water baptism for one

[micah7:9]

Perhaps there has been a post on this, I did not go back and check it out.
Do men/woman have to be water baptised in the natural for salvation?
Is the waffer and a sip of grape juice or wine a must for communion goers or they are going to hell?

Must man continue these rituals? Are these just rituals for man and his mind set?

I believe them to be of no account at all. God is Spirit and those that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

He that has an ear let him hear what the Spirit is saying.

[CHB]

It's all works which God will judge. (1Cor. 3:13-15)

Notice: that if Christ dwells in us we have no more works of our own. In other words we will realize that we don't have to do these works, but "it is God which worketh in you BOTH to WILL and to DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

I think this is what the second death is about, dying to self, or realizing we don't have to work for our salvation.

All of these works are of no use except to be burned away.

CHB

[Quaesitor]

Well these 2 rituals were ordained by our Lord himself but both are symbols which are shadows of the real things both are there to remind ourselves of what they really mean.

Is it a matter of salvation?
No

Are we asked by the King to proceed with these rituals?
Yes

But can christians get through the salvation stuff which is the passage through the red sea and start walking to the promised land?

[micah7:9]

Joh 6:63  the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;

[thinktank]

good topic I had this question too.

I think that baptism can be achieved without water, but why did john baptize with water.  :dontknow:

The book of acts shows men who are christians, but never heard of baptism or the holy ghost. I think this passage proves that one needs the holy ghost to be a christian who has power. :2c:

[micah7:9]

Act 19:3  and he said unto them, `To what, then, were ye baptized?' and they said, `To John's baptism.'
John was called to baptise with water.
Luke 3:16, John 1:26, Acts 1:5, Acts 11:16

[Quaesitor]

Joh 6:63  the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;

But you do realize that it is not a matter of "matter" but of energy? I mean when Jesus or Paul is talking about not living by the flesh, they mean not living by the power of the flesh.
The correct image is that of a sailboat versus a rowboat not between a steel boat and a wood boat.
It is not because being baptised is a physical experience that it becomes of the flesh, it's meaning is spiritual, the life force behind it is spiritual.

Because refusing the flesh for the spiritual in a physical versus non-physical way is called platonism.

[micah7:9]

Eph 4:5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

[Quaesitor]

36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"[f] 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

[thinktank]

36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"[f] 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

Good find, and notice that they are alone, there is none there to show off to as is often claimed. I believe there is power in water for it is life, when the spirit combines with earthly water, the substance that man is made of it creates a fusion of power. Jesus walked upon water and also turned water into wine
and wine is represented as the holy ghost. I will pour out new wine.

The blind man needed Jesus to spit on him, water and also clay, to heal him completely. :2c:

Baptism is the process of dying to self, burying the old man to make way for the new. So Jesus turns the old man [water] into wine [born again by the spirit].

Jesus walks upon water conquering and ascending above earthly things[water] to make way for heavenly things[holy spirit]

[LS]

Perhaps there has been a post on this, I did not go back and check it out.
Do men/woman have to be water baptised in the natural for salvation?
Is the waffer and a sip of grape juice or wine a must for communion goers or they are going to hell?

Must man continue these rituals? Are these just rituals for man and his mind set?

I believe them to be of no account at all. God is Spirit and those that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

He that has an ear let him hear what the Spirit is saying.

If Jesus told us to do them ... can they really be of no account at all?

I don't know that they are necessary for salvation, but since Jesus gave us instruction on these matters, I think they are important to follow as much as we are able as joyful servants.

[Yab Yum]

If Jesus asked us to do something my vote is let's do it.

:bgdance:

[micah7:9]

1Co 1:17  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made void.

[WhiteWings]

While I think it's not needed for salvation it obviously ment a lot to Jesus.
He started His ministry with it and received the HS during baptism.

[thinktank]

1Co 1:17  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made void.

He did baptize though, just that it was not his primary purpose, unlike john the baptist, who's mission was to prepare people for christ by water baptism.

[WhiteWings]

^KJVJoh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Maybe His who ministry was a huge baptism? Isn't receiving knowledge of devine things a sort of baptism???????

[micah7:9]

Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water
John was to baptize with water, that was his ministry. If water baptism was so important, why didnt Jesus baptize anyone?
Joh 4:1  When therefore the Lord knew that the Pharisees heard that Jesus more disciples doth make and baptize than John,
Joh 4:2  (though indeed Jesus himself was not baptizing, but his disciples,)
Paul started baptizing and baptized some, but he quit, it was revealed to him that there is ONE BAPTISIM.
2Co 5:17  so that if any one is in Christ-- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[WhiteWings]

4:2 is very clear :thumbsup:

[thinktank]

Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water
John was to baptize with water, that was his ministry. If water baptism was so important, why didnt Jesus baptize anyone?
Joh 4:1  When therefore the Lord knew that the Pharisees heard that Jesus more disciples doth make and baptize than John,
Joh 4:2  (though indeed Jesus himself was not baptizing, but his disciples,)
Paul started baptizing and baptized some, but he quit, it was revealed to him that there is ONE BAPTISIM.
2Co 5:17  so that if any one is in Christ-- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

but what else Jesus did not do but his disciples did?

Why does johns disciples fast but yours do not?

They will fast after the bridegroom is gone. (something like that)


Also Peter baptized the eunuch, which someone quoted the verse in this thread. Peter was close to the lord and even given to be the rock of the church, whatever that means, I think it means leader or starter of the church, so you think he would tell him about baptism?

Also the command baptize them in the name of the son and the holy ghost, many commands like this.

[micah7:9]

2Co 5:17  so that if any one is in Christ-- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[thinktank]

2Co 5:17  so that if any one is in Christ-- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

I belive this, that one does not need baptism to be saved or even to receive the holy ghost, for the spirit is everywhere and one can receive the spirit in ones house. e.g the day of pentecost.

But I still believe that water baptisms helps to crixify old desires and for one to feel renewed. People who take par t immersed in water often feel clean and a big smile is upon their face as they rise.

[WhiteWings]

Ofcourse baptism represents rebirth. You enter a water grave. Die. And get resurrected.
Not after 3 days like our Master but more like 3 seconds  :winkgrin:

I think the important thing of baptism is not the baptism itself but a stage in a process.
An atheist that has read 2 chapter and thinks "Good stuff" does want to get baptized immediately.
I think it's learning process. And when you feel ready you take baptism. And it's the getting ready that's what really counts. Countless hows of study.
It's a crown on your study work.
At least that's it for me....

[micah7:9]

Hold your nose

[Quaesitor]

Hold your nose

:laughing7:

[micah7:9]

 :laughing7: