Evangel...dichotomy?

[ian]

Hoping this is an appropriate place for this. Helped me out recently, lots of references/info in one spot.

*edited because of partial attachment*

http://www.weltmanager.de/worldmanager/TheTwoEvangels.html

[jabcat]

Glad it helped you.  Some see it that way whole-heartedly, some very little, and some in between I guess.  Anyway, you'll get discussion from it. 

[eaglesway]

I see it as one gospel, applied to two distinct groups. Two aspects of one gospel bringing all into one new man. Paul and Peter were definitely the two primary messengers, Peter to the circumscision applying the one gospel and Paul to the uncircumscision applying the one gospel.

I think we also must remember there were others as wel, the 11, all went out with the gospel of the kingdom, and I am sure it was applied through them bu the Spirit in unique ways, bringing all into the one olive tree.

[Tom]

"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Check out the attachment.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[rosered]

I see it as one gospel, applied to two distinct groups. Two aspects of one gospel bringing all into one new man. Paul and Peter were definitely the two primary messengers, Peter to the circumscision applying the one gospel and Paul to the uncircumscision applying the one gospel.

I think we also must remember there were others as wel, the 11, all went out with the gospel of the kingdom, and I am sure it was applied through them bu the Spirit in unique ways, bringing all into the one olive tree.

   :thumbsup:   For me ,    Gathering into Christ  one new Man         being the messenger    Son of Man  and also Son Of God  [Hear   MY SON ,  Hear  what the Spirit is saying ]     the Body of believers     

heb6

  19This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, 20where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
s
Psalm 110:4
The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."

John 14:2
My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 3:1
Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest.

Hebrews 4:14
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.

Hebrews 5:6
And he says in another place, "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."

Hebrews 7:8
In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.

Hebrews 7:17
For it is declared: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."

1 Peter 3:22
who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.


both  Peter and Paul    have the  HOLY SPIRIT witness   in them ..declaring the message of truth/  seed of Christ    "out of their mouths "  as do many many called    and some chosen to do so by GOD  HIMSELF .
    we are to grow in truth and grace, Given by the increase of God     there is no DIVISION IN   JESUS CHRIST

The world... yes........

[Tom]

"I am marveling that thus, swiftly, you are transferred from that which calls you in the grace of Christ, to a different evangel, which is not another, except it be that some who are disturbing you want also to distort the evangel of Christ. But if ever we also, or a messenger out of heaven, should be bringing an evangel to you beside that which we bring to you, let him be anathema!" (Galatians 1:6-8)

Check out the attachment.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Tom]

See the attachment to read some more information about the gospels differentiated.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Tom]

See the attachment to read some information about the Circumcision Evangel.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Seth]

Personally, when I compare James 2 against Romans 2, I see no difference in core teaching. I think there is a misunderstanding in Christanity of the role that Grace has in our salvation from sin, which causes confusion about Law and Grace.

For another perspective:

http://www.mercifultruth.com/links-savedbygrace.html

[rosered]

one new man in Christ    from BOTH

NO DIVISIONS One in Christ

EPH 2



...14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,


15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity....

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 2:14
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

Ephesians 2:16
and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

Colossians 1:21
Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

Colossians 2:14
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

Colossians 2:20
Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:

Colossians 3:10
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

[Seth]

one new man in Christ    from BOTH

NO DIVISIONS One in Christ

EPH 2



...14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,


15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity....

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 2:14
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

Ephesians 2:16
and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

Colossians 1:21
Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

Colossians 2:14
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

Colossians 2:20
Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:

Colossians 3:10
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

:dsunny:

[Tom]

See the attachments for information about the uncircumcision evangel.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Tom]

Here's a link to some relevant information especially for those who can't access the PDF files.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/index.html

[Tom]

"But if ever we also, or a messenger out of heaven, should be bringing an evangel to you beside that which we bring to you, let him be anathema!" (Galatians 1:8)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Tom]

See the attachments for Paul To The Galatians.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[ian]

Hmm... perhaps the word choice isn't ideal. Or perhaps a definition of gospel is required. That said-by my reckoning-Jesus and his apostles described a very different existence that was unique to the people of Israel, on earth, not a new or different Good News. It does seem to me however, either side of that debate is equal in substance (or am I confused?). Maybe a new designation is in order? And by my estimation there are in fact 3 experiences: Firstfruit, Israel, nations.
Thoughts in any direction?

I appreciate all the material btw, I'm a slow reader, so that should last me a while, lol

[ian]

Oops! by 'apostles' I mean the 12, and not Paul :laughing7:

[Seth]

Hmm... perhaps the word choice isn't ideal. Or perhaps a definition of gospel is required. That said-by my reckoning-Jesus and his apostles described a very different existence that was unique to the people of Israel, on earth, not a new or different Good News. It does seem to me however, either side of that debate is equal in substance (or am I confused?). Maybe a new designation is in order? And by my estimation there are in fact 3 experiences: Firstfruit, Israel, nations.
Thoughts in any direction?

I appreciate all the material btw, I'm a slow reader, so that should last me a while, lol

Paul and the 12 apostles presented identical gospels in my opinion, tailored to the listening audience. It was promised first to Israel by Jesus. They rejected it save for a remnant of Israel, and then it was eventually given to the Gentiles after the promise of Pentecost was fulfilled so that the promise could continue to be received by anyone who called upon the name of the Lord.

[jabcat]

general comment that may be useful in some way to someone in the thread;

I'm not always sure what it means exactly for each situation, but I personally think it's something important to keep in the back of our mind.  Jesus' earthly ministry was primarily (some say exclusively) to the Jews, in the age of Law, before the destruction of the temple and the end of temple worship, and (obviously) before the cross.   Just may be worth noting.

[Seth]

That's true. The gospel was preached to them first. Then the Gentiles. Everything Paul said to Gentiles, I believe, lines up with what Jesus said to Israel. The importance of faith, obedience, the wrath of God, the destructiveness of sin and the path to salvation.

[ian]

I just realized that only half of that got uploaded as an attachment. Lets try this again! This is what I originally intended to publish:

http://www.weltmanager.de/worldmanager/TheTwoEvangels.html

[Shev]

It is worth remembering that it was Peter that first preached to the Gentiles, to Cornelius. Does this mean he switched gospels for the day? On the contrary, he testified of the Gentiles that they received the Holy Spirit "just as we (the circumcision) have".

Paul also preached many times to the Jews, including the last chapter of Acts. Does this mean he kept changing gospel for the day? On the contrary, he testified that he was going to the Gentiles with "this salvation of God" which the Jews had rejected, and that the Gentiles would hear that which the Jews would not. Same gospel, different response.

[micah7:9]

It is worth remembering that it was Peter that first preached to the Gentiles, to Cornelius. Does this mean he switched gospels for the day? On the contrary, he testified of the Gentiles that they received the Holy Spirit "just as we (the circumcision) have".

Paul also preached many times to the Jews, including the last chapter of Acts. Does this mean he kept changing gospel for the day? On the contrary, he testified that he was going to the Gentiles with "this salvation of God" which the Jews had rejected, and that the Gentiles would hear that which the Jews would not. Same gospel, different response.

:thumbsup:

[Seth]

 :iagree: ---->  :thumbsup:

[Patinak]

Ian,

Thanks for upgrading the link to the chart.  It's a lot more fun now.