Sad story

[natcat86]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2009-04-08/news/shootfolo08_1_marie-moore-mitchell-moore-gun-range

It seems to me that this false doctrine of an eternal hell and eternally punishing God just picks on the vulnerable. Its caused so much pain! If she had known the truth it could have set her free perhaps.  :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

Did she sin?
She killed. (bad)
But she also layed down her own (heavenly) life for the benefit of her son. (good)

[martincisneros]

She just needed the devil cast out of her, and after that thing was cast out, then she needed to read Matthew and Luke's Gospel on how Jesus dealt with being told by a spirit to bungee jump off the pinnacle of the temple without the bungee cord while He was fasting 40 days.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2009-04-08/news/shootfolo08_1_marie-moore-mitchell-moore-gun-range

It seems to me that this false doctrine of an eternal hell and eternally punishing God just picks on the vulnerable. Its caused so much pain! If she had known the truth it could have set her free perhaps.  :sigh:

[friendofmankind]

So much for the 'good news'. 

The modern church has a lot to answer for.   They make Herod out to be the greatest 'saint' ever, saving all those children from hell...What a horrible, warped, demonic theology.

Were still in the dark ages. 

What gets me is how some people believe that God speaks to them...Especially when its something evil?  EH?

When God speaks to me I KNOW IT because a miracle happens, like lightning bolts or something 'impossible' like repeating a song with a message in it for me many times, or making someone forget they were an alcoholic one day so they could stop drinking....Something happens that cannot be denied....Yet some people BELIEVE their OWN hearts....Avoid that I say!

When God speaks, there is NO room for doubt, and he never does it the way you think he will...He always goes ONE better....This woman didn't know the real God...She believed the man-man 'god' the church invented.

She didn't murder her son in many ways....It was the modern church that did it.  Do they really think all those hell-fire preachings dont scare the crap out of some people and make them do crazy things while they fly about the world in their own jumbo jet.

Sick, evil, twisted pieces of CRAP.

The last will be first, may God have mercy on them.

[friendofmankind]

Im going to make a video about this subject soon and put it on utube (what that woman did), to let the world know what this DISGUSTING doctrine does to people.

[IceDash]

Im going to make a video about this subject soon and put it on utube (what that woman did), to let the world know what this DISGUSTING doctrine does to people.

That's won't work because people would aid "she act on her own choice, not God or the bible."

But I agree, this is truly sad. She should have wait and listen to her heart, not her reason or voices.

[friendofmankind]

Oh yeh, they will make any excuse, or they will blame it on the fact that she suffered from mental illness. 
But what caused the mental illness?  She said the devil and God made her into the worst person in the world...So its pretty clear it all boils down to that stupid hell belief.

I put a vid on my channel anyway, who knows maybe a miracle will happen and some people might get it into their dense skulls the evil this kind of doctrine encourages.

http://www.youtube.com/user/FRIENDOFMANKIND

[Molly]

There was no internal logic to any of her mental ramblings and conclusions.  Sadly, she was just mentally ill --it had nothing to do with religion.  It could just as easily have been black helicoptors and little green men.

What caused the mental illness?  The usual explanation is chemicals run amuck or missing circuits.  What caused that to happen?  Nothing any human said to her.

[WhiteWings]

Nothing any human said to her.

If that is sarcarsm I agree. If not, guess, I agree not :sigh:

[Shadow]

There was no internal logic to any of her mental ramblings and conclusions.  Sadly, she was just mentally ill --it had nothing to do with religion.  It could just as easily have been black helicoptors and little green men.

What caused the mental illness?  The usual explanation is chemicals run amuck or missing circuits.  What caused that to happen?  Nothing any human said to her.

I couldn't disagree more

Religion can have a very negative affect on some people, remember Andrea Yates drowning her children in the bathtub so that she could send them to heaven before the age of accountability

Those who are concerned about the welfare of others don't find it so easy to accept that most of the world is destined by default to ET, like meanstream christendom preaches

And BTW it is humans that put the idea of ET in her head, some of them almost seem to be on the verge of an orgasm at the thought that there are people they believe will be tortured, all except themselves of course

[sparrow]

The doctrine of eternal torment ABSOLUTELY torments the human mind!!

It is the sickest, most vile, most disgusting vain imagination of mankind that absolutely, completely and wholly crucifies the character of our beautiful Creator.


This woman was absolutely, OBVIOUSLY very tortured in her mind. Yes, she probably had mental issues to begin with, but to say that religion was not partly to blame is so very wrong.

The sick, twisted evil doctrine of eternal torment can cause a person to just go numb, put a wall around their heart and stick the doctrine back behind the wall and not FEEL or actually THINK ABOUT what it is that they actually believe about God. This is why so many don't break free from it. Because they don't search out the matter. They stick it way up on a back shelf in the back of their minds. Sure they yell and scream about it all the time, but these are the types that haven't actually THOUGHT it through. The wall they've built up against it so they don't have to actually FEEL it, MUST be torn down before truth's light can begin to break through. I have absolute sympathy for these types of folks as well. FEAR has them. FEAR has them pinned down. They know not what they do. They also are have their minds chained... shackled. Have compassion. Father will bring ALL to the truth.

And then you have those who are tortured and tortured by it and for whatever reason... just can't see the truth... can't reach the light. Can't get past these lies. Combine that with any sort of mental issues... and it can be very dangerous.


I have absolute sympathy for this poor woman.

Eternal torment ABSOLUTELY torments.
It is the EPITOME of non-love.

GOD IS LOVE.
Eternal torment. My GOD! My GOD!!!!!!!
The thought NEVER entered HIS mind!


BREAK FREE.
TRUST in the goodness of God.

[sparrow]

I liked your video friendofmankind.  :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

Well, it's a very sad story alright.  I come down somewhere in the middle on this.  Without having directly assessed her, I would think she certainly had mental illness, some sort of psychosis (most likely schizophrenia).  So as Molly suggested, her delusions could include a myriad of different things.

However, I would also think, as is often the case with the mentally ill, that she was extremely vulnerable to not only attach to the most morbid aspects of religion, but to also even distort "pure things" - twisting them out of proportion as to how they were actually presented to her.

For a truly mentally ill person, hearing about Jesus can become "I am Jesus, I can walk on water".  Hearing about the devil can become "I get special messages from the devil.  I'm destined to do what he tells me."  So take the doctrine of ET in all its "glory", and that person's illness can turn it into exactly what this woman did.  It can be hard enough for the sane to digest, let alone those of us that are even more damaged and vulnerable.  My  :2c:.

[jabcat]

P.S.  Thinking she sent herself to an eternal hell, she's going to get a very nice surprise isn't she?  When she meets a loving Father that brings her exactly where she needs to be - corrected and healed in His presence.   :HeartThrob:

[sparrow]

 It can be hard enough for the sane to digest, let alone those of us that are even more damaged and vulnerable.  My  :2c:.

yes. :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

This woman was absolutely, OBVIOUSLY very tortured in her mind.

Tormented day and night...?

Yes, she probably had mental issues to begin with

If you had written possibly instead of probably I could have agreed with you.
Some people break under stress. That's also partly because many can't handle the responisbilty of leadership. Are they all mentally ill? If the answer is yes that also means Jesus was mentally ill. He sweated blood. (a commonly accepted possibilty by medical science)

Yep. Putting people under extreme stress can cause mental problems. It does for very many people. Starting with small things unable like unable to sleep.

But claiming her mind snapped because she already had mental problems is nothing more than a possibilty.

[WhiteWings]

She didn't kill for her own benefit but for that of her own son.

Isn't that in some way on a small scale what Jesus did?
She saved her son by giving up her own life.


She was conviced her son would burn in hell if she didn't help.
Then 2 Biblical quotes come to mind.

If she didn't care (called mentally sane): her love for her son has grown cold.
If she does care (called mental issues): she layed down her own life because of love.

What the most Biblical thing to do?

[jabcat]

I do hear what you're saying WW, and I also may have sounded more definite than you prefer.  You're presenting another possible side of it.  I guess we really don't know, and I intended to indicate that in my post.  Just in my estimation, I would think her history of hospitalizations (and signs in the article about her behavior, etc.) indicate that at SOME point she would have most likely been diagnosed as mentally ill.  Well anyway, enough of that for me.  Sad story, but I believe once she's "all fixed" that she's in for a blessed awakening.   :thumbsup:

I'm gettin' ready for bed..was at work til 4 am...you and sparrow who are on her with me right now, have a great day!

[WhiteWings]

I would think her history of hospitalizations (and signs in the article about her behavior, etc.) indicate that at SOME point she would have most likely been diagnosed as mentally ill

Being hurt is some sort of illness. So yes she certainly was ill.
Personally I don't place high value in such diagnosis. (I've seen enough wrong examples of it)
Anyway I think it's safe to say she mentioned hell during diagnosis.
Religion is seen as insanity by many, so that on itself puts her closer to the insanity box.
The main question is was she born that way?
Imagine 3 childeren that are born with the same sanity. Bedtime stories are told.
Child A: Atheist parent. Bedtime stories are about flying elephant and dancing monkeys.
Child B: UR parents. Bedtime stories about Jesus hugging you when you bumped your knee.
Child C: ET parents. Bedtime stories about fire, brimstone, demons and other Calvinistic delights.

I can't distinguish between A and B but imo child c has by far the highest chance of breaking like the woman in the article. Or as some internal defense feelings get blunt and basicly nobody is of any value.

[Molly]

Well, it's a very sad story alright.  I come down somewhere in the middle on this.  Without having directly assessed her, I would think she certainly had mental illness, some sort of psychosis (most likely schizophrenia).  So as Molly suggested, her delusions could include a myriad of different things.

That would be my guess, too, paranoid schizophrenia.  She was having auditory hallucinations, and had a 'long struggle' with mental illness and suicide attempts, including hospitalization..  She was hearing voices, including the one that told her to kill her son.



In these documents, Marie Moore described long struggles over whether to kill herself, stays at mental hospitals and attempts to make sense of the messages she said she received from God.

During a 2003 suicide attempt, her son stopped her from killing herself, she said in one recording. She thought God punished her for her failure by making her the "antichrist," and that she must die to save the world from violence.

"You have a gun, you can do it," she said God told her.

Andrea Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity--something that juries almost never do in this country, 

That's not to say that sane people couldn't have doctrinal struggles, but this woman was told to kill her son by a voice she identified as God.  That's mental illness.

The one I feel saddest for is her son who so clearly loved her and tried to help her.

[Molly]

Child A: Atheist parent. Bedtime stories are about flying elephant and dancing monkeys.

Stories of dancing monkeys would have scared me to death as a child.

The main question is was she born that way?

These symptoms usually appear in late adolescence [auditory and visual hallucinations] but, it is a structural problem with the brain, and also has a mild genetic component,  so I would say, yes--born that way.

Religion is seen as insanity by many, so that on itself puts her closer to the insanity box.

Easy there, ww.   :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

Child A: Atheist parent. Bedtime stories are about flying elephant and dancing monkeys.

Stories of dancing monkeys would have scared me to death as a child.

Structual brain problem  :pointlaugh:

[Molly]

Child A: Atheist parent. Bedtime stories are about flying elephant and dancing monkeys.

Stories of dancing monkeys would have scared me to death as a child.

Structual brain problem  :pointlaugh:

I think children are much more in touch with reality than adults give them credit for--

I read Alice in Wonderland as a child and it scared me half to death--that stupid cat that kept disappearing except for the head.  :mshock: I always looked at my cat suspiciously after that.

Children shouldn't be frightened--and that includes by walt disney productions.

But there's nothing frightening about Jesus to children.  He is their Champion.


13And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.

14But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

--Mark 10





 

[friendofmankind]

There was no internal logic to any of her mental ramblings and conclusions.  Sadly, she was just mentally ill --it had nothing to do with religion.  It could just as easily have been black helicoptors and little green men.

What caused the mental illness?  The usual explanation is chemicals run amuck or missing circuits.  What caused that to happen?  Nothing any human said to her.

I couldn't disagree more

Religion can have a very negative affect on some people, remember Andrea Yates drowning her children in the bathtub so that she could send them to heaven before the age of accountability

Those who are concerned about the welfare of others don't find it so easy to accept that most of the world is destined by default to ET, like meanstream christendom preaches

And BTW it is humans that put the idea of ET in her head, some of them almost seem to be on the verge of an orgasm at the thought that there are people they believe will be tortured, all except themselves of course

I agree with this, im going to leave the video on utube, i really do believe that false teaching brought this woman to a mental wreck.

[friendofmankind]

The doctrine of eternal torment ABSOLUTELY torments the human mind!!

It is the sickest, most vile, most disgusting vain imagination of mankind that absolutely, completely and wholly crucifies the character of our beautiful Creator.


This woman was absolutely, OBVIOUSLY very tortured in her mind. Yes, she probably had mental issues to begin with, but to say that religion was not partly to blame is so very wrong.

The sick, twisted evil doctrine of eternal torment can cause a person to just go numb, put a wall around their heart and stick the doctrine back behind the wall and not FEEL or actually THINK ABOUT what it is that they actually believe about God. This is why so many don't break free from it. Because they don't search out the matter. They stick it way up on a back shelf in the back of their minds. Sure they yell and scream about it all the time, but these are the types that haven't actually THOUGHT it through. The wall they've built up against it so they don't have to actually FEEL it, MUST be torn down before truth's light can begin to break through. I have absolute sympathy for these types of folks as well. FEAR has them. FEAR has them pinned down. They know not what they do. They also are have their minds chained... shackled. Have compassion. Father will bring ALL to the truth.

And then you have those who are tortured and tortured by it and for whatever reason... just can't see the truth... can't reach the light. Can't get past these lies. Combine that with any sort of mental issues... and it can be very dangerous.


I have absolute sympathy for this poor woman.

Eternal torment ABSOLUTELY torments.
It is the EPITOME of non-love.

GOD IS LOVE.
Eternal torment. My GOD! My GOD!!!!!!!
The thought NEVER entered HIS mind!


BREAK FREE.
TRUST in the goodness of God.

TOtally agree sparrow, i have seen people so frustrated with 'what is the truth, is hell read;?  That they are at the stage of bashing their head off a wall just to end the torment.