UR Questions

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT... :hithere:

2yrs and counting brother Dustprophet, and your message of defeat and supposed Divine PARTIALITY continues...  :dontknow:

It was a sheep.

It also matches this following scripture:

Luke 15:4
What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

It was a sheep.

And we must analyse the parable to the fullest.  We should also see similar deeper meanings throughout (which we do):

Example: 

Tree of Life....Tree of Knowledge

We all eat from the the TOK first (natural) and then the TOL (spiritual)

Light.....Darkness.

We are ALL children of darkness, until GOD brings LIGHT into our souls... not of our doing...

Love.....Wrath

We all suffer WRATH in THIS LIFE, before we recieve the GLORY of LOVE's Victory in the next...

Life....Death

ALL are appointed to DIE (physically) PT, ...then be made ALIVE (spiritually)...IN CHRIST...

Clean...Unclean.

ALL are unclean in the natural, before being CLEANSED in the SPIRITUAL...

The Righteous....The Wicked.

ALL are of wickedness, prior to CONVERSION to righteousness...

Those who Love....Those who oppress.

ALL are guilty of oppressions at one time or another, ALL shall be made PERFECT in LOVE for LOVE NEVER FAILS...

Faith.....No Faith.

No one has FAITH, until it is GIVEN from above!

Sons of the Father......Sons of Satan.

ALL are CHILDREN disobedience (adversity/satan), before becoming the CHILDREN of YHVH...

Wheat.....Darnel.

There is HARVEST in ALL lives (love redeemed), there is DESTRUCTION (disobedience destroyed) in ALL LIVES...

Sheep.....Goats

Your moments, and mine... examples of obedience and love, examples of disobedience and sin...

Spirit of Truth....Spirit of Error.

Again, both these commodities are found in ALL for NO ONE knows ALL TRUTH... If you dont KNOW a given TRUTH, you KNOW a given, ERROR...

All you name above are creations of GOD... and ALL are under His control and supervision, and ALL are contributors to CORRECTION and ultimately to VICTORY...

So which are YOU brother PT?  Sheep ("true follower") or Goat ("untrue follower") (as if we have to guess eh?  :laughing7:)

It is always interesting to me, how some (such as yourself) can propose GOD as choosing this one, or that one, instead of what SCRIPTURE notes in at least FOUR PLACES that He is NO RESPECTER of PERSONS... and conveniently number themselves amongst the SHEEP,  while noting that it s___ks to be one of the UNCHOSEN, ...GOATS... :rolleye:

With a spiritual eye, hopefully one day, you shall see the "SHEEP" and "GOATS", "WHEAT" and "TARES" are the moments of the lives of ALL MEN... and the only moments worth REDEEMING are those that are done IN CHRIST...  :winkgrin:

Peace...  :HeartThrob:

In  JESUS...willieH :gamer:

[Peacetroll]

Willie.

So the wheat and darnel, goats and sheep are just moments in our lives.

Ok.

God chooses whom he chooses.

Blessed is the person whom the lord will not impute sin.

Many are called, but few are chosen.

The road to destruction is wide and many enter therein, but the road to salvation (for the soul), is narrow and few there be that find it.

I suppose we are all led to believe as the author deams appropriate (not of our doing , but the Lords).

I reckon we can agree to disagree.

Peace is in believing Christ Jesus over all others.

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Matthew 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

[Taffy]

Wille Man..
matey I must put this in because for what ever reason i get this image of ya when i read ya post..
so forgive me first :laughing7:


(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/personnages/divers/diver025.gif)


yo Peacetroll...thats it :thumbsup:
Willie.

So the wheat and darnel, goats and sheep are just moments in our lives.

Ok. :thumbsup:

Otherwise Willie conclusion you can not understand me thinks his point is shown



With a spiritual eye, hopefully one day, you shall see the "SHEEP" and "GOATS", "WHEAT" and "TARES" are the moments of the lives of ALL MEN... and the only moments worth REDEEMING are those that are done IN CHRIST

but No worries matey....

Tis how I see it also...

Peace to you.

Blessings
Taffy.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT... :hithere:

Willie.

So the wheat and darnel, goats and sheep are just moments in our lives.

Ok.

ALL that men do are placed upon the ONLY foundation that IS... (1 Cor 3:11-15)

What we place upon that foundation are OUR LIVES moment by moment... either those moments are IN CHRIST (Gold, silver, precious stones - noncombustible), or they are NOT (wood, hay, stubble - combustible) but by the conclusion, ALL shall be saved, ... (MOST) even so as BY FIRE!

God chooses whom he chooses.

This is NOT concerning Salvation... for CHRIST took AWAY, the SIN of the WORLD PT... He chooses whom He chooses, according to the accomplishment and completion of HIS PURPOSE... not according to the merit one has over another, due to obedience or disobedience... for of ourselves PT, ...our hearts are DESPARATELY WICKED (Jer 17:9), and it takes HIS WORK to overcome this, ...NOT OURS... (Eph 2:8-9)

Blessed is the person whom the lord will not impute sin.

2 Cor 5:19 to wit, GOD was IN CHRIST, ...RECONCILING the WORLD unto Himself, ...NOT IMPUTING... their TRESPASSES unto them, and hath committed unto us, the WORD of RECONCILIATION.

Many are called, but few are chosen.

:laughing7:  This is why MOST MEN do NOT SEE or HEAR... for they are PURPOSELY BLINDED and DEAFENED... (Rom 9:16 / Jer 18:4 / Jer 29:14)

GOD has decided we should be blind or deaf, and has SENT us into the CAPTIVITY of ADVERSITY to Himself, PURPOSELY... that we might gain the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL...

GOD chooses ALL THINGS to be as they are, brother PT...

For example:  none of us has ANY SAY in "choosing" the era we are born in, the city, country, ...or the parents, siblings, race, family, etc.. of the LIFE we now experience... NONE of the parameters of THIS LIFE is in our hands... we are DEALT LIFE, when and where HE CHOOSES... it is NO DIFFERENT concerning the pathway to the NEXT LIFE... we DO NOT choose ANY of its parameters either, ...He does!

I nor YOU were CHOSEN to be PETER... PETER was chosen to be PETER... Why?  Because GOD has a purpose and HE is WORKING out that PURPOSE... neither YOU nor I nor PETER, have any part in DIRECTING the COURSE of that PURPOSE... and neither YOU nor I nor PETER shall have any CREDIT for it... it shall be HIS and HIS ALONE!  The LIFEGIVER, chooses when LIFE is GIVEN...  YOU and I and PETER, all have our parts in the process of SALVATION according to each of our individual places within the accomplishment of HIS PURPOSE!

The road to destruction is wide and many enter therein, but the road to salvation (for the soul), is narrow and few there be that find it.

The verse you quote translates the word APOLLUMI... as DESTRUCTION... this is the VERY SAME WORD translated as LOST, in the Parables of the LOST coin, LOST son, LOST ...sheep!  (Luke 15) ALL the (LOST/Destroyed) subjects in these Parables were EVENTUALLY FOUND PT...  Look it up brother!  :Sparkletooth:

I suppose we are all led to believe as the author deams appropriate (not of our doing , but the Lords).

GOD is SOVEREIGN my friend... which means HE is IN CONTROL of ALL (not just SOME) THINGS... The Scripture states:

(1 Cor 12:3) Wherefore I give you to UNDERSTAND, that NO MAN speaking BY the SPIRIT of GOD, calleth JESUS accursed, and NO MAN CAN SAY that JESUS CHRIST is the LORD, but BY the HOLY GHOST. 

This verse states that the ability to CONFESS JESUS CHRIST, can only be manifest in a MAN, ...BY... the Holy Spirit...

(Matt 10:32)  WHOSOEVER shall CONFESS Me BEFORE Men, him will I CONFESS before My Father which is in heaven

This verse states that ANYONE who makes such a CONFESSION, will be CONFESSED for by CHRIST... to GOD...

(Phil 2:11) and EVERY TONGUE should CONFESS that Jesus Christ is Lord to the GLORY of GOD the Father

This verse leaves out NO ONE Peacetroll... EVERY TONGUE means EVERY TONGUE, not SOME TONGUES or FEW TONGUES or MANY TONGUES, but E-V-E-R-Y TONGUE!

Finally:

(Matt 10:39) He that FINDETH his life, shall LOSE it, and he that LOSETH his life for MY SAKE, shall FIND IT...

This verse is stating that as long as your TONGUE holds its CONFESSION of CHRIST as LORD, your life is LOST... but once your TONGUE (enabled BY the Holy Ghost), CONFESSES Him as LORD, you shall FIND IT!

We remain LOST until we are FOUND Peacetroll... One that is FOUND does NOT, ...FIND him/herself... CHRIST is LOOKING for us, not the other way around!  He is the SHEPHERD in SEARCH of the SHEEP... He does the calling, He does the drawing, He does the saving... and HE, ...gets the CREDIT for it when it is accomplished!

It is SO SIMPLE, that the complex fail to see it...  :dontknow:

I reckon we can agree to disagree.

That's fine brother... I value YOU with the Heart of CHRIST without RESPECT of PERSONS, for it is HIS HEART in which we all are found... and HIS HEART has NO RESPECT of PERSONS... He LOVES ALL...

Peace is in believing Christ Jesus over all others.

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Matthew 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

I completely agree with your statement and the verses noted... However, this process is done IN DUE TIME, for each individual... and ONE by ONE, we come (by the time of HIS CALLING, CHOICE and DECISION) ...to the FOOT of the CROSS... (John 6:44 & 65 / John 12:32)

One thing to consider brother Peacetroll as you deliver your particular version of the Gospel of (incomplete) Partiality... Noting GOD as a RESPECTER of PERSONS, by "choosing one (wheat) over another (darnel)"... (no offense intended)

CHRIST was even concerned that FRAGMENTS of FOOD should not be LOST (Apollumi/destroyed)... (John 6:12),  How much MORE, the SOULS of MEN, who are COMPLETELY helpless to save themselves...  :dontknow:

Peace...  :HeartThrob:

In  JESUS...willieH :gamer:

[1424241]

It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. 

I just read somewhere that the word 'after' in this passage is not in the original text. Haven't had time to chech it - does anybody know if that's true?
  - byron

Hey, Byron. I checked on it. It appears to me that the greek word behind "after" is "meta".

Hebrews 9:27  And <kai> as <kata> <hosos> it is appointed <apokeimai> unto men <anthropos> once <hapax> to die <apothnesko>, but <de> after <meta> this <touto> the judgment <krisis>:

3326. meta
meta meta met-ah'

a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive association, or accusative succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between 575 or 1537 and 1519 or 4314; less intimate than 1722 and less close than 4862):--after(-ward), X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-)on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-)to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother T... :hithere:

Wille Man..
matey I must put this in because for what ever reason i get this image of ya when i read ya post..
so forgive me first :laughing7:


(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/personnages/divers/diver025.gif)

Okay Graham,  :JCThink: ...who gave you this picture of me?  :prankster:  :pointlaugh:

Peace...  :HeartThrob:

In  JESUS...willieH :gamer:

PS... I thought I burned all the copies!  :grin: :laughing7: :laughhand:

[Peacetroll]

Jesus Christ is God and Lord.

Blessed are those who believe this and have not seen him in person.

Spiritual eyes?

No one calls him God and Lord without the spirit of truth.

Again, we shall agree to disagree on the points given.

[willieH]

Jesus Christ is God and Lord.

Blessed are those who believe this and have not seen him in person.

Spiritual eyes?

No one calls him God and Lord without the spirit of truth.

Again, we shall agree to disagree on the points given.

Again, no problem widat, dude...  :laughing7: 

Because one has come to know CHRIST, does not equate that one to KNOW it ALL eh?  The Revelation of JESUS CHRIST is LIFE-LONG... from the ALPHA to the OMEGA of each life...

I have sufficiently noted my position with supporting Scriptures... Let the readers, by the Spirit of GOD, be led to the elements of truth...  :dontknow:

Always keeping in mind that no one, "knows-it-all"...  :happygrin:

Peace...  :HeartThrob:

In  JESUS...willieH :gamer:

[firstborn888]

It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. 

I just read somewhere that the word 'after' in this passage is not in the original text. Haven't had time to chech it - does anybody know if that's true?
  - byron

Hey, Byron. I checked on it. It appears to me that the greek word behind "after" is "meta".

Hebrews 9:27  And <kai> as <kata> <hosos> it is appointed <apokeimai> unto men <anthropos> once <hapax> to die <apothnesko>, but <de> after <meta> this <touto> the judgment <krisis>:

3326. meta
meta meta met-ah'

a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive association, or accusative succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between 575 or 1537 and 1519 or 4314; less intimate than 1722 and less close than 4862):--after(-ward), X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-)on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-)to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.

Thanks for looking that up!
  - byron

[reFORMer]

It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. 

I just read somewhere that the word 'after' in this passage is not in the original text. Haven't had time to chech it - does anybody know if that's true?
  - byron

Hey, Byron. I checked on it. It appears to me that the greek word behind "after" is "meta".

Hebrews 9:27  And <kai> as <kata> <hosos> it is appointed <apokeimai> unto men <anthropos> once <hapax> to die <apothnesko>, but <de> after <meta> this <touto> the judgment <krisis>:

3326. meta
meta meta met-ah'

a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive association, or accusative succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between 575 or 1537 and 1519 or 4314; less intimate than 1722 and less close than 4862):--after(-ward), X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-)on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-)to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.

Thanks for looking that up!
  - byron

What is first specified is "denoting accompaniment" which could yield:  "...reserved to the  (hu)men to be dying once, yet accompanying this:  judging..."  With the word  "metanoia" (poorly represented by the English "repent") it represents change, as, "after mind" or "change mind."  The KJV translated it "with" 346 times but "after" only 95 times according to A. E. Knoch's concordance.  Verse 28 goes on to equate this "death and judging" with Jesus' death 1.) for sins and to be seen 2.) apart from sin unto salvation (unto those awaiting Him.)

[1424241]

It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. 

I just read somewhere that the word 'after' in this passage is not in the original text. Haven't had time to chech it - does anybody know if that's true?
  - byron

Hey, Byron. I checked on it. It appears to me that the greek word behind "after" is "meta".

Hebrews 9:27  And <kai> as <kata> <hosos> it is appointed <apokeimai> unto men <anthropos> once <hapax> to die <apothnesko>, but <de> after <meta> this <touto> the judgment <krisis>:

3326. meta
meta meta met-ah'

a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive association, or accusative succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between 575 or 1537 and 1519 or 4314; less intimate than 1722 and less close than 4862):--after(-ward), X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-)on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-)to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.

Thanks for looking that up!
  - byron

What is first specified is "denoting accompaniment" which could yield:  "...reserved to the  (hu)men to be dying once, yet accompanying this:  judging..."  With the word  "metanoia" (poorly represented by the English "repent") it represents change, as, "after mind" or "change mind."  The KJV translated it "with" 346 times but "after" only 95 times according to A. E. Knoch's concordance.  Verse 28 goes on to equate this "death and judging" with Jesus' death 1.) for sins and to be seen 2.) apart from sin unto salvation (unto those awaiting Him.)

Interesting.

[firstborn888]

It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. 

I just read somewhere that the word 'after' in this passage is not in the original text. Haven't had time to chech it - does anybody know if that's true?
  - byron

Hey, Byron. I checked on it. It appears to me that the greek word behind "after" is "meta".

Hebrews 9:27  And <kai> as <kata> <hosos> it is appointed <apokeimai> unto men <anthropos> once <hapax> to die <apothnesko>, but <de> after <meta> this <touto> the judgment <krisis>:

3326. meta
meta meta met-ah'

a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive association, or accusative succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between 575 or 1537 and 1519 or 4314; less intimate than 1722 and less close than 4862):--after(-ward), X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-)on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-)to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.

Thanks for looking that up!
  - byron

What is first specified is "denoting accompaniment" which could yield:  "...reserved to the  (hu)men to be dying once, yet accompanying this:  judging..."  With the word  "metanoia" (poorly represented by the English "repent") it represents change, as, "after mind" or "change mind."  The KJV translated it "with" 346 times but "after" only 95 times according to A. E. Knoch's concordance.  Verse 28 goes on to equate this "death and judging" with Jesus' death 1.) for sins and to be seen 2.) apart from sin unto salvation (unto those awaiting Him.)

Thanks for clarifying, I didn't have time to comment but this is an ETers mainstay scripture and it is interesting how some pull this totally out of context to make it mean something different than what it does...
  - b

[1424241]

I still don't see what support it gives ET even if all the words mean exactly what they are thought to mean today. Judgement is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. It's justice. Judgement would give a just punishment for a crime, and there is not enough time in our short lives to commit a crime that deserves a never-ending punishment. So even ifit is appointed unto men once to die and then judgement, you have to ask yourself... "what comes after the judgement?"

[reFORMer]

I'm still trying to understand Heb 9:27-28...while 27 could be read as judging is in dying it might unbalance the symetry with 28...

It's the only reference I can remember used as a pretence of Biblical support to the doctrine God loves you until you die; and, that death seals your fate or destiny.  Whatever 9:27-28 says, that's nowhere close!  That is nowhere taught in the Bible!  This is why I'm quoting myself in the following.  It's not necessarily directly Universal Reconciliation, but it's related.  Though we sometimes come to feel otherwise, with God there's never NO hope and that's true for everybody.  I get fed up with hearing so much of, "What my Pastor or a televangelist told me, I take that as absolutly true, part of God's revelation," when it should be in the trash.  There's more but it's late and perhaps wanders too far from whatever we're supposed to be talking about.

     Something Jesus said was, "who believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live." (in John 11:25-26)  After Jesus died on the cross Peter says He preached to the spirits in prison that had been disobedient in the days of Noah.  "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient (no longer disobedient means their prison was working), when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1 Pet 3:18-20)  It is definitely taught by God's own word that:  "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (1 Pet 4:6)

     In the book of Jonah in the Bible it says after Jonah died and went to hell he prayed and God saved him.  Men made up the idea that God loves you until you die.  The gospel is "Christ died for our sins" and the Bible did not add "so we could have a chance to accept Him."  That others would benefit from faith in the gospel we do what we can to get them to believe. (cf., 2 Cor 5:18-20 KJV)

[willieH]

willieH: Hi fullarmor... :hithere:

It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment.   Thats a Bible verse and it proves that there is no chance to be saved after death.  When a person dies thats it. Its judgment time. And you either got it or you don't.
      You UR people are saying the same thing  certain other groups say about their false doctrine. "It takes a revelation of God to see what we are saying that it is true".   And the reason you are forced into that position is because what you UR people say is NOT Bible!
       UR people twist the word of God and make it mean what they want it to. ET people simply let the Bible say what it says.

Oh really?  :mshock:  "Twisting" ya say?  :Chinscratch:

hmmm... well, here's a few forya "fullarmor"... let's see what YOU THINK they SAY:

(1 Tim 4:9-10) This is a FAITHFUL SAYING and WORTHY of ALL ACCEPTATION:  for therefore we both labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the LIVING God, who ...IS... the SAVIOR of ALL MEN, ...ESPECIALLY, those that BELIEVE...

It will be interesting to see how YOU might "TWIST" these 2 verses to SAY ...OTHER... than WHAT they, ...SAY!

For it is quite plain, that they say:

1. The "saying" to follow is FAITHFUL (full of FAITH)
2. they say: it is WORTHY of ALL ACCEPTATION (worthy to be accepted by ALL)
3. They say: GOD ...IS... the SAVIOR of ALL MEN (not might be or could be, or should be)
4. They say: ESPECIALLY, those that BELIEVE (but not ONLY or, EXCLUSIVELY)

Let's see what YOU have to say that "they say" brother... when you're done "dealing" these two, we'll give you a few more "pretzel verses"! (there are over 150, so you might bring a lunch!)

(Just so you are able to get a "head start" so you can begin thinking about it early, we'll see what you think these "say": 1 John 4:14... then Rom 5:18-20... then 1 Tim 2:3-6... then 1 Cor 15:22...)  :wink3:

Peace...   :boogie:

In  JESUS...willieH   :drummer: