Who is satan?

[thinktank]

Here the devil has a kingdom. If the kingdom is merely physical through men, then why does God talk about his kingdom which we know as a spiritual kingdom competing against the kingdom of devil, which is contained in this man who was possessed.

Good point.  We tend to see only the material/carnal when we think of Satan, as if that were not something spiritual.  But, maybe it is.

Could you say more about this?


Matthew 4:9
And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

sorry I did reply, but I lost the text, when posting it :/

[Pierac]

Gen 3:1   Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

Note the Lord God made!

Gen 3:14  The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and  above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.

1Co 15:47  The first man was from the earth, a man of dust

1Pe 5:8   Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone   to devour.

Joh 8:44  You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks  out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Joh 8:45  But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.

1Jo 3:8  Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
Note that... Adam (or Flesh) was not sinning from the beginning!

Job 26:13  By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient744 serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

G744  ἀρχαῖος   archaios

Thayer Definition:
1) that has been from the beginning,  original


Rev 20:2  And he seized the dragon, that ancient 744 serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand  years,

Mar 4:15  And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them.

2Co 4:4  in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the  light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Isa 54:16  Behold, I have created the smith [Satan] that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an  instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.   

1Ti 1:20  among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to  blaspheme.

1Co 5:5  you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Eph 6:12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the  cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Really, You guys know the truth.


Paul

[Lefein]

Pierac...That is some awesome connections of scripture.

Yet again, the Bible shows its consistency, and divine authorship.

[micah7:9]

Ok how is this done?  Delivering this man to satan?  Have you done it? How did Paul do it? I know why but how is it done?    1Co 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

And I believe the better translation for Job 26:13  By His Spirit the heavens He beautified, Formed hath His hand the fleeing serpent.

Again I need ask when was this beginnning? There was no murder in Gen.1  In fact there was no Adam in the beginning.

1Jo 3:8  Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
Note that... Adam (or Flesh) was not sinning from the beginning!

Those are all mighty scriptures, I have read them but what do you say of them?

[WhiteWings]

Here the devil has a kingdom. If the kingdom is merely physical through men, then why does God talk about his kingdom which we know as a spiritual kingdom competing against the kingdom of devil, which is contained in this man who was possessed.

People can't dwell in both kingdoms at the same time. If you are in the satanic kingdom you are in a kingdom of lust and voilence. Every partaker of that kingdom isn''t part of the heavenly kingdom. So that's competition.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Of course he has a kingdom. All he can do is mimic; he has not the power to create anything. Blessings.....

[thinktank]

Mathew 8

Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 13

[WhiteWings]

I wonder if east and west in this verse has a deeper meaning.
The entrance to the Garden of Eden was east.
God sits in the Temple/Holy of Hollies and always faces east .
If we look at the Garden of Eden as His kingdom then those entering from the East are the 'new recruits'
But to approach Father from the west means you are behind Him and already in His Kingdom.

Just a random thought  :icon_joker:

[micah7:9]

Joh 8:44  `Ye are of a father--the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do;
he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood,
because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh,
because he is a liar--also his father.

A man-slayer from the beginning:
Gen. 1--- no killing done nor was there any lying being done.
Gen. 2--- no killing done nor was there any lying being done.
Gen. 3--- no killing done nor was there any lying being done** correction, the first lie was Gen.3:4. I aplogize               
Gen. 4---- vs. 7-- we have the first time sin is mentioned.
           ---- vs. 8-- we have man-slaying(murder.)
           -----vs. 9-- we have lying.
I suggest and believe that it is here that we have the beginning refered to in John 8:44
I have said this before, I  reason and understand, at least the first four chapters of Genesis is allegory.
I am learning as I hope we all are, but I seem to find even for those of us who have come out of Babylon,
there are explanations taught that leave me wanting.

Do I believe Cain is the adversary? Not on the surface. But I find that Cain "qayin" means 
the original sense of fixity; a lance (as striking fast) from "qûn" A primitive root; to strike a musical note,
that is, chant or wail (at a funeral): - lament, mourning woman.
Cain's actions are death, lies, and we see from 4:16 that what Cain represents will be around for a while [even though the name Cain dissapears
after Gen.4 until the NT]; but Abel from his first action of his offering, becomes the first sacrifce, according
to
Heb 11:4  by faith a better sacrifice did Abel offer to God than Cain, through which he was testified
to be righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and through it, he being dead, doth yet speak.

And Abel "hebel" means  emptiness or vanity; figuratively something transitory and unsatisfactory;
from "hâbal" A primitive root; to be vain in act, word, or expectation; specifically to lead astray:

I have said this before, I  reason and understand, at least the first four chapters of Genesis is allegory.
I am learning as I hope we all are, but I seem to find even for those of us who have come out of Babylon,
there are explanations taught that leave me wanting.

2 Tim. 3:16  Peace and Love Through Jesus

[thinktank]

Gen 3:1   Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

Note the Lord God made!

Gen 3:14  The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and  above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.


So before the serpent got cursed he did not have a diet of meat and 2 legs. He only eats dust, man, because he was cursed by God to do so.

So what did he eat before man?


Gen 3:1   Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

We all know him as the serpent, but does it mean he was originally evil or does it mean, that this being was naturally a slippery kind of person, someone who wondered what would it be like to do evil or to go against the command of the lord.

Also if the serpent is what the lord God made as a beast, then what of those other beasts? Are there other devils God made too?

Why does God create such a monstorus being? Why does God hate the devil so much, if he himself created him  :dontknow:

In Genesis God said

it repenteth me to make man.

How much more the devil ? :dontknow:

[Lefein]

Is Jesus above using phrases that are hyperbole?  Phrases that are essentially true, but not of literal detail.

[WhiteWings]

Gen 3:1   Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

Note the Lord God made!

Gen 3:14  The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and  above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.


So before the serpent got cursed he did not have a diet of meat and 2 legs. He only eats dust, man, because he was cursed by God to do so.

So what did he eat before man?

Serpent seems to have common root with wispherer/enchanter

[thinktank]

Joh 8:44  `Ye are of a father--the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do;
he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood,
because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh,
because he is a liar--also his father.

A man-slayer from the beginning:
Gen. 1--- no killing done nor was there any lying being done.
Gen. 2--- no killing done nor was there any lying being done.
Gen. 3--- no killing done nor was there any lying being done
                [excuses, but no lying]
Gen. 4---- vs. 7-- we have the first time sin is mentioned.
           ---- vs. 8-- we have man-slaying(murder.)
           -----vs. 9-- we have lying.
I suggest and believe that it is here that we have the beginning refered to in John 8:44


He is the father of lies, so the first lie recorded is
Genesis 3 from the serpent himself, the lie you mention is from human.

3Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, [1] hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

A important clue, Jesus said he is the father of lies, which means Satan invented lying. If God invented lying why is serpent the father of it?

[Pierac]

Again I need ask when was this beginnning? There was no murder in Gen.1  In fact there was no Adam in the beginning.

I could show you but would not believe, you must find the answer on your own. Before you can understand Satan, you must first find the source of evil and it's divine purpose!



Paul

[Lefein]

To hate is to murder.  I'm pretty sure Satan would have hated man, even from the very mentioning of them being made.  I could imagine it going like this:

"Hmmn, I have an idea...Let us make man in our image..."

Satan overhears the conversation:

"...What?!  How dare you!  Don't you even dare it!"

God makes man.

"...urrrgh...what a loathesome, filthy, illegitimate child of God..."

[micah7:9]

Yes, I did over look Gen 3:4  And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
There is a lie, prior to Gen 4:9  And Jehovah said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: am I my brother's keeper?
Thank you for that correction Thinktank.

"I could show you but would not believe, you must find the answer on your own. Before you can understand Satan, you must first find the source of evil and it's divine purpose!



Paul
Thanks for your secrect knowledge brother, I was unaware that the knowledge that the saints receive  is a game of suprioroity. Throwing this verse out of reading, 2Ti 3:16  Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.  Peace and Love Through Jesus

[micah7:9]

To hate is to murder.  I'm pretty sure Satan would have hated man, even from the very mentioning of them being made.  I could imagine it going like this:

"Hmmn, I have an idea...Let us make man in our image..."

Satan overhears the conversation:

"...What?!  How dare you!  Don't you even dare it!"

God makes man.

"...urrrgh...what a loathesome, filthy, illegitimate child of God..."

You my friend  have and imagination   "I could imagine it going like this:"

[thinktank]

To hate is to murder.  I'm pretty sure Satan would have hated man, even from the very mentioning of them being made.  I could imagine it going like this:

"Hmmn, I have an idea...Let us make man in our image..."

Satan overhears the conversation:

"...What?!  How dare you!  Don't you even dare it!"

God makes man.

"...urrrgh...what a loathesome, filthy, illegitimate child of God..."

I'm not sure if there is any truth to this. Lets say for example that satan was originally created good, for I don't see God creating an evil being in Genesis, saying let us make an evil serpent, who is full of sin and hatred towards me and all that is good and profanes my name. 'And the lord saw that the serpent he made was good', hmmm

Heres some thoughts
ok so the devil is originally good but wants to become as God (evil thoughts)and ascend to the throne of God. How can he do this?

He knows that God is creating a new type of creature, one that has simultude to the very son of God. This excites him, rather than infuriate him. He has a plan, if I can make these human beings worship me instead of God, they will be mine to control, and through these human beings I will have access to god like powers(creativity). Eventually through time he seduces Eve, to break the command of God, thus completing stage one of his master plan, which is to lead them away from God and more towards himself, he now needs to get Eve to seduce Adam, maybe he said things to her, or perhaps it was the fruit of evil, who knows :dontknow:. But now Adam falls, satan can now influence Adam for evil, eventually through time he unleashes the beast from the bottomless pit and gets people to worship a man and to worship himself, the dragon, he now has access to this man, without God interfering and can do great miracles coming down from heaven and even thinks he can fight and defeat Christ, with these new powers he has.
:2c:

[Molly]

Adam was not seduced, dagnabbit!


Carry on. :happygrin:

[Lefein]

Thinktank, my little illustration was assuming that Satan had fallen/rebelled/however you wish to put it, prior to Man's creation.

But I feel that I should now explain my illustration;

If Satan has been murdering since the beginning, being a man-slayer, then perhaps we should remember the words of Jesus our Lord; "To hate, is to murder".

Satan probably hated men from the beginning.  At the least it is a plausible interpretation of these verses together.

[Molly]

Thinktank, my little illustration was assuming that Satan had fallen/rebelled/however you wish to put it, prior to Man's creation.

When we meet Satan in the garden, he has already rebelled against God, and is now carrying out his plan.  So I agree--before Adam at least.

[micah7:9]

Thinktank, my little illustration was assuming that Satan had fallen/rebelled/however you wish to put it, prior to Man's creation.

When we meet Satan in the garden, he has already rebelled against God, and is now carrying out his plan.  So I agree--before Adam at least.

So, then you folks are assuming there was some kind of rebelling in Gen 1:2  the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,
Is that what I am to understand? That God created , made, formed a being that had the potential to undermine Him? And when this being, spirit saw the chance he took it? Ive read stuff like that in the Dake and from Shepard's Chapel, and other writings. This must mean that there is a chance this  being, spirit created by God, could do it again, the next time maybe he will will. If thats possible have I have put my faith in the wrong faith?

[Lefein]

I only said there was a rebellion.  I never said anything about the typical gap theory. :)

Rebellion against God is possible, The Adversary isn't incapable of it.

Deuteronomy 31:27

For I know thy rebellion and thy stiff neck: Behold while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death?

[micah7:9]

The whence this from the beginning he was a man-slayer and liar? Where was this beginning?
Deuteronomy 31:27  He's talking about Israel here is He not?

[thinktank]

Thinktank, my little illustration was assuming that Satan had fallen/rebelled/however you wish to put it, prior to Man's creation.

When we meet Satan in the garden, he has already rebelled against God, and is now carrying out his plan.  So I agree--before Adam at least.

So, then you folks are assuming there was some kind of rebelling in Gen 1:2  the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,
Is that what I am to understand? That God created , made, formed a being that had the potential to undermine Him? And when this being, spirit saw the chance he took it? Ive read stuff like that in the Dake and from Shepard's Chapel, and other writings. This must mean that there is a chance this  being, spirit created by God, could do it again, the next time maybe he will will. If thats possible have I have put my faith in the wrong faith?

I speak for myself, but I believe the rebellion took place in the garden of eden.

ezekiel
11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, [4] topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, [5] and never shalt thou be any more.

In Genesis God uses cherubums to guard the way of the tree of life, so we know that there are cherubims in the garden of God, and this one called the anointed cherub was perfect, until iniquity was found within him, by reason is his brightness.

So if this here be the devil, then he is not an angel, but rather an anointed cherub. If you think about it a wicked beautyfull women are seen as seductive snake, serpent like, and this anointed cherub is beautyfull and seduces Adam and Eve.