and a half-year of six, or to forty-two months, or again to 1260 days), during which the church was to remain and be fed in the wilderness, chap. xii. 14. In Dan. vii. 25, where the expression first occurs, it is the time during which the saints of God were to be given into the hand of the power that was to speak great words against the Most High. These are manifestly but different modes of expressing one and the same period, as the state of things also to which they are applied is substantially identical, though variously represented. For the sojourn in the wilderness on the part of the faithful and proper spouse, the treading down of the holy city by those who belonged only to the court of the Gentiles, and the testifying for the truth of God by a faithful remnant clothed in sackcloth, and wrestling against error and corruption; these are obviously but different symbolical representations of the same abnormal and dislocated state of things. The other two periods mentioned are both very brief, as compared with the one just noticed. The shortest is that during which the bodies of the faithful witnesses are represented as lying dead, though unburied, three and a half days, chap. xi. 12; and the other is the five months during which the scorpion-locusts were to have power to torment the followers of the beast, chap. ix. 5.

Now, it is scarcely possible to avoid being struck even on the most cursory inspection of these periods, with a peculiarity that is common to them all--the broken and incomplete aspect they present. A certain whole was evidently in respect to each of them in the mind of the Divine author of the vision, as that toward which the parties spoken of were aiming, but were arrested midway in their career. This is particularly observable in the largest and by much the most important number, which in every form--whether as time, times and a half, or as the months and days that make up three and a half years--is most expressive of an unfinished course, a period somehow cut off in the middle. In like manner, the three and a half days of rejoicing over the unburied corpses of the slain witnesses, betokens the same violent and abrupt termination of the course indicated; in their ungodly triumph, the adversaries could not complete more than half of one of the briefest revolutions of time--one of the smallest cycles of the whole period allotted to the ascendency of evil. The incompleteness may appear less palpable in the five months specified for the plague of scorpion-locusts; but it will scarcely do so to those who have attended to the use made in Scripture of ten with reference to certain kinds of totality. The five is simply the broken ten.

So marked a peculiarity in the use of all these numbers is itself a strong presumption in favour of their symbolical import It seems to stamp their value as indications of relative, rather than of absolute periods of duration--relative both as regards each other, and also as regards an ideal whole. And it will appear to do so the more convincingly the more the periods are viewed in reference to the parties mentioned, which are the entire spiritual church throughout the world, on the one side, and the whole antichristian power on the other; for in regard to such vast bodies, and their wide-reaching interests, what could such periods avail in their natural sense! They could obviously afford but a mere fraction of the time necessary for the accomplishment of the results connected with them; nor could such results in actual history be shut up into any periods consisting of such exact and definite measures. Another, and very powerful consideration in favour of the same view is the place of these historical numbers--surrounded on every hand, not with the literal, but with the symbolical. The woman that is persecuted, and the dragon who persecutes; the wilderness into which she flees, and the floods sent after her; the beast that rages against the truth, and the two witnesses who testify for it to the death; the holy city that is trodden down, and the Egypt or Babylon by whom the treading is effected; all are symbolically used, and shall the periods of working be otherwise than symbolical? In that case there would be the violation of one of the plainest laws of symbolical writing, and confusion and arbitrariness, as a matter of necessity, would be brought into the interpretation. It is true, the number seven, as applied to the heads of the beast, and the number ten spoken of its ultimate forms of separate organization, have already been found by us to possess a kind of historical verification. But this, when more closely considered, manifests an evident striving after the symbolical. For, it is to make out the number seven, that St John diverges so strikingly here from the representation of Daniel, taking in the two earlier worldly kingdoms, which Daniel had omitted, and making of the divided state of Daniel's fourth empire a separate kingdom--the seventh. Nay, even this seventh he calls in a sense also the eighth--chap. xvii. 11--although seven still is taken as the proper number, because it alone has the proper symbolical import. The beast comes into view mainly as the rival of God, and seven being the common symbol of completeness for the Divine manifestations in the world (Isa. xxx. 26; Zech. iii. 9, iv. 2; Prov. ix. 1; Rev. i. 4, iii. 1, etc.)--originating, no doubt, in the sevenfold acts of God at creation--the worldly rival of God's power and glory in the world is, in token of its God-defying character, presented under the same number of manifestations. For a like reason the divided state of the last manifestation is distributed into the number ten. This also is often used as a symbol of completeness, on which account the ancients called it the perfect number, which comprehends all others in itself. But it commonly denotes completeness in respect to human interests and relations--as in the tithes or tenths (ten being regarded as comprising the entire property, from which one was selected to do homage to him who gave the whole), and the ten commandments, the sum of man's dutiful obedience. When, therefore, the divided state into which the modern Roman world fell, is represented under ten horns or kingdoms, it may well be doubted whether this should be pressed farther than as indicating, by a round number, the totality of the new states--the diversity in the unity--whether or not it might admit of being exactly and definitely applied to so many historical kingdoms. There is always some difficulty in making out an exact correspondence; and we should the less hold such a correspondence to be necessary, since even in the case of the tribes of Israel, when taken to represent the company of an elect people (chap. vii.), one tribe is totally omitted to preserve the symbolism of the historical twelve. This shows very strikingly the stress laid on the symbolical element, and strengthens the conclusion, that both in the seven and ten, as applied to the beast, and in the broken periods now under consideration, that element is primarily respected. Lastly, there is to be added on the same side the obviously loose setting of the periods; neither their starting-point, nor their termination is sharply defined. Viewed historically, indeed, one does not see how it could have been otherwise. The flight of the church into the wilderness, or the treading down of the holy city by the Gentiles, came on gradually; and appeared in different places at different times. It cannot be linked to definite historical epochs, as if at one or other of these it commenced for the first time, and for the whole church; and from the very nature of things, the termination must have a like diversity and gradation in its accomplishment. This draws a plain line of demarcation between the periods before us, and Daniel's seventy weeks, which are definitely bounded both in respect to their commencement and their close. The narrower field, and more outward character of the things they referred to, easily admitted of such a limitation; but here the world is the field, and the cause of vital Christianity throughout its borders the great interest at stake.

Giving all these considerations their due weight, we cannot avoid arriving at the conclusion, that the periods mentioned, in accordance with the general character of the book, are to be chiefly, if not exclusively, understood in a symbolical manner, as serving to indicate the times of relative length or brevity which the operations described were destined to occupy. If anything further is implied, it should only, we conceive, be looked for in some general correspondence, as to form, between the symbol and the reality, such as might be sufficient to guide thoughtful and inquiring minds to a more firm assurance of the realisation of the vision. But all precise and definite calculations respecting the periods, as they necessarily proceed upon a disregard of the symbolical character of the book, and upon a too external and political contemplation of the events to which it points, so they must inevitably be defeated of their aim in the future, as they have continually been in the past. The prophecy was not written to give men to know after such a fashion, the times and the seasons, which the Father has put in His own power.

Doug

[Doug]

In reference to the comments by other authors about the interpretation of the "time, times and a half," and 1,260 days, and 42 months, of Revelation 11, 12, and 13, previously quoted:

Charles D. Alexander sees "all these strange figures in the Apocalypse as being signs of THE BROKEN SEVEN (the 3 ½  years)."

Similarly, Patrick Fairbairn refers to "the broken and incomplete aspect they present."

Fairbairn makes the point that (1) the numbers are symbolic; and (2) they represent a "broken" or incomplete period.

Both these points are valid, in my opinion; the "time, times and a half" is simply half of "seven times."

In the quote by Fairbairn, he apparently viewed the period of time that these numbers represent as being an incomplete period, "cut off in the midst." But I suggest, they are the final half of a period of "seven times," and represent the completion of it. This is supported in Daniel 12:7, where the fulfillment of the same period is mentioned as referring to the time when "all these things shall be finished."    

Daniel 12:7
And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Included here are the events described in Daniel 12:1-3.

Daniel 9:24-27 includes the promise that Christ, the Messiah, will "confirm the covenant with many for one week." Jesus is the Messiah whose coming was promised, who appeared when the first two sections of the 70 weeks were fulfilled, at the end of the 69th week. A "week" remained, which is the 70th week, and the ministry of Jesus was the first half of it. The remaining period is the the last half week, as the ministry of Jesus is thought to have been three and a half years, perhaps including the ministry of John. The time since then is the symbolic time, times and a half.

A "week" in the 70 weeks prophecy is "seven times." The last, or 70th week is a divided week. Jesus confirmed the covenant during his ministry, and continues to do so, through his Spirit given to the church, and by fulfilling his word.

All of this fits the interpretation of the "time, times and a half" as the last half-week of the 70th week, and as a symbol of the entire church age.

Since the 70th week is also "seven times," it corresponds to the last of the four periods of seven times in Leviticus 26, when God becomes reconciled to his people, and when he "remembers the land."

Here, I suggest, the "land" refers to the invisible things promised to the saints, their eternal inheritance.

There can be no breaks or gaps in the 70 weeks, since Daniel refers to Leviticus 26 as "the curse" that was poured out on Israel, Daniel 9:11. Any gap in the 70 weeks would mean a lapse in the curse, and so would imply God is temporarily reconciled to Israel, which of course has not happened. The reconciliation is to be forever.

Doug


Who are the Two Witnesses?

[Doug]

The prophecy of the two witnesses is a minefield for preterism. However, some have presumed to say, Revelation 11 actually supports their views!

The temple mentioned in Revelation 11:1-2, they claim, is the literal temple, that had not yet been destroyed.

But this implies that John's prophecy in Revelation 2:1-2 was a failed prediction of the temple's preservation, which contradicted what both Jesus and Daniel had previously said about it.

Whereas John said the Gentiles would occupy the temple court, and the city would be trampled for three and a half years, Jesus had already indicated its complete destruction. "Not one stone will remain upon another," he said. [Matthew 24:1-2]

Hmm... Is it reasonable, that the apostle John would have so blatantly contradicted the prophecy of Jesus? Why would he do that?

Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., a leading preterist, has written about the prophecy of the two witnesses. In one of his books, he seemed concerned, not to understand what the prophecy teaches, but rather to support his theory of an early date for Revelation, and the preterist system of interpretation.  

The following quotation is from: Beast of Revelation by Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., Institute for Christian Economics Tyler,  Texas. 1994. p. 121-122

Also we should notice that after the 42-month treading down of Jerusalem, the altar is seen no longer in earthly Jerusalem, but in heaven (Rev. 11:18). This is significant because it is there Christ's kingdom originates (John 18:36; Heb. 1:3). It is there that Christians have their ultimate citizenship (Eph. 2:6; Col. 3:1-2; Heb. 12:22).

Although it is recognized on all sides that there is an obvious involvement of the symbolic in the passage, there surely must be some historical reality that forms the basis of the symbol. After all, the symbolic names "Egypt" and "Sodom" refer to the historical city Jerusalem (Rev. 11:8). If John wrote about literal Jerusalem ("where also their Lord was crucified") twenty-five years after the destruction of the literal temple (as per the evangelically formulated late-date argument), it would seem most improbable that he would speak of the temple as if it were still standing. The symbol would be confusing in its blatant anachronism. The temple is required to be standing for the symbolical action of the vision to have any meaning.

It seems obvious that Dr. Gentry has stepped on a number of landmines here.

First, he notes that the temple and the altar in the final verse of the chapter is located in heaven. This destroys his idea that the temple mentioned in the first two verses is a literal one; the temple in heaven is the church, just as the woman in heaven, in Revelation 12:1, also represents the church.

Gentry is simply wrong, IMO, when he applies the labels "Sodom" and "Egypt" to Jerusalem; the place where Jesus was crucified was outside the city, as the law required. [Leviticus 24:13-23; Numbers 15:35-36]

Hebrews 13:12
Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Jesus was probably crucified on the Mount of Olives, as the crucifixion site was a place where the centurion standing nearby could have a fine view of the curtain of the temple, as he observed when it was rent in two when Jesus died. This requires a location east of the temple, and upon an elevated site, such as the Mount of Olives.

Mark 15:37-39
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Another landmine for Gentry is his own tenuous argument that in order for John to mention measuring the temple, a literal temple had to exist. This obviously has no merit, as when Ezekiel wrote his prophecy covering several chapters at the end of Ezekiel, about an angel measuring the temple, a literal temple did not exist. Ezekiel was among the exiles in Babylon. The literal temple had been destroyed, just as when John wrote his prophecy. The implication is that he was referring to the spiritual temple, the church. [Ephesians 2:20-22]
   
Doug


Who are the Two Witnesses?

[Doug]

Preterists often ridicule Dispensationalism, and its supporters, for the long gap that is invoked, in their interpretation of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy. They insert the gap of many centuries between the 69th and 70th weeks.

There is no gap in the 70 weeks, but it is quite wrong to say the 70 weeks have been fulfilled already, as preterists claim, IMO.
   
Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is about the duration of Jerusalem's desolation, and the restoration of true worship, and Israel's reconciliation to God, and other things mentioned in Daniel 9:24, that we don't see fulfilled yet.

Isaiah said that Jerusalem and Zion will be raised up above the hills [Isa. 2:2] and in the NT, Jerusalem is put up in heaven, and identified with the church. "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem..." [Heb. 12:22] So Jerusalem and Zion are raised up far higher than the hills. But, the desolation has not ended.

In Revelation 11, 12, and 13, the saints are involved in warfare. This is a great struggle for possession of the church's spiritual inheritance. In Revelation 11:7, the beast from the pit makes war with God's two witnesses, and overcomes them. In Revelation 12:7, the war is in heaven; it is spiritual warfare, as angels are involved in it. The great red dragon, Satan, is cast out, and when this happens, he has only a short time left, to cause grief in the world. In Revelation 13:7, the beast with seven heads and ten horns makes war with the saints, and overcomes them. He continues for 42 months, the same period mentioned in Revelation 11:2, where the holy city is trampled by Gentiles. The holy city here is the church. This 42 months, 1,260 days, and "time, times and a half" of Revelation 12:14 are all related to the 70 weeks; they represent the last half-week.

The first two sections in the 70 weeks, 7 weeks and 62 weeks, point to the coming of the Messiah, and in the last week, he "confirms the covenant with many." The ministry of Jesus was part of that last week. He confirmed the covenant. Paul said,

Romans 15:8
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

His crucifixion began the last half-week, which can't be a literal three years and a half, or else the apostles would have noticed that Daniel's prophecy had been fulfilled, but nowhere do they tell us that. Jesus continues to fulfill his covenant with the saints today, so the last half-week is not finished yet.

There are no gaps in the 70 weeks, as that would imply there a temporary reconciliation, and a lapse of the curse, that Daniel refers to in 9:11. The curse alludes to the four periods of seven times in Leviticus 26. The first of these periods was the exile; the last three correspond to the three sections of the 70 weeks. In the final one, God is reconciled to his people and remembers his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that Paul calls the gospel. He also "remembers the land," which is symbolic of spiritual things promised to the saints. Understanding Daniel's prophecy is included in those things; and Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is key to understanding the time periods mentioned in Revelation 11, 12, and 13, which all refer to the same thing, the time, times and a half, which is symbolic of the last half-week in the 70 weeks, when Jesus continues to confirm his covenant with his saints.

Doug


Who are the Two Witnesses?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Lots of good points you make here, Doug....thanks  :thumbsup:

[reFORMer]

...went to the site where Fairbairn's Prophecy is located.  Interpretation is one thing, but to say Scripture was altered and needs to be restored is another.  Nevertheless, there are some wonderful books and info at this site to pick over.  Interesting, the idea that "the cleansing of the heavens" of Daniel 8 refers to the commencement of the scientific revolution in the 1750s.  Too bad, due to time and space, it's not so easy to share seeking in the Word together.