Christian Rap ???????

[jbertonbounds]

I just don't understand how someone who "did not believe in him, nor accept him" would also be worshiping him.  :Chinscratch:

Matthew 15 was directed at the Pharisees, who were very religious and devout.
Yet they "worshiped in vain" because they didn't really know God's love because they did not have his love in their hearts.
Their worship was just going through the motions, so to speak.
Remember that the entire law is summed up in love.

So they did believe, and they did accept God, yet they worshiped in vain...

The pharisees did not believe in Jesus, only God.  Their belief was a head knowledge of God, not a saving belief in Jesus.  They did not have his love in their hearts.  They were mean, dishonest, proud, boastful, full of themselves, liars, slanderers, blasphemers, murderers, oppressors, etc.  Although the teaching of ET does include some of these sins, today's Christians are nothing to compare to the Pharisees!  They were evil!

[Seth]

I might be looking at this from a different perspective of what it means to worship in vain. It's not to say that God rejects their sincerity or doesn't have compassion. The question is how EFFECTIVE their worship is, if they are teaching people to be deathly afraid of God. If their worship songs go along with false preaching, then what good is the worship doing? At least, it's not doing a bit of good for the world.

[Seth]

The pharisees did not believe in Jesus, only God.  Their belief was a head knowledge of God, not a saving belief in Jesus.  They did not have his love in their hearts.  They were mean, dishonest, proud, boastful, full of themselves, liars, slanderers, blasphemers, murderers, oppressors, etc.  Although the teaching of ET does include some of these sins, today's Christians are nothing to compare to the Pharisees!  They were evil!

I know the Pharisees are the boogymen of the Bible, but I think we should start seeing the Pharisee is within us all and that is why they COULDN'T worship in anything but vain.

[jbertonbounds]

The pharisees did not believe in Jesus, only God.  Their belief was a head knowledge of God, not a saving belief in Jesus.  They did not have his love in their hearts.  They were mean, dishonest, proud, boastful, full of themselves, liars, slanderers, blasphemers, murderers, oppressors, etc.  Although the teaching of ET does include some of these sins, today's Christians are nothing to compare to the Pharisees!  They were evil!

I know the Pharisees are the boogymen of the Bible, but I think we should start seeing the Pharisee is within us all and that is why they COULDN'T worship in anything but vain.

That's my point.  None of us are perfect, and so none of us has perfect doctrine.  Therefore, by your philosophy, we all worship in vain.  I do not believe my worship is in vain, despite my imperfections, and I believe the same is true for ET Christians.

[Seth]

Not all of us have perfect doctrine, but that doesn't mean we are teaching for doctrine the.....COMMANDMENTS....of men. When you left your ET church, you stopped following their commandments to believe in eternal torment. Your worship isn't in vain because you aren't following their commandments, but the doctrine of Christ instead. Imperfect doctrine can come by means other than following the commandments of men. It could come by simply misunderstanding the Bible by reading it. I think that is a notable difference.

When Jesus said "they worship me in vain" he was quoting from the OT. They all knew "God" but not really because Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. They couldn't heal themselves from sin by the commandments of men. So their worship was in vain, because it didn't result in their salvation.

All the sincere worship that goes on in ET has the same effect. They think Jesus is going to torture Grandma in literal flames of fire, and that he will fail in his task of saving the world. Then they worship. How much does their worship save them from their own false doctrine, which is a sin?

[jbertonbounds]

Not all of us have perfect doctrine, but that doesn't mean we are teaching for doctrine the.....COMMANDMENTS....of men. When you left your ET church, you stopped following their commandments to believe in eternal torment. Your worship isn't in vain because you aren't following their commandments, but the doctrine of Christ instead. Imperfect doctrine can come by means other than following the commandments of men. It could come by simply misunderstanding the Bible by reading it. I think that is a notable difference.

When Jesus said "they worship me in vain" he was quoting from the OT. They all knew "God" but not really because Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. They couldn't heal themselves from sin by the commandments of men. So their worship was in vain, because it didn't result in their salvation.

All the sincere worship that goes on in ET has the same effect. They think Jesus is going to torture Grandma in literal flames of fire, and that he will fail in his task of saving the world. Then they worship. How much does their worship save them from their own false doctrine, which is a sin?

You do present some good points here.  The teaching of the doctrine of ET is a serious sin.  I don't know how they can truly worship a God whom they believe is roasting Grandma as we speak.  I couldn't.  That is why I felt so free after I embraced the truth or UR, and my worship became so much deeper, and my love for God grew so much deeper. 

Worship comes in many forms: giving, singing, praising, quoting scripture, studying scripture, visiting the sick, caring for the poor, witnessing, the list goes on.  Maybe some forms of worship, like witnessing, are made of no effect by ET.  But it isn't worship that saves us from anything.  Only grace through faith leads to salvation.  ET's have faith, it's just tainted with some serious flaws in doctrine.  Yes, I believe their serious flaws hinder their walk with the Lord, and hold them back from being effective witnesses to God's power and love. 

[Seth]

 :iagree:

[JulieTang84]

You do present some good points here.  The teaching of the doctrine of ET is a serious sin.  I don't know how they can truly worship a God whom they believe is roasting Grandma as we speak.  I couldn't.  That is why I felt so free after I embraced the truth or UR, and my worship became so much deeper, and my love for God grew so much deeper. 

Worship comes in many forms: giving, singing, praising, quoting scripture, studying scripture, visiting the sick, caring for the poor, witnessing, the list goes on.  Maybe some forms of worship, like witnessing, are made of no effect by ET.  But it isn't worship that saves us from anything.  Only grace through faith leads to salvation.  ET's have faith, it's just tainted with some serious flaws in doctrine.  Yes, I believe their serious flaws hinder their walk with the Lord, and hold them back from being effective witnesses to God's power and love.

This has been a great discussion, but I have a question for everyone.


Can a Blind man see that what he is trying to make, color or build be what the customer really wants. Likewise a deaf person, can they too compose a piece of music , or sing a song beautifully when they are unable to hear their own words, or anything?


Yet, the Blind and Deaf Christians are very much the same, but with a huge twist. Father told us that he has hardened the hearts of the would be wise ones. These are not deaf and blind by accident; however, DEAF and BLIND spiritually they are.


So with this taken into account: Are they seeking to destroy or are they simply trying to do the very best they can with the very little sight and hearing they have.


Who amongst us here today, was not once just as deaf and just as blind as the ones we are talking about. Who among us, told Father "Enough is Enough, I am sick of this, just give the truth?"


Hopefully no one. Rather, Father turned us all around on HIS TIME, in HIS WAY. Some of us might have recognized  the  truth instantly, others not so much. The thing that we must never forget, Father bought us here and the others are doing the best they can with the little they have. That they have great conviction is just a testament of how much they are seeking Father in all his Glory. For Father has surely kept it from them.


All in Fathers time, not ours.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[mplsfitter539]

On this same subject being pursued here I wanted to inject something that should agree with Seth. My personal experience is to simply ask people to define who Yahweh is. If there are  radical differences in the Elohim they worship and my Elohim I make a mental note that they are worshiping a different or false Elohim and they don't have a clue. I have found that when I point out the huge differences between their definition and mine, it tends to anger them immensely. But my point is if they are worshiping a false Elohim then ALL of their worship is in vain. It is very important to know who Yahweh is not just know about Him. Ignorance will not be a good defense when standing in front of the Judge.


DuWayne

[JulieTang84]

On this same subject being pursued here I wanted to inject something that should agree with Seth. My personal experience is to simply ask people to define who Yahweh is. If there are  radical differences in the Elohim they worship and my Elohim I make a mental note that they are worshiping a different or false Elohim and they don't have a clue. I have found that when I point out the huge differences between their definition and mine, it tends to anger them immensely. But my point is if they are worshiping a false Elohim then ALL of their worship is in vain. It is very important to know who Yahweh is not just know about Him. Ignorance will not be a good defense when standing in front of the Judge.


DuWayne

Great point. Which is why Father judges hearts. :HeartThrob:

Love Julie

[Seth]

Can a Blind man see that what he is trying to make, color or build be what the customer really wants. Likewise a deaf person, can they too compose a piece of music , or sing a song beautifully when they are unable to hear their own words, or anything?

Certainly not.

So with this taken into account: Are they seeking to destroy or are they simply trying to do the very best they can with the very little sight and hearing they have.

I think they want to do God's will. That's what Saul of Tarsus wanted to do...He just didn't know God's will was yet, and his carnal mind made him into something he later regretted. But he didn't repent without knowing exactly where he had stood, all his former works brought to nothing.

[rosered]

 

  For me the only difference in believers is     some are still carnal  and serving  their flesh or the flesh of Babylon [leaders] the Blind into the dicth as Jesus SPEAKS of

we are  to be led by the Holy Spirit   and serve and worship God in Spirit and truth

To me that is whay there is so much being patient and waiting on the Lord
  because to me our own flesh wars against the Spirit , trying to put your flesh/lusts of it  to death every day   is  a personal  battle of its self  , Paul was not  saying in vain/pride  or for nothing   , I die daily  , he knew what was happening to him .
  Jesus proves to be selfless and self sacraficing  on the needs of others , we by nature are not selfless  , thats what most battles are about SELF  getting in the way ,  its a form of pride or vanity /amounts to nothingness  empty  words and works .dead

look  how easy one   can   take offense    for example , But   when you take the wrong  God sees it ,  thats the praying in  secret   to be more like Jesus  , where as  when  put up a fight  over being right , your flesh is exposed , and your being naked , exposing sin , your theirs etc ,   just a stink  of death  in that battle .  it does  take the Spirit and Word of God to restore  one back to life again ,  Jesus is good at rasing the dead .

 

[Lazarus Short]

I read somewhere that music is like candy - it's best after you get rid of the rappers.  :laughing7:

Seriously, I find most church/Church and religious music to be boring, and I just hate it when someone gets up and sings with a (bad) canned sound track for accompaniment.  I'll take a Selah, thank you.  Maybe it's just that bad music played over bad equipment is a pet peeve of mine, or maybe I have unreasonable standards of musicianship - and note that I can hardly carry a tune in a bucket!

It does happen from time to time that real musical talent teams up with Christianity - the best example I've come across is the band Seawind.  Some of their songs transport me into a state of joy I can hardly describe.  Yeah, baldfaced plug, I know...

[rosered]

I read somewhere that music is like candy - it's best after you get rid of the rappers.  :laughing7:

Seriously, I find most church/Church and religious music to be boring, and I just hate it when someone gets up and sings with a (bad) canned sound track for accompaniment.  I'll take a Selah, thank you.  Maybe it's just that bad music played over bad equipment is a pet peeve of mine, or maybe I have unreasonable standards of musicianship - and note that I can hardly carry a tune in a bucket!

It does happen from time to time that real musical talent teams up with Christianity - the best example I've come across is the band Seawind.  Some of their songs transport me into a state of joy I can hardly describe.  Yeah, baldfaced plug, I know...

I   know what you mean Laz

   the  best songs  are the ones you sing in your heart TO GOD  directly of praise  and thankfulness to Him in the secret place of your heart   , knowing that ALL LIFE is from Him and He is worthy of that praise .  and everyone can sing  there  , its  heavenly music to His ears  :cloud9:

  considered the Psalms of David  noteworthy  a man after Gods own heart  :winkgrin:

[Seth]

One of my favorites is Keith Green. I stopped listening to all Christian music for a while, because I think I needed that. Now I can listen without fearing the old false Gospel that had me ensnared. One of my favorites of his is "I want to be more like Jesus"

[mplsfitter539]

I will listen to a little Crowder or Gungor but that is about it for me right now.

[Lazarus Short]

Anna, I never get tired of classical music either.  It has such a wide range of expression, of instrument, of forms, etc, and most of it is solidly rooted in western Christian culture.  In particular, I love the Italian Baroque.

[JulieTang84]

I discovered Hildegard von Bingen only a year or ago.

My Spirit sings and dances when ever it is played.

O Virdissima Virga ~ Hildegard von Bingen  (written an composed 900 yrs ago)

http://www.youtube.com/embed/T3CEHEWBRmk

It is simply beautiful and I cannot understand a single word, but I FEEL everything.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

I used to be a wild man. One time I woke up in a detox ward, and I didn't know how I got there. When I regained consciousness, I was hearing music that turned out to be in my head not coming from the hospital. I didn't recognize the tune. So I hummed it for a nurse, and she said it was Amazing Grace. She said it was an old hymn, but I wasn't familiar with it. The last time I was in a church it was a Catholic Church, and I never heard it there. When I got out of the hospital, I went to a library to look it up. I read the lyrics, and I was overwhelmed with emotion because it was my story. I was playing it on my blues harp while I was camped out in the woods, and I heard some music in the distance. I went to check it out, and there were a bunch of folks playing music praising the Lord. I started playing with them, and I wound up playing blues harp in their little church band in the mountains for awhile. They were very loving folks who were poor but looked out for each other. I imagined that's how the early believers were. I eventually headed back east looking for work, but it was a good experience sharing God's music with them.

[mplsfitter539]

I don't do youtube... so I wasn't able to listen.

But I vaguely remembered the name Hildegard von Bingen so I did a very quick search and learned that Hildegard von Bingen was canonized about a year ago by Pope Benedict XVI who also declared her to be a Doctor of the Church...  there are not many Doctors and only very few women who have been declared to be a Doctor... also noted that she was a Mystic and had visions ...

Sounds a bit scary, I would find out exactly what the lyrics mean before dwelling on this music. If she was singing the Psalms I would not be so skeptical but with her history she needs to be investigated. This is why I posted this thread is because to many blind sheep don't look into the things they watch on TV or listen to on the stereo. This is part of the job of discernment which we have all been assigned. Its up to us as individuals to do our own homework on these things. Don't expect your trusted pastor to tell you these things.

[jbertonbounds]

I used to be a wild man. One time I woke up in a detox ward, and I didn't know how I got there. When I regained consciousness, I was hearing music that turned out to be in my head not coming from the hospital. I didn't recognize the tune. So I hummed it for a nurse, and she said it was Amazing Grace. She said it was an old hymn, but I wasn't familiar with it. The last time I was in a church it was a Catholic Church, and I never heard it there. When I got out of the hospital, I went to a library to look it up. I read the lyrics, and I was overwhelmed with emotion because it was my story. I was playing it on my blues harp while I was camped out in the woods, and I heard some music in the distance. I went to check it out, and there were a bunch of folks playing music praising the Lord. I started playing with them, and I wound up playing blues harp in their little church band in the mountains for awhile. They were very loving folks who were poor but looked out for each other. I imagined that's how the early believers were. I eventually headed back east looking for work, but it was a good experience sharing God's music with them.

Awesome! :thumbsup:
Inspiring. :thumbsup:

[JulieTang84]

As commented on by MPISFiitter,


I looked for and found the lyrics to the Hildegard von Bingen song which I posted.


Oh I know that she was Catholic nun in the 10th century. I also know that she is now regarded as a Saint; however, i have read a lot of her writings and fully realize that Father used her for a very good purpose. This song is about Jesus and Mary, his mother but in implication only. I do not find anything bad about these lyrics and would love to hear anyones thoughts.


With that being said, my spirit (higher self) immediately recognized this song and began rejoicing. Could it be for the lyrics, the melody or the LOVE for Father in which both were written/composed? 


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





O viridissima virga (Hildegard von Bingen; )
   

O viridissima virga
que in ventoso flabro sciscitationis sanctorum prodisti.
Cum venit tempus
quod tu floruisti in ramis tuis; ave, ave sit tibi,
quia calor solis in te sudavit sicut odor balsami.
Nam in te floruit pulcher flos
qui odorem dedit omnibus aromatibus que arida erant.
Et illa apparuerunt omnia in viriditate plena.
Unde celi dederunt rorem super gramen
et omnis terra leta facta est,
quoniam viscera ipsius frumentum protulerunt, et quoniam volucres celi nidos in ipsa habuerunt.
Deinde facta est esca hominibus, et gaudium magnum epulantium; unde, o suavis virgo,
in te non deficit ullum gaudium.
Hec omnia Eva contempsit. Nunc autem laus sit Altissimo.
 
O greenest branch, hail,
who came forth in blowing wind from holy wise men.

English Version  (translated by Marianne Richert Pfau[/size])
[/size]When the time came
that you bloomed in your branches hail, hail to you,
the heat of the sun infused you with balsamic fragrance. The beautiful flourished in you gave its aromatic fragrance
to all that was withered. And thus all appeared in full greenness. The heaven spread dew over the grass
and the whole earth was made glad
because her womb brought forth fruit
and the birds of the skies had their nests in her. Thus was made the food for humanity
and great joy among the dinner companions. And therefore, of mild Virgin,
no joy is missing in you. All of this Eve had disdained.
But now praise be to the highest.