will there be room for all us saved ones?

[ded2daworld]

Didn't mean to put you on the spot friend.

The only thing I'm sure of in the past is what is written in the Bible. The only thing I'm sure of in the now, is my perception of what is happening now. The only thing I'm sure of in the future is that this mortal will put on immortality and we shall be like Christ. The other stuff in the future I'm not sure of because some is allegorical, some poetic, some imagery, and some interpretive prophecy. :Peace2:

[Lazarus Short]

No problem, as I like to share my vision of what is in store for us, and I think my words do not do it justice...

[ded2daworld]

It gets back to a finite words and meanings trying to describe the infinite. John was an eye witness and all he could do was say "it was like" "it was like" "it was like" for their were no words... indescribable.

[Lazarus Short]

Yes, even Jesus would say, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like..."

[ded2daworld]

 BTW LAZ,
Just got back from store picking up your ingredients for the bean dip. Will let you know :dontknow:

[Dave Corum]

In numerous Scriptures God has promised a NEW earth not a renewed, reupholstered old earth. In fact, as some here have already mentioned, by converting cubits, (1.5 ft) the NEW jerusalem in Rev., you would see that the old earth couldn't support the New Jerusalem.

Isaiah 66:22-23

King James Version (KJV)


22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
I could cite more... :eek:

[Lazarus Short]

Dave, a renewed, reupholstered old earth, or a new-from-the-ground-up earth, I'd be happy with either, but yes, new-from-the-ground-up sounds like the way God does things.

[VineBranch]

VB, I was meaning that we may just forget what a parka is, like the fellow who gave up the sea, and carried an oar inland until people asked him what it was.  He stayed there, knowing he was now far enough from the sea.

Nice ... what's a gym?

[Lazarus Short]

A gym - that's a place you drive your car to, and where you park as close as possible, for the purpose of exercising.

[Dave Corum]

A gym - that's a place you drive your car to, and where you park as close as possible, for the purpose of exercising.

I didn't see that coming - HOW TRUE, and then PAY for the execise to boot :LH:

[VineBranch]

I remember looking up the word gym when I was in high school; the dictionary I used said it came from the greek word naked, and a gymnasium was a place to exercise naked (I'm guessing they meant nude).  Now that I've seen what age has done to my body, I'm trying as hard as I can to expunge that definition from English.  This is one time I'm advocating not going back to the original for the proper meaning!!!  :laughing7:

[ded2daworld]

yeah. the greeks loved working out and training and competing naked(nude)
The first Olympics were held entirely in the nude but women were not allowed to participate or even be spectators. :Peace2: :2c:

[scarletwren]

Well, I personally imagine the earth pretty much the same, with smaller oceans perhaps. I can't imagine not getting to explore the deep sea since I never have had a chance to do it in this lifetime.  Swim with the dolphins, whales, and even sharks, play with the octopi and starfish et al .  Water skiing, with non pollution boats, lol.  Imagine just making the Sahara and all the deserts lush and green and all the inhospitable, uninhabitable areas/islands of the world, the mountains. I think that would make enough land for everyone to live even not considering the capability of perhaps visiting all the planets known and unknown.  Why would God have created all this and them if we were not going to enjoy them fully in the future?  That's my personal fantasy, lol.

[Lazarus Short]

Well, I personally imagine the earth pretty much the same, with smaller oceans perhaps. I can't imagine not getting to explore the deep sea since I never have had a chance to do it in this lifetime.  Swim with the dolphins, whales, and even sharks, play with the octopi and starfish et al .  Water skiing, with non pollution boats, lol.  Imagine just making the Sahara and all the deserts lush and green and all the inhospitable, uninhabitable areas/islands of the world, the mountains. I think that would make enough land for everyone to live even not considering the capability of perhaps visiting all the planets known and unknown.  Why would God have created all this and them if we were not going to enjoy them fully in the future?  That's my personal fantasy, lol.

Maybe not such a fantasy...it may just be our future.  Remember, our inheritance as co-heirs with
Christ is a share of the entire created cosmos of some 100 billion galaxies, each with billions of stars, etc...

[Eduard]

I also used to wonder that. With man, it may not be possible, but with God all things are possible. :HeartThrob:

[musicman]

cool bit of info!

http://innertech.com/blog/2008/01/end-time-population-signals-the-end-of-the-age/

[Deena]

This man tells us not to look through the "dark glasses" of Paul and appears to discredit him. I am not buying that. I am refering to music man's link.

[WhiteWings]

I've had this question running through my head today.  IF all will be saved, including all of our ansestors etc..  how will there be room for all of us on earth when heaven is here on earth ???  There will be trillions of us?  will the earth grow in size?  am I wrong thinking that gods will is for heaven to be on earth.  Am I missing something?  thanks!

what are your thoughts??

Adam. :banana:

Simple.
Bunk beds  :Chinscratch:


http://www.gciweb.org/documents/Misc%20Studies/Teenagers/New%20Jerusalem%20_An%20Engineering%20Feasibility%20Study%20-%20Mike%20Daily.pdf

[JulieTang84]

Oh my goodness Bunk Beds, of course  :Peace2:


But I have another take on all of this that is somewhat difficult to prove Scripturally yet Father has given more course to consider it.


First off, we only know what Father has given us to know, which in His terms is very little. Secondly, just about every person born into this world has a deep longing a desire for something that cannot be found in this world.


I am speaking of reincarnation (which might be taboo on this board.) However, let us consider this for just a moment. What if there are X number of Spirits and Heaven knows we all have one and I am working daily to connect with mine. Suppose that at the end of the current age, it is the spirit that gives account, having lived Perhpas many multiples of lives.


This of course would mean Millions if not Billions of less "people"


It might also explain why there is no marriage.


Just a thought (there is a Scripture in Job that hints of Father sending people back to Earth many times)


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

I understand your "billions less".
But right now the earth is full with people that are alive right now.
Take cities like NY. People living as sardines in a tin can. If all people in the US mega-cities got decent homes with a nice garden the USA may be to small....
It also means God has to manage lack of resources. Space in this example. I think there won't be anything besides evil that's not available in vast quantities.

[JulieTang84]

I understand your "billions less".
But right now the earth is full with people that are alive right now.
Take cities like NY. People living as sardines in a tin can. If all people in the US mega-cities got decent homes with a nice garden the USA may be to small....
It also means God has to manage lack of resources. Space in this example. I think there won't be anything besides evil that's not available in vast quantities.

Not hard to figure the need for a New Earth  :dsunny:


I was just throwing out a thought or two  :HeartThrob:


Rev 21 Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth,"[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them.They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 'He will wipe every tear from their eyes.There will be no more death'[b] or mourning or crying or pain,for the old order of things has passed away."
5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
It's going to be spectacular!!!!
Love Julie

[Lazarus Short]

Julie:

If reincarnation (aka reincarceration) were true, then Jesus would have had a much different line to say to Nicodemus.  Elsewhere, Jesus said that if something was not so, He would have said so - so I see His conversation with Nicodemus in the same light.

[KingKenny]

Oh my goodness Bunk Beds, of course  :Peace2:


But I have another take on all of this that is somewhat difficult to prove Scripturally yet Father has given more course to consider it.


First off, we only know what Father has given us to know, which in His terms is very little. Secondly, just about every person born into this world has a deep longing a desire for something that cannot be found in this world.

I am speaking of reincarnation (which might be taboo on this board.) However, let us consider this for just a moment. What if there are X number of Spirits and Heaven knows we all have one and I am working daily to connect with mine. Suppose that at the end of the current age, it is the spirit that gives account, having lived Perhpas many multiples of lives.

All that does is devalue the life you have now, your identity. Your spirit is then being held accountable for things which your current self does not even know about, nor can access unless you have this special power aka psychics. I am one person, not part of many. I look at my friends and wonder, 'are they really them?' When they die, that's it. They just become absorbed into a higher spirit (Higher Self in the New Age Movement). That's not a way of life I wish upon anyone. I dream of living in a peaceful world which God has restored, where one day, I can look upon a valley or a horizon, in a world with no death and decay, with family and friends at my side and God's glory shining throughout. If reincarnation were true, then who am I? Who will I be with? What is the point of living this life? The only spirit we should be working to connect with is God's Holy Spirit. Anything else is a deception and focuses purely on SELF and not God. The works I do are a manifestation of God working inside me, and I do for Him, not a Spirit which will later be held accountable.
If God sends someone back to Earth many times, imagine my horror when I was told by many psychics that my mother will be absorbed into a Higher Spirit, that she was many people before, and I am the same. I won't be KingKenny in the afterlife, but a Higher Self with lots of personalities. I couldn't reignite my relationship with my mother, because I am just a massive Spirit. No identity, no idea who anyone is, just accept that they'll be reincarnated into someone else.

God can bring forth a New Earth, and there is an entire universe out there which we go out and inhabit. Plenty of room for everyone.

[JulieTang84]

Julie:

If reincarnation (aka reincarceration) were true, then Jesus would have had a much different line to say to Nicodemus.  Elsewhere, Jesus said that if something was not so, He would have said so - so I see His conversation with Nicodemus in the same light.

Hi Laz, without a doubt a deep subject but certainly one spoken about in Scripture. By know means am I telling, I am just showing what certainly appears to hint towards reincarnation.  :girlheart:


The episode in the Bible where Jesus identified John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah the prophet is one of the clearest statements which Jesus made concerning reincarnation.

"For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come." (Matthew 11:13-14)

In the above passage, Jesus clearly identifies John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah the prophet. Later in Matthew's gospel Jesus reiterates it.

"And the disciples asked him, saying, 'Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?' "But he answered them and said, 'Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.' "Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)

Concerning other Bible verses that refer to reincarnation, the following passage is a clear statement:

"All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on Earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country - a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them." (Hebrews 11:13-16)

The above passage describes people who had an opportunity to return to Earth after death. This could only come about through reincarnation. Continuing on:

"Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection." (Hebrews 11:32-35)

In the Book of Amos, an excellent reference to reincarnation can be found. It describes God taking the dead to heaven then bringing them back to Earth.

"Though they dig down to the depths of the grave, from there my hand will take them. Though they climb up to the heavens, from there I will bring them down." (Amos 9:2)

In the Book of Job, Job wonders if he will live again after death:

"If a person dies will he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait for my renewal to come." (Job 14:14)

Job asks if there is life after death. He answers his own question by stating that he will live again when he is renewed. According to the Hebrew dictionary, the word translated "renewal" is chaliyphah {khal-ee-faw'}. Its meaning is: (1) a change, change of garments, replacement (2) changing, varying course of life (3) relays (4) relief from death. In my opinion, this definition fits the concept of reincarnation than it does resurrection.

In the Book of Psalm, David rejoices that he will be rescued after death:

"Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will rest secure, because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand." (Psalm 16:9-11)

Much more here: [size=78%]http://http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html[/size]


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[JulieTang84]

KingKenny, all valid points.  :HeartThrob:


(Job. 1:21) - "And he said, 'Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I shall return there. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord,'" (NASB)

• (Eccl. 5:15) - "As he had come naked from his mother's womb, so will he return as he came.  He will take nothing from the fruit of his labor that he can carry in his hand."
  There are many such oblique references.
  I really don't think that this topic will ever gain much traction as each of us can only know what we have been given. Have I lived passed lives, heck I can't remember, but that is not a sound basis to claim that: I have not. :girlheart:
  Love Julie