why should this be so scary?

[waitinontheLamb]

I have been coming here off and on for several years now and just cannot seem to make the leap. When I speak of hell I have what seems to be a check in my spirit telling me its wrong but then I wonder if that's just wishful thinking. I speak of this awful place but can't imagine my loved ones being there. I hate Hell. It robs me of joy. It keeps me bound in effort. I never can meet the demands. But I am scared of releasing it. Is that sick? What is wrong with me? I cannot fathom God listening to the screams of millions forever. How can that be? I am wicked and could never do such a thing to anyone. But what if I am wrong? So confused.

[Quaesitor]

God has shown me very recently that the truth sets us free, if believing in hell is a heavy burden for you then do not hesitate to lay it down at Jesus's feet and be free!

It's scary because your your flesh refuses that freedom and try to keep you enslaved.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Ask Him to reveal to you His unconditional love in fullness. Sooner or later, He will, just praise Him for it. When THAT is made life in you, it's a very short leap from there.

And fear hath TORMENT, and GOD has not given us a spirit of fear. Reverence of Him and His ways is the fear of God; not fearing He's going to beat you up every minute of the day and after.

Focus on Him, not on hell, let His nature be revealed to you inwardly, because His love perfected, casts out all fear. Blessings to you in your journey..... :girlheart:

[WhiteWings]

You are saved by believing in Jesus. Not by understanding concepts like hell.

An article I posted in another thread:

Do you realize, that what you believe tells God what sort of person you are? Have you ever stopped to consider exactly what you do believe? Have you ever stopped and considered why you believe what you believe?
Paul said at 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things" (King James Version). The Greek word for "prove" there is dokimazete (dokimazete) from dokimazw (dokimazo) and it means to prove, to test. But what you have not been told is that it also means to approve, to approve after trial, to judge worthy. God does not want you just to prove all things, He also wants you to approve of all things as well. And that is different, because now the responsibility is upon you not just to prove what you believe, but also to approve of what you believe.
For instance, if you are in a church that teaches Hell fire and eternal suffering, (watch this very carefully) in your heart, you have to approve of that.
If you belong to a church that teaches eternal death for some, (again, watch this very carefully) in your heart, you have to approve of that. What sort of a heart could approve of Hell fire and eternal suffering?
What sort of a heart could approve of eternal death for some? The doctrine of Universal Salvation teaches that all will have eternal life, including Satan and the demons. And that one day, all will have the same nature as God. What sort of a heart could not approve of Universal Salvation, eternal life for all?
You see, God is the Ultimate and Universal Salvation is the Ultimate. Whatever you do, do not expect anything less than the Ultimate from God.

Isn't one of the greatest commands to love?
It could be just me but I think that command doesn't mean you should love=approve that 95% of humanity is being tortured in ways that we can't even comprehend.

Not that it helps you but I think you have a problem with the "approve" part.

[peacemaker]

What sort of a heart would approve of eternal death for some?

"One made of stone, an idol of the heart; not of flesh."  :mshock:

peacemaker

[thinktank]

Isn't one of the greatest commands to love?
It could be just me but I think that command doesn't mean you should love=approve that 95% of humanity is being tortured in ways that we can't even comprehend.

Not that it helps you but I think you have a problem with the "approve" part.

Whitewings


I think they do have a problem with it. The same people wince when they see a cat being run over. But it's hard to question the actions of God, who are ye to judge God or even who are ye to question the mighty learned man of God, he's gone to winston etc. So it's not the peoples fault it's the pastors, the teachers. The reason as to why the pastors teach this stuff is numerous. Some examples include, 'it's the tradditional teaching who am I to change it' view, then there's the, 'this is what the scripture teaches' view, then there is the 'I don't really care' view', then there's the I am to affraid view on all types of levels [fear of God, people, fear of dwindling church members etc] and also there is the 'change takes time' view.
Many here did not come to UR until many years, so shouldn't ET believers be given the same grace?
Change takes time and some people change quicker than others, the more grounded/stubborn types (can be a good attribute but also a bad one), the ones who don't change much are not likely to accept this change, unless they themselves change.

[WhiteWings]

I think they do have a problem with it.

You speak of "they" I was just talking to
waitinontheLamb
That said I agree with your post.

[waitinontheLamb]

Thank you for the answers. I really do appreciate it. I guess I am just trying to sort it out. It's what I have known but something tells me its wrong. Something tells me God is beautiful and kind and wonderful and that He loves my family and friends even more then I do. I want to believe that my Mormon grandma is okay and my best friend who hung himself and my biological mom who died of aids because of prostitution and drug abuse. I guess I just want to be able to really love Him.

[WhiteWings]

Not judging any of the people you mentioned but concider this verse:

CJB  Romans 5:20 And the Torah came into the picture so that the offence would proliferate; but where sin proliferated, grace proliferated even more.

CSB  Romans 5:20 The law came along to multiply the trespass. But where sin multiplied, grace multiplied even more,

DBY  Romans 5:20 But law came in, in order that the offence might abound; but where sin abounded grace has overabounded,

DRA  Romans 5:20 Now the law entered in, that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more abound.

ERV  Romans 5:20 And the law came in beside, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly:

ESV  Romans 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

ETH  Romans 5:20 But the entrance which was of the law, (made) sin to increase; and where sin increased, there grace hath abounded:

[waitinontheLamb]

Thank you for those. Funny thing is that I am a more despicable sinner then any of those I mentioned. But my background has told me that because I received Jesus in life I am okay and they are tormented. Once asked a pastor about my grandma who was Mormon and one of the most precious people ever in my life. Was told that if she is in hell she certainly doesn't want me to come there. Strangely enough that didn't help. She was the most beautiful person I have known and died in so much pain from breast cancer. Oh how I hope for her to have peace now.

[Molly]

[grace]  "did much more abound"

G5248
υπερπερισσεύω
huperperisseuō
hoop-er-per-is-syoo'-o
From G5228 and G4052; to super abound: - abound much more, exceeding.


From

G5228
υπέρ
huper
hoop-er'
A primary preposition; "over", that is, (with the genitive case) of place, above, beyond, across, or causal, for the sake of, instead, regarding; with the accusative case superior to, more than. In compounds it retains many of the listed applications: - (+ exceeding abundantly) above, in (on) behalf of, beyond, by, + very chiefest, concerning, exceeding (above, -ly), for, + very highly, more (than), of, over, on the part of, for sake of, in stead, than, to (-ward), very. In compounds it retains many of the above applications.



and



G4052
περισσεύω
perisseuō
per-is-syoo'-o
From G4053; to superabound (in quantity or quality), be in excess, be superfluous; also (transitively) to cause to superabound or excel: - (make, more) abound, (have, have more) abundance, (be more) abundant, be the better, enough and to spare, exceed, excel, increase, be left, redound, remain (over and above).



grace beyond abundance--over excessive grace--does it get any better than that?

[WhiteWings]

Funny thing is that I am a more despicable sinner then any of those I mentioned.

In that case grace will abound even more for you.
Whatever the level of sin, grace will match it. Or even goes way beyond matching it.

[thinktank]

The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin and unrighteousness

[Paul Hazelwood]

But what if I am wrong? 

Could you explain your type of belief and what it is you are afraid of happening if you are wrong?

[shawn]

But what if I am wrong?  

Could you explain your type of belief and what it is you are afraid of happening if you are wrong?

I can tell you from my point of view my fears that surround embracing UR.  I fear being deceived and being a heretic.  I fear believing what I want to believe.  I fear judging God and his judgement with a finite mind.  I fear that this small group of UR believers couldn't have it figured out when 99% of the Christian world accepts ET teachings as truth.  I fear misleading others and having to give account for that misleading.

Those are my fears.  With that said, those get lesser by the day.  Looking at the Bible NIV I believe there is stronger evidence for ED...and very little that supports ET.  With that said, even that doesn't feel right to me.  My spirit is passionate about believing UR but my flesh is weak.  I pray that God relieves me of these fears and allows me to accept the truth whatever that may be.

[waitinontheLamb]

That there really is a hell and I give false security to people.

But what if I am wrong? 

Could you explain your type of belief and what it is you are afraid of happening if you are wrong?

[waitinontheLamb]

Actually this post explained it perfectly.

But what if I am wrong?  

Could you explain your type of belief and what it is you are afraid of happening if you are wrong?

I can tell you from my point of view my fears that surround embracing UR.  I fear being deceived and being a heretic.  I fear believing what I want to believe.  I fear judging God and his judgement with a finite mind.  I fear that this small group of UR believers couldn't have it figured out when 99% of the Christian world accepts ET teachings as truth.  I fear misleading others and having to give account for that misleading.

Those are my fears.  With that said, those get lesser by the day.  Looking at the Bible NIV I believe there is stronger evidence for ED...and very little that supports ET.  With that said, even that doesn't feel right to me.  My spirit is passionate about believing UR but my flesh is weak.  I pray that God relieves me of these fears and allows me to accept the truth whatever that may be.

[jabcat]

I pray that God .... allows me to accept the truth whatever that may be.

:thumbsup:  Then you're in the right place.  He will.  Seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you.  Pray for wisdom.

[Paul Hazelwood]

But what if I am wrong?  

Could you explain your type of belief and what it is you are afraid of happening if you are wrong?

I can tell you from my point of view my fears that surround embracing UR.  I fear being deceived and being a heretic.  I fear believing what I want to believe.  I fear judging God and his judgement with a finite mind.  I fear that this small group of UR believers couldn't have it figured out when 99% of the Christian world accepts ET teachings as truth.  I fear misleading others and having to give account for that misleading.

Those are my fears.  With that said, those get lesser by the day.  Looking at the Bible NIV I believe there is stronger evidence for ED...and very little that supports ET.  With that said, even that doesn't feel right to me.  My spirit is passionate about believing UR but my flesh is weak.  I pray that God relieves me of these fears and allows me to accept the truth whatever that may be.

So what exactly is your position on Jesus?  If you are wrong about hell does that negate your belief in Jesus and therefore damn you to hell for all eternity?

If so, please explain how.

[waitinontheLamb]

Well I am a pretty messy Christian. Many would tell me that my lack of holiness would be an indicator of a "false convert." Who knows? All I know is that I want to be His and I hate who I have been and what my heart and mind are capable of. I blow it so very much. I just want to truly love God not tremble in fear of screaming forever in pain. I don't know how to make that work in my mind. I can't see what that could ever accomplish but to make someone be filled with even more hate.        Sorry so jumbled in my thinking. So much to sort through.

[jabcat]

God is love.  I Jn 4:8

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: If He will NEVER leave you nor forsake you, wouldn't "hell" as it is understood by ET'ers, be a bit of a challenge to that? I mean, does NEVER start and stop? Blessings....

[waitinontheLamb]

You are right and more then I can express I want ur to be truth. To do away with hell would be wonderful. I pray God will lift that fog if it truly is one and reveal himself to me. I have ordered the book whatever became of Melanie. Hopefully that will help too. Death is a powerful nemesis right now.

[herefornow]

You are right and more then I can express I want ur to be truth. To do away with hell would be wonderful. I pray God will lift that fog if it truly is one and reveal himself to me. I have ordered the book whatever became of Melanie. Hopefully that will help too. Death is a powerful nemesis right now.

UR is a bit harder to prove to ME than the "no hell" part, but at least know that from what I have been able to study, there is no way in hell  :laughhand:  the evangelical vision of hell could be true.  I have studied this day in and day out for a very long time, and I had to be SURE that there wasn't an evangelical hell before I could tell anybody else there wasn't.  There is no HINT of it in the Bible.  

Use the mind you were given, give up the fear for a few days, trust God's love, and start studying.  I don't know how much you have actually studied, but it came down to just a few things in the end for me.  It wasn't terribly difficult (the studying part) once I started.  Much easier to understand than the aions, aidios, eternals, everlastings, forevers, and so on.  :umnick:

If you would like to know more about how I came to believe that "hell" was a lie, I'll type a longer post.  I just don't know how much you have been told or what you have studied so far.

[waitinontheLamb]

I would love to read your testimony. I have looked at a good bit of the info on here and plan to dig in a lot deeper. I keep going back to Romans 5 and how clear Pauls statement is that all are saved. Study I will. Thanks for your encouragement. There must be a reason I am repeatedly drawn back to this topic and why whenever I speak about hell to someone its as if my spirit is crying against it.